23 ms·

Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

358 points by robbiet480 13y ago

robbiet480 13y ago
(latest info at bottom of comment) ABC reports it was coming from Taipei, linked forum says Taipei. Video of aftermath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFtmSybpuw&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFtmSybpuw&feature=youtu.be. Redwood City FD responding. Unknown amount of passengers. SFO FD using foam on entire plane. FAA has now shut down operations at SFO due to "disabled plane" 3rd alarm called, "red" alarm called. Multiple reports that fuselage is in multiple pieces. Tail is some yards away. FAA issues statement: "A Boeing 777 operated by Asiana Airlines crashed while landing at San Francisco International Airport." No further details. Asiana Airlines flight OZ214, Boeing 777, registration HL7742 http://t.co/bSgoVeggrU http://t.co/bSgoVeggrU Better picture: pic.twitter.com/JqLj9OAtzv #SFOFire Northfield IC, North Field Command, four engines and 3 ambulances inbound to aircraft, other units staging #CaFire @rafweverbergh: Confirmed with controller at SFO: "plane is broken in multiple pieces. (...) a hard landing" SOURCE: http://t.co/ghqoLpxfVM http://t.co/ghqoLpxfVM @scobleizer [http://twitter.com/rafweverbergh/status/353590307402694658 http://twitter.com/rafweverbergh/status/353590307402694658] @CarrieMantha: Thank God @OntarioHazards EMS reporting all passengers of the downed plane at #SFO are accounted for. Injuries but no reports of fatalities [http://twitter.com/CarrieMantha/status/353590343624691712 http://twitter.com/CarrieMantha/status/353590343624691712] @punkboyinsf: Redwood City Fire is classifying SFO plane crash as 3 alarm fire and level 8 mass casualty incident. via @lautenbach #YAL [http://twitter.com/punkboyinsf/status/353590933515804672 http://twitter.com/punkboyinsf/status/353590933515804672] @Emergency_In_SF: SFO AIR CRASH (update): crews report 48 patients have been rescued so far after 777 crashes on landing. Passengers still on burning plane [http://twitter.com/Emergency_In_SF/status/353591197144588288 http://twitter.com/Emergency_In_SF/status/353591197144588288] LIVE SHOT OF PLANE NOW AVAILABLE: @brianstelter: KTVU, Fox affiliate in San Fran, has a faraway live shot of the plane here: http://t.co/BXreHtWugm http://t.co/BXreHtWugm No anchored coverage yet. [http://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/353591320733941760 http://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/353591320733941760] Someone got a picture of the crash as it happened: @stefanielaine: just realized I have a picture of the actual crash. holy fucking shit. http://t.co/5TnOX96Gsi http://t.co/5TnOX96Gsi [http://twitter.com/stefanielaine/status/353591123958173696 http://twitter.com/stefanielaine/status/353591123958173696] @peterpham: 290 passengers on plane, 1 infant - San Francisco Fire and EMS Live Audio Feed http://t.co/ZoMhufPNMA http://t.co/ZoMhufPNMA via @Broadcastify [http://twitter.com/peterpham/status/353592842385494016 http://twitter.com/peterpham/status/353592842385494016] VERY UP CLOSE PICTURE FROM TWITTER: https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb
- jcdavis 13y ago
  The flight was Asiana 214 from Seoul: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214
- austenallred 13y ago
  Awesome reporting! Seriously, good job. I honestly believe that a collection of sources like this is the future of news; allow people to draw their own conclusions based on the first-hand content you can collect. Shameless plug: OK, that's actually what I've been building for a few months. We had to break it to finish building it (sorry, or i'd just show you), but our launchrock page is at http://grasswire.com http://grasswire.com if you want to have access when we launch
  - untog 13y ago
    I'm not sure I agree. From those first pictures I saw (charred plane) I drew my own conclusion that a large number of people must have died. From the latest reports, it appears I was wrong. Sometimes we don't know enough to make meaningful conclusions without experts weighing in. Not to mention bias- first hand accounts are rarely impartial. In this instance there aren't any "sides" to take, but I'd bet that most of the photos flowing out of Egypt right now have an opinion behind them.
    - andrewlowell 13y ago
      It's true that our first hastily-drawn conclusions from not enough facts are mostly wrong, but I will say this: it's fascinating and for me, thrilling, to watch the truth about big events coalesce in real time as primary, grassroots-sources get compiled (and fact-checked!).
    - austenallred 13y ago
      That's fair, but I think I still disagree. If you are only looking at one source, sure, it can be confusing, but if you have a good collection of all of the first-hand sources really you are able to draw the same conclusion that any reporter might be able to. Right now we have basically outsourced the job of drawing conclusions from opinionated people to reporters. Given the right information I believe every person could do that. But I recognize that's not a belief held by many people. I've just been able to watch all of the reports come in for a while and feel like that's enough, if not better.
krenoten 13y ago
Sitting in a plane there now that was supposed to take off in 10 minutes. Hopefully there were no serious injuries. There's a big plume of smoke where the 777 is.
maximz 13y ago
Here are the most recent FAA Advisories: http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list.jsp?WhichAdvisories=ATCSCC&AdvisoryCategory=All&dates=Saturday%2C+07-06-2013&AirFlow=AirFlow&Gstop=Gstop&Gdelay=Gdelay&Route=Route&Other=Other http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list.jsp?WhichAdvisories=ATCS... And here are three relevant ones already published: * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=26&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=CDM+GROUND+STOP&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=26&adv_date... * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=27&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=SFO+DIVERSION+RECOVERY&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=27&adv_date... * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=29&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=CDM+GROUND+STOP&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=29&adv_date...
gdonelli 13y ago
Instagram: http://instagram.com/p/bb0mk0OK84/ http://instagram.com/p/bb0mk0OK84/
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
lesslaw 13y ago
Why is this HN relevant ?
- blueprint 13y ago
  SFO.
- robbiet480 13y ago
  SFO is the nearest airport to San Francisco and Palo Alto, I expect this will affect travel for people of startups coming back from vacation like myself. That's why.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    TBH, if this was only interesting because some geeks might have their travel disrupted, it would indeed be off topic. Traffic jams and CalTrain disruptions would certainly be.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  Relevant for several reasons. The main one probably being that it's an airport a lot of HN members probably use. Also submission guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - biot 13y ago
    It seems to me this is a disaster they'd cover on TV news (thus off-topic) and it doesn't gratify my intellectual curiosity (thus not on-topic). Little different than a jackknifed semi on the highway that a lot of HN members probably use. Now a technical analysis of the factors leading to the crash would very much be intellectually gratifying and I look forward to seeing that posted on HN.
  - peferron 13y ago
    Don't know about other people here, but I've actually taken Asiana Airlines #214 several times.
- 13y ago
CoachRufus87 13y ago
