11 ms·

Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

320 points by vellum 14y ago

berlinbrown 14y ago
I live in apartment. Not a micro-one. But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?
- pragone 14y ago
  For me, first, because it's cheaper, and two, because I won't be near people. I certainly enjoy the convenience of living in a city and being in an apartment, but I strongly dislike having so many people near me. I look forward to buying 5 or 10 acres and building a nice 2000sqft home where I can enjoy the outdoors and the lack of people.
- vecinu 14y ago
  This comes down to having freedom and experiencing life on 'a ranch and 20 acres'. If you've never experienced life in such a way, it is almost impossible to understand why people live this way. I for one love having my own washroom and bedroom where I can rest, relax and find silence. Do you think a family of 4 would find comfort in an apartment? I'm fairly sure if money were no object and transportation was near instant, myself and most people I know would choose the ranch and 20 acres.
  - cmarschner 14y ago
    I've grown up in a spacious house and am living now on about 800 sq ft with my wife and a baby. That's more than those people in Hong Kong but, given where I am coming from, it is constraint. My wife is coming from a former communist country. There, 60 sq m were regarded enough for a family, and she feels perfectly comfortable in our space. She wouldn't want more. And in fact it does have some merits: I can clean the apartment in an hour. I am forced to throw things out that I don't really need, which makes my life simpler. And since it allows us to live right in the city I don't really need a car. We can do all grocery shopping by foot, and we have all amenities nearby. That's something you'd miss out on a ranch.
    - will_work4tears 14y ago
      I don't live on a ranch, and don't really have any desire to, but let's play devil's advocate. With a ranch and lots of land, you can grow your own food, raise your own animals and not be tied down to requiring (as much) other people. You don't have to deal with traffic (foot or road), generally anyway, and your neighbors are probably pretty friendly - probably because they don't have to deal with masses of people on a daily basis and aren't stressed out / overly stimulated. You get the night air, the country views and peace and quiet. That goes a long ways for some people. That is something you don't get in a urban setting.
      - eropple 14y ago
        > You get the night air, the country views and peace and quiet. That goes a long ways for some people. That is something you don't get in a urban setting. Country views, not so much, but I live in a city on Massachusetts's South Shore and I get fantastic night air and the place is quiet as a grave after about 9PM.
      - vecinu 14y ago
        You've just described why I want to live in a low population area. Thank you.
  - thisone 14y ago
    Of course a family of 4 can be comfortable in an apartment. Three bedrooms, living area, kitchen, full bathroom with possibly a half bath if it's a larger place. Why couldn't a family of 4 be comfortable?
    - seanp2k2 14y ago
      Bay Area resident here. Most families of 4 are living in a 1br if they're lucky. Plenty of families of 10 doing 2brs etc. Bay Area is seriously a bad choice if you're not in IT or making at least 6 figures combined yearly.
      - vecinu 14y ago
        This is absolutely the truth. I know folks that make 6 figures yearly and still cannot convince themselves to pay $4000-$5000/month for a 2 bedroom.
        dman 14y ago
        And I used to think NYC was bad.
  - waps 14y ago
    I'm fairly sure if money were no object and transportation was near instant, It's 2013 ... why can't we have that ? Surely the technology for this exists. I've always had this dream of "turbolifts" from startrek, the ground-based version. They're basically single-wagon trains that can go horizontally and vertically so they function as elevators. So you get in at the end of the hallway (or even the front door of your room) and you step out at work, or in a public station, or ... The big difference is, of course, that it works like a car. You get in whereever and you get out at home, or vice versa. No trains, no swapping cars, no ... Make it cheap by mass producing small cars. Why can't we build something like that ? Heh, I've even programmed algorithms for routing these things. There are lots of problems of course, the cars need to be extremely reliable, or you need an extremely flexible mechanical design so you can pick broken ones up from rails. But a comfortable, large, elevator takes up much less space than a car, but of course needs much more infrastructure ... Oh well, dreams ...
    - onlyup 14y ago
      Talk about taking the discussion in a different direction..
