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Julian Assange: Edward Snowden is ‘marooned in Russia’
- andrewcooke 13y agois there any way for germany to help him out? that seems, to me, his best chance at the moment. they have the political clout and they're pissed off...
- brudgers 13y agoI doubt the Germans will side with the Russians in preference to the US. And the Russians are preventing Snowden from leaving because it suits their interests, as would some possible range of deals to turn him over to the US. I'll add that if I were Snowden, I would probably avoid long-standing US allies like Germany - particularly those full of US military personnel.
- reinhardt 13y agoCrazy idea: applying for asylum in Russia.
- fatjokes 13y agogermany being pissed off at america is like siblings being pissed off at one another. some critical articles in germany and a few harsh words from merkel and it'll blow over. they're not going to make it into a real issue by taking in snowden.
- stock_toaster 13y agoWhen governments[1] complain about spying, I imagine it is also often a case of crocodile tears, as I assume many of them also spy on foreign non-citizens with regularity. [1]: Blanket statement about governments in developed countries. Not sure about Germany specifically.
- Nursie 13y agoI like to think it's just possible that some modern countries don't pull this stuff and are genuinely shocked at just how much espionage we UK and US folks indulge in. This may be wishful thinking.
- stock_toaster 13y agoI would hope there are many that don't spy on their own citizens with such regularity, but I find myself being less optimistic about spying on non-citizens...
- gurkendoktor 13y agoExactly. Both our chancellor and our president are rabidly pro-US. Our Minister of Justice is probably the only person in the government that cares about this at all.
- mindcrime 13y agoWhatever happened with Iceland? There was some noise about them offering help at one time... has that option gone completely off the table or what? Has there been some news on that, that I missed?
- dagw 13y agoI don't think Iceland was ever really on the table. Other than an MP from a small party making noise, Iceland hasn't officially said anything supportive Snowden, at least that I've seen. The only official statement the Icelandic government has made is that a person must be in the country to apply for asylum, and until he's in the country there is nothing for them to comment on.
- kzrdude 13y agoThe old guard is back at the helm in iceland. The coalition that governed before their crash. The recent pledge to become a media and anti-corruption heaven is mostly shunned by them.
- Tichy 13y agoDid I miss anything? Why is Germany supposed to be pissed off? I think Obama only visited last week?
- ethanbond 13y agoWe wiretap the hell out of their citizens.
- tobiasu 13y agoYes, this little issue is why Germany will risk the US as an export market. Just to piss off Obama, because das Merkel is sad the constitutional court prevented her party from implementing very similar measures first. Please be a little realistic. The ruling parties, with the exception of the Minister of Justice, have been so quiet, it's making the news. Mrs. Schnarrenberger (FDP) is not representative of her party, let alone the government.
- Tichy 13y agoAh OK - somehow I didn't register that as "news" :-) Edit: Why the downvotes? As a kid, 30 years ago, I would frequently pass by the Echelon antennas. I was told they were for spying on communication. So I thought it was a given for decades that the US (and others) are spying on German businesses. The technology might have changed, but not the facts. Wikipedia on Echelon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
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- mindcrime 13y agoSo, the moral of this story, as I see it, is something like: Start the process of creating a false identity (or two or three or ten) right now, if you think you may ever be in a position to need to flee across international borders. Obtain multiple sets of credentials, including passports and related documents. I know this isn't an easy process, but it's at least theoretically possible. Neil Strauss gets into it a bit in his book Emergency[1], and there are dozens of other books[2][3][4][5][6] out there on how to obtain a new identity, forge documents, etc.. And if it takes a little "black hat" hacker action as well... well, so be it. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-Will-Save/dp/0060898771/ref=sr_1_1 http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-Will-Save/dp/00608... [2]: http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Back-Alley-Man-Construction/dp/1581602685 http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Back-Alley-Man-Construction/dp... [3]: http://www.amazon.com/Acquiring-New-ID-Easily-Technology/dp/0873648943/ref=pd_sim_b_4 http://www.amazon.com/Acquiring-New-ID-Easily-Technology/dp/... [4]: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Identity-Changer-Privacy-Personal/dp/1581604319/ref=pd_sim_b_3 http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Identity-Changer-Privacy-Person... [5]: http://www.amazon.com/The-I-D-Master-Identity-Change-Professionals/dp/1559502290/ref=pd_sim_b_6 http://www.amazon.com/The-I-D-Master-Identity-Change-Profess... [6]: http://www.amazon.com/Make-Drivers-Licenses-Other-Computer/dp/1559501944/ref=pd_sim_b_8 http://www.amazon.com/Make-Drivers-Licenses-Other-Computer/d...
- ebiester 13y agoIt doesn't work when your pictures are on the front page news.
