11 ms·
You know what the problem here is? There is no material difference between a 10 person game studio and a 3000 person game studio. Zynga likes to pretend that th
by josh2600 13y ago
You know what the problem here is? There is no material difference between a 10 person game studio and a 3000 person game studio. Zynga likes to pretend that their Z-Cloud gives them an advantage over their competitors. Maybe it does in terms of operations, but games isn't an operations business, it's a hits business. All of the optimization in the world doesn't help if you can't keep making wins and Zynga can't make wins because they're too cluttered with layers of middle management FUD.
520 employees is a lot of people out of work, but I have to think they saw it coming. My advice to people in similar positions all throughout tech is this: there are three signs that indicate an impending downsizing.
* Depressed Stock Value over long periods of time
* An Acceleration of secrecy and fiefdom claiming within the culture
* You look around and no one wants to come to work anymore
If you find yourself in this situation, leave. Find another job. Being caught in a downsizing sucks, but if you pay attention you can avoid them. It's important to make friends and to be able to tell the temperature of your local environment to avoid such devastation.
Edit: This can best be summarized as the well known phenomenon: "There's no such thing as a Free Lunch".
- Nitramp 13y agoThe one sign for impending bankruptcy, sellout, or similar forms of doom: desperate last measures by top management to raise the stock price, presumably so they can make a last profit. E.g. SUNW changing its stock symbol to JAVA just before selling out to Oracle.
- josh2600 13y agoThat was so classy. I remember when that happened and then I remembered that RIMM just changed to BBRY... Research in Motion to Blackberry... HMMMMM. I'm just saying.
- potatolicious 13y agoOn the other hand, "Apple Computer" became "Apple" with apparently no adverse effects.
- Fuzzwah 13y agoMy 1st thought was that the difference here is that Apple were broadening their focus, the other two examples were pinning all their hopes on a single product.
- cstejerean 13y agoI think a comparable change on Apple's part would have been renaming themselves to MacBook with a stock symbol of $MBP (or something equally narrow, as opposed to dropping computer to go after a bigger market).
- erik 13y agoImagine Apple with a stock symbol of IPOD.
- hkmurakami 13y ago$NEXT
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- SimHacker 13y agoLISA
- jwoah12 13y agoUnfortunately SIRI is already taken!
- evilduck 13y agoApple was on the upswing when they did that though. It didn't feel like a warning sign.
- freehunter 13y agoBut Sun didn't change the company name to Java. RIM did change the company name to Blackberry. Slight difference.
- hkmurakami 13y agointeresting since companies like Salesforce have always had ticker symbols like $CRM
- scrabble 13y agoWhile this is fair -- and I don't think there's a strong positive outlook on BlackBerry's future -- there were internal discussions for years about whether to change the name of the company or not since BlackBerry was really the only product and was far more recognizable externally than RIM.
- johnjlocke 13y agoTrue that. I've seen it happen before up close.
- kyrra 13y agoI was involved downsize a couple years back, and it turned out well for me. At least with my company they gave a severance package at departure. Better deal then just leaving for a new job.
- ttrreeww 13y agoYou have more leverage finding a new and better job while employed. Be on severance is a huge disadvantage.
- weixiyen 13y agoNot for engineers though. There will be multiple offers in the case of Zynga engineers, so negotiating isn't the issue. It's better financially to get severance.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- iguana 13y agoVery few engineering managers are in the position to have significant no-hire piles these days.
- Cookingboy 13y agoThat doesn't make sense, just because a company has a history of making bad management and product decisions doesn't mean the engineering talent is subpar.
- julsonl 13y agoThat looks narrow-minded for those particular employers though. The leadership might have made a lot of questionable decisions, but I don't think that should affect the quality of the engineers from that company.
- deleted 13y ago
- Yhippa 13y agoA long time ago I read an article about companies would actually use rumor and gossip to signal to it's employees that layoffs are pending without actually explicitly saying that. In theory you should be able to use signals to predict things. In practice I've seen friends completely blindsided by layoffs and I've dodged many a bullet but still didn't see it coming for the other people. I think it can be real difficult to predict these things other than to use your gut if you think something's afoot and be prepared to act preemptively.
- smacktoward 13y agoThere's usually signs, if you're sufficiently attuned to see them. Another thread on HN a few days back led me to write a blog post about one reliable type of "warm up the résumé" indicator: http://jasonlefkowitz.net/2013/05/introducing-lefkowitzs-law-of-corporate-financial-health/ http://jasonlefkowitz.net/2013/05/introducing-lefkowitzs-law...
- josh2600 13y agoNot only food, but office supplies. Very true. But it's important that the Variation is indicative. Like if you get baller snacks for a year and lame snacks start coming in, that's a very bad sign. But if you've always had lame snacks that's not a bad sign, your company is just frugal.
- joezydeco 13y ago"... if you’re in a client-services business, when you visit your clients, make sure to go with them to grab a beverage from their break room before your meeting". So true. Another good point is to ask to use the restrooms even if you don't really have to go. I interviewed at one place where I was told over and over how well the company was doing and how the owner loved racing his Porsches at the local road track. Then I saw the restrooms, which looked like they hadn't been updated or fixed in twenty years. I figured out where the money was going... and it wasn't to employees. Sure enough, the offer came in and it was a lowball. That confirmed my theory.
- 13y ago
- seivan 13y ago"..Zynga can't make wins because they're too cluttered with layers of middle management FUD." Right on.
