10 ms·

We're assuming these are fake, and that someone just got hold of their Facebook and Twitter passwords. On the other hand, I notice the same statement has appea

by pg 14y ago

We're assuming these are fake, and that someone just got hold of their Facebook and Twitter passwords. On the other hand, I notice the same statement has appeared on their blog. So maybe it's real. Or maybe their blog was compromised too. The really suspicious thing is that they don't seem to have confirmed it to a reporter yet, which presumably they'd be willing to do if they were so eager to spread the news that they tweeted about it.

minimaxir 14y ago
See this: http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ Check the author, it's posted by the CEO.
- untog 14y ago
  Just because a blog post was written on the CEO's account doesn't mean the CEO wrote it. PG has said they think it's a fake, and a blog post on the site is consistent with that. I'm not sure I agree, but still.
  - dkulchenko 14y ago
    How realistic is it really that Sendgrid's official Facebook, Twitter, blog, and status site were all compromised simultaneously?
    - untog 14y ago
      If you compromise the Gmail account of the person that controls all of them- quite realistic.
      - uptown 14y ago
        Which makes me wonder why everybody races to sign-up for ancillary services like Mailbox which just open up additional vectors of attack on people's most-sensitive account.
        MortenK 14y ago
        Maybe because they like the app more than they fear identity theft.
      - rdl 14y ago
        Honestly, if an email service provider gets hacked on all public channels due to an email password being hacked, you should probably factor that into decisions about what email service provider to use.
        k3n 14y ago
        The weakest link is always the user. In the event that an account was compromised, I'd put money on it being 100% due to a naive user.
      - nilkn 14y ago
        But how realistic is it that there would be no statement at all from the company about the accounts being compromised?
    - goodwink 14y ago
      Pretty realistic. Compromises tend to be pretty far-reaching because often the weakest points are single points of failure for many system (email accounts especially).
    - hkmurakami 14y ago
      They most likely share the same password so that multiple sendgrid employees can post to each of the pages.
    - tikhonj 14y ago
      Hmm, given that one of those is compromised, I'd say it's more likely that the rest are as well--Bayesian reasoning and all that. (Yeah, I don't actually know much about probability :P.) People share passwords all the time. Also, if somebody's computer or email account was compromised, chances are that would also give up the credentials for all of the sites.
    - Millennium 14y ago
      It's quite realistic. Or rather, the possibility that SendGrid's official Facebook, Twitter, blog, and status site all use the same password is quite realistic, and if that's the case then you only have to compromise one site to get them all.
    - simcop2387 14y ago
      Their blog at least is running wordpress, from wordpress.com. It's possible that they did get compromised somewhere since all of the things seem to be external to them that they did get compromised and they weren't entirely aware of it right away because of the DDoSing. I can't imagine though that they can't have heard of this by now and aren't trying to do something about it if it's fake.
- Millennium 14y ago
  No modern legal department would ever let a business make a statement that direct about an employee termination, and certainly not in the active voice. They wouldn't dare; the risk of a lawsuit is much too high. "Adria Richards is no longer working at SendGrid" might be credible, but "SendGrid has terminated the employment of Adria Richards" is not.
  - ry0ohki 14y ago
    There is almost certainly not a legal department at a startup of 60 people. I agree it's a very dumb thing to do legally, but I've seen lots of small companies make lots of legal mistakes, and could easily picture a founder freaking out that he's sheding users left and right and making a rash move.
    - ramblerman 14y ago
      considering they were paying her for PR as a "developer evangelist" I think they should be able to make a fair case for her dismissal.
    - antonej 14y ago
      As a startup lawyer (and a social media lawyer at that) I couldn't agree more. Even big companies make some unbelievably stupid mistakes when rushed to "do something."
  - uribs 14y ago
    Why? If they fired her, it's an accurate statement. What would she sue for?
    - Millennium 14y ago
      The most likely angle of attack would be privacy law: public disclosure of private facts. I don't know if this would stand up in court, but it doesn't have to stand up in court if the lawyers can drag it out long enough. In this particular case, that tips in her favor, because the odds of this case escalating to celebrity status are high. That scenario is every corporate lawyer's nightmare, because with celebrity status comes reliable financial support.
