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U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mindcrime 13y agoMeanwhile, the petition to pardon him[1] only needs ~8000 more signatures to require a response. [1]: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...
- wl 13y agoThe response they've given in the past to pardon petitions isn't much of a response at all. I expect a similar non-answer here. Cf. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-cant-comment-bradley-manning https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-cant-commen... https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-can’t-comment-marc-emery https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-can’t-comme...
- zachgersh 13y agoThat's actually really sad that they will blatantly not comment on a high profile petition.
- graue 13y agoThose petitions aren't terribly high-profile: they're sitting at 6619 and 8249 signatures each, versus nearly 100K for the Snowden petition.
- mpyne 13y agoWhy do people on here simultaneously ask for "no selective enforcement!" but then when it's their guy in trouble, ask for special favors?
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoNo matter. It's a gesture. A hundred thousand people giving them the bird.
- dllthomas 13y agoIf we get that to 300 million, they'll have to do something.
- mindcrime 13y agoI don't expect much of a response either, but I still think it sends an important message, if this gets over the threshold (and it looks like it will).
- dllthomas 13y agoFrom the Bradley Manning link: "the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government." This is a petition to pardon, which is solely the power of the President. They can't - with any legitimacy - claim that commenting on this would be stepping on someone else's toes. Apparently, they "[do] not comment, however, on individual pardon applications," according to the Marc Emery. I hope they will make an exception in this case, as this instance speaks to much broader policy. Regardless, sign the petition!
- ceejayoz 13y ago> This is a petition to pardon, which is solely the power of the President. They can't - with any legitimacy - claim that commenting on this would be stepping on someone else's toes. They can, as at this point he hasn't convicted. Promising to pardon (or declining to do so) in advance of trial would indeed be stepping on the legal system's toes.
- gaadd33 13y agoThat hasn't seemed to stop the executive branch from pardoning people who have been charged but not convicted of anything. (Off the top of my head Marc Rich comes to mind, probably Nixon and a few others too)
- dllthomas 13y agoNixon wasn't even charged, as I understand it, and there have been others.
- davesque 13y agoWell, if they do that, then we'll just have to start another petition. Or organize a protest. We'll have to do something to indicate that we won't stand for it. At the end of the day, they are employed by us.
- Fauntleroy 13y agoFor some reason I can't seem to access many of the *.whitehouse.gov subdomains. Is anyone else having this issue?
- dfc 13y agoDo you have a super picky DNSSEC resolver? What happens when you do a `host petitions.whitehouse.gov`
- kryten 13y agoOdd: I looked at the page an it said 7023 signatures required. Refreshed it to see if there was any delta and now it says 7041 signatures required. So 18 signatures have disappeared?
- brwr 13y agoDon't worry, the NSA will take care of everything! They wouldn't remove signatures from a petition they disagree with just because they can.
- edmundhuber 13y agohttps://github.com/WhiteHouse/petitions https://github.com/WhiteHouse/petitions Looks like they're running mongodb. Maybe they just forgot to set the write concern.
- senorerik 13y agoIf you add a random query string to the end of the url you'll get the latest signature count. You will have to change it each time you want to see the current count. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD?PutRandomCharactersHere https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...
- fragmede 13y agoInterestingly, according to that article, he hasn't been charged with treason, 'just' espionage, theft and conversion of government property. Someone more qualified than I can elaborate, but treason is a much harder crime to prove than espionage (like murder vs. manslaughter). Edit: According to the video link provided by spdy, the crime needs to exist in both systems (ie Hong Kong and the US) in order for an extradition request to be considered valid. Treason, with a similar burden of proof, does not exist in Hong Kong, and thus could not be charged. Is the US attorney's office allowed to rescind the charges of espionage and re-charge him with treason after he's been extradited to the US?
- discostrings 13y agoThe people using the term "treason" are either using it ridiculously or only to characterize their opinions of his actions. From the Constitution: > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
- sigzero 13y agoRight, I think it would have been supremely hard to get him for treason.