    - onlyup 14y ago
      Talk about taking the discussion in a different direction..
    - lilsunnybee 14y ago
      It would also cost an insane amount of money, as well as inevitably only being for the very wealthy. You might make things better for yourself but definitely not all of mankind.
- notimetorelax 14y ago
  Do you have children? Or a dog? It is usually a good idea to have one extra room per each member of the family. This way if you want to be alone for a while you can. Or if you want to listen to the music that others don't appreciate you can (headphones can be tiresome to wear).
  - greggman 14y ago
    plenty of cultures don't generally have room to be alone at home. Not saying I don't like the idea. Just pointing out that depending on where someone grows up the idea that they might have alone time at home might seem strange.
    - notimetorelax 14y ago
      Could you name me some of those cultures? What interests me is given the choice would they want to have extra space or not? IMHO good indicator of it is how their rich live.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    Sharing a room with a brother is not that bad. You just learn to share the spaces. If I wanted to be alone, I usually took a walk.
  - JackFr 14y ago
    Baseless. Start it with "I like..." and then it's true.
    - notimetorelax 14y ago
      Maybe it is baseless but I wanted to give a little perspective, to show that it's not always about your wishes. If you live with someone you have to accommodate for their needs as well.
- webwielder 14y ago
  As humans, we tend to aspire to more than absolute necessity. Go too far and it turns into indulgence. Personally, I'd like to continue living in a place that allows for movement beyond 180 degrees of rotation.
- derleth 14y ago
  > But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. No. You, maybe, but not me, and certainly not everyone. And that's not even fully addressing the unstated assumption that everything you 'need' would even fit in an apartment, let alone a micro apartment. Getting rid of things isn't always a good thing to do. Having the ability to be fully packed and ready to move in an hour is a tactic, not a life philosophy.
  - rohamg 14y ago
    Simple living and minimizing material possessions is absolutely a philosophy, and an increasingly popular one at that. Im not sure how you argue otherwise.
    - derleth 14y ago
      > Simple living and minimizing material possessions Not the same thing, which is my point.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    Oh, it can certainly be a life philosophy, but like everything, people change. It really seems to be age related. When you're younger, you tend to have nothing, so embracing minimalism seems like a good way to go. As we get older and achieve some level of success, a better quality of life tends to follow, and with it more material possessions. Later, perhaps when we become aware of the number, and perhaps the burden (maintenance, storage space, etc) of all those things, minimalism again starts to look good. Right now I'm waiting for the kids to grow up and leave so I can talk the wife into us living on a boat :-)
  - rokhayakebe 14y ago
    It certainly can be a philosophy. For the past 6 months I've lived in a tiny place away from my apartment, where (the apartment) I only spent 6 nights in during the same time. I am being convinced increasingly I do not need, or even WANT, the extra space. Were I to find a companion who shared this view, I think I could live this way for several years, if not for the remainder of my natural life.
- OGinparadise 14y ago
  "Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?" Why do you need to eat three square meals a day? Why do you need a $1000+ PC? Why do you need $50+ jeans? Why do you need....
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    I really hope that your point here was to underline that indeed, you don't.
  - lilsunnybee 14y ago
    being able to afford to eat 3 meals a day is much different than owning a $1000 PC, or $50 jeans. what is your point exactly?
    - OGinparadise 14y ago
      My point as that "Needs" and "wants" and "desires" are totally different. While no one may need a 20 acre backyard, many will love it.
- matthewrudy 14y ago
  I've lived in Hong Kong for 3 years, normally in a room about 150sqft. And the biggest consequences of living this way are; – no kitchen, I have to eat out every day, which makes me fat - no sofa or decent desk – I have to lie on my bed all the time, bad for my back – no space for guests – can only hang out in restaurants and bars, which makes relationships a bit more distant All this has an effect on society and culture over here, and it's pretty bad.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  What does need have to do with it? If people want to live in a "cozy" apartment in the heart of a bustling city or if they want to live on a ranch home with 20 acres, and can afford to do so, why shouldn't they?