ISL 14y ago
Venturebeat also reports that SendGrid is getting DDOSed. http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fired-by-sendgrid-for-outting-developers-on-twitter/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fi... A look at Richards' personal page also shows a CloudFlare DDOS splash page before serving up the site. The assumption that they're under attack is reasonable. What's true today will remain true tomorrow.
- canttestthis 14y ago
  They're under a _DDOS_ attack. Assuming that their Facebook account, Twitter account as well as website was compromised just so the hacker could create a post announcing Richards's firing is a bit much, I think. I wonder if this (the possibility of SendGrid's website and every social media account being compromised) isn't the only motive behind the deletions. Maybe the mods are looking to avoid drama or protect Richards? I don't know. If their stated reason is their only motive, will they bring the posts back to the front page once SendGrid confirms?
  - freehunter 14y ago
    It's possible that the server that was compromised also held access to their Twitter and Facebook account. Depending on what backend they might be using, they could have it configured to allow posting to social media through a control panel rather than through facebook.com or twitter.com. In this situation, a compromised backend control panel would mean an attacker has access to their social media accounts as well. I've seen similar attacks first hand in the past.
    - mkr-hn 14y ago
      They use HootSuite according to the tweets. I think it has an API that can be tied into anything, including blogs and announcement systems.
  - peterwwillis 14y ago
    > Assuming that their Facebook account, Twitter account as well as website was compromised just so the hacker could create a post announcing Richards's firing is a bit much, I think. That is what DoS attacks were originally used for. Hose the target, then run your attack. It was more typical for attacking clients trying to use network services. In this case it's a PR blitz meant to look like an authentic message. Facebook and Twitter taken over takes a while to get back into the hands of the real owners. If someone got a fake message cached by cloudflare and then took down the backend, it could leave a false message hanging around until the target can get the service restored. Why the hell would someone do this? Who knows. Probably a dejected neckbeard with mental problems who feels like causing a shitstorm.
yangez 14y ago
It would be helpful if there was a way to show the reasoning behind deleted submissions. Like a quick note on [dead] pages that explains why it was killed, just like you did here. That way, people won't keep resubmitting the same story over and over, which makes it easier on everyone.
- larrys 14y ago
  "if there was a way to show the reasoning behind deleted submissions" I don't know why they don't do this but I can see why they might not do this. By stating a reason you then invite questions around the decision and waste time in addressing those questions. By not stating a reason many decisions like this will simply go unquestioned in a "nothing to see here move along" kind of way.
  - itxtxtcitc 14y ago
    However, as this post illustrates, not posting a reason also invites questions around why the post was deleted.
charlesju 14y ago
Another clue that supports Send Grid has been hacked is that on Adria Richards' twitter she says that Send Grid supports her. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328
- canttestthis 14y ago
  That was posted before everything blew up.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - ihuman 14y ago
    It was also before the DDoS
- obstacle1 14y ago
  Note that SendGrid didn't once themselves state that they support her, which could actually support the firing hypothesis more.
- laumars 14y ago
  It wouldn't be the 1st time her published opinion differed from reality (re the "forking" comments not being said in a sexual context[1]). But then in this new age of media, it seems sensationalism is more important than facts presented with civility. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681
Udo 14y ago
I'm hoping it's a fake, too, but three compromised accounts (Twitter, Facebook, and company blog, all of which are still active) showing the same thing would make this the most well-executed hack I've seen in a while - usually fakes like that are just quick drive-by posts. The Twitter straw man brigade is already making it into "fired for for speaking out against sexism". I'm really hoping Sendgrid doesn't give them their martyr. And I'm also hoping Sendgrid didn't do that just to surrender to the crazy male attack squad that seems to be so vocal and abusive, not to forget criminal. On a side note, Twitter has really turned into an absolute sewer, with polemic knee-jerk reactions and utter foolishness ruling supreme. I wish it was the idiots on Twitter who were getting fired - both the threatening jerky men as well as the opportunistic feminist ones.
- danso 14y ago