KSFO Tower Stream - http://www.liveatc.net/flisten.php?mount=ksfo_twr&icao=ksfo http://www.liveatc.net/flisten.php?mount=ksfo_twr&icao=ksfo
- jnsaff2 13y ago
  And the Fire Rescue frequency: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6336/web http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6336/web
sethbannon 13y ago
Someone who was on the plane says everyone seems OK: https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb
- jka 13y ago
  Sincerely hope so - it may be a little early to tell though, he likely didn't have visibility of the full cabin and it's hard to tell what things are like inside.
  - ewang1 13y ago
    That's David Eun, a Samsung exec, so he was probably up front in biz class.
    - dnautics 13y ago
      the front section of the plane is theoretically the most dangerous part of the plane; survivors in plane crashes are most likely to come from just behind the wing.
      - Retric 13y ago
        That greatly depends on the type of crash. The added risk your talking about has a lot to do with nose down collisions.
        ewang1 13y ago
        I'd factor in the fact that the people density is lower up front, probably aiding you in getting off the plane faster.
        sylvinus 13y ago
        There's no need to factor in anything, those statistics come from actual outcomes of past crashes.
- 13y ago
martingordon 13y ago
Tweet/photo from someone who was on the plane: https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801
danso 13y ago
A tweet from a purported passenger: https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 > I just crash landed at SFO. Tail ripped off. Most everyone seems fine. I'm ok. Surreal... (at @flySFO) [pic] — https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb
nashequilibrium 13y ago
It seems like everyone may be fine, i pray that they all are! https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bhickey 13y ago
I'm hearing more air traffic overhead than usual. I bet there are going to be a lot of diversions to SJC and OAK. http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSFO http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSFO
bryanh 13y ago
High quality close up photo from https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb: https://pathakacdn-a.akamaihd.net/photos2/f36a5729-6db7-40db-9c98-99aa8b68df4c/original.jpg https://pathakacdn-a.akamaihd.net/photos2/f36a5729-6db7-40db...
- 51Cards 13y ago
  What a phenomenal photo and speed of information. People are still exiting with their bags in hand, incredible. THIS is one of those moments when you realize how social media and mobile devices have changed the world.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - dba7dba 13y ago
    This is another reason events in Egypt is moving SO FAST. Instead of printing a poster decrying Morsy regime and hanging it on a wall in the dark, you just text your friends how you think Morsy sucks. And that's how the revolution got started.
  - narsil 13y ago
    dba7dba: you've been hellbanned and your comments are marked [dead]. I would contact the admins about it, since I can't see why, based on your comment history.
- Osmium 13y ago
  I can't imagine the confusion that must have gone on when that happened, maybe it's shock or maybe people just underestimate the severity of their situation but correct me if I'm wrong... are there people in that photo actually carrying their bags off the plane? I can't quite comprehend that.
  - justin66 13y ago
    The bottlenecks in their escape were the doorway and the crew's deployment of the inflatable slide. Rushing the door in a panic would have done nobody any good. In a situation like that, why wouldn't you grab your bag if it was readily accessible? It seems like healthy, rational behavior rather than a symptom of extreme confusion.
clarkmoody 13y ago
Reference photo of the plane, for comparison: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Asiana-Airlines/Boeing-777-28E-ER/2258365/L/ http://www.airliners.net/photo/Asiana-Airlines/Boeing-777-28...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- reeses 13y ago
  I feel the same way but a) almost any civvies would not be able to help, b) there would be more people for emergency response to worry about, and c) families/friends would be worried sick and, unable to call, would be looking for any signs/info ASAP.
- jedbrown 13y ago
  The passengers exiting with wheeled luggage are a much bigger problem.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - ben1040 13y ago
    Seriously. If you are ever posed with a situation where you must evacuate an aircraft, then GTFO and just leave your bags onboard. Do not do anything that could impede others' egress. You can get new stuff later, and the airline is likely to compensate you anyway (case in point, within days after US Air 1549 landed in the Hudson, the airline cut checks to the passengers to compensate for irretrievable belongings). You can't buy back your life or those of your fellow passengers.
    - jlgaddis 13y ago
      We don't know (yet) what happened. It could be that the passengers were standing around for a minute or two before being able to exit the plane. In the meantime, you're probably not hurting anything by reaching up into the overhead or under your feet and grabbing your bag.
      - SamReidHughes 13y ago
        You are, you can't fit as many people in the aisle that way.
cinquemb 13y ago
Incidents like this make me wonder about interesting problems people are currently solving/or will have to address with commercialized space travel. Say if this had happened at a docking port to a space station, regardless of the severity, it would have been fatal for everyone (assuming people in transit wouldn't be in some kind of suit meant to protect them from the vacuum of space/or radiation inside of a ship that is supposed to do that).
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Ever since Soyuz 11 depressurized after/while detaching from Salyut 1, everyone has used rescue suits during launch/landing. These rescue suits are not good for EVA as they don't provide the same mobility as EVA suits (better mobility while not in a vacuum, little to no mobility while in a vacuum), but they provide life support for limited amounts of time. Radiation is really something you don't worry about until everybody is safely repressurized. Edit: Chris Hadfield talks about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gaFXZWhp4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gaFXZWhp4k
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    Do you think (or are) people would be required to wear these suits on commercialized flights? As an aside, I wish I could be involved with anything dealing with space and exploration… it all just seems so fascinating and so much potential not only for economic development, but even to understand who we are in the context of what is or may be around us.
    - furyofantares 13y ago
      Why can't you?
      - cinquemb 13y ago
        I'm on a less than traditional path right now in life, and I'm not sure who I would even reach out to that would be in a position to listen and give me a chance. But I'm trying, but probably not in the most direct way… and I guess pg said it best himself: "If you want to take on a problem as big as the ones I've discussed, don't make a direct frontal attack on it"
mittermayr 13y ago
Isn't it fascinating, how everyone is still exiting with their bags in hand? In all that chaos, I would probably just freak out and run. But apparently, a lot of them were picking up their bags before leaving the plane. Crazy. Glad so many got out though.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  many of these people are foreigners, ie. visas, passport, cash/cards, etc... It is night and day difference between having your passport+visa available for immigration control and the alternative.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      no. If everybody just rushed to the exit - it would bottle-necked and throughput would dramatically drop like it frequently happens in the known cases of club fires for example. Instead it dictates specific, much calmer, tempo: me/family alive and whole, neighbour alive and whole, bag with passport, lets move...