- Too 14y ago
  Try to store one, or maybe even two expensive and dirty mountain bikes in an apartment. Especially with a crazy girlfriend around.
  - paganel 14y ago
    I live in a studio apartment in an Eastern-European capital city and you're right, there's no room for a bike in here. Well, tough luck for me, it means I'll only bike whenever I care enough about it to rent one.
  - thisone 14y ago
    clean the bikes, get a wall rack, and dump the girlfriend (which might get you down to one bike)
  - seanp2k2 14y ago
    You better NOT be putting your expensive bikes away dirty, sir!
  - fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
    I lived in China for a bit. I only had bikes while I was there. I hated hauling the damn things up the stairs.
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  Well, I live in a "ranch size" home on 10 acres. Why? Actually I'd rather have 20 acres, or 100, but within the constraints we set, this is what we could (barely) afford. I like my own space and I consider it one of the things I "need." In fact, it's way up there in terms of priority. Your "needs" may be different. I've lived in large, medium, and small cities and I simply prefer to live in a low-density area. Now, about the house itself, it's too big: I'd prefer something about 1/3 the size. Unfortunately, it's impossible to find a small house on a large acreage unless you want to commute over an hour to work and no bank will lend the money to build one.
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Who is wealthy enough to live on a 20 acre ranch anyways? This is not a real issue.
  - dagw 14y ago
    If I don't care about the location of said ranch, I just found several options that I could buy for basically the same price as my current 650 sq ft. apartment.
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Most of the world has only the things they need, if they even have that. It isn't a choice. And there isn't as much solace in being unsure whether you can eat tomorrow or not as you might think.
mediumdeviation 14y ago
The source of these images, http://www.soco.org.hk/cagehome/ http://www.soco.org.hk/cagehome/, is an intriguing (if somewhat poorly executed) advocacy-cum-exhibition site. For those who don't want to click through, the site first present you with a fake Firefox popup, with the only a close button. Each time you close one of them, new ones will appear in greater numbers. Do this three times, and your screen will be filled with popup and a message that translate roughly to: > Ignoring the housing problem will only make it worse, help us change the status quo! > Our city may be beautiful on the surface, but underneath all that 10 000 hardworking low income workers are unable to share the fruit of our success. Families are forced to live in apartments with an average area of 40 square feet. They need your help to improve their lives; forward this email, help promote social justice!
deleted 14y ago
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redact207 14y ago
It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.
- nineteenturtles 14y ago
  Makes problems like my code not compiling seem rather small.
- rhplus 14y ago
  The 'cage' appears to be so that resident can lock their belongings inside when they aren't there (you can see padlocks hanging on the doors of some). I can't really offer much of a useful statement on the realities of being chronically homeless (which is what these men essentially are) in a big city or on the root causes of the situation in Hong Kong, both social and economic. But I can say that the immediate needs of shelter, which come with a lack of space, privacy and security, are very likely to exist very close to home for anyone living in a big city. Here are some examples of sleeping arrangements for homeless in Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle and Los Angeles (some are emergency shelters, some are permanent): http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/01/16/HomelessShelter.main/largest.jpg http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/01/16/Homel... http://triblocal.com/glen-ellyn/files/cache/2011/08/OTE-sea-of-shelter-beds.jpg/460_345_resize.jpg http://triblocal.com/glen-ellyn/files/cache/2011/08/OTE-sea-... http://commongroundwa.org/people/images/portlet-images/PortletYoungAdultShelter.jpg http://commongroundwa.org/people/images/portlet-images/Portl... http://test.housing1000sv.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/shelter-beds1.jpg http://test.housing1000sv.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/she...