- mindcrime 13y agoMaybe, maybe not. Not everybody pays attention to the news... and it's not that hard to make yourself look different enough to evade the average Joe... like the guy/gal at the airport, earning minimum wage working as a ticket counter clerk, or TSA agent (or other national equivalent). Even the border police types can't examine everybody under a microscope. If you're a guy, grow a beard (or shave yours), dye your hair a different color, put on glasses (or take off yours), and you probably stand a decent chance of escaping notice. Of course, this all requires some foresight, as you'd have to have ID documents done with the "disguised" appearance... but that's half my point - now is the time to start working on getting alternate identities, if you think there's even a slight chance you might need it.
- baby 13y agoThis is the first mistake Edward Snowden has done, although leaving HK could have been one, but going through Russia... Especially without passport, that's like a gift. I foresee a very bad future for this man, and this is infuriating.
- rgbrenner 13y ago(speculation follows.. feel free to ignore) I wonder if Snowden was aware his passport was canceled when he left HK. HK says they did not receive the cancellation in time to prevent him from boarding the plane to Russia. So it's entirely possible he left HK thinking he had a valid passport and would be able to leave Russia... only learning otherwise once he arrived there.
- ars 13y agoMuch more likely is that wikileaks assured him "Don't worry, it'll be fine." Wikileaks is much more concerned with getting lots of publicity than with actually getting him someplace safe (otherwise why would they tell everyone in advance what they are going to do). He had to know that canceling his passport would be the very first thing the US would do.
- rgbrenner 13y agoYou do have to wonder what "plan" snowden had... he was identified publicly on June 9th, but didn't leave HK until the June 23rd using the incredibly creative idea of leaving on a plane using his real passport/ID. Makes me think there was no plan at all -- he was just planning to stay in HK originally... http://news.yahoo.com/timeline-u-hong-kong-communication-snowden-000522295.html http://news.yahoo.com/timeline-u-hong-kong-communication-sno...
- baby 13y agoMy take is that he panicked. He knows he's researched, and might be killed, and he reads what's going on on internet, and he just starts to freak out. He has to start freaking out. In the end he's just convinced he's going to lose if he stays in HK, he cannot stand that anymore and decide to cancel his "plan" and leave HK.
- gojomo 13y agoSo it all went to hell once Wikileaks got involved.
- ars 13y agoYah. I was very surprised when I heard he listened to them. He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. (Their stated goals, and their actual goals do not match.) And they have a rather poor track record at actually getting asylum. They are too public with the process. Instead of just doing it they like to talk about first, to make sure everyone knows just how much they are snubbing the US in the process.
- tedks 13y agoWikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. Lately, the US has been very obviously attacking Wikileaks, but they've been around since long before the Collateral Murder videos, and they've pissed off China, Scientology, the Virgin Islands, and plenty others. The focus on the US was just the result of getting a vast amount of access in the form of Manning.
- cpeterso 13y ago> He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wasn't Hong Kong prepared to give him up to the US?
- adventured 13y agoBy most accounts, that process could have taken years. Hong Kong has an extraordinarily slow legal process, and there was an endless line of lawyers willing to take up his defense case. At this point, if he's not very very lucky, he'll be back in the US against his own will in a matter of weeks or months.
- rdl 13y agoI'd rather fight in HK for months/years, then be very publicly turned over to USG (so they can't just disappear to Gitmo), ideally close to election season, for a public trial, than be in the direct custody and control of Russia or China (or Iran or North Korea or a few other countries...). He should not have taken Wikileaks advice and support; sticking to Hong Kong lawyers, EFF, and maybe other whistleblowers like Binney would have been a lot better for everyone (including US national security, which is helped by ending illegal spying and by not compromising legitimate (to the US) spying on foreign governments).
- ars 13y agoSo for the second time in a row Ecuador is not actually serious about granting asylum. They are happy to pay lip service, but when it comes to action, they are not so willing.
- jorgeseagull 13y agoWhat do you want them to do? Bomb the Russians?
- ars 13y agoLet him fly without a passport.
- cwp 13y agoIt's not that simple. The airline has to agree to let him fly without a passport, and assurances from Ecuador that he'll be allowed to enter might not be enough to convince them to to that. Also, there probably aren't any direct flights from Moscow to Quito, so he'll need cooperation from some other country, and possibly another airline as well. That's conceivable, but might not work out, and Snowden probably wouldn't know that it's not working out until he was in handcuffs.
- ferdo 13y agoNot to be the eternal skeptic, but has anyone seen any pictures of Snowden in the Hong Kong or Moscow airports?
- TillE 13y agoDidn't Putin himself say he's there? It's quite a stretch to think that the Russian government was blatantly lying about this. It would be a very strange move that gains them little or nothing. I'm willing to entertain the theory that Snowden left Moscow in the past couple days, though. It is pretty strange that no one has seen him.
