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Anonymous Person Posts $500,000 Bond To Free Texas Teen
- Evgeny 13y agoI know money does not buy happiness, but sometimes I wish I had "unlimited money" to be able to do thing like that.
- readme 13y agoAcquiring unlimited money is definitely more likely than an informed citizenry ever developing in the US, so I wish you the best in that pursuit!
- mathgladiator 13y agoInformed citizenry... that's oh, now I'm sad...
- readme 13y agoThere needs to be a way of controlling activist judges. Why the court is even able to decide what amount the bail is, is beyond me. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the part about being thrown in jail for what is tantamount to thought crime. That's a whole 'nother issue. ---------- EDIT: I'm not sure why my comment has been downvoted? Incase you were confused, I was referring to this here: "In April, a grand jury in Comal County, Texas, indicted Carter on a charge of making a terroristic threat, and a judge set bail at $500,000." See, even though the Jury found him guilty, the Judge set the bail enormously high. This kid did NOTHING. He exercised his first ammendment rights, and got a 500k bail for it. The real problem here was the Judge, who gets to set the bail after the fact. I wonder what the jury would have concluded if they had been allowed to decide the bail?
- mindslight 13y agoAFAIK, in the less-civilized states it's not expected that most people will pay the entire bail amount directly. The standard course is that they put up 10% or so (and the judge sets the total amount expecting this) and call a privatized "bail bondsman" to put up the rest (and charge a hefty fee). You see, it's more fair this way, because you have a choice of which entity will screw you sans trial.
- param 13y agoThe 10% is the non-refundable fee. So for a 500k bail, you are out 50k, not something that everyone can do.
- greedo 13y agoI've never understood the logic behind that. As long as you don't violate your bail provisions, why wouldn't all of your bail be refundable?
- mindslight 13y agoBecause unless you have $500k sitting around, your choices are to sit in jail until people-who-go-home-every-day decide it's time to have a trial, plea, or contract with a private company to loan you the $450k and pay their massive fee. Once you realize how this end of the system works, it's quite hard to tell yourself that the words "innocent until proven guilty" mean anything.
- tmzt 13y agoIn most of the states where a person will pay a surety bail agent that 10%, the amount (10%) is required by law and not set by the bail company. The term "hefty fee" implies this is arbitrary or similar to a loan shark.
- Steko 13y ago"found him guilty" You may have just misspoke but to clarify grand juries do not determine guilt but are used to determine if charges can be brought in the first place.
- DrStalker 13y agoHe was placed in jail for 6 months, so no matter what the technicalities are that seems a lot like a de-facto guilty verdict.
- Vivtek 13y agoIn reference to your edit - the phrase "activist judge" is a bit of a dogwhistle for conservatism; it's easy to click to downvote before really digesting what you said. That said, an independent judiciary is an important part of the separation of powers on which American government is based. While I personally find this entire thing reprehensible from soup to nuts, the judge's power to set arbitrary bail really is the way the system is supposed to work (the kid getting beat up in prison is not the way the system is supposed to work - except that plenty of Americans need a lot more civics education and actually do like to think of people getting raped in prison as extrajudiciary punishment for the suspicious). Also, an indictment is not a ruling of guilt. A grand jury is convened to decide whether there's a case at all. I personally think this grand jury should have their citizenship revoked until they've passed a battery of examinations in what America stands for, but sadly, that's again not the way the system works.
- mistermann 13y ago> battery of examinations in what America stands for I think we should have a refresher on what America does stand for, because I think it has changed quite fundamentally in the last <x> years, regardless of what your political angle is on the subject.
- krichman 13y ago"I pledge allegiance to the wealthy of the United States of America, and to their police force that beats and lies, one Nation under God, unaccountable, with liberty and air travel for few."
- jackpirate 13y agoSo basically what it always stood for then
- mistermann 13y agoThat's not true at all.
- erehweb 13y agoThere are judicial elections. Don't know if this particular position is subject to election.
- techsupporter 13y agoAlmost all positions for judges are subject to partisan election in Texas, from the Court of Criminal Appeals (highest criminal court) to the Texas Supreme Court (highest civil court) down to the Justice of the Peace for a specific precinct. The exception is cities: most cities appoint municipal court judges for two- or four-year terms, as decided by the City Council and per the city's Home Rule charter. Municipal judges are elected in a minority of cities.
- Luc 13y agoDoesn't that lead to judges pandering to the public to get re-elected? Here in Belgium judges are appointed for life (which then has a lot of problems when they're not as competent as they could be, but does offer protection when making unpopular decisions).
- rayiner 13y agoYes, terribly. Our federal judges are appointed for life. Our state judges are mostly elected, which makes state prosecutions in places like Texas a clusterfuck. And lots of people defend the states' rights to be retarded, because federalism.
- tagabek 13y agoLink to article that explains what he posted http://www.inquisitr.com/843742/justin-carter-teen-jailed-for-terroristic-facebook-comments-out-on-bail-after-anonymous-person-posts-500000-bail/ http://www.inquisitr.com/843742/justin-carter-teen-jailed-fo...