  Maybe I'm being stereotypical here, but not only is this a well-executed hack, it has well-written copy. Which is not standard for malicious hackers looking to make a point.
  - Udo 14y ago
    Exactly, that's what I was thinking, too. Trolling on a hacked account is almost always clearly distinguishable from the legitimate content there.
    - pbreit 14y ago
      Clearly it does.
  - gojomo 14y ago
    The Facebook statement isn't that good. For example, this wording... While we generally are sensitive and confidential with respect to employee matters, the situation has taken on a public nature. ...is extremely unlike the words usually used by a company dealing with a controversial employment matter. It's more like the puffery used in 419 scams.
- mehulkar 14y ago
canttestthis 14y ago
Hi pg, SendGrid just posted a status update to Twitter and another update to their status page on their website (outside their blog) so all signs point to SendGrid accounts _not_ being compromised. Could you reinstate the posts to the front page again?
- jgrahamc 14y ago
  Why bother? Isn't one thread enough space to discuss this pitiful situation?
  - canttestthis 14y ago
    All SendGrid/Adria Richards threads have either been deleted or shadowed.
    - jgrahamc 14y ago
      Agreed, but we don't need a front page full of ten threads on the same subject with 10 conversations going on repeating the same arguments.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - canttestthis 14y ago
        This hasn't been a problem before. There have been cases where the front page has been all about a single event (Aaron Swartz/Steve Jobs come to mind), and there have been cases where there are multiple stories on the front page that all repeat the same argument (like the 3 anti-EA stories on the front page at the same time last week). This story is of interest to the community, is directly relevant, and is still being censored. There's not a single post about this on the front page.
        jgrahamc 14y ago
        I agree that it's a story of interest to the community here. And it should be discussed, I just don't see the need for many threads on the precise same topic. I think Steve Jobs was totally different given the impact of his life.
nashequilibrium 14y ago
Sendgrid seems to be in control of their twitter account. https://twitter.com/SendGrid/status/314794418660065281 https://twitter.com/SendGrid/status/314794418660065281
goodwink 14y ago
There's a new tweet on their feed which seems to be a legitimate status update and the previous one about the firing has not been deleted. This could be cleverness by someone who compromised the account or it could indicate the announcement was in fact true.
EwanToo 14y ago
I kind of think you're wrong, they've carried on tweeting status updates about the outage after the termination tweet
- jennyjenjen 14y ago
  If it's scheduled from Hootsuite then it doesn't matter; it will still post.
EwanToo 14y ago
I kind of think you're wrong, they've carried on tweeting status updates about the outage after the termination tweet
revelation 14y ago
In this day and age, thats probably because no reporter ever called to ask and verify.
fredoliveira 14y ago
This is most certainly not fake.
MartinCron 14y ago
Exercising caution and what looks an awful lot like journalistic integrity standards? I don't want this to come across as a back-handed compliment, but I'm impressed.
ry0ohki 14y ago
I would expect denial from one of the founders or Adria if this were the case "hey guys ignore that post, we're hacked!"
- jennyjenjen 14y ago
  Considering a lot of corporate protocol and the pace at which this is happening... 1) I think they're holding off on all comment besides what we're seeing (if it's real), and 2) I agree with the person who says that no legal department would allow this to happen. I've followed SendGrid closely for a few years and this seems very uncharacteristic.
  - ry0ohki 14y ago
    Startups aren't like IBM, they don't often consult a "legal dept" (I doubt one exists at a company of 60 people), and often fly by the seat of the founder's pants. Either way it's really bad for SendGrid.
    - jennyjenjen 14y ago
      True, but I do know they have dedicated HR staff and Isaac Saldana et al don't seem to be that loosey-goosey, if you will, about decisions like this. On the other hand, there seems to be little other than a few messages about status updates. Even if it seems uncharacteristic, it's looking more and more to be true that she was terminated in a very ugly and public manner.
    - jennyjenjen 14y ago
      Also, just checked: they do have a General Counsel, Michael Tognetti. Whether he was involved or not, I don't know. It was pretty ballsy to go about this the way they have, if you ask me.
      - ry0ohki 14y ago
        I agree!
rdl 14y ago
It's entirely possible they let her go due to the DDoS, as an attempt to save their company. She shouldn't complain if her presence is fucking the company so much (even if not her fault), especially if given generous severance and/or a promise to rehire later. Even if she's not at fault at all, Sendgrid the company is in mortal peril due to her presence, and it's not fair to customers/coworkers/founders/investors.