  - hmsimha 14y ago
    That was the second thought that occurred to me as well (the first was to be absolutely horrified). The reporter said the rent for one of those cages is 12 (AUD I believe) per month. Likewise, that only left each cage dweller with 13 AUD per day from their welfare check for other expenses (which the narrator said was not enough to afford 3 meals every day after other expenses). So if the cost of living in a cage for a month is roughly the cost of 3 meals (though that must be calculated at the cost of eating out, because even in the US you can eat quite well on $13 a day if you are frugal and know how to cook and budget) then they are spending less than many U.S. homeless shelters charge (it's not uncommon for homeless shelters to charge anywhere from $5-12 per night here). It's by no means a comfortable lifestyle, but it's better than being homeless and I believe many Americans receiving welfare and/or disability actually have far less buying power with what they receive, considering it's usually not nearly enough to meet rent, utilities, and food and transportation costs).
sigil 14y ago
See also "100x100," a collection of 10 ft by 10 ft Hong Kong apartments photographed by Michael Wolf. The use of space in some of these is just amazing. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.404783143152.173014.340072008152&type=3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.404783143152.173014...
- rokhayakebe 14y ago
  When I look at these pictures, it makes me think the problem is being single.
loser777 14y ago
Really surprising to see such photos after watching some ancient footage (early 1990s) of the Kowloon Walled City recently. I'd thought that there were no more tiny living spaces.
wallflower 14y ago
See also the now demolished Kowloon Walled City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City
robryan 14y ago
What kind of mobility do these people have? Could they choose to move to somewhere in rural China and get something of decent size?
- wyuenho 14y ago
  Very little. Most people actually would rather stay in HK to take advantage of the better education and healthcare system for their children than moving to China for a __slightly__ more affordable place. HK is also a much safer city to live in. The food is generally safe and the police is fair and professional. Commuting between HK and China is also a big problem. Most jobs in HK are in the urban areas in HK, commuting from Shenzhen or elsewhere to those areas daily can take a huge chunk of money out of their wages, let alone the 3-4 hours they have to spend commuting.
  - matthewrudy 14y ago
    Having commuted from Shenzhen for a few months, it seems a lot of people do actually do this. Mostly younger people though. The night buses from wanchai are full of HKers heading home to SZ.
    - wyuenho 14y ago
      I used to work with people who commute from Island South to SZ, but they only do it on Friday night and come back on Monday morning. In general, people living cages neither have the money nor time to commute.
  - wilfra 14y ago
    You're saying housing prices on the mainland are only slightly more affordable than in HK? That's absurdly inaccurate. Housing is cheap on the mainland outside of prime areas of big cities. The job market is another story, the earning power in Hong Kong is much better - along with the other things you mentioned. Many of these people are trying to make a better life for themselves and especially their children. To get there, they are dealing with horrible living conditions. I salute them for that. My grandfather did something similar coming to America from Italy and his whole family is eternally grateful. Future generations of HKers are going to feel the same way.
JeremyMorgan 14y ago
Call me crazy, but I've always thought if I were a single guy with no family, I could live in something like this. I follow a couple of pages on Facebook about minimal living and think that it wouldn't be all that bad to have a one room place that has all the facilities needed. It sucks that so many are left with no choice in the matter though.
- daeken 14y ago
  I thought the exact same. Then I lived in NYC for a year and a half in something like 180sqft. Never, ever again. Even things like having two other people in the place was uncomfortable. There was space for a full bed and a small desk and nothing more. There was no usable kitchen. It seems like something that can be dealt with, but doing it really, really sucks.
  - cantbecool 14y ago
    I mean isn't that twice the size of a dorm room? It could not have been that bad.
    - matthewrudy 14y ago
      I don't know what US dorms are like, but I'd guess they have some shared space to stretch out in. Maybe a kitchen or lounge. But what we're talking about is the room, and nothing else. That's not a great way to live.
      - deleted 14y ago
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      - cglace 14y ago
        My dorm room was a bunk with a futon under it with a very small desk to the side. It wasn't ideal but fine considering I spent most of my time somewhere else.
    - zanny 14y ago
deleted 14y ago
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lignuist 14y ago
Mongolia's capital Ulaan Baatar is also called the coldest capital in the world. Harsh temperatures during the winters force the poorest people to live in the canalization, where are heating pipes: http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/mongolian-homeless-living-underground-in-sewers.html http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/mongolian-homeless-l... I think, it cannot get worse than that.