- spdy 13y agoTreason doesn't exist in Hong Kong's basic law. http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/06/13/china-support-for-snowden.cnn.html http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/06... around 2:20 he talkes about this taken from a reply by daywalker
- wisty 13y agoCan you imagine a jury of 12 all believing that what he did was not in the interests of his country?
- DanielBMarkham 13y agoSo now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this completely in the bud before prosecutors get rolling, and several other ways of notifying our elected representatives that going down this path is unacceptable. These are political charges, and as the governed we should stand up to the people who are supposed to be working for us and demand that they be dropped. Immediately.
- B0Z 13y agoDoes anyone else smell "Friday Night News Dump"?
- jlgreco 13y agoYes, though it is important to keep in mind that 40% of all sickdays are taken on Mondays or Fridays.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoYes, I am surprised at how quiet they've been this week. Must've grown tired of having every new denial answered with a new document showing them to be lying again.
- 13y ago
- sigzero 13y agoNot surprising at all really.
- codex 13y agoIt looks like this charge can carry the death penalty because it involves "communications intelligence". From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794: "(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined in section 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent of the United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large-scale attack; war plans; communications intelligence or cryptographic information; or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy."
- spdy 13y agoNow the states he can move to just went up. Death penalty: Many countries, such as Australia, Canada, Macao, New Zealand, South Africa, and most European nations except Belarus, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out.
- skwirl 13y agoThe U.S. would waive the death penalty to get him back from any of those countries, as they regularly do. I seriously doubt there is any chance they would seek it, anyway.
- outside2344 13y agoI think we have to march on this one and be loud. For San Francisco, we should show up in force somewhere - is Tuesday too soon to plan something - say show up in force at Union Square at 8pm?
- fady 13y agoi'm down. i work close to union square. should we create a meetup? let me know. i'm down. fadysfca@gmail.com
- sneak 13y agoWe rallied in Union Square the Monday after he revealed himself at noon. Fifty people showed up. This is a huge deal on HN. But it's simply business as usual for most people.
- subway 13y agoThe problem with marching in SF is nobody takes marches on SF seriously -- something is being protested daily.
- fady 13y agoyou made a good point, but you never know unless you try. i'm happy to take an hour out of my time for this man.
- aspensmonster 13y agoEspionage is punishable by death. I sincerely hope Snowden finds asylum somewhere safe --Iceland perhaps-- as the Department of Justice has made it perfectly clear that this patriot is no longer welcome here.
- GabrielF00 13y agoThe only civilians executed for espionage in the US were the Rosenbergs in 1953 and that is widely seen as an overreaction that occurred in the context of the hysteria of the early Cold War. Only three people have been executed by the Federal government for any crime since 1963. It is incredibly unlikely that Snowden would be executed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unite...
- rayiner 13y agoYou see, when "slippery slope fallacy" mode is fully engaged, information like that has no relevance. "They used it in 1953, they can do it again!"
- nsns 13y agoRight, not to mention that US citizens have already been executed without trial on foreign soil.
- ataggart 13y agoGiven that the political (un)likelihood of the death penalty was already addressed by GabrielF00, it's not clear to me how "slippery slope fallacy" is a valid dismissal when espionage is punishable by death and has been applied.
- cdash 13y agoI don't think it really matters, as if life in prison is much better than the death penalty.
- rdouble 13y agoI have a feeling we're never going to see the rest of the data Greenwald supposedly has.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoWhy? I doubt Snowden expected anything different.
- rdouble 13y agoGreenwald/The Guardian won't release it out of fear of being brought up on similar charges. I don't know why they haven't released it already, unless it's just more of the same sort of vaguely incriminating powerpoint presentations.