- ttrreeww 13y agoKeep your LinkedIn network up to date can be extremely helpful too :)
- sown 13y ago> Zynga likes to pretend that their Z-Cloud gives them an advantage over their competitors. I wonder what would happen if they try to find a way to sell that as a service?
- smtddr 13y agoLet me add another 2 warning signs: - The free food/snacks get cancelled. - The "untracked" WFH days suddenly come under scrutiny.
- dkl 13y agoThe "untracked" WFH days suddenly come under scrutiny. This can also be an indicator of rampant abuse. That is, too many people work at home and don't work much. In my experience, even in small companies, there's a lot of me-too-ism with WFH, which leads to people asking for and being approved to work at home, when they really shouldn't be. Over time, this can lead to a measurable drop in productivity.
- smtddr 13y agoAh, point taken... but this may be a chicken-or-egg problem. If things are such in a company that a significant group of people start abusing WFH, that seems to imply morale has somehow been damaged and people aren't excited about their work(anymore?). Is WFH-abuse causing low morale/productivity at work, or did something else cause the decline in morale/productivity thus resulting in WFH-abuse.... I dunno.
- hkmurakami 13y agoI wonder which is a better approach: an unilateral barring of WFH days, or an effort to improve team morale to the point where people actually want to come to work. Yahoo is unilaterally cancelling all work at home plans, but my friend's manager was organically trying to get his team to come in on the WFH Fridays with Friday team events centered around alcohol, and other ways to build camraderie and morale.
- hkmurakami 13y ago- The free food/snacks get cancelled. Relevant recent discussion: The Elves Leave Middle Earth – Sodas Are No Longer Free (2009) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5751329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5751329
- 13y ago
- jonnathanson 13y agoInternally, a big leading indicator is usually a constant series of reorgs. Reorgs goeth before the layoffs. Last-ditch attempts to shuffle the deck chairs usually mean that shit's about to hit the fan. These are usually coupled with the secrecy/fiefdom mentality you mention. There are only two types of employees in a reorg: those doing the reorganizing, and those being reorganized. If you're frequently among the latter, know that you're also considered expendable enough in a layoff scenario. If your company's gone through several reorgs in rapid succession (more than 2 in a 6-month period, say), it's probably not a bad idea to start planning accordingly.
- hkmurakami 13y agoThere are many companies that do reorgs regularly each year as kind of a habitual "churn" process. Do you think this is indicative of anything, or is it just case by case in this case?
- sdoowpilihp 13y agoWithout knowing more about the specific company you are referring to, it's hard to tell, but I would propose that in _most_ situations, it's indicative of a systemic problem.
- jonnathanson 13y agoI'm talking less about planned or regular reorgs. Talking more about multiple reorgs over a shorter-than-usual timeframe. Yearly reorg as a matter of course? Probably nothing to worry about. Two reorgs in the same quarter? Red flag.
- mbesto 13y agoBeing caught in a downsizing sucks Or it can be a great. Severance packages can be quite lucrative. The better advice I give people is "always be looking for job opportunities". The best job opportunities come when you least expect them, and the worst jobs are taken when you're desperate.
- mkenyon 13y agoIn this case, Zynga offered us 3 months + 1 week/year.
- hkmurakami 13y agoWhat was your reaction to this offer, if I may ask? Did you think it was fair? Did you think you were ripped off? Angry? Sad? Depressed? I've left a few jobs but always on my own accord, so I'd appreciate having a glimpse of the psyche in going through an involuntary departure.
- mkenyon 13y agoIt's a generous payout. The cuts seem indiscriminate when I look at all the talented people being cut. I imagine that it is hard to surgically remove 20% of your workforce. Right now, I'm torn between looking for work immediately and asking for a delayed start, or going on vacation now and looking for work when I get back. All I know is that Mars Bar (the local bar) will be busy tonight.
- marvin 13y agoAs an aside, this is why the US should have longer mandatory holiday. Taking a vacation would be the last thing on my mind if I was laid off, but our country has 5 weeks of semi-paid holidays a year. Good luck with your decision, I'm sure you'll land on your feet.
- pault 13y agoI'm not sure what 3+ months' salary is for you, but I was able to live for a year in NW Thailand for $20k. I wouldn't be the person I am today had I not done that.
- montagg 13y ago> ...games isn't an operations business, it's a hits business. It depends on the game. Low-engagement games like Zynga titles are definitely hits businesses. However, game companies are starting to figure out that hits aren't sustainable. You have to create lifestyles that make people say, "I'm a X game player," not just "I play X game," and that means exceptional, reliable game experiences that extend outside the game. Creating a great Games as a Service company REQUIRES really awesome operational expertise. Game studios and publishers that want to provide those kinds of experiences really do need to have solid operations, and not just in their technology. The entire experience, from their support to their online presence to their in-person events, has to be buttoned up tight.
- samstave 13y ago>...* that means exceptional, reliable game experiences that extend outside the game.* This is something Zynga has never, will never understand. They don't have a deep understanding of games - they have a deep understanding of rapid ~~~thievery~~~ emulation and deployment.
- sgarg26 13y agoGood feedback. From friends at Zynga, they saw it coming.
- AndyKelley 13y agoWhat does "FUD" mean in this context?
- jlgreco 13y agoProbably "cruft".
- cookingrobot 13y agoFear - uncertainty - doubt. Basically when people kill good ideas by focusing on only the bad aspects and risks. It can happen when people are too conservative and want to keep the status quo, or aggressively to undermine competing interests.
- ioncereadknuth 13y agoBashing z-cloud is unwarranted and irrelevant to the point you make. A piece of technology that saves a company millions of dollars has no place in your diatribe against its management or creative output.