16 ms·

Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

360 points by gigq 13y ago

dylandrop 13y ago
Really young too. What a shame.
1qaz2wsx3edc 13y ago
. We've lost a lot of great people in the last year it seems.
- GuiA 13y ago
  That's one of the both wonderful and sad things about our field; it is so young and burgeoning that we get to interact with many of its founders and grandmasters on a daily basis, but we also get to see them pass away. We miss you, Seth :(
  - jpeg_hero 13y ago
    the human condition?
    - GuiA 13y ago
      You will likely see Gates, Stallman, Torvalds, Lessig, Knuth, Norman, Minsky, Alan Kay, Abelson, Rivest, Sussman, [...] die in your lifetime. Sure, Turing, Church, Curry and others have already died, but their numbers are low compared to the ones that have not yet (and some of the older users here might actually have been alive at the time of their passing). If you were in a field such as chemistry/philosophy/biology/etc., you would also be alive for the deaths of some eminent people in your field, but not in the same proportions.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
jcastro 13y ago
I met Seth at a Linux conference once, he was a really friendly guy and well liked, such a shame.
joonix 13y ago
When will we stop tolerating the flagrant waste of life that occurs every day as a result of our addiction and worship of the automobile?
- akivabamberger 13y ago
  Is this a joke? What part of this death is due to automobile worship?
  - _delirium 13y ago
    He was killed by an automobile driver. The U.S. is notorious [1] for bicyclists (and pedestrians) being hit by cars at a relatively high rate, because it prioritizes automobile infrastructure and speed (and culture) over bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure/accessibility/safety. [1] Not to say it's the worst, just relatively bad for an advanced country.
    - chrischen 13y ago
      You've never been to China then. I've never been to any country where the drivers are more courteous to pedestrians than the USA.
      - moskie 13y ago
        The US is a big place. Some areas are OK for pedestrians and bicyclists. Many are not so friendly or accommodating.
        chrischen 13y ago
        I've been around the US. Even in this article, the driver didn't seem to have done it because of disregard for cyclers or pedestrians. It claimed s/he moved out of the way to avoid traffic, and probably didn't see the cycler. In China, they might actually go on the sidewalk intentionally and drive at you assuming you will move out of the way for them.
rufugee 13y ago
So very sad. I personally think the world would be a much better place if cars were relegated to intercity travel and walking/biking/public transit were the only means of intracity movement. The world would be cleaner and in all likelihood much healthier, and needless accidents like this would be avoided. RIP.
- JonSkeptic 13y ago
  Unfortunately, this is not remotely feasible in many of the most populated cities of the US, nor many of the rural cities. [0] It's a nice thought, but not one that could ever happen. Till we learn to drive responsibly and be aware of our environment as a matter of course, these accidents will continue to happen. RIP. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/05/commuting-in-the-u-s-is-long-and-hellish-but-at-least-it-hasnt-gotten-worse/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/05/c...
  - bluepen44 13y ago
    "JonSkeptic"..not surprised by the sentiment of your comment. I think it is feasible..certainly not in all cities and maybe not in any established cities..but some small cities could implement such a solution. That or entirely new cities could be created with this design. Just require cars to be parked when entering city limits and traded for a golf cart or Segway or something of the sort. The boundaries could be expanded as the city grows if the idea was popular..
    - MartinCron 13y ago
      An incremental alternative would be to impose a congestion tax for people who choose to drive their cars into the city. The tax would create an incentive not to drive and could be used to fund things like transit and bike sharing.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Even if you start designing new small cities to accommodate no automobiles, you will not be able to eliminate automobiles outside those cities, nor will you be able to force everyone to live in them. You'd basically just be building a car-less retirement community and hope that young people opt into it.
johnfowler 13y ago
This is awful. R.I.P.
portlander52232 13y ago
"Hit and run bike accident". No, a hit and run automobile homicide.
- gigq 13y ago
  Good point, changed the title to hit and run accident.
- danso 13y ago
  Fatal vehicle accidents are not always vehicular homicide/manslaughter. A standard of negligence (such as being past the DUI limit) has to be established. Hit-and-run also does not necessarily result in a homicide (or assault) charge being filed.
  - xanderstrike 13y ago
    Someone struck him with a car and killed him. I think leaving the scene after killing someone with a vehicle should satisfy any any standard of negligence.
    - nkohari 13y ago
      That's not what "negligence" means in the legal sense.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      If is was a hit and run, then negligence shouldn't even be an issue anymore. A hit and run should automatically be escalated to homicide.
    - danso 13y ago
      This isn't about what should/shouldn't be, I'm talking about how the legal system views these things. Vehicular homicide has a requirement of negligence, because traditionally the justice system sees a qualitative difference between a grandpa who backs over a grandchild who runs behind the SUV and someone who chooses to drive despite being blind drunk. In terms of the hit-and-run == negligence...the two things correlate...a drunk driver may be so drunk that they don't realize they've killed someone. Or more maliciously, they do realize it but don't want to take a breathalyzer at the scene of the crime. However, there are cases (which does not seem to apply to the case in question) in which otherwise well-behaved drivers have killed someone unknowingly or for some reason panicked and left. It's still a crime, but it's not "homicide"
