6 ms·

This is complete hyperbole and you know it. Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Where are the mass forced migrati

by jsonne 13y ago

This is complete hyperbole and you know it. Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Fraudulent elections? A one party state? The fact that you made this comment on a public forum is evidence enough that we are nowhere even close to living in a police state.

pfortuny 13y ago
Yes, this is hyperbole, like the poor kid's. And just because you had to answer it and reflect a little on it, it has served its purpose. Exactly. So: we are not exactly there but do you not see the writing on the wall? Being afraid of making a joke is hideous. And being afraid because of the police is, honestly, horrendous. EDIT: did I say anything wrong? Enjoy the downvotes.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  >did I say anything wrong? Yes you did. You're basically pulling the puppetmaster defense of 'I said something incorrect but you reacted so I win'. People tend not to like that argument.
Alex3917 13y ago
"Where are the secret police whisking away 'dissenters' in the middle of the night?" You mean like the 40-50,000 swat team raids against non-violent political dissenters that the US government carries out each year, almost always in the middle of the night?
- pfortuny 13y ago
  Even more: you can get phone-swatted, is it really believable?
  - downandout 13y ago
    That is an interesting thought. At any moment, an officer that can't get a search warrant could anonymously call 911 from a burner cell or pay phone and report a violent situation. That alone is enough for a full-scale paramilitary invasion of the target's home or office.
    - anaptdemise 13y ago
      Doesn't even have to be violent. Just as easy to roll an informant to claim drugs dealings at a residence. Drugs seem to be easiest way to get a no-knock raid, even if your mayor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor's_residence_drug_raid http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayo...
- thetrb 13y ago
  So more than 100 a day? Where do you have that number from?
  - Alex3917 13y ago
    http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-p...
    - DanBC 13y ago
      So, non-violent drug users (criminals), rather than political dissenters?
      - Alex3917 13y ago
        Only if you don't consider civil disobedience to be a form of political dissent, or if you don't consider drug crimes to be a form of civil disobedience.
will_brown 13y ago
I honestly can not tell if you are being sarcastic or not... >Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Think IRS targeting; think of the secret targeted kill lists (not only can you not know who is on it, you can not know the criteria to get on it). >Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Check the farms where you will find field hands who are likely undocumented immigrants. Or check the slums, no need to physically relocate anyone when you can economically relocate them. >Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Thank goodness there is no argument here. However, we do have indefinite detentions and targeted kill lists without due process/judicial review. Maybe not mass executions, but one targeted killing by the government is to much for my tastes. >Fraudulent elections? Um...2000 Bush v. Gore? Florida? Certainly no known fraud, but an election decided by a single state and a few hundred votes, where thousands went missing for a period of time, not to mention the "faulty ballots" in Florida. I would say this is more like MLB during the steroid era, sure the new records still stand, but there is a asterisk next to the names. >A one party state? You have a choice between red or blue, either way you get budget deficits, a surveillance state, Gitmo, war of terror(opps *on), ect...
- lukifer 13y ago
  Read up on Greg Palast's investigation of voting machines. There's substantial evidence of vote tampering in 2000 and 2004.
  - specialist 13y ago
    VoterAction.org proved in court that Kerry won New Mexico in 2004, even though its electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Just the tip of the iceberg.
  - adventured 13y ago
    And the regular, massive voter fraud throughout major Democrat strongholds like Philadelphia. There's little question BOTH parties are engaging in routine election fraud.
    - 13y ago
StandardFuture 13y ago
You are referring to things such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor ...but we are not talking in terms of building a model showing the equivalence in replica between each state's government and actions (actually Stalin was a very 'unique' dictator, the same as Hitler, in relation to ANY other leader). We are talking in terms of ideology behind a governments actions e.g. a complete disrespect for individual freedoms granted by the constitution. Tha kid was placed in jail for uttering a joke. Come on.
downandout 13y ago
The US incarceration rate is higher than Russia's during the height of the KGB. That's right: while the political goals and tactics are different and somehow palatable to a pliable US population, the net results of our current system are actually worse than those of most oppressive regimes in the history of the world. What's worse is that there is no end in sight. The NSA scandal has shown the the people who make it into elected office these days are all about the same. US elections are nothing more than political theater designed to delude the population into thinking that it can make choices, when in fact the end result will be the same regardless of whom they choose. Who needs rigged elections in this environment?
taylodl 13y ago
Don't need secret police when the kids are whisked off to jail in broad daylight, out in the open. Secret police are only required when one wants to hide such grievous acts. Quite the opposite is the case now - our leaders our proud they're Fighting Terrorists.
enraged_camel 13y ago
You must be living in some sort of alternate reality dreamstate where these things don't happen routinely. Allow me to attempt to wake you up: Eternal NSA surveillance. The TSA. No-fly lists. Secret prisons. Guantanamo Bay. Election rigging. Being targeted by IRS. The percentage of population that is in prison (much higher than USSR at the height of its power). I could go on. Out of everything you stated, the only thing we don't have is mass executions of political prisoners. But the fact is, the differences between the USA and USSR are only on a matter of scale. And that scale is growing at an alarming rate.
- rdouble 13y ago
  Where are the secret prisons, anyway?
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    Almost all of them are overseas, outside of US territory and jurisdiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_site...
  - bussierem 13y ago
    Also, why are they still considered "secret" if random people on HN are discussing them candidly?
    - alanh 13y ago
      Because their locations are or were undisclosed, and obviously not even everyone here has heard of them. They exist. Edited in reply They are explicitly said to exist in Hollywood propaganda film Zero Dark Thirty (2013). No, this is not proof, although it is evidence. If the establishment wants us to believe they exist, is that not troubling enough?
      - Arnor 13y ago
        FYI hollywood propaganda films aren't usually the best citations... EDIT: spelling counts...

by jsonne 13y ago

pfortuny 13y ago

Yes, this is hyperbole, like the poor kid's. And just because you had to answer it and reflect a little on it, it has served its purpose. Exactly. So: we are not exactly there but do you not see the writing on the wall? Being afraid of making a joke is hideous. And being afraid because of the police is, honestly, horrendous. EDIT: did I say anything wrong? Enjoy the downvotes.