      - shabble 13y ago
        There's an interesting report on the A380 certification evacuation test[1] of ~870 people in 78 seconds. Granted, that was in a hanger with volunteers who knew it was going to come (but not when). Serious fuselage damage might put enough exits out of commission to heavily bottleneck, though (although I think there's supposed to be some significant safety margin on those as well). [1] https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-a380-evacuation-trial-full-report-everyone-off-in-205793/ https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-a380-evacu...
  - eshvk 13y ago
    My ex once asked me what I would miss the most if my house burnt down. I immediately said it would be the documents. I would probably worry about this even after I got an American passport.
mililani 13y ago
Ugh...my wife is deathly afraid of flying. She is in Canada now and flying back to SFO next week. I hope she doesn't hear about this.
- AndyKelley 13y ago
  Point out that the fact that this is newsworthy underscores how rare of an occurrence it is.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    I doubt that really helps with those types of fears … It’s possible to have a complete and rational understanding of the situation and still feel fear. That, at least, frequently happens to me.
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    My friend with flight anxiety actually got it from researching airplane safety. While they did learn about probabilities n'all, they also learned about way too many details, after which every single sound seems like the oscillating electron pump failure on Molvania flight 52317 where nobody survived the spontaneous atmosphere exit. It's not exactly rational, it's your silly brain suddenly deciding the specific probability of gruesome death went from epsilon to 99%, and anxiety going through the roof. Solution: sleeping pills, apparently, or generally anti-anxiety and good contact with flight staff (thus ability to find "safe feeling" seats). In the specific case.
    - jarfcl 13y ago
      I would recommend trying private airplane lessons (on a calm day) Being in control of an airplane helps a lot, and that feeling may transfer to commercial flights.
      - saraid216 13y ago
        I suspect this is what makes people feel that a car is safer: they themselves are in control, and can believe that they'd miraculously dodge any crashes through skill and luck. I don't know if that sense of control is transferable, though; paranoid backseat drivers are still a thing.
jcdavis 13y ago
ATC audio from the crash http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3 http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  I know they train for it, but the coolheaded professionalism there is remarkable - tower, other planes, all of them.
  - jlgaddis 13y ago
    Agreed. It was like it didn't even phase the controller. Wow.
  - InclinedPlane 13y ago
    That's why airlines like to get pilots with military experience. They are exposed to more crazy scenarios in training and work and generally keep a cool head better under stress.
    - duncan_bayne 13y ago
      Hmmm - but: military pilots are also known (especially in some cultures) for an over-strong respect for hierarchy, resulting in a willingness to go along with dangerous instructions. Also, at least some military pilots are trained to have a higher risk acceptance than civilian pilots. Personally, I'd be very happy having an ex-military pilot flying me around; I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons. But do be aware that the cons exist.
      - coopdog 13y ago
        Actually Korean pilots (civilian) are also known to have too strong a respect for hierarchy. I remember seeing an episode of air crash investigating where that was officially reported as a factor, so it isn't even just the military where that can be a risk.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
starpilot 13y ago
If it turns out it was a mechanical failure, and not pilot error we should credit them for a successful crash landing.
- justin66 13y ago
  Is there a pilot error that can account for the tail ripping off that plane?
  - starpilot 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike Eyewitness, standard caveats apply: > “The tail was too low. Instead of coming in flat it was coming in at a 45-degree angle, with the tail far too low,” http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19323541-boeing-777-crashes-while-landing-at-san-francisco-airport?lite http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19323541-boeing-7...
    - justin66 13y ago
      Thank you. No kidding about witness reports. At least one news report has claimed that the plane flipped over, and people are just throwing the word "cartwheel" around.
    - marvin 13y ago
      There is no sense in speculating about the cause until the official report is ready, though. Things that seem obvious immediately can easily turn out to be wrong. Unless we're just speculating for fun.
- coldcode 13y ago
  Looks like he landed too steep and short of the end of the runway, which is a jetty. Likely ripped off the tail which would have likely bounced the rest of the airframe down onto the engines ripping them off. At least the fuel was low since it was the end of the flight.
Patrick_Devine 13y ago
The flight path into SFO goes right over my house in Palo Alto. It's funny, I was wondering why there had been no planes flying overhead today, but hadn't realized what had happened until I saw this post. I hope everyone is OK.
frozenport 13y ago
Is this a case for or against automatic airplane control?
- jpiasetz 13y ago
  It's highly unlikely any answer based on this crash is going to be accurate for at least a year.
- agilebyte 13y ago
  Free flight was supposed to have happened already. But there are obstacles. As for ATCs if you do not make use of a skill frequently, you atrophy. When you are suddenly thrown in the middle of an emergency, you perform badly. We can't have "mall cops" watching computers doing air traffic control. People do not like automation that much either. Consider the fact that underground trains have drivers even though technically they are not needed. And then there are the technical aspects... So I do not think that this particular crash would bring much new to the table.
  - dmacvicar 13y ago
    Nuremberg, Germany here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_U-Bahn#ATC_and_driverless_trains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_U-Bahn#ATC_and_driver... We have driverless trains without drivers at all. There is some staff getting into random trains to check for problems (like problematic passengers, etc). Interesting thing: the migration is going gradually, there are trains with drivers running on the same line than driverless trains, and IIRC this was never done before.
  - lgeek 13y ago
    > Consider the fact that underground trains have drivers even though technically they are not needed. The London DLR[0] has been automated since it was opened in '87. It travels on the surface too. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway
    - agilebyte 13y ago
dnm 13y ago
Flight path comparison today vs yesterday. https://twitter.com/sbaker/status/353611787750494208 https://twitter.com/sbaker/status/353611787750494208
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- obituary_latte 13y ago
