4 ms·

Although I was a generally calm student (I am introverted and not into causing mayhem or attracting attention), I never copied from the blackboard, don't did my

by speeder 13y ago

Although I was a generally calm student (I am introverted and not into causing mayhem or attracting attention), I never copied from the blackboard, don't did my homework, slept during classes, or instead kept drawing, or later writing ASM code or toying with physics formulas, or I just outright spent my time chatting about video games with whoever was nearby. Every time I had a new teacher, my parents were called into the school, and warned that I had some sort of problem (and my parents went into full denial hell not of course my child is not crazy... later I found out I DO probably have Aspergers, seemly inherited from the father of my mother), my parents reply were: "Alright, wait until the tests, and if he fails, THEN you can call us." Unfortunately to those teachers, and me, I did not failed... Meaning I had to endure them, and they had to endure me. Specially because I completely ignored their lessons, and in the time of the tests I answered correctly but in my own way, this was specially bad related to hard sciences because I would use formulas I invented on the spot, and I wrote in totally random patterns, forcing teachers to spend LOOOOOONG time to figure what I did, also my calligraphy is horrible, thus all my teachers hated reading my tests, yet they could not just zero them, because I always passed, so if they did that, they knew I would send the test to their superior and would get them punished. So yes, I can totally relate to the article. Also I STILL don't sit still, right now as I type I am vibrating one of my legs. (I guess this is a way to keep energy burning considering I stay sitting the entire day).

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Ah, to have grown up in an education system where homework and in-class participation aren't counted as some huge part of the grade!
- speeder 13y ago
  class participation and whatnot counted, and I had not a problem with that, when a teacher asked a direct question and I was not sleeping deeply enough (if I was half-sleeping and heard the question I woke up) I would usually be the first to reply. Only later I figured this was bad idea (here in Brazil at least, the norm is to noone ever try to reply to the teacher, as a kind of weird social convention, and since I always replied, even while half-asleep, I quickly attracted negative attention, I was frequently involved in fights I did not started with the less performing boys... also girls sometimes pulled some horrible stuff, like spreading rumors or attempt to frame me)
  - freehunter 13y ago
    In high school (in the early 2000s, in the US), class participation didn't mean just answering a question when called on, in my school most of the time it meant preemptively offering an answer without being called on. You got graded on having the initiative to answer without the teacher asking you directly.
    - speeder 13y ago
      If someone tried that here in Brazil everyone would get a zero. Specially, because they link someone posted about Richard Feynman is still very true, most students here don't know jack shit beside what they memorized, the genius wannabes quickly get stomped when they say crap and others laugh at them. Schools here are best teach you how to be conforming to social expectations... at best. Also I like to point out that the reason I did not failed at tests, was not the school, it was that being curious as I am, most tests ended asking stuff I already had learned somewhere else (usually reading a book), I still have as hobby read random books, encyclopedias, science sites... And I had that hobby before wikipedia existed (in my bedroom there was 5 different enciclopedias, including one focused on history and ancient religion, and another on botany, zoology and chemistry, also I have all the books that my dad read during when he was getting his civil engineering degree)
      - sanoli 13y ago
        Just to give an example of what speeder means by "students here don't know jack shit": Over the years I have told friends and peers that, in a perfect vacuum and without taking into account the curvature of the earth, a bullet fired from a gun that's completely level and another bullet dropped from the same height, at the same time, will hit the ground at the same time. Everyone disagrees, says that of course the bullet from the gun will take much longer to fall etc, etc. Now, this is all people who went to private schools and had three (yes, three) years of physics (because if you go to high school here and your school is not a shitty public one, you will have physics for 3 years. You can't choose). I even argued with a friend of mine who is a geologist and works at Brazil's huge oil company Petrobras. You might say "oh, a couple of people, that's anecdote". Yes, it is, but it is just a couple of people because after the fifth I just said "screw it", no one learns physics here.
- bambax 13y ago
  Exactly. In France it used to be that finals counted for 100% of the grade (everything else for zero). That's the thinking behind the "bac" that marks the end of high school: you either have it (weighted average >= 10/20) or you don't, but what your teachers thought about you is irrelevant (except in special cases where your average is 9.8 for example). Everything else used to work the same as the "bac": you study, or you don't, during the year, and at the end of the year a big exam tested whether you know anything or not. Before my time it was even stronger; my mother (who's 80 and studied in the 1950s) was able to get her law degree without ever going to law school (she was a full-time secretary and studied law at night). She was a very fine lawyer and won most her cases (including a few for me ;-) This is an incredibly fair system. What matters is, can you answer the questions on the test (and BTW, questions used to be real questions that you had to answer using full sentences and actual reasoning, never MCQs). But things are changing. Things have always been changing, but now they're changing faster. People complain that setting up exams is costly whereas the marginal cost of tracking in-class participation is nil (since the teacher is already there anyway). This is very silly and very unfair. What in-class participation measures is conformity/ability to repeat what the teacher wants to hear, NOT competence or knowledge. Rating - or paying any attention to - in-class participation is confusing the means with the end. The end is knowledge/personal development. Listening to the teacher while sitting still, or "partipating" (?) is but one of the means to achieve this goal. In this month's "Who's hiring?" thread I came upon an ad from "ClassDojo", the stated mission of which is to "manage behavior in the classroom" by "easily award[ing] feedback points for behavior in class in real-time, with just one click of your smartphone or laptop". This upset me in more ways than I can describe. Teachers should seek to ENGAGE students, not "manage their behavior". Modern schooling seems to aim at training donkeys for a circus show, using treats provided by the likes of ClassDojo. This is as far removed from "education" as possible; education is about autonomy of the mind.
mahyarm 13y ago
To be honest, it's probably good you fidget constantly just for blood flow. Sitting still all day gets you airplane traveler afflictions like deep vein thrombosis.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  Even better than fidgeting is surely getting up and moving around.

