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Singaporean Websites Must Pay To Mention Singapore And Not Mention Gay People

59 points by tellarin 13y ago

thoughtcriminal 13y ago
William Gibson calls Singapore "DisneyLand with the Death Penalty": http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html Definitely sounds like a surreal place.
- latch 13y ago
  Been living here for almost a year, it's wonderful. Less personal freedom than Hong Kong, but all things considered, it's one of the best places to live. You don't walk or talk worrying about the police or anything like that. You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but aside from the huge gap between rich and poor (a problem facing all Asian countries), there aren't huge issues to protest. Edit: I was wrong to say the above. Apologies. Keeping it here though for context to comments below.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - zainny 13y ago
    "You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but ... there aren't huge issues to protest." If history has taught us anything, it's that statements like this _do_ inevitably come back to bite you very, very hard.
    - eru 13y ago
      At least you are free to vote with your feet. Something that e.g. the GDR made very hard.
  - fpgeek 13y ago
    > there aren't huge issues to protest Aside from the issues mentioned in the OP? Or if you are gay? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_%28Singapore%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_... Or immigration policy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729 Or... I live in Singapore too, and while there are plenty of pluses there are also plenty of minuses and they shouldn't be minimized or ignored.
    - latch 13y ago
      Ok, you and zainny make fair points. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of, say, Turkey right now..or Somalia. But even if it isn't at that scale, freedom of speech is important and I was wrong do dismiss it so casually.
      - potatolicious 13y ago
        I don't think anyone seriously compares Singapore to Somalia or Turkey - by that measure it's a veritable paradise. The comparisons I have seen have all compared it to developed, first-world countries like most of western Europe, the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc. It is, after all, the league that Singapore wants to play in both in image and influence.
    - eru 13y ago
      The protest about the immigration policy actually makes me glad that Singapore isn't run as a democracy.
      - ValentineC 13y ago
        Do you mind elaborating?
        tengkahwee 13y ago
        I think eru meant that a majority of Singaporeans are feeling the pinch and sentiments towards foreigners are at an all time low. Mainly due to loss to jobs and housing opportunities to foreigners. Our government however maintained that foreigners are essential to growth and had there been a voting process in this decision there will be ugly results. However I will not go as to say Singapore is less democratic due to this point.
  - thoughtcriminal 13y ago
    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither." --Benjamin Franklin This is a quote we all need to take to heart.
  - zalew 13y ago
    sounds a bit like Dubai. people are relaxed and happy because all the shit is swept under the rug so it doesn't concern the priviledged. gotta embrace 'ignorance is bliss', accept things how they are, take what's yours and don't look below the surface, otherwise you'd probably go nuts.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      > all the shit is swept under the rug This is quite literally true in Dubai: http://gizmodo.com/5857475/without-trucks-the-tallest-building-in-the-world-would-become-the-tallest-mountain-of-poop http://gizmodo.com/5857475/without-trucks-the-tallest-buildi...
  - nubela 13y ago
    Wow, say that to the 3million native Singaporeans. I'm sure they will paint a very different picture. You are a foreigner living life of Singapore via rose-tinted glasses. Don't make such sweeping statements.
    - latch 13y ago
      Yup, I was wrong. Sorry.
  - cageface 13y ago
    I've been living in Vietnam for the last two years and my life here as a foreigner is pretty sweet, all things considered. But I'm not sure I'd feel the same way if I were a native. The fact that I can buy a plane ticket tomorrow and be half way around the world any time makes it easier to ignore some of the realities that natives face without that freedom.
    - ValentineC 13y ago
      The Singapore passport is pretty good. It's supposedly better than Iceland in terms of travel freedom. [1] However, I personally think the government has implemented considerable measures to stop brain drain, including 4/6-year bond government university scholarships [2] and an intended lack of (usually bilateral) working holiday visas [3]. (Can't find any links aggregating such visas for Singapore citizens, but I found that New Zealand might be one of the few countries to offer such a visa [3]. There's no such programme for Australia [4], Canada [5] or the UK [6] — this could be contrasted with Malaysia, which has bilateral programmes with some of these countries.) On the bright side, the USA offers the H1B1 non-immigrant-intent visa for Singapore citizens. [7] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singaporean_citizens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singapore... [2] http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_34197 http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_34197 [3] http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-holiday-programme/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-hol... [4] http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/visa-options.htm http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/visa-options... [5] http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/intro_incoming-intro_entrant.aspx?lang=eng http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/intro_incoming-int... [6] http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier5/youthmobilityscheme/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/... [7] http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1391.html http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1391.h...