  What is the point of this comment? Are you mad that a collective of people found this worthy of the front page? That people live and work in SF? I don't understand your outrage. There was a major incident and people are talking about it. There are millions of other websites you could be spending your time on. Why spend it here if you find the communities actions so objectionable?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - jaxb 13y ago
      You aren't forced by anyone to read anything here.
- Kiro 13y ago
  You can't downvote submissions, only comments.
bmmayer1 13y ago
Audio from the air traffic control tower: https://www.dropbox.com/s/04qqum874iz4ijr/KSFO-Tower-18%3A22Z.mp3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/04qqum874iz4ijr/KSFO-Tower-18%3A22...
josscrowcroft 13y ago
Does this really need to be on HN? Just because it's in SFO? Everyone will already have heard about this on, I don't know, any other news channel
- yuliyp 13y ago
  260 people thought yes, so it's up and staying there for a while
  - hyperbovine 13y ago
    It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who just don't understand how a site like this works.
- bluedino 13y ago
  If you follow recent articles, HN'ers don't watch the news channels.
bfung 13y ago
I know this is exciting news and all, but: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Hacker News Guidelines What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. I'd say trying to rationalize that this story is relevant on HN by saying "startups use SFO" is a stretch. I'd hope that people taking flights out actually check with the airport first before checking HN.
- zhoutong 13y ago
  FWIW, I was in the airport waiting for my flight to SFO, and I took out my laptop and found this on HN. The counter staff only informed passengers of the news one hour after the HN post.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tankenmate 13y ago
  From what I saw it impacted before the runway. This brings back memories of the British Airways 777 that came down early due to loss of power to both engines (Speedbird 38, Beijing to London). The cause of that was ice blocking the fuel filters which starved both engines. The thing to check here was what altitude the plane was flying at for most of the flight, and what temperature it was at that altitude along the flight path.
  - markdown 13y ago
    That icing issue has since been fixed and so is irrelevant to this crash (according to CNN).
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  It's interesting in the context of the issues with the 787, which HN has shown plenty of interest in. It could have nothing to do with the 787, but show me lots of articles about the 787 and I'm going to be tangentially interested in the 777. It is also interesting in the context of HN when you think of the people who talk about how airlines need to be disrupted. It serves as a reminder of the stakes- you can't necessarily jump into the airlines business shooting from the hip and hoping for the best.
mgadams3 13y ago
Some crazy geo based Instagram photos if you search for SFO and click near the crash site Http://Instahood.meteor.com
mgadams3 13y ago
Some crazy geo based Instagram photos if you search for SFO and click near the crash site Http://Instahood.meteor.com
hrdinsky 13y ago
Sheryl Sandberg was scheduled to be on this flight but switched to a United flight [1] The now famous photo from the ground is by David Eun, a Samsung Executive [2]. Coincidentally at a time when there are talks of a Samsung / Facebook partnership [3] [1] https://www.facebook.com/sheryl/posts/10152997724435177 https://www.facebook.com/sheryl/posts/10152997724435177 [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/davideun1 http://www.linkedin.com/in/davideun1 [2] http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-leans-on-samsung-for-mobile-partnership-report-says-20130705,0,7256503.story http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook...
richtr 13y ago
While we are looking at reasons why this crash happened it may be worthwhile to consider Malcolm Gladwell's suggestion in his book 'Outliers' that Korean cultural legacy, where the High Power Distance ratio between bosses (the pilot) and their underlings (such as the co-pilot) were responsible for a series of Korean Air crashes in the 1990s. "In addition to weather and pilot fatigue, he blames those crashes on crew members whose cultural legacy made them too deferential to communicate clearly that the plane was about to crash" http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-on-culture-cockpit-communication-and-plane-crashes/ http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-...
- jarfcl 13y ago
  It may be worthwhile to read a commercial pilots comments after reading Outliers: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety (A more reasonable explanation that would have been uncovered with basic research is that foreign airline captains have less pilotmim command time.)
- markdown 13y ago
  Asian and Middle-eastern airlines have a huge number of expat pilots. Let's please let race and culture be speculations of last resort.
  - richtr 13y ago
    Absolutely right. I was bringing to the attention of the HN community a series of Korean airline crashes that occurred in the 1990s that can be directly attributed to this factor [1]. For the record, there are a number of countries worldwide that exhibit the same restricted cultural legacy. For example, there is also a High Power Distance ratio in a number Latin American and African countries [2]. See, for example, details of the crash of Colombian Avianca Flight 52 [3]. Whether this is a factor _in this particular incident_ is of course for the authorities to decide. Considering the provenance of this airline as being from a high power distance ratio country I felt this information might be relevant or at least of interest to others. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accid... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions_theory#Differences_between_cultures_on_the_values_dimensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52#Cause_and_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52#Cause_and_in...
nickpinkston 13y ago
Damn - I was just on OZ214 back in October coming back from Seoul...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rdl 13y ago
2 confirmed fatalities, and 60 people still unaccounted for, according to the SF fire chief in a press conference just now.
gt565k 13y ago
roughly 60 unaccounted for live coverage at http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live next news conference at 5:30 Pacific time, 8:30 EST
ddoolin 13y ago
I was supposed to be flying into SFO this morning from Seoul, though not on that flight (would've been AA flight 26). Suffice to say I had a surprisingly large number of people asking if I was OK.
shanev 13y ago
Korea's other major airline, Korean Air, has the 5th worst safety record among international airlines [1]. In that case, cultural issues was the problem: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-on-culture-cockpit-communication-and-plane-crashes/ http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-.... Wonder if there's any correlation here, but obviously it's too soon to tell. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accide...
sixQuarks 13y ago
I would think that SFO would have a video stream of all plane landings and takeoffs. In fact, it would be dumb if ALL airports didn't have this considering how cheap it is to install. Does anyone know anything about this?
- mwilcox 13y ago
  There's no doubt they'd have footage, but they'd be stupid to release it to the media while an investigation is being undertaken.
spullara 13y ago
It is ridiculous that a post so factually inaccurate is still the first post. A real failure of the HN comment voting mechanism.