josh2600 13y ago
This is terrible, but I wonder if there's a technical way we can provide a black box for bicyclists so that these sorts of injustices don't go unpunished. RIP :(.
- antr 13y ago
  A camera mounted on the bike/helmet is the best solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqSp4XZX0CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqSp4XZX0CU
  - dusing 13y ago
    Funny how the video also shows them running a stop sign. I think you have to follow lights and stop signs even in the bike lane, right?
    - notatoad 13y ago
      Not necessarily. In some regions cyclists are legally allowed to treat a stop sign as a yield sign.
      - cobrausn 13y ago
        This sounds like an incredibly bad idea. This pushes even more responsibility onto the person operating several thousand pounds of metal, assuming they will make the correct snap judgement when a bike they didn't see rides out in front of them. It seems to me the bike riders have a lot more to lose at that stop sign than any car driver who doesn't see the bike.
        koenigdavidmj 13y ago
        If it's a yield sign, then the biker should be going slowly enough that they can stop quickly upon seeing a car. You don't go full speed through a yield sign in a car, and you don't on a bike either. That law also applies only in Idaho.
        13y ago
betterunix 13y ago
So sad to hear this! I met Seth at FUDCon a few years ago, he was a nice guy and very interesting to talk to. My condolences to his family and loved ones.
timboisvert 13y ago
So sad to hear this. Condolences to his family and to all my former colleagues at Red Hat. This is a huge loss for the open source community.
collinvandyck76 13y ago
At some point in the future we will look back on the era of the automobile as the era of carnage; the amount of life lost is staggering. I bike to work every day in a pretty bike-friendly city (compared to most) and it is still unnerving most days.
cagenut 13y ago
I just met Seth in-person for the first time at ansiblefest a few weeks ago, after having crossed paths with him on irc for nearly a decade. Every time I renewed a RHEL subscription at work his was a specific name I had in mind that I wanted to fund the work of. I've built my entire career on the redhat/fedora/centos/yum/cobbler/func/ansible projects he's been a major part of. He wasn't just a prolific contributor, he was a really good guy. He helped people out in irc channels near constantly. After my first ever conference presentation he came up to me and complimented and thanked me for it. He was both a code and cultural pillar of the greater redhat community, I will miss him.
- 3am 13y ago
  What a huge loss for the RDU tech community. A very decent guy by all accounts and a huge legacy in the open source world. It's very difficult seeing his handle still logged into a number of freenode channels, where he was so active and helpful. Deepest sympathies to his colleagues, friends, and family.
oddshocks 13y ago
The family wanted to keep this off social media for now. Unfortunate that you posted this.
- gohrt 13y ago
  Free charity project idea: Create a space (website) with a voicemail phone number, guestbook, etc, designed to accept people who want to reach out to a victim of a current tragedy. Then when the news spreads, spreader include a link to something like http://reachout.to/sethvidal http://reachout.to/sethvidal So that the interested acquaintances and public can go there for official information, memorial info, and to share their thoughts, privately or publicly with pre-moderation. Obviously, it should be quick an easy for the grief-stricked to flip on a site, and follow up with it later. You can't stop people talking about the incident, but you can help direct people away from frustrating the victims/families with emails/calls.
- JeremyNT 13y ago
  Author of the blog post here. My blog is intended for a small local audience, and I never intended it to "break" this story to the Internet. I wrote my post for a couple of reasons: - I wanted to add some context for my readers who might not be familiar with Seth's work; in the original WRAL.com article, Seth is mentioned only by name, with no other information about his accomplishments. - I feel horrible about what happened to Seth, almost physically ill. A man I admired, an experienced cyclist, was killed on a road I have biked on many times myself. I just felt the need to write... something. I sincerely apologize if my actions have caused grief to the family.
  - oddshocks 13y ago
    I don't think you've harmed anything. The story's all over the place by now, anyway. I am similarly sorry for the loss.
blinkingled 13y ago
People, avoid biking on roads, especially after dark. There's just too much risk for it to be worth. What a terrible tragedy. RIP Seth.
- ldh 13y ago
  People, avoid driving on roads, especially after dark. There's too much risk involved in your negligent handling of several thousand pounds of metal for it to be worth carelessly ending the life of somebody simply going about their business using public infrastructure that they pay for and use in a manner much less obtrusive and obnoxious than your own.
  - blinkingled 13y ago
    I guess you are also a proponent of walking through shady neighborhoods at late nights then? While at it, do you also recommend carrying a holier than thou placard to appeal any wandering criminals to change their ways? :)
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      I thought it was obvious that you should be biking through your neighborhood. Why would you walk?
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ferdo 13y ago
Seth was also outspoken and political. In the political environment in which Americans live, which seems to resemble the old Soviet system in some ways, one cannot discount the possibility of it not being an accident.
- antitrust 13y ago
  > In the political environment in which Americans live, which seems to resemble the old Soviet system in some ways, Can you tell us more about this?
  - ferdo 13y ago