- brador 14y ago
  Someone on their twitter feed mentioned 5 hours of downtime and that it's affecting his business.
  - rdl 14y ago
    I'd have switched already, because I can't see this getting resolved before next week at the earliest. There are just too many ways to continue to disrupt an ESP -- DDoS on the web, DDoS against SMTP, spam against people who fail to do proper DKIM/SPF, etc. Email deliverability isn't exactly the most reliable part of the Internet even normally, and when large numbers of motivated trolls have declared you the enemy, ... Switching to Mailgun (for high value stuff) or Amazon SES (for low value/cheap) is pretty easy.
- gojomo 14y ago
  Still, doesn't that just feed the mob mentality? And can't Richards' supporters launch a DDoS as well? So what you say is possible, and a panicked company might throw an employee overboard, but at the moment (11:13am pt) I still wouldn't rule out account-compromise-and-hoax.
  - tatsuke95 14y ago
    >"And can't Richards' supporters launch a DDoS as well?" The sentiment around places where "DDOSers" might hang out is pretty heavily against her. Remember, a programmer got fired for a harmless joke, at a programming conference, thanks to an over-zealous "evangelist". This whole situation is ludicrous.
vivin 14y ago
It's not fake. They just confirmed it on their site: http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ My post on this was deleted as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416106
- skeletonjelly 14y ago
  Just because it's written on their blog doesn't make it true /s
espadrine 14y ago
Is there a systematic process to follow before being allowed to kill a submission? The feeling of censorship is real, although unintended.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
tghw 14y ago
You're assuming a zebra event. But this is looking very much like a horse.
mkr-hn 14y ago
More suspicious things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418204
niggler 14y ago
PG: has anyone tried reaching out to SendGrid to give a comment? I'm sure if you gave a call they'd say something :)
- beaugunderson 14y ago
  I tried, and they did respond that it was true: http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z
kunai 14y ago
What seems more suspicious is why the termination of an employee would be so public -- on all major social networks -- rather than a formal dismissing on the website or to a reporter. Perhaps I'm uneducated on the topic, but it still seems suspicious.
- patrickmay 14y ago
  I agree. Turning the conspiracy dial up one more notch and assuming that SendGrid is caving to a DDOS attack, a very public dismissal might be a requirement imposed by whoever is behind it.
  - vacri 14y ago
    It's not 'very public' on their behalf, it's just publicly announced, if it's true. They haven't gone into details, they've just said that she's been terminated.
- vacri 14y ago
  Faster turnaround - the people being angry are going to see it straight away, and aren't going to constantly reload an unrelated website to see if there's been a development.
obviouslygreen 14y ago
Suppressing what a lot of us consider news based on assumptions seems extremely presumptuous.
beaugunderson 14y ago
Another point for 'not fake': http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z That's from a conversation on the Live Chat option on their site from a few seconds ago.
X-Istence 14y ago
They have posted new status updates regarding the service to Twitter, and left the message regarding firing Adria, so I am not sure it is a fake.
pg 14y ago
If SendGrid's Twitter account had been compromised, they'd have told someone by now. So I guess this is real after all.
- samiur1204 14y ago
  Gah, this is just an absolutely terrible succession of events. These guys definitely did not say anything that was that harmful. Their jokes may have been crude, and they may have been loud, but that only makes them annoying, not sexist. Adria has every right to post about her annoyance, but her claim for it being sexist is exaggeration. The companies reacting to this by firing the two developers is absolutely wrong, and then the community's sexist responses to Adria is just disgusting. And then Sendgrid brings the whole debacle full circle to fire Adria too? What is this, amateur hour?
  - nbouscal 14y ago
    That's what I don't understand - where the hell did sexism come into this? Telling dirty jokes is not sexist. Women tell dirty jokes too. This whole thing doesn't make any sense at all.
redthrowaway 14y ago
>We're assuming these are fake, and that someone just got hold of their Facebook and Twitter passwords. I saw threads on /b/ last night where people were rallying the troops to attack her and everyone associated with her. I really wouldn't be surprised if they managed to compromise a few accounts.
iends 14y ago
Why would you delete stories that you think are fake, without any facts indicating they are fake? I can't articulate it well, but for some reason this strikes me as a odd, especially since these stories ended up being true.