- Blara 13y agoThanks, had to click 3 links before the OP story gave some insight into what had happened.
- djweber 13y agoGiven recent events, what this kid said was foolish - but did it really merit imprisonment? The government would have a field day with users on services such as Xbox Live and just about any online community that reaches a wide demographic. The mainstream media basically left this kid to rot, save for a few blurbs on the 'fourth page' news. Had it not been for user-generated coverage on the net and the generous person who bailed him out, he would have probably rotted in jail for who knows how long. No, instead we're more interested in hearing about celebrity babies being born or some has-been mobster in his twilight years. The system is broken - well, at least it's broken for anyone who respects human rights and civil liberties. To put my hand over my heart and pledge my loyalty to the 'land of the free, and the home of the brave'. What a joke! Thinking that we have any say in the supposed 'democratic process' is laughable. What does voting even do now other than make the slicksters in Washington play musical chairs? What is it going to take to actually create reform and install a government that cares about its people - a government that is the common people? Apathy is imprisonment.
- DrStalker 13y agoI think the recent Australian equivilent was much better handled: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/teenager-arrested-for-8216bomb8217-tweet-during-pink8217s-concert-at-rod-laver-arena-melbourne/story-fni0fee2-1226675857291 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/teenager-arrested... "[The Police] spoke to him, they fed him and someone was there making jokes with him. They just thought he needed a kick in the bum and that’s all he really needed," He's facing charges because the management of the venue wanted to place charges, but I expect he'll end up with something like community service and nothing that will ruin his future job prospects.
- l33tbro 13y agoPeople just don't give a shit. That's the sad reality. The Kardashian baby is far more important. I mean, look at PRISM. I'm honestly starting to think we deserve it.
- chrischen 13y agoThis whole event feels like an enormous waste of time and money by and for everyone.
- lawnchair_larry 13y agoYeah, it's begging for an "adult" to step in, smack everybody involved upside the head, and tell them to stop being ridiculous and get on with things that matter. It's really baffling that this is actually happening and a real kid is having his life ruined over that.
- rhizome 13y agoThis is great news, but I really have to rain on the parade: what took so long?
- noonespecial 13y agoAs if we needed another fight to defend yet another constitutional amendment in peril... Now we've got to make some noise about the 8th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Excessive_bail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_... (Excessive bail: Yep, founding fathers thought of that too.)
- wrboyce 13y ago> Yep, founding fathers thought of that too. No, they stole the idea from British Law.
- noonespecial 13y agoWell, yes, if you get pedantic about it, the constitution is really kind of a greatest-hits mix tape of English Law. But they were hella-good DJ's.
- emhart 13y agoProbably my favorite thing said on HN in my limited time here. Oddly heartwarming to boot.
- polymatter 13y ago"thought of" does not mean "invented from scratch without any influence from anything previously".
- alan_cx 13y agoAre you referring to the cases in the UK where people made jokes and ended up in court for it? Because, we don't even have free speech guaranteed. Quite a few people are going to jail for their words. On top of that, we refuse entry to people and boot others out because of what they say. Merely their words and opinions. See, now we have this scary notion of "hate speech". No one knows what it means, but people get arrested and charged, and end up in jail. Its on a whim. It's designed mission creep gone mad. Any pretense of free speech in the UK is long gone.
- l33tbro 13y agoThis case disgusts me. It makes me sick to the stomach. What the fuck happened to this world.
- forgottenpaswrd 13y agoWhat the fuck happened to America. FTFY. Americans believe his country= the world, not true.
- thomasfortes 13y agoAnyway, he has a point. Police abuse, federal spying and over abuse of the law system by the governments are, unfortunately, becoming a common point in many of the so called "democratic" countries.
- veridies 13y agoIt's bizarre to see the number of comments on places with normally great discussion (Ars Technica being a prime example) who talk about how this kid should "only" get community service or a small fine. He made a joke. An obvious joke, seemingly devoid of any real malice. The idea that he should invoke any punishment for this is insane. His speech is protected by the First Amendment, and morally he did absolutely nothing wrong.
- SagelyGuru 13y agoI remember the days, my friend, when people got charged with what they did rather than with what they said. I am feeling very old suddenly. The combination of introducing new thought and speech crimes, while recording everything everybody says and writes, brings us squarely into an unchartered new era of despotism. No doubt this case figures prominently in the handful of statistics of "prevented terrorism attacks", used to justify the NSA activities. There is a danger here of a vicious downward spiral, whereby such cases are energetically pursued because they are interpreted as successes of the surveillance, used to boost the surveillance and thus to create even more such cases.
- rayiner 13y agoThose days never existed, people just got worked up about different stupid shit. Also: what's the point of bringing the NSA into this? Some Canadian lady saw his Facebook post and called the police.