    As only one example, Michael Hastings is a warning. Political dissent and protest are now being met with death and prison. Barrett Brown is another example. Smart, literate and technically proficient outspoken people are in danger if they fall afoul of the Powers That Be. I'm not saying that this is what happened to Seth. I'm merely saying that it can't be discounted. > I answered what I always answer: “I’m going to write a story; some of the stuff you’ll like, some of the stuff you probably won’t like. > Jake came up to me. “We’ll hunt you down and kill you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. C. will hunt you down and kill you.” > The Operators: The Wild and Terrifying Inside Story of America's War in Afghanistan > by Michael Hastings
eddieroger 13y ago
It's a shame that this has to turn from a really sad event to another bikes versus car debate, especially with so little information available other than it was a hit and run.
- larrys 13y ago
  On HN as on any forum (or where people get together and discuss something that just happened) that is what happens. The event is merely a spark for a discussion. Would it be better if all you saw was a string of "sorry to hear that" type responses (similar to a guest book in a funeral home). My opinion is no, I like the discussion.
  - Zikes 13y ago
    It would be more appropriate to share stories of our personal interactions with the deceased and to discuss their contributions to the world.
- oinksoft 13y ago
  The author of the linked article himself says: as a fellow bike commuter, this story has impacted me more than I would have anticipated. I commute by bike, I get around a lot by bike, and learning that somebody I admired was killed in this way so close to my home has really struck a nerve. It struck more than one nerve. It is extremely easy for the bicycling Hacker News user to imagine themselves in Seth Vidal's shoes. This is the sort of thing we all have nightmares about.
oinksoft 13y ago
The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my short-range transport by bicycle or foot, and I only very rarely will even ride on the main thoroughfare through downtown Alexandria, Washington St., because its practical speed limit is 40mph although the posted one is 25mph. Too many times drivers cut it close, honk at me to point out the audacity of crowding the auto-space, or slam their brakes without noticing my bike behind them. Riding a bicycle on any street that has a speed limit greater than 25mph, lacks frequent stops (lights or signs), or has more than one lane is simply treacherous even for the skilled cyclist because you never know when a self-important jerk like the mystery murderer here will feel the need to shave twenty seconds off of their commute.
- robbyking 13y ago
  Which is why more people should ride. The more cyclists there are on the road the safer we all are.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    I'm not sure if your logic holds up to critical scrutiny. To me, more bikes would simply mean a greater potential for accidents. What needs to be fixed is driver education, especially the driver tests.
    - usaar333 13y ago
      Driver awareness is huge: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/11/more-bikes-means-less-accidents.html http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/11/more-bikes-means-less-a...
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians. Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that shit. I'd rather pay $50 than get hit by a car.
ethomson 13y ago
A tragedy. I knew Seth - albeit just barely - through friends in Durham. Great guy; I knew he was a fellow cyclist but I had no idea that he was also a programmer. One of his most recent tweets is about bike commuting: "Just enjoy the ride." My heart goes out to his friends and family.
pigs 13y ago
Damn, this is sad. I'll echo the other comments here that he was a nice guy. I was an undergrad at Duke circa 1999-2000 and knew him through the Duke LUG. I was a noob, and he always showed a fair amount of patience with my questions on the mailing list. Later on the LUG started meeting for beers on Friday afternoons and he was just as friendly in real life. He was one of those guys that seemed like a computing god for me so early in my career.
joeyh 13y ago
I'm a Debian guy. I randomly encountered Seth at a hotel in Berlin, and we spent several very jetlagged hours in the lobby waiting for rooms to open up and talking about everything from yum performance to peak oil to blacksmithing. That trip turned out to be my worst European trip ever -- most of my other memories of it involve shivering under an expensive feather duvet and trying not to infect anyone when I dragged myself to meetings. Seth let me have a positive memory of that trip. We swam in different circles online and I only knew him briefly, but he was clearly a great guy. (Also, this is the second friend of mime to be killed in a hit and run car vs bike. The other was lilo. Sucks.)
stevesalevan 13y ago
I had the opportunity to work with Seth on the Func project and knew him to be a seriously stand-up dude who cared deeply about the quality of his work and the people who used it. You just had to say 'skvidal' on #fedora-devel and, as if by magic, he'd appear and get you unblocked on whatever it was you were hacking on. It was just unbelievable, I've never known a developer that cared so much about making people's lives easier. Everyone who had the privilege to be in Seth's orbit knew he was a hell of a developer, a hell of a sysadmin, and a man who worked his ass off to make the world of Linux a better place, and by god did he make it so. RIP Seth, I will miss you greatly and I know that there must be a massive crowd of folks up there vouching for you, having saved this mortal world from dependency hell.
- mpdehaan2 13y ago
  Hi Steve (and fellow Func contributor!). Amen. The influence Seth has had on my career, in fact the way I look at so many things, has been so incredibly huge I don't know what to say. He's helped me so much in so many ways, influenced the way I think in so many ways, without Func my current company wouldn't even exist and who knows what I'd be doing. If there's any advice here to take away that I might have learned from a lot of great memo-list posts from Seth, if anything at all, is go make the world a better place. Don't just write software. Care about stuff and making the world a better place. It's important. And take some time to let your yard get mowed by goats, because it's funny to watch :) We will all miss you a ton.