by pg 14y ago

minimaxir 14y ago

See this: http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ Check the author, it's posted by the CEO.

untog 14y ago
Just because a blog post was written on the CEO's account doesn't mean the CEO wrote it. PG has said they think it's a fake, and a blog post on the site is consistent with that. I'm not sure I agree, but still.
- dkulchenko 14y ago
  How realistic is it really that Sendgrid's official Facebook, Twitter, blog, and status site were all compromised simultaneously?
  - untog 14y ago
    If you compromise the Gmail account of the person that controls all of them- quite realistic.
    - uptown 14y ago
      Which makes me wonder why everybody races to sign-up for ancillary services like Mailbox which just open up additional vectors of attack on people's most-sensitive account.
      - MortenK 14y ago
        Maybe because they like the app more than they fear identity theft.
    - rdl 14y ago
      Honestly, if an email service provider gets hacked on all public channels due to an email password being hacked, you should probably factor that into decisions about what email service provider to use.
      - k3n 14y ago
        The weakest link is always the user. In the event that an account was compromised, I'd put money on it being 100% due to a naive user.
    - nilkn 14y ago
      But how realistic is it that there would be no statement at all from the company about the accounts being compromised?
  - goodwink 14y ago
    Pretty realistic. Compromises tend to be pretty far-reaching because often the weakest points are single points of failure for many system (email accounts especially).
  - hkmurakami 14y ago
    They most likely share the same password so that multiple sendgrid employees can post to each of the pages.
  - tikhonj 14y ago
    Hmm, given that one of those is compromised, I'd say it's more likely that the rest are as well--Bayesian reasoning and all that. (Yeah, I don't actually know much about probability :P.) People share passwords all the time. Also, if somebody's computer or email account was compromised, chances are that would also give up the credentials for all of the sites.
  - Millennium 14y ago
    It's quite realistic. Or rather, the possibility that SendGrid's official Facebook, Twitter, blog, and status site all use the same password is quite realistic, and if that's the case then you only have to compromise one site to get them all.
  - simcop2387 14y ago
    Their blog at least is running wordpress, from wordpress.com. It's possible that they did get compromised somewhere since all of the things seem to be external to them that they did get compromised and they weren't entirely aware of it right away because of the DDoSing. I can't imagine though that they can't have heard of this by now and aren't trying to do something about it if it's fake.
Millennium 14y ago
No modern legal department would ever let a business make a statement that direct about an employee termination, and certainly not in the active voice. They wouldn't dare; the risk of a lawsuit is much too high. "Adria Richards is no longer working at SendGrid" might be credible, but "SendGrid has terminated the employment of Adria Richards" is not.
- ry0ohki 14y ago
  There is almost certainly not a legal department at a startup of 60 people. I agree it's a very dumb thing to do legally, but I've seen lots of small companies make lots of legal mistakes, and could easily picture a founder freaking out that he's sheding users left and right and making a rash move.
  - ramblerman 14y ago
    considering they were paying her for PR as a "developer evangelist" I think they should be able to make a fair case for her dismissal.
  - antonej 14y ago
    As a startup lawyer (and a social media lawyer at that) I couldn't agree more. Even big companies make some unbelievably stupid mistakes when rushed to "do something."
- uribs 14y ago
  Why? If they fired her, it's an accurate statement. What would she sue for?
  - Millennium 14y ago
    The most likely angle of attack would be privacy law: public disclosure of private facts. I don't know if this would stand up in court, but it doesn't have to stand up in court if the lawyers can drag it out long enough. In this particular case, that tips in her favor, because the odds of this case escalating to celebrity status are high. That scenario is every corporate lawyer's nightmare, because with celebrity status comes reliable financial support.