- nostrademons 13y agoNews cycle. If they release too early, it just fatigues everyone and makes them get bored of the issue. I'm guessing that Greenwald is sitting on many of the documents and waiting for people to forget about Snowden, and then he'll release another one to keep the issue (and The Guardian) in the news. He maximizes both the political impact and the eyeballs going to his employer in this way.
- LoganCale 13y agoThat won't stop Greenwald. And if you haven't noticed, they already have released even more incriminating documents, including a signed order from the Attorney General authorizing multiple exemptions to the ban on collecting and viewing data from U.S. citizens.
- cgag 13y agoIt lets the government keep lying itself into corners.
- rdouble 13y agoThat's valid.
- ericgoldberg 13y agoWe created a pro-Snowden collection of shirts, stickers, and hats if you want to show your support. There's a link to donate to his cause too. http://www.wishplz.com/product-collections/bDRzO6c7Stw0vSVh2ITOwz8YqWQbHNGC http://www.wishplz.com/product-collections/bDRzO6c7Stw0vSVh2...
- lulzcraft 13y agoSomeone is already profiting off this? All proceeds should go to his defense team, Goldberg.
- staunch 13y agoFor anyone else who thinks what he did was right: it's our job to make sure he gets pardoned. He did his part.
- alan_cx 13y agoI like that idea. Clearly the US government have to prosecute him with something. Cant encourage it and all that. And presumably he leaked this info knowing full well that the US government would have little choice but do this. So, I suppose the perfect out come would be: go back to the US, get charged, go to court, admit guilt, get sentenced, then hopefully a President can pardon him. Now, how one can ensure such an out come, I have zero idea. All assuming he gets to go to proper civilian court with a jury. If its a military, kangaroo, secret, closed, court.... no way. Yeah, I like the idea, I just cant see it working or having a viable chance. Pity.
- coolhandluke 13y agoI would like to volunteer to serve on his jury.
- charonn0 13y agoWhy is he being charged in the Eastern District of Virginia when the alleged crime was perpetrated in Hawaii? Shouldn't any prosecution be under the original jurisdiction of the District of Hawaii/9th Circuit? Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed[...]
- jdp23 13y agoFrom the article: The complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications.
- charonn0 13y agoYes, I read that part. But the Sixth amendment says nothing about where the defendant's employer is headquartered or the convenience of the prosecutors, judges, etc. To me, the choice of Virginia as the original jurisdiction is clearly unconstitutional. Also, Rule 18 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure states: Unless a statute or these rules permit otherwise, the government must prosecute an offense in a district where the offense was committed.
- paulasmith 13y agoHonestly is anyone surprised? I think we all saw this coming. Question is, how will HK, or even China for that matter, respond?
- surrealize 13y agoThey charged him on his birthday? Damn, that's cold. After what the NSA did to Thomas Drake (dragging him through legal hell for four years, which in the end resulted in no jail time or fines), you have to wonder how personal some of the legal maneuvering is.
- belorn 13y ago> The anti-secrecy group Wikileaks has held some discussions ... What is an anti-secrecy group? It sound like something out of Discworld series, where a group is tired of being discovered changed the door sign from "secret group" to "not-secret group". In the world of Discworld, it would likely work too. Is it so hard to write a group behind the whistleblower website WikiLeaks, or the more correct term: A group that runs a publishing website for whistleblowers called WikiLeaks?
- gohrt 13y agoWikiLeaks published many secrets that were not whistleblows. It's an anti-secrecy site.
- belorn 13y agoSource? What information has been published which isn't a whistleblow leak? Bradley Manning isn't exactly charged with telling about someones secret crush, or where they hide to smoke, or where that secret stash of weed is.
- unimpressive 13y ago"The same night two prominent Kadet leaders, Professor F. Kokoshkin, and Dr. A. Shingarev, were murdered in a hospital by a group of Bolshevik sailors. When Lenin heard of the ensuing protest meetings held by the Social Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks, he said cynically: 'Let them protest, let them bubble over with rage, let them rave some, sigh some, drink a lot of tea and talk until dawn; then they will surely soon fall asleep.'" - A history of Soviet Russia, George Von Rauch, Fifth Revised Edition, 1967 I can't help but think of that every time I read one of these threads. Especially when people ask for things like the dismissal of the prosecutors, in complete disregard that this agenda comes straight from the White House.