deleted 13y ago
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Eisbar 13y ago
UK residents - please consider signing the .gov.uk epetition [1] for the government to implement the "Get Britain Cycling Report" [2]. Report Summary [3]. The petition is close to 70,000 signatures and should be debated in parliament when it gets to 100,000. RIP [1] http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 [2] http://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-britain-cycling_goodwin-report.pdf http://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brita... [3] https://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-britain-cycling1.pdf https://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brit...
nnq 13y ago
I used to drive a bike trafficked roads, even at night, but I stopped doing this after almost hitting a biker while driving when I realized how hard it is for a driver to see and avoid bikers in traffic or for bikers to go through heavy trafficked area safely. Driving a bike through traffic or on a trafficked road at night or driving through a bikers area is basically the same as driving while drunk and stoned at the same time, only you don't realize it until you get hit by a car or you hit a biker with your car and its too late for both of you then (though if you do it, have at least the freakin decency and humanity to call an ambulance before running from the scene!)...
- alxndr 13y ago
  ...wow. Maybe you shouldn't be driving.
  - nnq 13y ago
    we all supraevaluate our competencies in lots of areas, including driving. I haven't ever actually hit anyone and I adopted a more prudent driving style in biker areas since, but I'm just being realistic about it and recognize the fact that I tended to be over confident in my driving skills, and considering that most people I know have equal or worse driving skills, I can only assume that they also supraevaluate theirs (maybe other would have just rationalized an "almost hit accident" and think something along the lines of "if my reflexes were good enough to avoid it this time, they will be good enough to avoid it next time too" and ignore the statistical side of things). And I would never do a hit-and-run but I'm realistic about assuming lots of people will be tempted to do so and some will give in to this temptation (imagine hitting someone in a foreign country and contemplating the possibility of spending time in a foreign jail for this!). ...that's why I really think that driving is and area where machines can get to be much better than humans and really hope to see thing's like Google's autonomous car perfected and used.
- mindslight 13y ago
  > though if you do it, have at least the freakin decency and humanity to call an ambulance before running from the scene Due to the non-anonymous nature of current telephones, this is impossible.
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antitrust 13y ago
I am sorry to hear of his death. He sounds like someone I would have liked to know.
gaoshan 13y ago
The general availability of bike friendly travel options in the United States is one that it woefully underserved. In the past couple of years I have heard of so many bike/vehicle accidents that I no longer ride anywhere that can be reached by a motor vehicle. I used to ride on the road but the best option for me was a bike lane that offered about a meter of space between myself and vehicles in a 55 mph zone. In many places I had to risk just riding on the edge of the roadway and hoping for the best and I had my share of getting brushed by side-view mirrors. No more. It is simply too unsafe to risk riding anywhere that I am not physically separated from traffic.
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D9u 13y ago
My condolences to Mr Vidal's family & friends.
MrBra 13y ago
damn... how stupid human beings can be? One's life is priceless, and we sacrifice it because we have no patience for traffic ? Damn... this is so hard to bear, I hope family will receive all positive energy and love we are sharing here and beyond, and that this energy will surprisingly shape their life in the future in a way that it will somehow ease up their suffering a bit, and then one day make their life normal again, togheter with the reaching of the wisdom that he is still around us/them. With love..
talos 13y ago
How is this a "bike accident"? It sounds like a hit-and-run murder, for which the driver ought be prosecuted at the very least for vehicular manslaughter.
kacy 13y ago
The guy turned himself in. http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-killed-bicyclist/12644209/ http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-k...
jwildeboer 13y ago
Disgusting that so many post about what bicycle riders are to blame for instead of getting together here and work hard on identifying the driver of the car that killed Seth. Community, show your power and do something good in all this evil. A hit and run driver ranks very low on my acceptance level. As a fellow Red Hatter that knew Seth I want to have the driver identified and brought to justice.
kickingvegas 13y ago
FWIW, I turn on my bike lights during the day for safety.
tlear 13y ago
Sad truth is that if you get hit and hurt or killed while riding a bike, chances of guilty part being punished are almost non-existent. In some places people will actively try to run you from the road, almost everywhere you gona get doored time to time. Thats just the reality of biking in a city in North America. Still chances of death or a really bad accident are relatively low, and biking is way more fun then public transit. I have not been doored or hit in a few years so I continue with it, but I am also very defensive while riding basically assuming that every car will try to run me from the road so I try as much as I can to give myself space to react. Remember police do not give a shit at all, so your life is in your hands and those of random fucks trying to shave 5 seconds from getting to wherever they are going.
- russianbandit 13y ago
  Is this true? If someone is killed by a car while biking, the car driver won't get time in jail?

