5 ms·

Reading some of the comments on that blog post, I left thinking: Am I a terrible person? I just don't see what's wrong with this project, and I certainly don't

Reading some of the comments on that blog post, I left thinking: Am I a terrible person? I just don't see what's wrong with this project, and I certainly don't see the link between it and "sexual violence" – where is Kickstarter making this connection? Say what you will about the seduction community, my very brief and infrequent encounters with it have been largely positive and I left thinking that they were a generally respectful, if a little bit misguided, group. There's some of their terms and techniques I don't like, such as "negging", but there's things like that in virtually every community that I don't like. Certainly not sexually violent.

goldins 13y ago
No? "Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances."
- shawabawa3 13y ago
  The author's response: http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape. Doesn't seem very rapey when you consider this is after several dates and they are alone together. He also says over and over again "If she says no, stop immediately".
deong 13y ago
Grabbing a woman's hand and forcing her to touch your exposed penis is, I think, sexual violence by almost any reasonable standard.
- garethadams 13y ago
  If a girl is already in a private, intimate setting with you after you've met her a few times – like that part of the guide relates to – then sex probably isn't too much of an unreasonable assumption. Of course that counter-article cherry-picked quotes from all over the guide and threw them together to make it sound like these were all things you should do on first meeting someone
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  It really really depends on the context and how you define "force". This doesn't even come close to mild sado maso. A kiss can be sexual assault, especially against minors. But even strangling (which I don't do and never did to a woman) can be part of consential sex. It's really sensitive subject. Let's not talk about fifty shades of gray... "Consent" isn't discussed enough. For example prostitution is widely seen as consential, despite tons of evidence that prostitution hardly ever is a conscious, free career choice, and rape is rape no matter how much you pay to the pimp...
  - anaptdemise 13y ago
    >For example prostitution is widely seen as consential, despite tons of evidence that prostitution hardly ever is a conscious, free career choice, and rape is rape no matter how much you pay to the pimp But you are entering the realm of misogyny again. The, "Oh, no one would wilfully chose this profession society finds immoral, they must be a victim of happenstance." It is a difficult thing to get around now days.
    - bayesianhorse 13y ago
      No. I'm not saying "no woman wilfully chooses". What I meant was that there is tons of evidence that completely wilful choice of prostitution is the exception, not the norm. I'm also alleging that no "client" of prostitutes can know if the woman gets beaten regularly, was forced into prostitution, is coerced not to leave or was hooked on drugs. I don't believe a drug addict can consent to paid sex. I don't believe illegal immigrants who were smuggled into a country and "indentured" can wilfully consent to prostitution. But their patrons choose to think so, and they look the other way.
Dylan16807 13y ago
The relevant quotes were not on the kickstarter page itself.

goldins 13y ago

No? "Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances."

shawabawa3 13y ago
The author's response: http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape. Doesn't seem very rapey when you consider this is after several dates and they are alone together. He also says over and over again "If she says no, stop immediately".

deong 13y ago

Grabbing a woman's hand and forcing her to touch your exposed penis is, I think, sexual violence by almost any reasonable standard.

garethadams 13y ago
If a girl is already in a private, intimate setting with you after you've met her a few times – like that part of the guide relates to – then sex probably isn't too much of an unreasonable assumption. Of course that counter-article cherry-picked quotes from all over the guide and threw them together to make it sound like these were all things you should do on first meeting someone
bayesianhorse 13y ago
It really really depends on the context and how you define "force". This doesn't even come close to mild sado maso. A kiss can be sexual assault, especially against minors. But even strangling (which I don't do and never did to a woman) can be part of consential sex. It's really sensitive subject. Let's not talk about fifty shades of gray... "Consent" isn't discussed enough. For example prostitution is widely seen as consential, despite tons of evidence that prostitution hardly ever is a conscious, free career choice, and rape is rape no matter how much you pay to the pimp...
- anaptdemise 13y ago
  >For example prostitution is widely seen as consential, despite tons of evidence that prostitution hardly ever is a conscious, free career choice, and rape is rape no matter how much you pay to the pimp But you are entering the realm of misogyny again. The, "Oh, no one would wilfully chose this profession society finds immoral, they must be a victim of happenstance." It is a difficult thing to get around now days.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    No. I'm not saying "no woman wilfully chooses". What I meant was that there is tons of evidence that completely wilful choice of prostitution is the exception, not the norm. I'm also alleging that no "client" of prostitutes can know if the woman gets beaten regularly, was forced into prostitution, is coerced not to leave or was hooked on drugs. I don't believe a drug addict can consent to paid sex. I don't believe illegal immigrants who were smuggled into a country and "indentured" can wilfully consent to prostitution. But their patrons choose to think so, and they look the other way.

Dylan16807 13y ago

The relevant quotes were not on the kickstarter page itself.