9 ms·

PG - I'm curious what you think about Bitcoin. Care to share?

nym 14y ago
PG invested in Coinbase (YC) http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/from/coinbase/ http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/from/coinbase/ I would love to know how many bitcoins PG personally holds: http://www.quora.com/Paul-Graham/How-many-bitcoins-does-PG-own http://www.quora.com/Paul-Graham/How-many-bitcoins-does-PG-o...
- pg 14y ago
  None. But I'm very conservative.
  - nym 14y ago
    Thanks for sharing!
  - reaclmbs 14y ago
    Wouldn't a conservative hedge?
    - ajross 14y ago
      Hedge vs. what? The collapse of the entire world financial system and its replacement by .... bitcoin? To be serious: obviously bitcoin can be used as in any investment strategy, including "conservative" ones. You seem to be arguing that a bitcoin position must be part of one, which is kinda insane.
      - reaclmbs 14y ago
        I think you're being rude. I am referring to the collapse of financial systems, but not necessarily the replacement by bitcoin. Maybe precious metals, heirloom seeds, or guns?
      - javert 14y ago
        Hedge vs. loss of value in major world fiat currencies. I think this is actually an important problem, and Bitcoin is a nice alternative to gold.
    - joezydeco 14y ago
      Why buy chips when you can own the Casino (Coinbase)?
      - tlrobinson 14y ago
        I see it the other way around. For Coinbase to succeed, Bitcoin necessarily needs to succeed. If Bitcoin succeeds the price of Bitcoin will increase by many orders of magnitude. Right now I'd put Bitcoin's odds of success on par with an early stage startup.
        joezydeco 14y ago
        The analogy was in reference to pg's investment in Coinbase while holding no Bitcoins themselves. If Bitcoin succeeds, would you rather have owned the coins... or the banks and exchanges that constantly take a percentage of the flow?
        tlrobinson 14y ago
        I'm saying it's quite possible the coins themselves would be a better investment at this point. Casino chips aren't going to significantly increase in value. If Bitcoin succeeds then Bitcoins will. If Bitcoin doesn't succeed, then neither will the "banks".
        joezydeco 14y ago
        But building a decent and trusted infrastructure of "banks" will improve Bitcoin's chances of success. Just holding a given quantity of coins on your laptop will not.
        tlrobinson 14y ago
        Oh I agree completely. If you have a significant amount of Bitcoin you should do everything you can to make Bitcoin a sucess.
  - igorsyl 14y ago
    I always tell financially conservative people they can buy US$1 worth of Bitcoins just so they can learn how it works. I think many newcomers believe Bitcoins are indivisible.
    - zacksjoden 14y ago
      I've been reading off and on about Bitcoins on HN for a while and had no idea that they could be broken down into smaller units. From Wikipedia: "In trade, one bitcoin is subdivided into 100-million smaller units called satoshis, defined by eight decimal places.[4]"
      - wmf 14y ago
        I think this partly stems from the term "Bitcoin" itself, since coins are not divisible (having moved beyond pieces of eight long ago). But there are no coins in Bitcoin! It's all just txouts and txins.
        vbuterin 14y ago
        You can think of it as a magically valuable liquid flowing down a system of ever-growing pipes representing the blockchain where the transactions are linking points and txins and txouts are pipes with their cross-section areas corresponding to their respective values. Once you think about it, the analogy fits perfectly.
        patrikr 14y ago