      - cageface 13y ago
        Vietnamese are free to travel outside Vietnam and even emigrate but the reality is that visas for most countries outside SE Asia are hard for them to come by and they certainly don't have the luxury of jetting back to the U.S. any time things get uncomfortable for them.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rdtsc 13y ago
It is interesting to me how on HN there seems to be a disproportionate number (say relative to the general population) of Singapore fans. They pop up randomly and often. Say something negative about Singapore, sure enough, they'll chime in. It is very strange. I don't care much for Singapore and don't usually think about it outside of HN. Much like I don't think about Peru or Qatar or Sweden. But the subject does come up on HN and sure enough there is a long series of arguments pro and against Singapore's political, economic and social setup. Ok so they have canning, that's brutal, they don't mind executing people, but so do we in US apparently. The defense usually praises its economy and laws. Now in this case with banning news related to homosexuality, I wonder how will the "enlightened" Westerners going to defend it, while also keeping up with the appearance of being modern libertarians. I tried playing devil's advocate and a plausible argument, but I couldn't. I thought of using religion as context (like say "it offends the religious sensitivities of the majority"), but it seems Singapore is a hodge podge when it comes to that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore. Anyway just pointing out the (meta?) topic of Singapore is an an interesting phenomenon here. Still not sure why. Is it just me that noticed it?
- latch 13y ago
  Every country creates bad laws: CISPA, HADOPI... Every country infringes in freedom of the press and freedom of speech. The individuals laws/acts can't be defended, just like the country/system as a whole can't be judged on them alone. If there really is a pro-SG movement on HN, it's probably just reactionary. We think people think SG is some brutal dictatorship, so we're hyper-defensive (sensitive?). I'm surprised this surprises you...it's pretty common. Muslims are quick to point out not all muslims are terrorists, catholics that they aren't all pedophiles, whites that they aren't all bigots...
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Ah, you are exercising the first rule of the wumao party: 1. If someone criticizes your country, just point out how no country is perfect to deflect the criticism. SG is a dictatorship, it is well known that the Lee family have been running it as their own little fief for awhile now by controlling the press so they can continue to win elections. The dictatorship is completely benevolent, non-brutal, and very business-oriented, so the people tend to be relatively happy (not free but rich!). Honestly, I'm not sure real democracy would have worked given the context SG is in. But that still doesn't excuse reality.
hkmurakami 13y ago
original article headline @eff: Singaporean Websites Must Pay To Mention Singapore... And Not Mention Gay People At All OK I was totally confused by the HN headline, which makes it seem like you have to pay if you mention Singapore AND fail to mention gay people at all, as if the govt is saying "hey if you Manton us, you mention gay people too. otherwise you gotta pay." of course, I go to the article and see that whoever submitted the article totally broke the grammar of the original headline, most lily to save space.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I read a real article about this. Basically, any news agency that discusses Singapore more than N times a month must indemnify with a $50K SGD bond and follow the laws of the country in all of the content they report. So even CNN, if they report Singapore stories, will be subject to this, though I doubt they will try to enforce this on international news agencies.
- tellarin 13y ago
  Actually, when I submitted the article I changed the title to "Singapore Institutes New Rules to Control Media/Websites", as the original title was also not that good. HN moderators came up with the current butchered title.
ValentineC 13y ago
Just thought I'd mention that someone has organised a protest in Singapore to this particular issue, at the government-sanctioned "Speakers' Corner", this weekend: https://www.facebook.com/events/185882738236629/ https://www.facebook.com/events/185882738236629/ I'm looking forward to see if the government listens.
pasbesoin 13y ago
Another reason to support anonymity (and pseudonymity) on the Internet: So that you can mention your country -- or partner -- without fear of economic repercussions or prison.