358 points by robbiet480 13y ago

(latest info at bottom of comment) ABC reports it was coming from Taipei, linked forum says Taipei. Video of aftermath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFtmSybpuw&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFtmSybpuw&feature=youtu.be. Redwood City FD responding. Unknown amount of passengers. SFO FD using foam on entire plane. FAA has now shut down operations at SFO due to "disabled plane" 3rd alarm called, "red" alarm called. Multiple reports that fuselage is in multiple pieces. Tail is some yards away. FAA issues statement: "A Boeing 777 operated by Asiana Airlines crashed while landing at San Francisco International Airport." No further details. Asiana Airlines flight OZ214, Boeing 777, registration HL7742 http://t.co/bSgoVeggrU http://t.co/bSgoVeggrU Better picture: pic.twitter.com/JqLj9OAtzv #SFOFire Northfield IC, North Field Command, four engines and 3 ambulances inbound to aircraft, other units staging #CaFire @rafweverbergh: Confirmed with controller at SFO: "plane is broken in multiple pieces. (...) a hard landing" SOURCE: http://t.co/ghqoLpxfVM http://t.co/ghqoLpxfVM @scobleizer [http://twitter.com/rafweverbergh/status/353590307402694658 http://twitter.com/rafweverbergh/status/353590307402694658] @CarrieMantha: Thank God @OntarioHazards EMS reporting all passengers of the downed plane at #SFO are accounted for. Injuries but no reports of fatalities [http://twitter.com/CarrieMantha/status/353590343624691712 http://twitter.com/CarrieMantha/status/353590343624691712] @punkboyinsf: Redwood City Fire is classifying SFO plane crash as 3 alarm fire and level 8 mass casualty incident. via @lautenbach #YAL [http://twitter.com/punkboyinsf/status/353590933515804672 http://twitter.com/punkboyinsf/status/353590933515804672] @Emergency_In_SF: SFO AIR CRASH (update): crews report 48 patients have been rescued so far after 777 crashes on landing. Passengers still on burning plane [http://twitter.com/Emergency_In_SF/status/353591197144588288 http://twitter.com/Emergency_In_SF/status/353591197144588288] LIVE SHOT OF PLANE NOW AVAILABLE: @brianstelter: KTVU, Fox affiliate in San Fran, has a faraway live shot of the plane here: http://t.co/BXreHtWugm http://t.co/BXreHtWugm No anchored coverage yet. [http://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/353591320733941760 http://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/353591320733941760] Someone got a picture of the crash as it happened: @stefanielaine: just realized I have a picture of the actual crash. holy fucking shit. http://t.co/5TnOX96Gsi http://t.co/5TnOX96Gsi [http://twitter.com/stefanielaine/status/353591123958173696 http://twitter.com/stefanielaine/status/353591123958173696] @peterpham: 290 passengers on plane, 1 infant - San Francisco Fire and EMS Live Audio Feed http://t.co/ZoMhufPNMA http://t.co/ZoMhufPNMA via @Broadcastify [http://twitter.com/peterpham/status/353592842385494016 http://twitter.com/peterpham/status/353592842385494016] VERY UP CLOSE PICTURE FROM TWITTER: https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb

jcdavis 13y ago
The flight was Asiana 214 from Seoul: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214
austenallred 13y ago
Awesome reporting! Seriously, good job. I honestly believe that a collection of sources like this is the future of news; allow people to draw their own conclusions based on the first-hand content you can collect. Shameless plug: OK, that's actually what I've been building for a few months. We had to break it to finish building it (sorry, or i'd just show you), but our launchrock page is at http://grasswire.com http://grasswire.com if you want to have access when we launch
- untog 13y ago
  I'm not sure I agree. From those first pictures I saw (charred plane) I drew my own conclusion that a large number of people must have died. From the latest reports, it appears I was wrong. Sometimes we don't know enough to make meaningful conclusions without experts weighing in. Not to mention bias- first hand accounts are rarely impartial. In this instance there aren't any "sides" to take, but I'd bet that most of the photos flowing out of Egypt right now have an opinion behind them.
  - andrewlowell 13y ago
    It's true that our first hastily-drawn conclusions from not enough facts are mostly wrong, but I will say this: it's fascinating and for me, thrilling, to watch the truth about big events coalesce in real time as primary, grassroots-sources get compiled (and fact-checked!).
  - austenallred 13y ago
    That's fair, but I think I still disagree. If you are only looking at one source, sure, it can be confusing, but if you have a good collection of all of the first-hand sources really you are able to draw the same conclusion that any reporter might be able to. Right now we have basically outsourced the job of drawing conclusions from opinionated people to reporters. Given the right information I believe every person could do that. But I recognize that's not a belief held by many people. I've just been able to watch all of the reports come in for a while and feel like that's enough, if not better.

krenoten 13y ago

Sitting in a plane there now that was supposed to take off in 10 minutes. Hopefully there were no serious injuries. There's a big plume of smoke where the 777 is.

maximz 13y ago

Here are the most recent FAA Advisories: http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list.jsp?WhichAdvisories=ATCSCC&AdvisoryCategory=All&dates=Saturday%2C+07-06-2013&AirFlow=AirFlow&Gstop=Gstop&Gdelay=Gdelay&Route=Route&Other=Other http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list.jsp?WhichAdvisories=ATCS... And here are three relevant ones already published: * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=26&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=CDM+GROUND+STOP&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=26&adv_date... * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=27&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=SFO+DIVERSION+RECOVERY&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=27&adv_date... * http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=29&adv_date=07062013&facId=SFO/ZOA&title=CDM+GROUND+STOP&titleDate=07/06/13 http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis.jsp?advn=29&adv_date...

gdonelli 13y ago

Instagram: http://instagram.com/p/bb0mk0OK84/ http://instagram.com/p/bb0mk0OK84/

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

lesslaw 13y ago

Why is this HN relevant ?