- cloverich 13y ago> Also: what's the point of bringing the NSA into this? Some Canadian lady saw his Facebook post and called the police Because its easy to draw a line between: 1. Some lady see's stupid thing you posted, you go to jail. 2. NSA Analyst finds some stupid thing you posted (at any point in the past?), you go to jail.
- acuozzo 13y ago> Some Canadian lady saw his Facebook post and called the police. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian,_Texas
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bjourne 13y agoHow come the US still has a bail system? It so obviously favours those who can pay their way through. Either you are under arrest or you are not. If you are, you should only be able to regain your freedom by being found not guilty.
- thecabinet 13y agoIn the District Court of Maryland, minimum waiting time from arrest to trial is 4-6 weeks, and in major cases it can exceed a year. The only thing that eliminating bail will accomplish is further strengthening the power of the plea bargain.
- adient 13y agoPosting bail has nothing to do with being under arrest, and everything to do with remaining detained. For many (particularly non-violent) arrests there is no reason to detain a person until the time of their trial, which is at least a month but can commonly be a year or longer after the original arrest date due to a backlogged court system as well as delays necessary to prepare for a trial. Bail system does favor people that can afford it, but so does the trial system (afford a better lawyer), the healthcare system (afford a better doctor), the housing system (afford a better house in a better area), etc. That's called capitalism.
- bjourne 13y agoI agree with you that it does not make sense to detain someone for a non-violent crime unless they are likely to commit more crimes. But then they should be released unconditionally while awaiting their trial, not dependent upon whether they can pay a ransom fee or not. On the other hand a psychopathic murderer is dangerous to society so he should never have the option to pay bail.
- samolang 13y agoI could be mistaken, but I don't think the idea is to force poor people to be detained. I think the purpose is to provide an incentive for the accused to show up to their court date. If the person posts the bail themselves, then they get the money back when they show up. If they use a bail bondsman, then a bounty hunter will track them down if they don't show up.
- fmavituna 13y agoSlightly off topic: How does the bail system fit to "Equal justice under law" ? How a justice system can call itself just when rich get a clear advantage?
- clarky07 13y agogenerally speaking, bail is set based on the persons means and the crime. The amount is supposed to be an amount that will make a person show up for trial, so a wealthy person will get a higher bail than a poor person for the same crime. Also, the worse the crime (and punishment expected) the higher the bail all of that is why this is so absurd. the bail is extraordinarily high for the "crime" and for the person's level of wealth.
- jokoon 13y agoI wonder how this anon person/group gathered that money.
- amykhar 13y agoSo, anybody else think that maybe the anonymous donor was somebody associated with Facebook?
- abjr 13y agoWho the hell were the geniuses that actually indicted him? And to sit there for 5 months? Where's his speedy trial?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jccc 13y agoIn jail he's been beaten to the point of black eyes and concussions, stripped naked and held in solitary. While we're all debating like armchair constitutional scholars, I'd say the $500,000 donor was motivated at least as much by this. http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129617/teen-jailed-for-facebook-comment-reportedly-beat-up-behind-bars http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129...
- wes-exp 13y agoSolitary confinement is believed by many critics to be a form of psychological torture which can cause long-lasting damage to the brain. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/solitary-confinement-2/ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/07/solitary-confineme... The fact that this kid's harmless comments have triggered a rabbit hole whereby he is on the receiving end of physical and psychological abuse while under the "care" of the state is disgusting and appalling. I do imagine such concerns played into the donor's decision.
- columbo 13y agoIt's crazy to think about the precedent this sets. I mean, what about public works, books, music & articles? Could this be considered a terrorist threat these days? The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any fucking time. Any fucking day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will cuz I sure could use a vacation from this Silly shit, stupid shit... I'm sure there are better examples, more scholarly ones, but that was the first off the top of my head.
- medde 13y agoThey already started "fixing" books: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/01/06/huck-finn-censorship-and-the-n-word-controversy/ http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/01/06/huck-finn-censorship... ... (it will be so much easier/faster once everything is digital and remotely controlled)
- fireix 13y agoAnyone wonder who might have paid this high an amount to bail this kid out? half a million is not a chump change for many millionaires or multi millionaires...but could be for someone who is a multi billionaire... And which multi billionaire would have 'soft' side to a facebook comment by a young kid..19 yr kid...maybe someone who probably would have said brash things himself when at that age...(not implying that he would have in same context) ...so could that be Zuckerberg? 1/2 million is a chump change for him and has obviously affiliation to see people not stop commenting on FB. Just wondering
- ccera 13y agoWhoever bailed the kid out did not pay $500,000 -- they paid either 10% or 15% (i.e., $50,000 or $75,000) to a bail bondsman as a non-refundable bond, and the bail bondsman then paid the $500,000 to the state. It's still a nice gesture. My guess is it was Johnny Depp.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ramblerman 13y agoHas anybody heard from the woman who set this whole thing in motion? It would be a big boost to the case, I imagine, if she comes forward and says "I never wanted this". And sticks up for the poor kid.