59 points by tellarin 13y ago

William Gibson calls Singapore "DisneyLand with the Death Penalty": http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html Definitely sounds like a surreal place.

latch 13y ago
Been living here for almost a year, it's wonderful. Less personal freedom than Hong Kong, but all things considered, it's one of the best places to live. You don't walk or talk worrying about the police or anything like that. You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but aside from the huge gap between rich and poor (a problem facing all Asian countries), there aren't huge issues to protest. Edit: I was wrong to say the above. Apologies. Keeping it here though for context to comments below.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- zainny 13y ago
  "You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but ... there aren't huge issues to protest." If history has taught us anything, it's that statements like this _do_ inevitably come back to bite you very, very hard.
  - eru 13y ago
    At least you are free to vote with your feet. Something that e.g. the GDR made very hard.
- fpgeek 13y ago
  > there aren't huge issues to protest Aside from the issues mentioned in the OP? Or if you are gay? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_%28Singapore%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_... Or immigration policy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729 Or... I live in Singapore too, and while there are plenty of pluses there are also plenty of minuses and they shouldn't be minimized or ignored.
  - latch 13y ago
    Ok, you and zainny make fair points. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of, say, Turkey right now..or Somalia. But even if it isn't at that scale, freedom of speech is important and I was wrong do dismiss it so casually.
    - potatolicious 13y ago
      I don't think anyone seriously compares Singapore to Somalia or Turkey - by that measure it's a veritable paradise. The comparisons I have seen have all compared it to developed, first-world countries like most of western Europe, the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc. It is, after all, the league that Singapore wants to play in both in image and influence.
  - eru 13y ago
    The protest about the immigration policy actually makes me glad that Singapore isn't run as a democracy.
    - ValentineC 13y ago
      Do you mind elaborating?
      - tengkahwee 13y ago
        I think eru meant that a majority of Singaporeans are feeling the pinch and sentiments towards foreigners are at an all time low. Mainly due to loss to jobs and housing opportunities to foreigners. Our government however maintained that foreigners are essential to growth and had there been a voting process in this decision there will be ugly results. However I will not go as to say Singapore is less democratic due to this point.
- thoughtcriminal 13y ago
  "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither." --Benjamin Franklin This is a quote we all need to take to heart.
- zalew 13y ago
  sounds a bit like Dubai. people are relaxed and happy because all the shit is swept under the rug so it doesn't concern the priviledged. gotta embrace 'ignorance is bliss', accept things how they are, take what's yours and don't look below the surface, otherwise you'd probably go nuts.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    > all the shit is swept under the rug This is quite literally true in Dubai: http://gizmodo.com/5857475/without-trucks-the-tallest-building-in-the-world-would-become-the-tallest-mountain-of-poop http://gizmodo.com/5857475/without-trucks-the-tallest-buildi...
- nubela 13y ago
  Wow, say that to the 3million native Singaporeans. I'm sure they will paint a very different picture. You are a foreigner living life of Singapore via rose-tinted glasses. Don't make such sweeping statements.
  - latch 13y ago
    Yup, I was wrong. Sorry.
- cageface 13y ago
  I've been living in Vietnam for the last two years and my life here as a foreigner is pretty sweet, all things considered. But I'm not sure I'd feel the same way if I were a native. The fact that I can buy a plane ticket tomorrow and be half way around the world any time makes it easier to ignore some of the realities that natives face without that freedom.
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    The Singapore passport is pretty good. It's supposedly better than Iceland in terms of travel freedom. [1] However, I personally think the government has implemented considerable measures to stop brain drain, including 4/6-year bond government university scholarships [2] and an intended lack of (usually bilateral) working holiday visas [3]. (Can't find any links aggregating such visas for Singapore citizens, but I found that New Zealand might be one of the few countries to offer such a visa [3]. There's no such programme for Australia [4], Canada [5] or the UK [6] — this could be contrasted with Malaysia, which has bilateral programmes with some of these countries.) On the bright side, the USA offers the H1B1 non-immigrant-intent visa for Singapore citizens. [7] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singaporean_citizens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singapore... [2] http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_34197 http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_34197 [3] http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-holiday-programme/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-hol... [4] http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/visa-options.htm http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/visa-options... [5] http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/intro_incoming-intro_entrant.aspx?lang=eng http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/intro_incoming-int... [6] http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier5/youthmobilityscheme/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/... [7] http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1391.html http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1391.h...
    - cageface 13y ago
      Vietnamese are free to travel outside Vietnam and even emigrate but the reality is that visas for most countries outside SE Asia are hard for them to come by and they certainly don't have the luxury of jetting back to the U.S. any time things get uncomfortable for them.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rdtsc 13y ago