360 points by gigq 13y ago

dylandrop 13y ago

Really young too. What a shame.

1qaz2wsx3edc 13y ago

. We've lost a lot of great people in the last year it seems.

GuiA 13y ago
That's one of the both wonderful and sad things about our field; it is so young and burgeoning that we get to interact with many of its founders and grandmasters on a daily basis, but we also get to see them pass away. We miss you, Seth :(
- jpeg_hero 13y ago
  the human condition?
  - GuiA 13y ago
    You will likely see Gates, Stallman, Torvalds, Lessig, Knuth, Norman, Minsky, Alan Kay, Abelson, Rivest, Sussman, [...] die in your lifetime. Sure, Turing, Church, Curry and others have already died, but their numbers are low compared to the ones that have not yet (and some of the older users here might actually have been alive at the time of their passing). If you were in a field such as chemistry/philosophy/biology/etc., you would also be alive for the deaths of some eminent people in your field, but not in the same proportions.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

jcastro 13y ago

I met Seth at a Linux conference once, he was a really friendly guy and well liked, such a shame.

joonix 13y ago

When will we stop tolerating the flagrant waste of life that occurs every day as a result of our addiction and worship of the automobile?

akivabamberger 13y ago
Is this a joke? What part of this death is due to automobile worship?
- _delirium 13y ago
  He was killed by an automobile driver. The U.S. is notorious [1] for bicyclists (and pedestrians) being hit by cars at a relatively high rate, because it prioritizes automobile infrastructure and speed (and culture) over bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure/accessibility/safety. [1] Not to say it's the worst, just relatively bad for an advanced country.
  - chrischen 13y ago
    You've never been to China then. I've never been to any country where the drivers are more courteous to pedestrians than the USA.
    - moskie 13y ago
      The US is a big place. Some areas are OK for pedestrians and bicyclists. Many are not so friendly or accommodating.
      - chrischen 13y ago
        I've been around the US. Even in this article, the driver didn't seem to have done it because of disregard for cyclers or pedestrians. It claimed s/he moved out of the way to avoid traffic, and probably didn't see the cycler. In China, they might actually go on the sidewalk intentionally and drive at you assuming you will move out of the way for them.

rufugee 13y ago

So very sad. I personally think the world would be a much better place if cars were relegated to intercity travel and walking/biking/public transit were the only means of intracity movement. The world would be cleaner and in all likelihood much healthier, and needless accidents like this would be avoided. RIP.

JonSkeptic 13y ago
Unfortunately, this is not remotely feasible in many of the most populated cities of the US, nor many of the rural cities. [0] It's a nice thought, but not one that could ever happen. Till we learn to drive responsibly and be aware of our environment as a matter of course, these accidents will continue to happen. RIP. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/05/commuting-in-the-u-s-is-long-and-hellish-but-at-least-it-hasnt-gotten-worse/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/05/c...
- bluepen44 13y ago
  "JonSkeptic"..not surprised by the sentiment of your comment. I think it is feasible..certainly not in all cities and maybe not in any established cities..but some small cities could implement such a solution. That or entirely new cities could be created with this design. Just require cars to be parked when entering city limits and traded for a golf cart or Segway or something of the sort. The boundaries could be expanded as the city grows if the idea was popular..
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    An incremental alternative would be to impose a congestion tax for people who choose to drive their cars into the city. The tax would create an incentive not to drive and could be used to fund things like transit and bike sharing.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Even if you start designing new small cities to accommodate no automobiles, you will not be able to eliminate automobiles outside those cities, nor will you be able to force everyone to live in them. You'd basically just be building a car-less retirement community and hope that young people opt into it.

johnfowler 13y ago

This is awful. R.I.P.

portlander52232 13y ago

"Hit and run bike accident". No, a hit and run automobile homicide.

gigq 13y ago
Good point, changed the title to hit and run accident.
danso 13y ago
Fatal vehicle accidents are not always vehicular homicide/manslaughter. A standard of negligence (such as being past the DUI limit) has to be established. Hit-and-run also does not necessarily result in a homicide (or assault) charge being filed.
- xanderstrike 13y ago
  Someone struck him with a car and killed him. I think leaving the scene after killing someone with a vehicle should satisfy any any standard of negligence.
  - nkohari 13y ago
    That's not what "negligence" means in the legal sense.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    If is was a hit and run, then negligence shouldn't even be an issue anymore. A hit and run should automatically be escalated to homicide.
  - danso 13y ago
    This isn't about what should/shouldn't be, I'm talking about how the legal system views these things. Vehicular homicide has a requirement of negligence, because traditionally the justice system sees a qualitative difference between a grandpa who backs over a grandchild who runs behind the SUV and someone who chooses to drive despite being blind drunk. In terms of the hit-and-run == negligence...the two things correlate...a drunk driver may be so drunk that they don't realize they've killed someone. Or more maliciously, they do realize it but don't want to take a breathalyzer at the scene of the crime. However, there are cases (which does not seem to apply to the case in question) in which otherwise well-behaved drivers have killed someone unknowingly or for some reason panicked and left. It's still a crime, but it's not "homicide"

josh2600 13y ago

This is terrible, but I wonder if there's a technical way we can provide a black box for bicyclists so that these sorts of injustices don't go unpunished. RIP :(.