Dylan16807 13y ago
>did I say anything wrong? Yes you did. You're basically pulling the puppetmaster defense of 'I said something incorrect but you reacted so I win'. People tend not to like that argument.

Alex3917 13y ago

"Where are the secret police whisking away 'dissenters' in the middle of the night?" You mean like the 40-50,000 swat team raids against non-violent political dissenters that the US government carries out each year, almost always in the middle of the night?

pfortuny 13y ago
Even more: you can get phone-swatted, is it really believable?
- downandout 13y ago
  That is an interesting thought. At any moment, an officer that can't get a search warrant could anonymously call 911 from a burner cell or pay phone and report a violent situation. That alone is enough for a full-scale paramilitary invasion of the target's home or office.
  - anaptdemise 13y ago
    Doesn't even have to be violent. Just as easy to roll an informant to claim drugs dealings at a residence. Drugs seem to be easiest way to get a no-knock raid, even if your mayor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor's_residence_drug_raid http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayo...
thetrb 13y ago
So more than 100 a day? Where do you have that number from?
- Alex3917 13y ago
  http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-p...
  - DanBC 13y ago
    So, non-violent drug users (criminals), rather than political dissenters?
    - Alex3917 13y ago
      Only if you don't consider civil disobedience to be a form of political dissent, or if you don't consider drug crimes to be a form of civil disobedience.

will_brown 13y ago

I honestly can not tell if you are being sarcastic or not... >Where are the secret police whisking away "dissenters" in the middle of the night? Think IRS targeting; think of the secret targeted kill lists (not only can you not know who is on it, you can not know the criteria to get on it). >Where are the mass forced migrations of ethnic minorities? Check the farms where you will find field hands who are likely undocumented immigrants. Or check the slums, no need to physically relocate anyone when you can economically relocate them. >Where are the mass executions of political prisoners? Thank goodness there is no argument here. However, we do have indefinite detentions and targeted kill lists without due process/judicial review. Maybe not mass executions, but one targeted killing by the government is to much for my tastes. >Fraudulent elections? Um...2000 Bush v. Gore? Florida? Certainly no known fraud, but an election decided by a single state and a few hundred votes, where thousands went missing for a period of time, not to mention the "faulty ballots" in Florida. I would say this is more like MLB during the steroid era, sure the new records still stand, but there is a asterisk next to the names. >A one party state? You have a choice between red or blue, either way you get budget deficits, a surveillance state, Gitmo, war of terror(opps *on), ect...

lukifer 13y ago
Read up on Greg Palast's investigation of voting machines. There's substantial evidence of vote tampering in 2000 and 2004.
- specialist 13y ago
  VoterAction.org proved in court that Kerry won New Mexico in 2004, even though its electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Just the tip of the iceberg.
- adventured 13y ago
  And the regular, massive voter fraud throughout major Democrat strongholds like Philadelphia. There's little question BOTH parties are engaging in routine election fraud.
  - 13y ago

StandardFuture 13y ago

You are referring to things such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor ...but we are not talking in terms of building a model showing the equivalence in replica between each state's government and actions (actually Stalin was a very 'unique' dictator, the same as Hitler, in relation to ANY other leader). We are talking in terms of ideology behind a governments actions e.g. a complete disrespect for individual freedoms granted by the constitution. Tha kid was placed in jail for uttering a joke. Come on.

downandout 13y ago

The US incarceration rate is higher than Russia's during the height of the KGB. That's right: while the political goals and tactics are different and somehow palatable to a pliable US population, the net results of our current system are actually worse than those of most oppressive regimes in the history of the world. What's worse is that there is no end in sight. The NSA scandal has shown the the people who make it into elected office these days are all about the same. US elections are nothing more than political theater designed to delude the population into thinking that it can make choices, when in fact the end result will be the same regardless of whom they choose. Who needs rigged elections in this environment?

taylodl 13y ago

Don't need secret police when the kids are whisked off to jail in broad daylight, out in the open. Secret police are only required when one wants to hide such grievous acts. Quite the opposite is the case now - our leaders our proud they're Fighting Terrorists.

enraged_camel 13y ago

You must be living in some sort of alternate reality dreamstate where these things don't happen routinely. Allow me to attempt to wake you up: Eternal NSA surveillance. The TSA. No-fly lists. Secret prisons. Guantanamo Bay. Election rigging. Being targeted by IRS. The percentage of population that is in prison (much higher than USSR at the height of its power). I could go on. Out of everything you stated, the only thing we don't have is mass executions of political prisoners. But the fact is, the differences between the USA and USSR are only on a matter of scale. And that scale is growing at an alarming rate.

rdouble 13y ago
Where are the secret prisons, anyway?
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  Almost all of them are overseas, outside of US territory and jurisdiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site#Suspected_black_site...
- bussierem 13y ago
  Also, why are they still considered "secret" if random people on HN are discussing them candidly?
  - alanh 13y ago
    Because their locations are or were undisclosed, and obviously not even everyone here has heard of them. They exist. Edited in reply They are explicitly said to exist in Hollywood propaganda film Zero Dark Thirty (2013). No, this is not proof, although it is evidence. If the establishment wants us to believe they exist, is that not troubling enough?
    - Arnor 13y ago
      FYI hollywood propaganda films aren't usually the best citations... EDIT: spelling counts...