        "Coin" in the Bitcoin system is a nickname for a transaction output. The value of a coin can be anything, 1 BTC, 0.000345 BTC, 500,000 BTC...
    - PanMan 14y ago
      oke, sounds like a plan. What's the easiest place to buy 1/50th bitcoin? I created a Coinbase account, but that seems US only :(
      - 14y ago
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - benajnim 14y ago
    You are a venture capitalist, yes? ;^)
  - elux 14y ago
    Do you want some? I could give you one.
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    Post your BTC address and I'm sure someone will throw a bitcent or two your way. edit: mine is 1BFzpDHT69SrwLXndVogGgoSf5W4A8TMVS if you want to share the love :)
    - Yahivin 14y ago
      Anyone got any bit-pennies for a newb? 16524z1k5Xk8BsEVcSo1ZXLvank4ukUVdE I think Bitcoin or currencies like it will be important in the future so I'm trying to figure it out.
      - jacoblyles 14y ago
        2 internets for you sir (0.02 BTC)
    - brezina 14y ago
      sweet! hook a brother up 13d1B83HJZqgwwDUmVDB8dTtmgkp7BK62Q
      - jacoblyles 14y ago
        an internet for you sir! (0.01BTC)
        brezina 14y ago
        gracias amigo
    - loginatnine 14y ago
      Any internet left? :) 1LPjVfUFtwqy1DToVogtT2Fob3du4qXSa5
      - jacoblyles 14y ago
        1.1 internets for you sir! Don't spend it all on Satoshi Dice :)
pg 14y ago
Here's an email I sent someone yesterday about it: I am very intrigued by Bitcoin. It has all the signs. Paradigm shift, hackers love it, yet it's derided as a toy. Just like microcomputers.
- yabbadabbadoo 14y ago
  Any thoughts on the currency vs hoarding issue? Quick background for those unfamiliar with the issue - Bitcoin was built to be a currency, to be used to trade for goods and services. However, a significant portion of BTC is being hoarded and not traded, thus leading some (like Nobel Prize laureate Paul Krugman) to argue that it's not a currency at all, and any value is purely speculative. For the record, I don't agree with Krugman's argument.
  - sethist 14y ago
    I also wonder what percentage of the "hoarded currency" is actually currency that has been destroyed and if it will have any long term consequences. For example, in the early days of Bitcoin I mined a few blocks with an old laptop. The computer eventually died without any backup of my wallet thereby destroying the those Bitcoins. There doesn't appear to be anyway for anyone to know whether I am simply hoarding those Bitcoins to dump on the market at a later date or if they have been permanently removed from the money supply.
    - vyrotek 14y ago
      I'm in the same boat. I played around with BitCoin in the early days and never really cared for the coins I earned. I wiped the machine I used and only recently realized they were gone forever. Apparently I just flushed a few hundred bucks, meh.
    - gwern 14y ago
      > There doesn't appear to be anyway for anyone to know whether I am simply hoarding those Bitcoins to dump on the market at a later date or if they have been permanently removed from the money supply. Yeah, this is the big problem with the papers or blog posts pointing out how many coins are not moving around and then insinuating that Bitcoin is a scam or that it will soon be destroyed as an old miner dumps a few hundred thousand coins: for most of them, the parsimonious explanation for them not moving is simply that they've been lost. But there's no way to prove this! Did Satoshi wipe his hard drive when he moved on to other 'projects'? We have no way of knowing. (There apparently are ways to verifiably destroy bitcoins - send them to impossible addresses or something like that - but I haven't heard that anyone has bothered doing that and this wouldn't apply to people losing coins accidentally or apathetically.)