antr 13y ago
A camera mounted on the bike/helmet is the best solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqSp4XZX0CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqSp4XZX0CU
- dusing 13y ago
  Funny how the video also shows them running a stop sign. I think you have to follow lights and stop signs even in the bike lane, right?
  - notatoad 13y ago
    Not necessarily. In some regions cyclists are legally allowed to treat a stop sign as a yield sign.
    - cobrausn 13y ago
      This sounds like an incredibly bad idea. This pushes even more responsibility onto the person operating several thousand pounds of metal, assuming they will make the correct snap judgement when a bike they didn't see rides out in front of them. It seems to me the bike riders have a lot more to lose at that stop sign than any car driver who doesn't see the bike.
      - koenigdavidmj 13y ago
        If it's a yield sign, then the biker should be going slowly enough that they can stop quickly upon seeing a car. You don't go full speed through a yield sign in a car, and you don't on a bike either. That law also applies only in Idaho.
      - 13y ago

betterunix 13y ago

So sad to hear this! I met Seth at FUDCon a few years ago, he was a nice guy and very interesting to talk to. My condolences to his family and loved ones.

timboisvert 13y ago

So sad to hear this. Condolences to his family and to all my former colleagues at Red Hat. This is a huge loss for the open source community.

collinvandyck76 13y ago

At some point in the future we will look back on the era of the automobile as the era of carnage; the amount of life lost is staggering. I bike to work every day in a pretty bike-friendly city (compared to most) and it is still unnerving most days.

cagenut 13y ago

I just met Seth in-person for the first time at ansiblefest a few weeks ago, after having crossed paths with him on irc for nearly a decade. Every time I renewed a RHEL subscription at work his was a specific name I had in mind that I wanted to fund the work of. I've built my entire career on the redhat/fedora/centos/yum/cobbler/func/ansible projects he's been a major part of. He wasn't just a prolific contributor, he was a really good guy. He helped people out in irc channels near constantly. After my first ever conference presentation he came up to me and complimented and thanked me for it. He was both a code and cultural pillar of the greater redhat community, I will miss him.

3am 13y ago
What a huge loss for the RDU tech community. A very decent guy by all accounts and a huge legacy in the open source world. It's very difficult seeing his handle still logged into a number of freenode channels, where he was so active and helpful. Deepest sympathies to his colleagues, friends, and family.

oddshocks 13y ago

The family wanted to keep this off social media for now. Unfortunate that you posted this.

gohrt 13y ago
Free charity project idea: Create a space (website) with a voicemail phone number, guestbook, etc, designed to accept people who want to reach out to a victim of a current tragedy. Then when the news spreads, spreader include a link to something like http://reachout.to/sethvidal http://reachout.to/sethvidal So that the interested acquaintances and public can go there for official information, memorial info, and to share their thoughts, privately or publicly with pre-moderation. Obviously, it should be quick an easy for the grief-stricked to flip on a site, and follow up with it later. You can't stop people talking about the incident, but you can help direct people away from frustrating the victims/families with emails/calls.
JeremyNT 13y ago
Author of the blog post here. My blog is intended for a small local audience, and I never intended it to "break" this story to the Internet. I wrote my post for a couple of reasons: - I wanted to add some context for my readers who might not be familiar with Seth's work; in the original WRAL.com article, Seth is mentioned only by name, with no other information about his accomplishments. - I feel horrible about what happened to Seth, almost physically ill. A man I admired, an experienced cyclist, was killed on a road I have biked on many times myself. I just felt the need to write... something. I sincerely apologize if my actions have caused grief to the family.
- oddshocks 13y ago
  I don't think you've harmed anything. The story's all over the place by now, anyway. I am similarly sorry for the loss.

blinkingled 13y ago

People, avoid biking on roads, especially after dark. There's just too much risk for it to be worth. What a terrible tragedy. RIP Seth.

ldh 13y ago
People, avoid driving on roads, especially after dark. There's too much risk involved in your negligent handling of several thousand pounds of metal for it to be worth carelessly ending the life of somebody simply going about their business using public infrastructure that they pay for and use in a manner much less obtrusive and obnoxious than your own.
- blinkingled 13y ago
  I guess you are also a proponent of walking through shady neighborhoods at late nights then? While at it, do you also recommend carrying a holier than thou placard to appeal any wandering criminals to change their ways? :)
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    I thought it was obvious that you should be biking through your neighborhood. Why would you walk?