- kiiski 14y ago
  Sure it can. Just make the heating pipes inaccessible.
  - lignuist 14y ago
    This would "solve" the problem within one winter...
    - waps 14y ago
      The French revolutionaries actually did that. They killed the poor. How ? Simple : they washed their clothes, then sent them back into the cold.
irmbrady 14y ago
As someone who is moving from the UK to HK in 3 months, with no job or visa secured, and attempting to bootstrap my (first) startup; this scares the crap out of me!
- steholmes 14y ago
  Are you moving to HK for a specific reason? As it's one of the world's most expensive places and although things are slowly improving it's not a particularly great place for startups.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Ya, HK is pretty much dominated by financial; no one goes there to work in tech, and there isn't much of a talent pipeline. Singapore, Bangkok, Shenzhen, shanghai, Beijing are better. Coincidentally, I'm in HK on holiday going back to Beijing tomorrow. I'm suffocating in this small hotel room....my wife did a lot of shopping, though.
kevcampb 14y ago
Does anyone have any idea of the costs of building vertically? I ask as I generally love the idea of sky-rise buildings and high density housing. To me, Hong Kong feels almost utopian - like some sort of architects' playground. Stick thin apartments rising up through hillsides. Super dense housing, but the ability to travel 30 minutes and be in remarkable countryside. It really is remarkable. I'd love to think this is the way forward, and regardless of opinion it seems the way the world is moving. People are migrating to mega cities, the world is urbanising. I guess the efficiencies you gain living this way are part of a real draw there. You don't need a car. Mass transport is cheap and efficient. Which makes me wonder how Hong Kong's housing situation can be so dire. Even for the well off, the costs are prohibitive, and I dread to think how the poor manage.
- deleted 14y ago
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- riffic 14y ago
  On the other hand, it has been argued that skyscrapers can be detrimental. In A Pattern Language it's stated that "There is abundant evidence to show that high buildings make people crazy", and it goes further to propose a pattern of a four-story limit for dense urban areas.
  - michaelochurch 14y ago
    In A Pattern Language it's stated that "There is abundant evidence to show that high buildings make people crazy", and it goes further to propose a pattern of a four-story limit for dense urban areas. Fucking terrible idea. I almost certainly know more about mental illness than you do. What makes people crazy in urban areas is expensive real estate. It's not signing the ridiculous rent checks that does it-- that's just annoying. However, moving involuntarily-- especially when due to adverse economic circumstances-- has a huge detrimental effect on mental health, even inducing illnesses such as schizophrenia[0] which might otherwise be thought to be purely biological. [0] Schizophrenia, like cancer and depression, probably isn't one disease. There are at least 5 different schizophrenias. Next to genetics and drug abuse, the strongest predictor for mental illness is whether a person had to move involuntarily for economic reasons. Traditionally, this was a cause for the high rate of mental illness in urban areas. (However, the recent housing catastrophe was a mostly suburban phenomenon; we'll see in about 10 years if that results in suburban MI levels exceeding urban ones) If you ban high-rises, real estate costs become extreme. Just look at what it costs to live in the Village if you don't believe me. Or look at San Francisco's problem. It's not nearly as dense as New York, but almost as expensive because of the NIMBY assholes. Bad bad bad fucking idea.
netcan 14y ago
This is how urban poverty looks. It looked similar in Europe too. They called them Tenements here and every self respecting character in Irish fiction grows up in one.
tuananh 14y ago
Same goes for Vietnam. There're houses like 1/1.5 meters width. No bed, furniture whatsoever.
jib 14y ago
I lived in a 9 m^2 apartment (with some extra storage) for 3 years (cheap rent in Paris was nice). It was mostly fine, except you end up hearing neighbors. If not for that, it was pretty good. It had tradeoffs tho, apartment was next to castle of Versailles so lots of nature near. If you are single and there are outside areas to escape to, small living was ok for me at least. Poverty vs choice of living small makes a lot of difference for how it is. Small isn't inherently bad, surroundings matter.