- ferdo 13y ago> Didn't Putin himself say he's there? Trusting the word of any politician or world leader is a risky biz. > It is pretty strange that no one has seen him. The most talked about man in the world was hanging around two major international airports and no one got a picture. Color me skeptical.
- lostlogin 13y agoTrusting the word of a politician in one thing, trusting Putin is quite another. Calling Putin a politician is an insult to both politicians and dictators. And don't forget Putins past life, he is well versed in the spy versus spy game.
- s-phi-nl 13y agoAnother reason why going to Russia might not have been the best idea.
- eatitraw 13y agoAFAIK -- no. There are speculations that he may be outside of transit zone, in some hotel under guard(still without crossing border): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323873904578571603100389138.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732387390457857... This explains absence of photos.
- jpdoctor 13y agoI assume the Russians want him to apply for asylum there? What I can't figure out: Why wouldn't the US prefer to have him in Ecuador rather than Russia (ie, by canceling his passport)? because it would be a helluva lot easier to apply pressure to Correa than Putin.
- Ygg2 13y agoBecause Russia is easier to be manipulated. Their oligarchs have accounts in US (or in US influenced countries) or US could force sanctions upon Russia (without much fuss). Putin is in a pickle - he doesn't want to appear weak before the US in eyes of his people, but he doesn't want to piss off US because above mentioned things.
- agotterer 13y agoHis passport was cancelled before he left Hong Kong and arrived in Russia. Hong Kong said they didn't receive the update or something. I imagine they were happy to just have him out of their country.
- aj700 13y agoRather than rant. !Just search twitter for 'operation IGNORE Assange' which I have been running since he went in there!
- Ultron 13y agoSnowden is a symbol and a sign of the future. If the US government gets their hands on Snowden, and gets their way, I am absolutely certain America will plunge into an even darker era of deception and thought control. Even now, most Americans are too brainwashed to care.
- iy56 13y agoYes, everyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed. That's a real healthy attitude to take.
- 3327 13y agoSO the airlines will not sell him a ticket, couldn't a wealthy individual fly him out on a private jet in theory?
- verroq 13y agoThe host country has the accept his arrival. After this wealthy individual bribed the FSB to let go of Snowden.
- vinceguidry 13y agoI think Tom Morello offered to do just that...
- kyle_martin1 13y agoLet's assume Snowden is caught and is up for trial. The article mentions that there is more confidential data to be released and it has been distributed to insure it's eventual release. Do you think WikiLeaks would threaten to release the information if Snowden is convicted of any crimes? If this threat were to be made, I'd imagine the USA would convict him anyways and WikiLeaks releases all the information. And then all hell breaks loose. Or perhaps the USA negotiates with WikiLeaks & Snowden? Also, where's Anonymous in all of this? You'd imagine they'd have their hands all over this, right?
- lawnchair_larry 13y agoFor those wondering about why a private/charter jet is not really feasible: http://blog.privatefly.com/edward-snowden-fly-private-jet-moscow-ecuador http://blog.privatefly.com/edward-snowden-fly-private-jet-mo... Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
- brown9-2 13y agoSince he has been there for about a week now, it seems incredibly unlikely that the Russian government hasn't been able to get their hands on all the classified material and laptops he took with him. Flying to Russia without a good plan for step two was an epic mistake.
- b6 13y agoI think Snowden and/or Wikileaks would have thought of that before leaving HK. If the Russians have anything, it's encrypted blobs.
- VladRussian2 13y ago>If the Russians have anything, it's encrypted blobs. i'd be really surprised if Snowden hadn't been made an offer by Russia he'd have hard time to refuse - give the info to Russia or you're on the next non-stop flight to New York. Dealing with Russian government ... after not liking to deal with US ... somewhat illogical.
- WildUtah 13y agoit seems incredibly unlikely that the Russian government hasn't been able to get their hands on all the classified material and laptops he took with him Most likely they built a special-purpose $5 machine to decrypt all his information. And that's why we haven't seen any photos of him since he left HK. It looks like a foolish mistake to have left China at all instead of applying for asylum there. China would be a good place for someone like Snowden to hide out from US authorities and live a good, full life. Ecuador and Russia are both very likely to exploit him themselves or turn him over to the US when the next administration comes in. But maybe he has something up his sleeve. I would not be surprised to hear that he's not in Moscow at all.
- fixxer 13y agoAny bets on when/if the Russians trade Snowden for one of their own?
- ramblerman 13y agoSince we don't know all the details this is merely speculative, but I wonder if leaving Hong Kong was Assange's idea. In which case it seems he might just have royally screwed Snowden (albeit unintentionally).