It is interesting to me how on HN there seems to be a disproportionate number (say relative to the general population) of Singapore fans. They pop up randomly and often. Say something negative about Singapore, sure enough, they'll chime in. It is very strange. I don't care much for Singapore and don't usually think about it outside of HN. Much like I don't think about Peru or Qatar or Sweden. But the subject does come up on HN and sure enough there is a long series of arguments pro and against Singapore's political, economic and social setup. Ok so they have canning, that's brutal, they don't mind executing people, but so do we in US apparently. The defense usually praises its economy and laws. Now in this case with banning news related to homosexuality, I wonder how will the "enlightened" Westerners going to defend it, while also keeping up with the appearance of being modern libertarians. I tried playing devil's advocate and a plausible argument, but I couldn't. I thought of using religion as context (like say "it offends the religious sensitivities of the majority"), but it seems Singapore is a hodge podge when it comes to that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore. Anyway just pointing out the (meta?) topic of Singapore is an an interesting phenomenon here. Still not sure why. Is it just me that noticed it?

latch 13y ago
Every country creates bad laws: CISPA, HADOPI... Every country infringes in freedom of the press and freedom of speech. The individuals laws/acts can't be defended, just like the country/system as a whole can't be judged on them alone. If there really is a pro-SG movement on HN, it's probably just reactionary. We think people think SG is some brutal dictatorship, so we're hyper-defensive (sensitive?). I'm surprised this surprises you...it's pretty common. Muslims are quick to point out not all muslims are terrorists, catholics that they aren't all pedophiles, whites that they aren't all bigots...
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Ah, you are exercising the first rule of the wumao party: 1. If someone criticizes your country, just point out how no country is perfect to deflect the criticism. SG is a dictatorship, it is well known that the Lee family have been running it as their own little fief for awhile now by controlling the press so they can continue to win elections. The dictatorship is completely benevolent, non-brutal, and very business-oriented, so the people tend to be relatively happy (not free but rich!). Honestly, I'm not sure real democracy would have worked given the context SG is in. But that still doesn't excuse reality.

hkmurakami 13y ago

original article headline @eff: Singaporean Websites Must Pay To Mention Singapore... And Not Mention Gay People At All OK I was totally confused by the HN headline, which makes it seem like you have to pay if you mention Singapore AND fail to mention gay people at all, as if the govt is saying "hey if you Manton us, you mention gay people too. otherwise you gotta pay." of course, I go to the article and see that whoever submitted the article totally broke the grammar of the original headline, most lily to save space.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I read a real article about this. Basically, any news agency that discusses Singapore more than N times a month must indemnify with a $50K SGD bond and follow the laws of the country in all of the content they report. So even CNN, if they report Singapore stories, will be subject to this, though I doubt they will try to enforce this on international news agencies.
tellarin 13y ago
Actually, when I submitted the article I changed the title to "Singapore Institutes New Rules to Control Media/Websites", as the original title was also not that good. HN moderators came up with the current butchered title.

ValentineC 13y ago

Just thought I'd mention that someone has organised a protest in Singapore to this particular issue, at the government-sanctioned "Speakers' Corner", this weekend: https://www.facebook.com/events/185882738236629/ https://www.facebook.com/events/185882738236629/ I'm looking forward to see if the government listens.

pasbesoin 13y ago

Another reason to support anonymity (and pseudonymity) on the Internet: So that you can mention your country -- or partner -- without fear of economic repercussions or prison.