blueprint 13y ago
SFO.
robbiet480 13y ago
SFO is the nearest airport to San Francisco and Palo Alto, I expect this will affect travel for people of startups coming back from vacation like myself. That's why.
- mseebach 13y ago
  TBH, if this was only interesting because some geeks might have their travel disrupted, it would indeed be off topic. Traffic jams and CalTrain disruptions would certainly be.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
Relevant for several reasons. The main one probably being that it's an airport a lot of HN members probably use. Also submission guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- biot 13y ago
  It seems to me this is a disaster they'd cover on TV news (thus off-topic) and it doesn't gratify my intellectual curiosity (thus not on-topic). Little different than a jackknifed semi on the highway that a lot of HN members probably use. Now a technical analysis of the factors leading to the crash would very much be intellectually gratifying and I look forward to seeing that posted on HN.
- peferron 13y ago
  Don't know about other people here, but I've actually taken Asiana Airlines #214 several times.
13y ago

CoachRufus87 13y ago

KSFO Tower Stream - http://www.liveatc.net/flisten.php?mount=ksfo_twr&icao=ksfo http://www.liveatc.net/flisten.php?mount=ksfo_twr&icao=ksfo

jnsaff2 13y ago
And the Fire Rescue frequency: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6336/web http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6336/web

sethbannon 13y ago

Someone who was on the plane says everyone seems OK: https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb

jka 13y ago
Sincerely hope so - it may be a little early to tell though, he likely didn't have visibility of the full cabin and it's hard to tell what things are like inside.
- ewang1 13y ago
  That's David Eun, a Samsung exec, so he was probably up front in biz class.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    the front section of the plane is theoretically the most dangerous part of the plane; survivors in plane crashes are most likely to come from just behind the wing.
    - Retric 13y ago
      That greatly depends on the type of crash. The added risk your talking about has a lot to do with nose down collisions.
      - ewang1 13y ago
        I'd factor in the fact that the people density is lower up front, probably aiding you in getting off the plane faster.
        sylvinus 13y ago
        There's no need to factor in anything, those statistics come from actual outcomes of past crashes.
13y ago

martingordon 13y ago

Tweet/photo from someone who was on the plane: https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801

danso 13y ago

A tweet from a purported passenger: https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 https://twitter.com/Eunner/status/353592664526028801 > I just crash landed at SFO. Tail ripped off. Most everyone seems fine. I'm ok. Surreal... (at @flySFO) [pic] — https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb

nashequilibrium 13y ago

It seems like everyone may be fine, i pray that they all are! https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bhickey 13y ago

I'm hearing more air traffic overhead than usual. I bet there are going to be a lot of diversions to SJC and OAK. http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSFO http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSFO

bryanh 13y ago

High quality close up photo from https://path.com/p/1lwrZb https://path.com/p/1lwrZb: https://pathakacdn-a.akamaihd.net/photos2/f36a5729-6db7-40db-9c98-99aa8b68df4c/original.jpg https://pathakacdn-a.akamaihd.net/photos2/f36a5729-6db7-40db...

51Cards 13y ago
What a phenomenal photo and speed of information. People are still exiting with their bags in hand, incredible. THIS is one of those moments when you realize how social media and mobile devices have changed the world.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- dba7dba 13y ago
  This is another reason events in Egypt is moving SO FAST. Instead of printing a poster decrying Morsy regime and hanging it on a wall in the dark, you just text your friends how you think Morsy sucks. And that's how the revolution got started.
- narsil 13y ago
  dba7dba: you've been hellbanned and your comments are marked [dead]. I would contact the admins about it, since I can't see why, based on your comment history.
Osmium 13y ago
I can't imagine the confusion that must have gone on when that happened, maybe it's shock or maybe people just underestimate the severity of their situation but correct me if I'm wrong... are there people in that photo actually carrying their bags off the plane? I can't quite comprehend that.
- justin66 13y ago
  The bottlenecks in their escape were the doorway and the crew's deployment of the inflatable slide. Rushing the door in a panic would have done nobody any good. In a situation like that, why wouldn't you grab your bag if it was readily accessible? It seems like healthy, rational behavior rather than a symptom of extreme confusion.

clarkmoody 13y ago

Reference photo of the plane, for comparison: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Asiana-Airlines/Boeing-777-28E-ER/2258365/L/ http://www.airliners.net/photo/Asiana-Airlines/Boeing-777-28...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

reeses 13y ago
I feel the same way but a) almost any civvies would not be able to help, b) there would be more people for emergency response to worry about, and c) families/friends would be worried sick and, unable to call, would be looking for any signs/info ASAP.
jedbrown 13y ago
The passengers exiting with wheeled luggage are a much bigger problem.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ben1040 13y ago
  Seriously. If you are ever posed with a situation where you must evacuate an aircraft, then GTFO and just leave your bags onboard. Do not do anything that could impede others' egress. You can get new stuff later, and the airline is likely to compensate you anyway (case in point, within days after US Air 1549 landed in the Hudson, the airline cut checks to the passengers to compensate for irretrievable belongings). You can't buy back your life or those of your fellow passengers.
  - jlgaddis 13y ago
    We don't know (yet) what happened. It could be that the passengers were standing around for a minute or two before being able to exit the plane. In the meantime, you're probably not hurting anything by reaching up into the overhead or under your feet and grabbing your bag.
    - SamReidHughes 13y ago
      You are, you can't fit as many people in the aisle that way.

cinquemb 13y ago

Incidents like this make me wonder about interesting problems people are currently solving/or will have to address with commercialized space travel. Say if this had happened at a docking port to a space station, regardless of the severity, it would have been fatal for everyone (assuming people in transit wouldn't be in some kind of suit meant to protect them from the vacuum of space/or radiation inside of a ship that is supposed to do that).

jlgreco 13y ago
Ever since Soyuz 11 depressurized after/while detaching from Salyut 1, everyone has used rescue suits during launch/landing. These rescue suits are not good for EVA as they don't provide the same mobility as EVA suits (better mobility while not in a vacuum, little to no mobility while in a vacuum), but they provide life support for limited amounts of time. Radiation is really something you don't worry about until everybody is safely repressurized. Edit: Chris Hadfield talks about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gaFXZWhp4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gaFXZWhp4k
- cinquemb 13y ago
  Do you think (or are) people would be required to wear these suits on commercialized flights? As an aside, I wish I could be involved with anything dealing with space and exploration… it all just seems so fascinating and so much potential not only for economic development, but even to understand who we are in the context of what is or may be around us.
  - furyofantares 13y ago
    Why can't you?
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      I'm on a less than traditional path right now in life, and I'm not sure who I would even reach out to that would be in a position to listen and give me a chance. But I'm trying, but probably not in the most direct way… and I guess pg said it best himself: "If you want to take on a problem as big as the ones I've discussed, don't make a direct frontal attack on it"

mittermayr 13y ago

Isn't it fascinating, how everyone is still exiting with their bags in hand? In all that chaos, I would probably just freak out and run. But apparently, a lot of them were picking up their bags before leaving the plane. Crazy. Glad so many got out though.