by speeder 13y ago

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

Ah, to have grown up in an education system where homework and in-class participation aren't counted as some huge part of the grade!

speeder 13y ago
class participation and whatnot counted, and I had not a problem with that, when a teacher asked a direct question and I was not sleeping deeply enough (if I was half-sleeping and heard the question I woke up) I would usually be the first to reply. Only later I figured this was bad idea (here in Brazil at least, the norm is to noone ever try to reply to the teacher, as a kind of weird social convention, and since I always replied, even while half-asleep, I quickly attracted negative attention, I was frequently involved in fights I did not started with the less performing boys... also girls sometimes pulled some horrible stuff, like spreading rumors or attempt to frame me)
- freehunter 13y ago
  In high school (in the early 2000s, in the US), class participation didn't mean just answering a question when called on, in my school most of the time it meant preemptively offering an answer without being called on. You got graded on having the initiative to answer without the teacher asking you directly.
  - speeder 13y ago
    If someone tried that here in Brazil everyone would get a zero. Specially, because they link someone posted about Richard Feynman is still very true, most students here don't know jack shit beside what they memorized, the genius wannabes quickly get stomped when they say crap and others laugh at them. Schools here are best teach you how to be conforming to social expectations... at best. Also I like to point out that the reason I did not failed at tests, was not the school, it was that being curious as I am, most tests ended asking stuff I already had learned somewhere else (usually reading a book), I still have as hobby read random books, encyclopedias, science sites... And I had that hobby before wikipedia existed (in my bedroom there was 5 different enciclopedias, including one focused on history and ancient religion, and another on botany, zoology and chemistry, also I have all the books that my dad read during when he was getting his civil engineering degree)
    - sanoli 13y ago
      Just to give an example of what speeder means by "students here don't know jack shit": Over the years I have told friends and peers that, in a perfect vacuum and without taking into account the curvature of the earth, a bullet fired from a gun that's completely level and another bullet dropped from the same height, at the same time, will hit the ground at the same time. Everyone disagrees, says that of course the bullet from the gun will take much longer to fall etc, etc. Now, this is all people who went to private schools and had three (yes, three) years of physics (because if you go to high school here and your school is not a shitty public one, you will have physics for 3 years. You can't choose). I even argued with a friend of mine who is a geologist and works at Brazil's huge oil company Petrobras. You might say "oh, a couple of people, that's anecdote". Yes, it is, but it is just a couple of people because after the fifth I just said "screw it", no one learns physics here.
bambax 13y ago
Exactly. In France it used to be that finals counted for 100% of the grade (everything else for zero). That's the thinking behind the "bac" that marks the end of high school: you either have it (weighted average >= 10/20) or you don't, but what your teachers thought about you is irrelevant (except in special cases where your average is 9.8 for example). Everything else used to work the same as the "bac": you study, or you don't, during the year, and at the end of the year a big exam tested whether you know anything or not. Before my time it was even stronger; my mother (who's 80 and studied in the 1950s) was able to get her law degree without ever going to law school (she was a full-time secretary and studied law at night). She was a very fine lawyer and won most her cases (including a few for me ;-) This is an incredibly fair system. What matters is, can you answer the questions on the test (and BTW, questions used to be real questions that you had to answer using full sentences and actual reasoning, never MCQs). But things are changing. Things have always been changing, but now they're changing faster. People complain that setting up exams is costly whereas the marginal cost of tracking in-class participation is nil (since the teacher is already there anyway). This is very silly and very unfair. What in-class participation measures is conformity/ability to repeat what the teacher wants to hear, NOT competence or knowledge. Rating - or paying any attention to - in-class participation is confusing the means with the end. The end is knowledge/personal development. Listening to the teacher while sitting still, or "partipating" (?) is but one of the means to achieve this goal. In this month's "Who's hiring?" thread I came upon an ad from "ClassDojo", the stated mission of which is to "manage behavior in the classroom" by "easily award[ing] feedback points for behavior in class in real-time, with just one click of your smartphone or laptop". This upset me in more ways than I can describe. Teachers should seek to ENGAGE students, not "manage their behavior". Modern schooling seems to aim at training donkeys for a circus show, using treats provided by the likes of ClassDojo. This is as far removed from "education" as possible; education is about autonomy of the mind.

mahyarm 13y ago

To be honest, it's probably good you fidget constantly just for blood flow. Sitting still all day gets you airplane traveler afflictions like deep vein thrombosis.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago
Even better than fidgeting is surely getting up and moving around.