nym 14y ago

PG invested in Coinbase (YC) http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/from/coinbase/ http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/from/coinbase/ I would love to know how many bitcoins PG personally holds: http://www.quora.com/Paul-Graham/How-many-bitcoins-does-PG-own http://www.quora.com/Paul-Graham/How-many-bitcoins-does-PG-o...

pg 14y ago
None. But I'm very conservative.
- nym 14y ago
  Thanks for sharing!
- reaclmbs 14y ago
  Wouldn't a conservative hedge?
  - ajross 14y ago
    Hedge vs. what? The collapse of the entire world financial system and its replacement by .... bitcoin? To be serious: obviously bitcoin can be used as in any investment strategy, including "conservative" ones. You seem to be arguing that a bitcoin position must be part of one, which is kinda insane.
    - reaclmbs 14y ago
      I think you're being rude. I am referring to the collapse of financial systems, but not necessarily the replacement by bitcoin. Maybe precious metals, heirloom seeds, or guns?
    - javert 14y ago
      Hedge vs. loss of value in major world fiat currencies. I think this is actually an important problem, and Bitcoin is a nice alternative to gold.
  - joezydeco 14y ago
    Why buy chips when you can own the Casino (Coinbase)?
    - tlrobinson 14y ago
      I see it the other way around. For Coinbase to succeed, Bitcoin necessarily needs to succeed. If Bitcoin succeeds the price of Bitcoin will increase by many orders of magnitude. Right now I'd put Bitcoin's odds of success on par with an early stage startup.
      - joezydeco 14y ago
        The analogy was in reference to pg's investment in Coinbase while holding no Bitcoins themselves. If Bitcoin succeeds, would you rather have owned the coins... or the banks and exchanges that constantly take a percentage of the flow?
        tlrobinson 14y ago
        I'm saying it's quite possible the coins themselves would be a better investment at this point. Casino chips aren't going to significantly increase in value. If Bitcoin succeeds then Bitcoins will. If Bitcoin doesn't succeed, then neither will the "banks".
        joezydeco 14y ago
        But building a decent and trusted infrastructure of "banks" will improve Bitcoin's chances of success. Just holding a given quantity of coins on your laptop will not.
        tlrobinson 14y ago
        Oh I agree completely. If you have a significant amount of Bitcoin you should do everything you can to make Bitcoin a sucess.
- igorsyl 14y ago
  I always tell financially conservative people they can buy US$1 worth of Bitcoins just so they can learn how it works. I think many newcomers believe Bitcoins are indivisible.
  - zacksjoden 14y ago
    I've been reading off and on about Bitcoins on HN for a while and had no idea that they could be broken down into smaller units. From Wikipedia: "In trade, one bitcoin is subdivided into 100-million smaller units called satoshis, defined by eight decimal places.[4]"
    - wmf 14y ago
      I think this partly stems from the term "Bitcoin" itself, since coins are not divisible (having moved beyond pieces of eight long ago). But there are no coins in Bitcoin! It's all just txouts and txins.
      - vbuterin 14y ago
        You can think of it as a magically valuable liquid flowing down a system of ever-growing pipes representing the blockchain where the transactions are linking points and txins and txouts are pipes with their cross-section areas corresponding to their respective values. Once you think about it, the analogy fits perfectly.
      - patrikr 14y ago
        "Coin" in the Bitcoin system is a nickname for a transaction output. The value of a coin can be anything, 1 BTC, 0.000345 BTC, 500,000 BTC...
  - PanMan 14y ago
    oke, sounds like a plan. What's the easiest place to buy 1/50th bitcoin? I created a Coinbase account, but that seems US only :(
    - 14y ago
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- benajnim 14y ago
  You are a venture capitalist, yes? ;^)
- elux 14y ago
  Do you want some? I could give you one.
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  Post your BTC address and I'm sure someone will throw a bitcent or two your way. edit: mine is 1BFzpDHT69SrwLXndVogGgoSf5W4A8TMVS if you want to share the love :)
  - Yahivin 14y ago
    Anyone got any bit-pennies for a newb? 16524z1k5Xk8BsEVcSo1ZXLvank4ukUVdE I think Bitcoin or currencies like it will be important in the future so I'm trying to figure it out.
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      2 internets for you sir (0.02 BTC)
  - brezina 14y ago
    sweet! hook a brother up 13d1B83HJZqgwwDUmVDB8dTtmgkp7BK62Q
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      an internet for you sir! (0.01BTC)
      - brezina 14y ago
        gracias amigo
  - loginatnine 14y ago
    Any internet left? :) 1LPjVfUFtwqy1DToVogtT2Fob3du4qXSa5
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      1.1 internets for you sir! Don't spend it all on Satoshi Dice :)

pg 14y ago

Here's an email I sent someone yesterday about it: I am very intrigued by Bitcoin. It has all the signs. Paradigm shift, hackers love it, yet it's derided as a toy. Just like microcomputers.

yabbadabbadoo 14y ago
Any thoughts on the currency vs hoarding issue? Quick background for those unfamiliar with the issue - Bitcoin was built to be a currency, to be used to trade for goods and services. However, a significant portion of BTC is being hoarded and not traded, thus leading some (like Nobel Prize laureate Paul Krugman) to argue that it's not a currency at all, and any value is purely speculative. For the record, I don't agree with Krugman's argument.
- sethist 14y ago
  I also wonder what percentage of the "hoarded currency" is actually currency that has been destroyed and if it will have any long term consequences. For example, in the early days of Bitcoin I mined a few blocks with an old laptop. The computer eventually died without any backup of my wallet thereby destroying the those Bitcoins. There doesn't appear to be anyway for anyone to know whether I am simply hoarding those Bitcoins to dump on the market at a later date or if they have been permanently removed from the money supply.
  - vyrotek 14y ago
    I'm in the same boat. I played around with BitCoin in the early days and never really cared for the coins I earned. I wiped the machine I used and only recently realized they were gone forever. Apparently I just flushed a few hundred bucks, meh.
  - gwern 14y ago
    > There doesn't appear to be anyway for anyone to know whether I am simply hoarding those Bitcoins to dump on the market at a later date or if they have been permanently removed from the money supply. Yeah, this is the big problem with the papers or blog posts pointing out how many coins are not moving around and then insinuating that Bitcoin is a scam or that it will soon be destroyed as an old miner dumps a few hundred thousand coins: for most of them, the parsimonious explanation for them not moving is simply that they've been lost. But there's no way to prove this! Did Satoshi wipe his hard drive when he moved on to other 'projects'? We have no way of knowing. (There apparently are ways to verifiably destroy bitcoins - send them to impossible addresses or something like that - but I haven't heard that anyone has bothered doing that and this wouldn't apply to people losing coins accidentally or apathetically.)