ISL 14y ago

Venturebeat also reports that SendGrid is getting DDOSed. http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fired-by-sendgrid-for-outting-developers-on-twitter/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fi... A look at Richards' personal page also shows a CloudFlare DDOS splash page before serving up the site. The assumption that they're under attack is reasonable. What's true today will remain true tomorrow.

canttestthis 14y ago
They're under a _DDOS_ attack. Assuming that their Facebook account, Twitter account as well as website was compromised just so the hacker could create a post announcing Richards's firing is a bit much, I think. I wonder if this (the possibility of SendGrid's website and every social media account being compromised) isn't the only motive behind the deletions. Maybe the mods are looking to avoid drama or protect Richards? I don't know. If their stated reason is their only motive, will they bring the posts back to the front page once SendGrid confirms?
- freehunter 14y ago
  It's possible that the server that was compromised also held access to their Twitter and Facebook account. Depending on what backend they might be using, they could have it configured to allow posting to social media through a control panel rather than through facebook.com or twitter.com. In this situation, a compromised backend control panel would mean an attacker has access to their social media accounts as well. I've seen similar attacks first hand in the past.
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    They use HootSuite according to the tweets. I think it has an API that can be tied into anything, including blogs and announcement systems.
- peterwwillis 14y ago
  > Assuming that their Facebook account, Twitter account as well as website was compromised just so the hacker could create a post announcing Richards's firing is a bit much, I think. That is what DoS attacks were originally used for. Hose the target, then run your attack. It was more typical for attacking clients trying to use network services. In this case it's a PR blitz meant to look like an authentic message. Facebook and Twitter taken over takes a while to get back into the hands of the real owners. If someone got a fake message cached by cloudflare and then took down the backend, it could leave a false message hanging around until the target can get the service restored. Why the hell would someone do this? Who knows. Probably a dejected neckbeard with mental problems who feels like causing a shitstorm.

yangez 14y ago

It would be helpful if there was a way to show the reasoning behind deleted submissions. Like a quick note on [dead] pages that explains why it was killed, just like you did here. That way, people won't keep resubmitting the same story over and over, which makes it easier on everyone.

larrys 14y ago
"if there was a way to show the reasoning behind deleted submissions" I don't know why they don't do this but I can see why they might not do this. By stating a reason you then invite questions around the decision and waste time in addressing those questions. By not stating a reason many decisions like this will simply go unquestioned in a "nothing to see here move along" kind of way.
- itxtxtcitc 14y ago
  However, as this post illustrates, not posting a reason also invites questions around why the post was deleted.

charlesju 14y ago

Another clue that supports Send Grid has been hacked is that on Adria Richards' twitter she says that Send Grid supports her. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

canttestthis 14y ago
That was posted before everything blew up.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- ihuman 14y ago
  It was also before the DDoS
obstacle1 14y ago
Note that SendGrid didn't once themselves state that they support her, which could actually support the firing hypothesis more.
laumars 14y ago
It wouldn't be the 1st time her published opinion differed from reality (re the "forking" comments not being said in a sexual context[1]). But then in this new age of media, it seems sensationalism is more important than facts presented with civility. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

Udo 14y ago

I'm hoping it's a fake, too, but three compromised accounts (Twitter, Facebook, and company blog, all of which are still active) showing the same thing would make this the most well-executed hack I've seen in a while - usually fakes like that are just quick drive-by posts. The Twitter straw man brigade is already making it into "fired for for speaking out against sexism". I'm really hoping Sendgrid doesn't give them their martyr. And I'm also hoping Sendgrid didn't do that just to surrender to the crazy male attack squad that seems to be so vocal and abusive, not to forget criminal. On a side note, Twitter has really turned into an absolute sewer, with polemic knee-jerk reactions and utter foolishness ruling supreme. I wish it was the idiots on Twitter who were getting fired - both the threatening jerky men as well as the opportunistic feminist ones.