- mcantelon 13y agoYup. Since 9/11 the US state has been working hard to consolidate its domestic power, creating a domestic counter-insurgence force (the DHS) to circumvent the Posse Comitatus Act and a command-structure for military action within the continent (NORTHCOM), among many other complementary developments. Wherever the agenda originated, both political parties are following it and the power consolidation is unlikely to stop until completion barring some disruptive influence.
- torito28 13y agoI highly doubt anything will happen to him. This is the same story over and over again.
- wavesounds 13y agoYou're kidding right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Detention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Detention
- redthrowaway 13y agoThe non-print, non-mobile version: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-cha... This actually seems to be a pretty big problem with the web right now. We've been balkanized into mobile and desktop versions of sites, to the point where sharing one with the other inevitably pisses someone off. This article is all but unreadable on desktop, and I suspect the same would be true in reverse. The point of the web is to have multiple clients getting the same info from a single source. This doesn't work if mobile and desktop clients are served different versions of the same site, and in effect are barred from sharing with eachother.
- georgemcbay 13y agoI sort of agree with you... but then OTOH when it comes to virtually any newspaper/media site I almost always prefer viewing the mobile version to the "full site" (even when browsing on a traditional computer), because the mobile versions tend to be less stuffed up with garbage ads, interstitials, social networking buttons and other such shit-fuckery.
- nbouscal 13y agoI found it to be perfectly readable on desktop, and was actually really happy to not have all of the clutter of the regular site.
- guelo 13y agoIf Hong Kong grants the "provisional arrest warrant" it could mean that Snowden will spend years fighting extradition from inside a jail cell. And it could be the end of any hopes of asylum in Iceland.
- jonlucc 13y agoDo we know that he's even still there? I know he said he'd be there, but I'm not sure.
- hughw 13y ago"...said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the case." Leakers leaking about another leaker.
- crazygringo 13y agoCan someone explain how he can be charged with espionage? Is there some meaning of that which covers leakers of information, like leaking the Pentagon Papers, when it's to the press (and not to another government or company)?
- zwegner 13y agoClassic Greenwald on twitter: "Anyone have interest in a criminal investigation to discover which "officials" leaked news of the sealed indictment? http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-cha... "
- malandrew 13y agoPersonally, I would want him to stand trial on two conditions: (1) He and Glenn Greenwald are allowed to have an open, public televised debate with President Obama, the congressmen that are members of the intelligence committee, and the judges that sit on the FISC court. This would be done in 3 sessions Frost/Nixon style. (2) He is promised fair just treatment, that is made public so that he cannot be subjected to solitary confinement and other torturous conditions.
- genwin 13y agoHe'd need to get low-cost bail. To the US gov't, fair treatment is solitary confinement, waterboarding, etc.
- malandrew 13y agoYeah, but as I said in another comment, it is common practice for certain countries to only extradite someone in capital cases if the country requesting extradition guarantees that they won't seek the death penalty. He could appeal to Hong Kong to only allow extradition on the condition that solitary confinement and other cruel and unusual punishments cannot be used.
- RexRollman 13y agoYes, because the most criminal thing you can do is reveal criminal activity by the government.
- jsmeaton 13y agoLet's assume this charge is legal and correct for a moment. Why aren't the newspapers (guardian and the post?) and their writers/editors also being charged? Why aren't the newspapers having their paypal and all their bank accounts frozen? We live in very scary times as far as I'm concerned. The US is prosecuting its own citizens for standing up and saying "what you're doing to the rest of the world is not OK". But if you're a non-US citizen doing the same you just get thrown in Gitmo. There's outrage about what is being done domestically, but the rest of the world seem to have no way of protesting. As an Australian I should be safe from all of this - but our Government, no doubt, is piggy-backing on everything the US is doing. No one is safe.
