5 ms·

A good piece of advice I got from a lawyer once: If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. The cops never arrest anyone unles

by api 13y ago

A good piece of advice I got from a lawyer once: If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. The cops never arrest anyone unless they think they're guilty, so anything you say -- as the saying goes in America -- can and will be used against you. It'll be filtered through that cognitive bias. Part two of his advice was: even if you are guilty of something, don't assume you're being busted for what you're guilty of. (So again keep your mouth shut.) He related a case of someone busted for trafficking drugs. (Turns out he was.) He wound up being charged with murder. (He didn't do that!) Apparently someone had been killed in a way that made the police suspect it was drug-related, and there was circumstantial evidence linking the suspect to the scene, so...

danso 13y ago
Obligatory link to the "Don't talk to the police" video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc It's one of the most profoundly revealing videos I've ever watched on the Internet, certainly the only (non-movie) video I've watched for 50 minutes. But I can't think of many other 50 minute periods in my adult life where my mind was so thoroughly changed from beginning to end on something related to politics and civics.
- anoother 13y ago
  Just a question re. this video - how relevant is it in non-US jurisdictions? Does most of the advice still apply for, say, the UK?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - danso 13y ago
    IANAL of course, but it would depend on what the courts have ruled on non-incrimination. But in terms of law-enforcement, it's hard to imagine that the possible errors/misunderstandings that the professor describes here would also not apply to any law enforcement bureaucracy (the tendency for authorities to mistakenly remember things, and the intense pressure not to admit mistakes, to the detriment of the accused)
  - zalew 13y ago
    laws differ, but police getting people to talk is pretty universal across the world - get a confession, case closed, less work to do. he's innocent? who cares, that's justice work now.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  Relevant: Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent "The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why? The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have exploded in number but also become impossibly broad and vague. " http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/...
maurits 13y ago
In eloquent praise of the fifth amendment:[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
m0nty 13y ago
> If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. In the UK (which is where the OA is set) we don't really have that option. The police will warn you when arrested: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence." So basically, you're required to mount your own ad-hoc defence when arrested, or "it may harm your defence" in court. This when you might be under extreme emotional stress from the arrest, or the incident which led to it. When your state of mind might be borderline rational or worse. Effectively, we do not have a right to silence.
- boothead 13y ago
  Surely that questioning has to take place with a lawyer present though? The police can't question you (or get you to say anything) before you've had access to legal advice.... right..?
  - cstross 13y ago
    Good luck getting legal aid for a criminal defense in the UK, is all I can say ...
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    Nope, the police can start questioning right away. You can decline to answer without a lawyer, which isn't an admission of guilt and cannot be used as evidence of guilt, then the solicitor can council you on what you can and can't say. However, if during the questioning even with a lawyer present you omit something and use it in court, the prosecution is allowed to say "Well, this is a new piece of evidence" and use it against you however they can, or ask for it to be disallowed. I think. It's been a while since I looked at the strict policy and regular interpretations. Police don't have to wait for a solicitor though, that's up to you and you have to ask for one straight off. If you're in the UK and you are arrested, be very polite with them, ask for a solicitor and wait, even if you know you're innocent. Actually, especially if you know you're innocent.
    - 13y ago
venomsnake 13y ago
Back in the time the Inqusiton started their trails by asking "Do you know of what you are charged". A lot of crimes came out that way. Sadly a lot of people visiting HN live in places where the police think of the safety of body and limb of the suspect as a optional recommendation. So keep you mouth shut may not be that easy.
- gmaslov 13y ago
  Hah. So that's why they always ask "Do you know why I pulled you over?" ;-)
  - TallGuyShort 13y ago
    Exactly. That's also why they ask "Do you know how fast you were going?". It's less burden on them to provide calibration charts, etc. in court. Also, the only good answer to "you don't have anything illegal in here you don't want me to find, do you?" is "you do not have my consent to search the vehicle, and if you're going to search it anyway I would like your supervising officer to be present".
    - venomsnake 13y ago
      Depending on the country they do have the right to ask you to show them first aid kit, fire extinguisher and spare tire. Since they are usually hold in the trunk of the car, and the tire on the bottom this is as a good as a search.
      - darkarmani 13y ago
        > Depending on the country they do have the right to ask you to show them first aid kit, fire extinguisher and spare tire. What? Who carries all that around? Is this a good reason to drive around on your spare tire, so they can see it?