VladRussian2 13y ago
many of these people are foreigners, ie. visas, passport, cash/cards, etc... It is night and day difference between having your passport+visa available for immigration control and the alternative.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    no. If everybody just rushed to the exit - it would bottle-necked and throughput would dramatically drop like it frequently happens in the known cases of club fires for example. Instead it dictates specific, much calmer, tempo: me/family alive and whole, neighbour alive and whole, bag with passport, lets move...
    - shabble 13y ago
      There's an interesting report on the A380 certification evacuation test[1] of ~870 people in 78 seconds. Granted, that was in a hanger with volunteers who knew it was going to come (but not when). Serious fuselage damage might put enough exits out of commission to heavily bottleneck, though (although I think there's supposed to be some significant safety margin on those as well). [1] https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-a380-evacuation-trial-full-report-everyone-off-in-205793/ https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-a380-evacu...
- eshvk 13y ago
  My ex once asked me what I would miss the most if my house burnt down. I immediately said it would be the documents. I would probably worry about this even after I got an American passport.

mililani 13y ago

Ugh...my wife is deathly afraid of flying. She is in Canada now and flying back to SFO next week. I hope she doesn't hear about this.

AndyKelley 13y ago
Point out that the fact that this is newsworthy underscores how rare of an occurrence it is.
- arrrg 13y ago
  I doubt that really helps with those types of fears … It’s possible to have a complete and rational understanding of the situation and still feel fear. That, at least, frequently happens to me.
- LaGrange 13y ago
  My friend with flight anxiety actually got it from researching airplane safety. While they did learn about probabilities n'all, they also learned about way too many details, after which every single sound seems like the oscillating electron pump failure on Molvania flight 52317 where nobody survived the spontaneous atmosphere exit. It's not exactly rational, it's your silly brain suddenly deciding the specific probability of gruesome death went from epsilon to 99%, and anxiety going through the roof. Solution: sleeping pills, apparently, or generally anti-anxiety and good contact with flight staff (thus ability to find "safe feeling" seats). In the specific case.
  - jarfcl 13y ago
    I would recommend trying private airplane lessons (on a calm day) Being in control of an airplane helps a lot, and that feeling may transfer to commercial flights.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      I suspect this is what makes people feel that a car is safer: they themselves are in control, and can believe that they'd miraculously dodge any crashes through skill and luck. I don't know if that sense of control is transferable, though; paranoid backseat drivers are still a thing.

jcdavis 13y ago

ATC audio from the crash http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3 http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3

ceejayoz 13y ago
I know they train for it, but the coolheaded professionalism there is remarkable - tower, other planes, all of them.
- jlgaddis 13y ago
  Agreed. It was like it didn't even phase the controller. Wow.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  That's why airlines like to get pilots with military experience. They are exposed to more crazy scenarios in training and work and generally keep a cool head better under stress.
  - duncan_bayne 13y ago
    Hmmm - but: military pilots are also known (especially in some cultures) for an over-strong respect for hierarchy, resulting in a willingness to go along with dangerous instructions. Also, at least some military pilots are trained to have a higher risk acceptance than civilian pilots. Personally, I'd be very happy having an ex-military pilot flying me around; I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons. But do be aware that the cons exist.
    - coopdog 13y ago
      Actually Korean pilots (civilian) are also known to have too strong a respect for hierarchy. I remember seeing an episode of air crash investigating where that was officially reported as a factor, so it isn't even just the military where that can be a risk.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

starpilot 13y ago

If it turns out it was a mechanical failure, and not pilot error we should credit them for a successful crash landing.

justin66 13y ago
Is there a pilot error that can account for the tail ripping off that plane?
- starpilot 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstrike Eyewitness, standard caveats apply: > “The tail was too low. Instead of coming in flat it was coming in at a 45-degree angle, with the tail far too low,” http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19323541-boeing-777-crashes-while-landing-at-san-francisco-airport?lite http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19323541-boeing-7...
  - justin66 13y ago
    Thank you. No kidding about witness reports. At least one news report has claimed that the plane flipped over, and people are just throwing the word "cartwheel" around.
  - marvin 13y ago
    There is no sense in speculating about the cause until the official report is ready, though. Things that seem obvious immediately can easily turn out to be wrong. Unless we're just speculating for fun.
coldcode 13y ago
Looks like he landed too steep and short of the end of the runway, which is a jetty. Likely ripped off the tail which would have likely bounced the rest of the airframe down onto the engines ripping them off. At least the fuel was low since it was the end of the flight.

Patrick_Devine 13y ago

The flight path into SFO goes right over my house in Palo Alto. It's funny, I was wondering why there had been no planes flying overhead today, but hadn't realized what had happened until I saw this post. I hope everyone is OK.

frozenport 13y ago

Is this a case for or against automatic airplane control?

jpiasetz 13y ago
It's highly unlikely any answer based on this crash is going to be accurate for at least a year.
agilebyte 13y ago
Free flight was supposed to have happened already. But there are obstacles. As for ATCs if you do not make use of a skill frequently, you atrophy. When you are suddenly thrown in the middle of an emergency, you perform badly. We can't have "mall cops" watching computers doing air traffic control. People do not like automation that much either. Consider the fact that underground trains have drivers even though technically they are not needed. And then there are the technical aspects... So I do not think that this particular crash would bring much new to the table.
- dmacvicar 13y ago
  Nuremberg, Germany here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_U-Bahn#ATC_and_driverless_trains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_U-Bahn#ATC_and_driver... We have driverless trains without drivers at all. There is some staff getting into random trains to check for problems (like problematic passengers, etc). Interesting thing: the migration is going gradually, there are trains with drivers running on the same line than driverless trains, and IIRC this was never done before.
- lgeek 13y ago
  > Consider the fact that underground trains have drivers even though technically they are not needed. The London DLR[0] has been automated since it was opened in '87. It travels on the surface too. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway
  - agilebyte 13y ago

dnm 13y ago

Flight path comparison today vs yesterday. https://twitter.com/sbaker/status/353611787750494208 https://twitter.com/sbaker/status/353611787750494208