danso 14y ago
Maybe I'm being stereotypical here, but not only is this a well-executed hack, it has well-written copy. Which is not standard for malicious hackers looking to make a point.
- Udo 14y ago
  Exactly, that's what I was thinking, too. Trolling on a hacked account is almost always clearly distinguishable from the legitimate content there.
  - pbreit 14y ago
    Clearly it does.
- gojomo 14y ago
  The Facebook statement isn't that good. For example, this wording... While we generally are sensitive and confidential with respect to employee matters, the situation has taken on a public nature. ...is extremely unlike the words usually used by a company dealing with a controversial employment matter. It's more like the puffery used in 419 scams.
mehulkar 14y ago

canttestthis 14y ago

Hi pg, SendGrid just posted a status update to Twitter and another update to their status page on their website (outside their blog) so all signs point to SendGrid accounts _not_ being compromised. Could you reinstate the posts to the front page again?

jgrahamc 14y ago
Why bother? Isn't one thread enough space to discuss this pitiful situation?
- canttestthis 14y ago
  All SendGrid/Adria Richards threads have either been deleted or shadowed.
  - jgrahamc 14y ago
    Agreed, but we don't need a front page full of ten threads on the same subject with 10 conversations going on repeating the same arguments.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - canttestthis 14y ago
      This hasn't been a problem before. There have been cases where the front page has been all about a single event (Aaron Swartz/Steve Jobs come to mind), and there have been cases where there are multiple stories on the front page that all repeat the same argument (like the 3 anti-EA stories on the front page at the same time last week). This story is of interest to the community, is directly relevant, and is still being censored. There's not a single post about this on the front page.
      - jgrahamc 14y ago
        I agree that it's a story of interest to the community here. And it should be discussed, I just don't see the need for many threads on the precise same topic. I think Steve Jobs was totally different given the impact of his life.

nashequilibrium 14y ago

Sendgrid seems to be in control of their twitter account. https://twitter.com/SendGrid/status/314794418660065281 https://twitter.com/SendGrid/status/314794418660065281

goodwink 14y ago

There's a new tweet on their feed which seems to be a legitimate status update and the previous one about the firing has not been deleted. This could be cleverness by someone who compromised the account or it could indicate the announcement was in fact true.

EwanToo 14y ago

I kind of think you're wrong, they've carried on tweeting status updates about the outage after the termination tweet

jennyjenjen 14y ago
If it's scheduled from Hootsuite then it doesn't matter; it will still post.

EwanToo 14y ago

I kind of think you're wrong, they've carried on tweeting status updates about the outage after the termination tweet

revelation 14y ago

In this day and age, thats probably because no reporter ever called to ask and verify.

fredoliveira 14y ago

This is most certainly not fake.

MartinCron 14y ago

Exercising caution and what looks an awful lot like journalistic integrity standards? I don't want this to come across as a back-handed compliment, but I'm impressed.

ry0ohki 14y ago

I would expect denial from one of the founders or Adria if this were the case "hey guys ignore that post, we're hacked!"

jennyjenjen 14y ago
Considering a lot of corporate protocol and the pace at which this is happening... 1) I think they're holding off on all comment besides what we're seeing (if it's real), and 2) I agree with the person who says that no legal department would allow this to happen. I've followed SendGrid closely for a few years and this seems very uncharacteristic.
- ry0ohki 14y ago
  Startups aren't like IBM, they don't often consult a "legal dept" (I doubt one exists at a company of 60 people), and often fly by the seat of the founder's pants. Either way it's really bad for SendGrid.
  - jennyjenjen 14y ago
    True, but I do know they have dedicated HR staff and Isaac Saldana et al don't seem to be that loosey-goosey, if you will, about decisions like this. On the other hand, there seems to be little other than a few messages about status updates. Even if it seems uncharacteristic, it's looking more and more to be true that she was terminated in a very ugly and public manner.
  - jennyjenjen 14y ago
    Also, just checked: they do have a General Counsel, Michael Tognetti. Whether he was involved or not, I don't know. It was pretty ballsy to go about this the way they have, if you ask me.
    - ry0ohki 14y ago
      I agree!

rdl 14y ago

It's entirely possible they let her go due to the DDoS, as an attempt to save their company. She shouldn't complain if her presence is fucking the company so much (even if not her fault), especially if given generous severance and/or a promise to rehire later. Even if she's not at fault at all, Sendgrid the company is in mortal peril due to her presence, and it's not fair to customers/coworkers/founders/investors.