by api 13y ago

danso 13y ago

Obligatory link to the "Don't talk to the police" video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc It's one of the most profoundly revealing videos I've ever watched on the Internet, certainly the only (non-movie) video I've watched for 50 minutes. But I can't think of many other 50 minute periods in my adult life where my mind was so thoroughly changed from beginning to end on something related to politics and civics.

anoother 13y ago
Just a question re. this video - how relevant is it in non-US jurisdictions? Does most of the advice still apply for, say, the UK?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- danso 13y ago
  IANAL of course, but it would depend on what the courts have ruled on non-incrimination. But in terms of law-enforcement, it's hard to imagine that the possible errors/misunderstandings that the professor describes here would also not apply to any law enforcement bureaucracy (the tendency for authorities to mistakenly remember things, and the intense pressure not to admit mistakes, to the detriment of the accused)
- zalew 13y ago
  laws differ, but police getting people to talk is pretty universal across the world - get a confession, case closed, less work to do. he's innocent? who cares, that's justice work now.
digitalengineer 13y ago
Relevant: Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent "The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why? The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have exploded in number but also become impossibly broad and vague. " http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/...

maurits 13y ago

In eloquent praise of the fifth amendment:[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

m0nty 13y ago

> If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. In the UK (which is where the OA is set) we don't really have that option. The police will warn you when arrested: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence." So basically, you're required to mount your own ad-hoc defence when arrested, or "it may harm your defence" in court. This when you might be under extreme emotional stress from the arrest, or the incident which led to it. When your state of mind might be borderline rational or worse. Effectively, we do not have a right to silence.

boothead 13y ago
Surely that questioning has to take place with a lawyer present though? The police can't question you (or get you to say anything) before you've had access to legal advice.... right..?
- cstross 13y ago
  Good luck getting legal aid for a criminal defense in the UK, is all I can say ...
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  Nope, the police can start questioning right away. You can decline to answer without a lawyer, which isn't an admission of guilt and cannot be used as evidence of guilt, then the solicitor can council you on what you can and can't say. However, if during the questioning even with a lawyer present you omit something and use it in court, the prosecution is allowed to say "Well, this is a new piece of evidence" and use it against you however they can, or ask for it to be disallowed. I think. It's been a while since I looked at the strict policy and regular interpretations. Police don't have to wait for a solicitor though, that's up to you and you have to ask for one straight off. If you're in the UK and you are arrested, be very polite with them, ask for a solicitor and wait, even if you know you're innocent. Actually, especially if you know you're innocent.
  - 13y ago

venomsnake 13y ago

Back in the time the Inqusiton started their trails by asking "Do you know of what you are charged". A lot of crimes came out that way. Sadly a lot of people visiting HN live in places where the police think of the safety of body and limb of the suspect as a optional recommendation. So keep you mouth shut may not be that easy.

gmaslov 13y ago
Hah. So that's why they always ask "Do you know why I pulled you over?" ;-)
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  Exactly. That's also why they ask "Do you know how fast you were going?". It's less burden on them to provide calibration charts, etc. in court. Also, the only good answer to "you don't have anything illegal in here you don't want me to find, do you?" is "you do not have my consent to search the vehicle, and if you're going to search it anyway I would like your supervising officer to be present".
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    Depending on the country they do have the right to ask you to show them first aid kit, fire extinguisher and spare tire. Since they are usually hold in the trunk of the car, and the tire on the bottom this is as a good as a search.
    - darkarmani 13y ago
      > Depending on the country they do have the right to ask you to show them first aid kit, fire extinguisher and spare tire. What? Who carries all that around? Is this a good reason to drive around on your spare tire, so they can see it?