- _delirium 13y agoW.r.t. why the Guardian isn't also being charged: While the act of leaking classified information is a crime, publishing classified information leaked to you by someone else isn't a crime. Here's a law-review article discussing that: https://www.law.upenn.edu/institutes/cerl/conferences/ethicsofsecrecy/papers/reading/Stone.pdf https://www.law.upenn.edu/institutes/cerl/conferences/ethics...
- foobarqux 13y agoExcept the government has recently taken the view that journalists are co-conspirators and therefore criminals.
- Jayschwa 13y agoSnowden presumably signed some contract or took some oath when he got his clearance, which he violated when he leaked info. The newspapers never made such promises. I don't think Snowden should be punished, but I can see why there might be a distinction with respect to prosecution.
- Andrew_Quentin 13y agoA private contract can not make you guilty of criminal offences.
- jneal 13y agoSnowden is, and will forever be, a patriot in my eyes. Our government (in the US) takes away more and more of our civil liberties and constitutional rights with each passing day and I'm personally tired of it.
- mililani 13y agoMore and more over the past several years, I've wondered what has become of this country. I mean, in my 39 years of life in the U.S., I don't think there was ever a time where I thought, this country has gone to the pits. And, not only is it the the government, it's the U.S. Citizens. These people are placated to the point that if you don't take away their celebrities and entertainment, you could literally shit on their mothers and they probably would just take it. Pretty disturbing times we're living in.
- mkhattab 13y agoI disagree. To "shit on their mothers" would actually motivate those who are placated and apathetic to act and mobilize. In my mind, only very few persons would take to the streets and sacrifice their livelihoods and personal convenience for abstract ideas and principles. Case in point, Edward Snowden. Until the effects of corruption has reached, in a literal sense, the doors of most Americans, we might see citizens act and begin to stand for abstract ideas such as privacy, due process, etc. But I think they would only continue until it becomes most inconvenient for them. I guess this is a cynical way of looking at people but maybe I'm not in a good state of mind at the moment.
- mehmehshoe 13y ago"The 30-year-old intelligence analyst revealed himself June 9 as the leaker in an interview with the Guardian" Happy birthday Ed!
- mtgx 13y agoGreenwald: "The Obama DOJ just charged its 7th leaker under "espionage" statute - total for ALL prior presidents: 3" https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/348202448437002240 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/348202448437002240
- anigbrowl 13y agoA predictably meaningless 'statistic' from Greenwald. For context, how many other leakers were there in the past who were not charged?
- Andrew_Quentin 13y agoSince 1917? I'd think quite a few
- ausjke 13y agoI hope Hongkong will be protecting him, or he can live in Iceland peacefully afterwards. He is doing that for all of us ordinary people in my opinion. This is also extremely embarrassing for US gov and the president, who were blaming Chinese for network attacks and acting as the innocent victim. I now doubt the integrity of our leaders, they're simply liars in this regard, how can I trust them in the future for whatever they're going to say.
- mtgx 13y agoTime to take it to the streets on July 4th: http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth "Restore the Fourth is a non partisan group of concerned citizens working to restore privacy and fourth amendment rights. We are planning nationwide protests in over 100 locations on July 4th."
- threeseed 13y agoI really wonder when people are actually going to wake up, understand how the system works and spend their efforts lobbying politicians instead of meaningless protests.
- yolesaber 13y agoHow does one lobby a politician, logistically speaking? Campaign donations? Genuinely curious.