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ferdo 13y ago

Seth was also outspoken and political. In the political environment in which Americans live, which seems to resemble the old Soviet system in some ways, one cannot discount the possibility of it not being an accident.

antitrust 13y ago
> In the political environment in which Americans live, which seems to resemble the old Soviet system in some ways, Can you tell us more about this?
- ferdo 13y ago
  As only one example, Michael Hastings is a warning. Political dissent and protest are now being met with death and prison. Barrett Brown is another example. Smart, literate and technically proficient outspoken people are in danger if they fall afoul of the Powers That Be. I'm not saying that this is what happened to Seth. I'm merely saying that it can't be discounted. > I answered what I always answer: “I’m going to write a story; some of the stuff you’ll like, some of the stuff you probably won’t like. > Jake came up to me. “We’ll hunt you down and kill you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. C. will hunt you down and kill you.” > The Operators: The Wild and Terrifying Inside Story of America's War in Afghanistan > by Michael Hastings

eddieroger 13y ago

It's a shame that this has to turn from a really sad event to another bikes versus car debate, especially with so little information available other than it was a hit and run.

larrys 13y ago
On HN as on any forum (or where people get together and discuss something that just happened) that is what happens. The event is merely a spark for a discussion. Would it be better if all you saw was a string of "sorry to hear that" type responses (similar to a guest book in a funeral home). My opinion is no, I like the discussion.
- Zikes 13y ago
  It would be more appropriate to share stories of our personal interactions with the deceased and to discuss their contributions to the world.
oinksoft 13y ago
The author of the linked article himself says: as a fellow bike commuter, this story has impacted me more than I would have anticipated. I commute by bike, I get around a lot by bike, and learning that somebody I admired was killed in this way so close to my home has really struck a nerve. It struck more than one nerve. It is extremely easy for the bicycling Hacker News user to imagine themselves in Seth Vidal's shoes. This is the sort of thing we all have nightmares about.

oinksoft 13y ago

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my short-range transport by bicycle or foot, and I only very rarely will even ride on the main thoroughfare through downtown Alexandria, Washington St., because its practical speed limit is 40mph although the posted one is 25mph. Too many times drivers cut it close, honk at me to point out the audacity of crowding the auto-space, or slam their brakes without noticing my bike behind them. Riding a bicycle on any street that has a speed limit greater than 25mph, lacks frequent stops (lights or signs), or has more than one lane is simply treacherous even for the skilled cyclist because you never know when a self-important jerk like the mystery murderer here will feel the need to shave twenty seconds off of their commute.

robbyking 13y ago
Which is why more people should ride. The more cyclists there are on the road the safer we all are.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  I'm not sure if your logic holds up to critical scrutiny. To me, more bikes would simply mean a greater potential for accidents. What needs to be fixed is driver education, especially the driver tests.
  - usaar333 13y ago
    Driver awareness is huge: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/11/more-bikes-means-less-accidents.html http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/11/more-bikes-means-less-a...
enraged_camel 13y ago
I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians. Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that shit. I'd rather pay $50 than get hit by a car.

ethomson 13y ago

A tragedy. I knew Seth - albeit just barely - through friends in Durham. Great guy; I knew he was a fellow cyclist but I had no idea that he was also a programmer. One of his most recent tweets is about bike commuting: "Just enjoy the ride." My heart goes out to his friends and family.

pigs 13y ago

Damn, this is sad. I'll echo the other comments here that he was a nice guy. I was an undergrad at Duke circa 1999-2000 and knew him through the Duke LUG. I was a noob, and he always showed a fair amount of patience with my questions on the mailing list. Later on the LUG started meeting for beers on Friday afternoons and he was just as friendly in real life. He was one of those guys that seemed like a computing god for me so early in my career.

joeyh 13y ago

I'm a Debian guy. I randomly encountered Seth at a hotel in Berlin, and we spent several very jetlagged hours in the lobby waiting for rooms to open up and talking about everything from yum performance to peak oil to blacksmithing. That trip turned out to be my worst European trip ever -- most of my other memories of it involve shivering under an expensive feather duvet and trying not to infect anyone when I dragged myself to meetings. Seth let me have a positive memory of that trip. We swam in different circles online and I only knew him briefly, but he was clearly a great guy. (Also, this is the second friend of mime to be killed in a hit and run car vs bike. The other was lilo. Sucks.)

stevesalevan 13y ago

I had the opportunity to work with Seth on the Func project and knew him to be a seriously stand-up dude who cared deeply about the quality of his work and the people who used it. You just had to say 'skvidal' on #fedora-devel and, as if by magic, he'd appear and get you unblocked on whatever it was you were hacking on. It was just unbelievable, I've never known a developer that cared so much about making people's lives easier. Everyone who had the privilege to be in Seth's orbit knew he was a hell of a developer, a hell of a sysadmin, and a man who worked his ass off to make the world of Linux a better place, and by god did he make it so. RIP Seth, I will miss you greatly and I know that there must be a massive crowd of folks up there vouching for you, having saved this mortal world from dependency hell.

mpdehaan2 13y ago
Hi Steve (and fellow Func contributor!). Amen. The influence Seth has had on my career, in fact the way I look at so many things, has been so incredibly huge I don't know what to say. He's helped me so much in so many ways, influenced the way I think in so many ways, without Func my current company wouldn't even exist and who knows what I'd be doing. If there's any advice here to take away that I might have learned from a lot of great memo-list posts from Seth, if anything at all, is go make the world a better place. Don't just write software. Care about stuff and making the world a better place. It's important. And take some time to let your yard get mowed by goats, because it's funny to watch :) We will all miss you a ton.