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

obituary_latte 13y ago
What is the point of this comment? Are you mad that a collective of people found this worthy of the front page? That people live and work in SF? I don't understand your outrage. There was a major incident and people are talking about it. There are millions of other websites you could be spending your time on. Why spend it here if you find the communities actions so objectionable?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - jaxb 13y ago
    You aren't forced by anyone to read anything here.
Kiro 13y ago
You can't downvote submissions, only comments.

bmmayer1 13y ago

Audio from the air traffic control tower: https://www.dropbox.com/s/04qqum874iz4ijr/KSFO-Tower-18%3A22Z.mp3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/04qqum874iz4ijr/KSFO-Tower-18%3A22...

josscrowcroft 13y ago

Does this really need to be on HN? Just because it's in SFO? Everyone will already have heard about this on, I don't know, any other news channel

yuliyp 13y ago
260 people thought yes, so it's up and staying there for a while
- hyperbovine 13y ago
  It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who just don't understand how a site like this works.
bluedino 13y ago
If you follow recent articles, HN'ers don't watch the news channels.

bfung 13y ago

I know this is exciting news and all, but: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Hacker News Guidelines What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. I'd say trying to rationalize that this story is relevant on HN by saying "startups use SFO" is a stretch. I'd hope that people taking flights out actually check with the airport first before checking HN.

zhoutong 13y ago
FWIW, I was in the airport waiting for my flight to SFO, and I took out my laptop and found this on HN. The counter staff only informed passengers of the news one hour after the HN post.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tankenmate 13y ago
From what I saw it impacted before the runway. This brings back memories of the British Airways 777 that came down early due to loss of power to both engines (Speedbird 38, Beijing to London). The cause of that was ice blocking the fuel filters which starved both engines. The thing to check here was what altitude the plane was flying at for most of the flight, and what temperature it was at that altitude along the flight path.
- markdown 13y ago
  That icing issue has since been fixed and so is irrelevant to this crash (according to CNN).
sliverstorm 13y ago
It's interesting in the context of the issues with the 787, which HN has shown plenty of interest in. It could have nothing to do with the 787, but show me lots of articles about the 787 and I'm going to be tangentially interested in the 777. It is also interesting in the context of HN when you think of the people who talk about how airlines need to be disrupted. It serves as a reminder of the stakes- you can't necessarily jump into the airlines business shooting from the hip and hoping for the best.

mgadams3 13y ago

Some crazy geo based Instagram photos if you search for SFO and click near the crash site Http://Instahood.meteor.com

mgadams3 13y ago

Some crazy geo based Instagram photos if you search for SFO and click near the crash site Http://Instahood.meteor.com

hrdinsky 13y ago

Sheryl Sandberg was scheduled to be on this flight but switched to a United flight [1] The now famous photo from the ground is by David Eun, a Samsung Executive [2]. Coincidentally at a time when there are talks of a Samsung / Facebook partnership [3] [1] https://www.facebook.com/sheryl/posts/10152997724435177 https://www.facebook.com/sheryl/posts/10152997724435177 [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/davideun1 http://www.linkedin.com/in/davideun1 [2] http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-leans-on-samsung-for-mobile-partnership-report-says-20130705,0,7256503.story http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook...

richtr 13y ago

While we are looking at reasons why this crash happened it may be worthwhile to consider Malcolm Gladwell's suggestion in his book 'Outliers' that Korean cultural legacy, where the High Power Distance ratio between bosses (the pilot) and their underlings (such as the co-pilot) were responsible for a series of Korean Air crashes in the 1990s. "In addition to weather and pilot fatigue, he blames those crashes on crew members whose cultural legacy made them too deferential to communicate clearly that the plane was about to crash" http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-on-culture-cockpit-communication-and-plane-crashes/ http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-...

jarfcl 13y ago
It may be worthwhile to read a commercial pilots comments after reading Outliers: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety (A more reasonable explanation that would have been uncovered with basic research is that foreign airline captains have less pilotmim command time.)
markdown 13y ago
Asian and Middle-eastern airlines have a huge number of expat pilots. Let's please let race and culture be speculations of last resort.
- richtr 13y ago
  Absolutely right. I was bringing to the attention of the HN community a series of Korean airline crashes that occurred in the 1990s that can be directly attributed to this factor [1]. For the record, there are a number of countries worldwide that exhibit the same restricted cultural legacy. For example, there is also a High Power Distance ratio in a number Latin American and African countries [2]. See, for example, details of the crash of Colombian Avianca Flight 52 [3]. Whether this is a factor _in this particular incident_ is of course for the authorities to decide. Considering the provenance of this airline as being from a high power distance ratio country I felt this information might be relevant or at least of interest to others. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accid... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions_theory#Differences_between_cultures_on_the_values_dimensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52#Cause_and_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52#Cause_and_in...

nickpinkston 13y ago

Damn - I was just on OZ214 back in October coming back from Seoul...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rdl 13y ago

2 confirmed fatalities, and 60 people still unaccounted for, according to the SF fire chief in a press conference just now.

gt565k 13y ago

roughly 60 unaccounted for live coverage at http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live next news conference at 5:30 Pacific time, 8:30 EST

ddoolin 13y ago

I was supposed to be flying into SFO this morning from Seoul, though not on that flight (would've been AA flight 26). Suffice to say I had a surprisingly large number of people asking if I was OK.

shanev 13y ago

Korea's other major airline, Korean Air, has the 5th worst safety record among international airlines [1]. In that case, cultural issues was the problem: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-on-culture-cockpit-communication-and-plane-crashes/ http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-.... Wonder if there's any correlation here, but obviously it's too soon to tell. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_incidents_and_accide...

sixQuarks 13y ago

I would think that SFO would have a video stream of all plane landings and takeoffs. In fact, it would be dumb if ALL airports didn't have this considering how cheap it is to install. Does anyone know anything about this?

mwilcox 13y ago
There's no doubt they'd have footage, but they'd be stupid to release it to the media while an investigation is being undertaken.

spullara 13y ago

It is ridiculous that a post so factually inaccurate is still the first post. A real failure of the HN comment voting mechanism.