brador 14y ago
Someone on their twitter feed mentioned 5 hours of downtime and that it's affecting his business.
- rdl 14y ago
  I'd have switched already, because I can't see this getting resolved before next week at the earliest. There are just too many ways to continue to disrupt an ESP -- DDoS on the web, DDoS against SMTP, spam against people who fail to do proper DKIM/SPF, etc. Email deliverability isn't exactly the most reliable part of the Internet even normally, and when large numbers of motivated trolls have declared you the enemy, ... Switching to Mailgun (for high value stuff) or Amazon SES (for low value/cheap) is pretty easy.
gojomo 14y ago
Still, doesn't that just feed the mob mentality? And can't Richards' supporters launch a DDoS as well? So what you say is possible, and a panicked company might throw an employee overboard, but at the moment (11:13am pt) I still wouldn't rule out account-compromise-and-hoax.
- tatsuke95 14y ago
  >"And can't Richards' supporters launch a DDoS as well?" The sentiment around places where "DDOSers" might hang out is pretty heavily against her. Remember, a programmer got fired for a harmless joke, at a programming conference, thanks to an over-zealous "evangelist". This whole situation is ludicrous.

vivin 14y ago

It's not fake. They just confirmed it on their site: http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/ My post on this was deleted as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416106

skeletonjelly 14y ago
Just because it's written on their blog doesn't make it true /s

espadrine 14y ago

Is there a systematic process to follow before being allowed to kill a submission? The feeling of censorship is real, although unintended.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

tghw 14y ago

You're assuming a zebra event. But this is looking very much like a horse.

mkr-hn 14y ago

More suspicious things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418204

niggler 14y ago

PG: has anyone tried reaching out to SendGrid to give a comment? I'm sure if you gave a call they'd say something :)

beaugunderson 14y ago
I tried, and they did respond that it was true: http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z

kunai 14y ago

What seems more suspicious is why the termination of an employee would be so public -- on all major social networks -- rather than a formal dismissing on the website or to a reporter. Perhaps I'm uneducated on the topic, but it still seems suspicious.

patrickmay 14y ago
I agree. Turning the conspiracy dial up one more notch and assuming that SendGrid is caving to a DDOS attack, a very public dismissal might be a requirement imposed by whoever is behind it.
- vacri 14y ago
  It's not 'very public' on their behalf, it's just publicly announced, if it's true. They haven't gone into details, they've just said that she's been terminated.
vacri 14y ago
Faster turnaround - the people being angry are going to see it straight away, and aren't going to constantly reload an unrelated website to see if there's been a development.

obviouslygreen 14y ago

Suppressing what a lot of us consider news based on assumptions seems extremely presumptuous.

beaugunderson 14y ago

Another point for 'not fake': http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z http://cl.ly/image/0V2w0s0u0G3z That's from a conversation on the Live Chat option on their site from a few seconds ago.

X-Istence 14y ago

They have posted new status updates regarding the service to Twitter, and left the message regarding firing Adria, so I am not sure it is a fake.

pg 14y ago

If SendGrid's Twitter account had been compromised, they'd have told someone by now. So I guess this is real after all.

samiur1204 14y ago
Gah, this is just an absolutely terrible succession of events. These guys definitely did not say anything that was that harmful. Their jokes may have been crude, and they may have been loud, but that only makes them annoying, not sexist. Adria has every right to post about her annoyance, but her claim for it being sexist is exaggeration. The companies reacting to this by firing the two developers is absolutely wrong, and then the community's sexist responses to Adria is just disgusting. And then Sendgrid brings the whole debacle full circle to fire Adria too? What is this, amateur hour?
- nbouscal 14y ago
  That's what I don't understand - where the hell did sexism come into this? Telling dirty jokes is not sexist. Women tell dirty jokes too. This whole thing doesn't make any sense at all.

redthrowaway 14y ago

>We're assuming these are fake, and that someone just got hold of their Facebook and Twitter passwords. I saw threads on /b/ last night where people were rallying the troops to attack her and everyone associated with her. I really wouldn't be surprised if they managed to compromise a few accounts.

iends 14y ago

Why would you delete stories that you think are fake, without any facts indicating they are fake? I can't articulate it well, but for some reason this strikes me as a odd, especially since these stories ended up being true.