- hindsightbias 13y agoI'd suggest leaving your cell phone at home
- peripetylabs 13y agoThe Chinese authorities will hold him until they feel he has given them all he knows, then quickly extradite him to the US. At that point he will probably try to get to Europe. If he makes it, his appeal to those governments on humanitarian grounds may be weakened by the fact the first country he picked practices capital punishment far more than the US (more than every other country in the world combined): http://www.amnesty.org/en/death-penalty/death-sentences-and-executions-in-2012 http://www.amnesty.org/en/death-penalty/death-sentences-and-... He could have fled to Europe in the first place just as easily. For example, US citizens are exempt from visa requirements for short stays (90 days) in France -- la Patrie des droits de l'homme -- from where he would have had direct access to the ECtHR...
- kinghajj 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Hong_Kong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Hong_Kong And there's the whole moratorium currently in place against extradition in HK right now, and they have a British-based judicial system that takes FOREVER (just like ours!), and have an exemption in their extradition treaties for political crimes. HK != PRC.
- sneak 13y agohttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-n... Snowden: "Leaving the US was an incredible risk, as NSA employees must declare their foreign travel 30 days in advance and are monitored. There was a distinct possibility I would be interdicted en route, so I had to travel with no advance booking to a country with the cultural and legal framework to allow me to work without being immediately detained. Hong Kong provided that. Iceland could be pushed harder, quicker, before the public could have a chance to make their feelings known, and I would not put that past the current US administration." He was not charged yet when he went to HK.
- gesman 13y agoCharged with "conversion of government property" ? Meaning conversion to something [finally] useful?
- coldcode 13y agoHmm perhaps he will meet a drone face to face and never face a trial.
- olefoo 13y agoThe fact that Holder and Obama chose to drop their charges into public view smack in the middle of the friday night news blackout shows that they lack confidence and feel weak in the face of negative public opinion. We are entering into the seminal stages of a struggle for the 21st Century; will the future be defined by unaccountable power? Will we all live in the Panopticon with the sole exception of the ODNI or whatever Cabal is the inner circle of the Intelligence Community? Will the US (and the world) be ruled by secret laws negotiated as "trade treaties"; that give corporate organizations greater power than any legislature accountable to the citizenry? Snowden's revelations are merely one set of secrets that we deserve to know. There many more, and every one of those secrets deserves exposure. We, the people of earth; deserve to know what is being done to us by our leaders. When a government has so profoundly violated the people's trust as ours; questioning it's legitimacy is... legitimate.
- shire 13y agoThis thing is moving fast should reach 100k before july 9 for sure. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD?at93 https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...
- sevenatenine 13y agoThe government obviously needs to set a precedent by charging Snowden. Even though what the government is doing is controversial and many people support Snowden, there might be somebody else down the line who thinks, "If Snowden was able to do it, then I can too because I believe this thing I'm exposing is wrong." Of course, massive public outrage over what the NSA is doing could make it a moot point and put the focus on the government. But like many things, this isn't a one sided issue and many people are indifferent or support the NSA. The media is asking "How should we feel about this?" and any white house petition will likely get a weak answer reinforcing the government's decision.
- stmartin 13y agoHope it was worth it, Snowden. Good luck in jail.
- bayesianhorse 13y agoYou know spys... bunch of bitchy little girls...
- jusben1369 13y agoThey were always going to charge him if only to discourage future Snowden's.
- paullik 13y agoThe irony, Snowden being charged with espionage by the country that spies everyone...
- nthj 13y agobut TERRORISM and NATIONAL SECURITY
- lazyjones 13y agoI suppose this makes it crystal-clear that in the eyes of Washington, the people of the USA are the enemy. Now everything suddenly makes more sense.
- dschiptsov 13y agoNothing to see here. Govt need to create a public process with a severe penalty in order not to create a precedent. The same type of prosecution as in Khodorkovsky or Pussy Riot cases in Russia - to clearly signal to others - don't do it again, so govt will do everything that is possible. Sometimes I think that being a major in, say, English literature isn't that useless as it seems to be.))
- nullc 13y agoI suppose this certifies the authenticity of the released claims, for those who have been continuing to deny it: If the documents weren't real he'd just be a liar and lying in the media isn't generally a crime in the US.