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Eisbar 13y ago

UK residents - please consider signing the .gov.uk epetition [1] for the government to implement the "Get Britain Cycling Report" [2]. Report Summary [3]. The petition is close to 70,000 signatures and should be debated in parliament when it gets to 100,000. RIP [1] http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 [2] http://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-britain-cycling_goodwin-report.pdf http://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brita... [3] https://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-britain-cycling1.pdf https://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brit...

nnq 13y ago

I used to drive a bike trafficked roads, even at night, but I stopped doing this after almost hitting a biker while driving when I realized how hard it is for a driver to see and avoid bikers in traffic or for bikers to go through heavy trafficked area safely. Driving a bike through traffic or on a trafficked road at night or driving through a bikers area is basically the same as driving while drunk and stoned at the same time, only you don't realize it until you get hit by a car or you hit a biker with your car and its too late for both of you then (though if you do it, have at least the freakin decency and humanity to call an ambulance before running from the scene!)...

alxndr 13y ago
...wow. Maybe you shouldn't be driving.
- nnq 13y ago
  we all supraevaluate our competencies in lots of areas, including driving. I haven't ever actually hit anyone and I adopted a more prudent driving style in biker areas since, but I'm just being realistic about it and recognize the fact that I tended to be over confident in my driving skills, and considering that most people I know have equal or worse driving skills, I can only assume that they also supraevaluate theirs (maybe other would have just rationalized an "almost hit accident" and think something along the lines of "if my reflexes were good enough to avoid it this time, they will be good enough to avoid it next time too" and ignore the statistical side of things). And I would never do a hit-and-run but I'm realistic about assuming lots of people will be tempted to do so and some will give in to this temptation (imagine hitting someone in a foreign country and contemplating the possibility of spending time in a foreign jail for this!). ...that's why I really think that driving is and area where machines can get to be much better than humans and really hope to see thing's like Google's autonomous car perfected and used.
mindslight 13y ago
> though if you do it, have at least the freakin decency and humanity to call an ambulance before running from the scene Due to the non-anonymous nature of current telephones, this is impossible.

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antitrust 13y ago

I am sorry to hear of his death. He sounds like someone I would have liked to know.

gaoshan 13y ago

The general availability of bike friendly travel options in the United States is one that it woefully underserved. In the past couple of years I have heard of so many bike/vehicle accidents that I no longer ride anywhere that can be reached by a motor vehicle. I used to ride on the road but the best option for me was a bike lane that offered about a meter of space between myself and vehicles in a 55 mph zone. In many places I had to risk just riding on the edge of the roadway and hoping for the best and I had my share of getting brushed by side-view mirrors. No more. It is simply too unsafe to risk riding anywhere that I am not physically separated from traffic.

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D9u 13y ago

My condolences to Mr Vidal's family & friends.

MrBra 13y ago

damn... how stupid human beings can be? One's life is priceless, and we sacrifice it because we have no patience for traffic ? Damn... this is so hard to bear, I hope family will receive all positive energy and love we are sharing here and beyond, and that this energy will surprisingly shape their life in the future in a way that it will somehow ease up their suffering a bit, and then one day make their life normal again, togheter with the reaching of the wisdom that he is still around us/them. With love..

talos 13y ago

How is this a "bike accident"? It sounds like a hit-and-run murder, for which the driver ought be prosecuted at the very least for vehicular manslaughter.

kacy 13y ago

The guy turned himself in. http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-killed-bicyclist/12644209/ http://www.wral.com/man-charged-in-durham-hit-and-run-that-k...

jwildeboer 13y ago

Disgusting that so many post about what bicycle riders are to blame for instead of getting together here and work hard on identifying the driver of the car that killed Seth. Community, show your power and do something good in all this evil. A hit and run driver ranks very low on my acceptance level. As a fellow Red Hatter that knew Seth I want to have the driver identified and brought to justice.

kickingvegas 13y ago

FWIW, I turn on my bike lights during the day for safety.

tlear 13y ago

Sad truth is that if you get hit and hurt or killed while riding a bike, chances of guilty part being punished are almost non-existent. In some places people will actively try to run you from the road, almost everywhere you gona get doored time to time. Thats just the reality of biking in a city in North America. Still chances of death or a really bad accident are relatively low, and biking is way more fun then public transit. I have not been doored or hit in a few years so I continue with it, but I am also very defensive while riding basically assuming that every car will try to run me from the road so I try as much as I can to give myself space to react. Remember police do not give a shit at all, so your life is in your hands and those of random fucks trying to shave 5 seconds from getting to wherever they are going.

russianbandit 13y ago
Is this true? If someone is killed by a car while biking, the car driver won't get time in jail?