13 ms·
Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxi
by bobwaycott 14y ago
Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale.
As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964, investigating the role religion played in the development, acceptance, and perpetuation of the South’s attitudes and behaviors toward race, class, and gender. I get on guys' cases all the time when they're being obliquely and overtly sexist, especially in mixed company. I also point out to women when they're putting up with sexist behavior, because it's so ingrained in our culture that too few even recognize it properly. To say I'm pretty well steeped in both the academic and practical sides of gender politics, identity, and sexism would put it rather mildly.
However, I don't go ape-shit and publicly humiliate someone for making a potentially sexist joke among friends, because I have spent years rationally and academically evaluating whether or not someone is actually attempting to propagate bigotry and discriminatory behaviors--and this is the baseline for sexism, not whether or not a person approves of a statement that includes anatomical or sexual content. To reiterate, years of studying gender issues from a historical and philosophical perspective have shown rather conclusively that not everything sex-related is sexist.
The "big dongle" statement was not in any way a 'sexist joke'. It was an anatomical joke, albeit a childish one on the level of potty humor. Anatomy != sexism.
The forking comment, as explained by mr-hank, was not in the slightest bit sexist. Forking is the sincerest form of flattery (short of implementation, that is). People talk about forking repos all the time. I ask people if they've "forked [person's] repo" on the regular. I honestly don't even care if the guy said, "I'd fork his repo" in that typical, suggestive tone-of-voice. Why? Because for all I know as an outsider, the guys having the conversation could be homosexual, and not to put too fine a point on it, but homosexual men have been the victims of some absolutely disgusting and horrific sexism and discrimination (and much worse). Also, homosexual men don't heavily trend toward making lewd comments that are directed at women, especially where dick comments are concerned.
But even beyond trying to keep that consideration in mind, dick jokes or comments that are made between men without any obvious sign that the potentially offending comment is intended to be overheard ought to give everyone pause before sounding the Sexism Alert. Yes, guys talk about dicks at times and in places that are probably not appropriate. Kind of the way children talk about poop and farts and pee at times and in places that are probably not appropriate.
You know what else I hear a fuckton of at times and in places that are not appropriate? Breasts. Penises. Sluts. Periods. Boyfriend issues. Husband problems. Boob jobs. Male celebrity fantasies. 50 Fucking Shades of Grey. All of these from women. All the time--in offices, conferences, churches, cafes, restaurants, bars ... you name it. You wanna know how frequently I hear women talk about breasts (theirs or someone else's), or periods (theirs or someone else's), or the ways in which [insert body part] is changing during pregnancy, or how hot [insert attractive male celebrity] is, or how juicy 50 Shades is? It's everywhere.
Moreover, I can't even count the number of times I am in professional meetings with clients and notice [mostly younger] women adjusting their bras right in the middle of the meeting. Hey, I know those things get damn uncomfortable, ladies, but it also gets uncomfortable sitting through a meeting for two hours, crossing and uncrossing my legs to give my dick some space to not be a total pain just for existing between my legs. And guess what I never do? Adjust in the presence of women. Ever.
And to be perfectly transparent, I usually ignore it all. I'm one who pretty much defaults to giving women a pass because of all the stupid shit they've dealt with over a long history of men being complete assholes. I mean, really. A woman could make the most sexist comment I've ever heard and I'd just give it a shrug; but I'd say shit to a man if he was even obliquely offensive.
And yet, on this one, sounding the alarm was wrong. This wasn't sexism. Inappropriate? Sure, I'll grant Adria that. There were way too many people surrounding the exchange that it would have been better to not make the dongle comment--especially given that there was a woman in close proximity (and that's not a sly way of suggesting they should have made the comment if a woman was not in close proximity). It was an improper forum for such a comment. But to turn around and smile and take a picture, post it to Twitter, and then continue on calling oneself Joan of Arc? Christ, that is beyond the pale.
Just as the men who made the childish dongle comment agreed to a Code of Conduct, so did Adria. And just as she wanted them to abide by the Code, so should she have. I don't recall there being anything in the Code of Conduct that said one had the option to A) inform conference staff, or B) post a person's picture to Twitter if they say something you don't want to hear.
[edit: spelling errors & wording]
- ninjatron 14y ago> And to be perfectly transparent, I usually ignore it all. I'm one who pretty much defaults to giving women a pass because of all the stupid shit they've dealt with over a long history of men being complete assholes. I mean, really. A woman could make the most sexist comment I've ever heard and I'd just give it a shrug; but I'd say shit to a man if he was even obliquely offensive. I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, but this really comes across as hypocritical. This is fostering a double standard.
- bobwaycott 14y agoYou are not wrong. That was the point of the preface (on being transparent)--to make it clear that I, too, fail and trend toward auto-acceptance of charges of sexism (or other discrimination) based on the assumption that if someone is actually offended, there must be something to it and it would be best to be mindful of one's actions (including my own). I don't intend to foster a double standard, and I don't often experience women being sexist (except when they, too, objectify other men or women in homologous fashion as that for which men are derided). However, this particular case struck me as having too many exigent circumstances (many of which are recounted by Adria in her blog post) that provide very strong evidence that this was the wrong fight, and the consequences of her actions are both regrettable and deplorable.
- flaviusb 14y agoNot a double standard, because the situations are not symmetrical.
- bobwaycott 14y agoIt is a double standard and a symmetrical situation because sexism is sexism. Outside of, say, stand-up comedy and similar entertainment, sexist comments have no place. If a man, woman, or transgendered person is inappropriately making remarks at the expense of another person because of their gender, it should not be accepted. I wanted to admit that I, too, fail, and wrongly contextualize female-sourced sexism in a historical timeline of taking a lot of unfair shit from their culture, and give them a pass. But I shouldn't. It is no less wrong, and the victim is no less deserving of protection.