- brador 14y ago
  How much was that and how long ago?
  - jib 14y ago
    400 euro/month around 5-10 years ago.
    - arrrg 14y ago
      That’s cheap? Wow. If it’s close to Versailles it’s well outside Paris. I’m now moving into a 17sqft mini apartment (just for four months), one metro station from the center of Hamburg (20 min to my very central workplace, including a ten minute bus ride to the next metro station plus walking and waiting times). I will pay 270 euro/month for it, including heat and electricity. You can get more spacious apartments in similar places in Hamburg for about 500 Euro/month. If you share an apartment with roommates you might even pay less than 400 Euro. Is Paris really so much more expensive, even well outside the city? I mean, Hamburg (and Munich and now also Berlin) are already making headlines for their crazy expensive rents.
      - Someone 14y ago
        Are you sure you have your units right? You can just put a bed on 17sqft, but you could not also have a door swinging inwards or even place to stand next to that bed (https://www.google.nl/search?q=17+sq+ft+in+sq+meters https://www.google.nl/search?q=17+sq+ft+in+sq+meters)
greggman 14y ago
Japan also has many fairly small apartments. Here's a few in the 5-6 sq meter range http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004728000466001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004728000466001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004509001707001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004509001707001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01003440000826001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01003440000826001/ A bigger list shows a lot more in the 10-12 sq meter sizes http://www.chintai.net/tokyo/search/ensen/List.do?e=101001&cf=0&ct=0&k=1&m=0&sf=0&st=0&b=1&b=2&b=3&h=&j= http://www.chintai.net/tokyo/search/ensen/List.do?e=101001&#... 10-12 seems small in my experience but I have many friends in the 14-16 range
icebraining 14y ago
I find it odd that whoever build those houses decided to make tiny apartments instead of larger shared ones. For cooking, having a shared kitchen - even if used by many families - would probably help a lot, specially since it's cheaper and easier to make a big communal meal than having to cook for each family.
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  People value not sharing space a lot. In first world countries most of the worst things about being poor come from being surrounded by other poor people. Communal cooking is more efficient at basically every scale from 2 peson household up, where at its most egalitarian it's just taking turns to cook. But I am aware of no modern culture where most people eat communal meals; in fact the only exceptions I'm aware of are total institutions like prisons, monasteries or the military.
  - acgourley 14y ago
    Nearly all dinners are communal in the many cohousing[1] communities in Denmark. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing
  - VLM 14y ago
    "no modern culture where most people eat communal meals" The blue collar lunchroom. A direct descendant of the school lunchroom. As for anecdotes, the last time I ate in a communal lunchroom was the last manual labor job I had around 1994 while in school, since then its all been eating at the desk, runnin errands, going out. My employers have all had empty lunchrooms as an anachronism, more a place to keep the coffee makers and fridges and junk food machines. Once in awhile you'll see like 4 people in a 300 person company in the lunchroom eating together, or they have birthday parties/meetings in the "lunch"room.
    - RougeFemme 14y ago
      I'd add cororate cafeterias to that, especially those are subsidized. But this is for a larger company, at least 1,000 employees or so. And there's a mix of "blue-collar" and "white-collar" employees using it. And the utilization is a lot better - closer to 60%, plus whatever % of building tenant. And while many of the people do take the food and run back to their cubes, the cafeteria is also almost full of people taking communal meals.
SuperChihuahua 14y ago
Here in Sweden, we have students who have to live in old military-tents because of a crappy housing market. http://www.sydsvenskan.se/lund/husvilla-lth-studenter-tvingas-bo-i-militartalt/ http://www.sydsvenskan.se/lund/husvilla-lth-studenter-tvinga...
- protomyth 14y ago
  Western ND is pretty bad housing wise also. A lot of campers. You know its going to be bad when the oil companies buy hotels.
brudgers 14y ago
These are about the size of one of Florida's maximum security prison cells. "Cells within the Cell Housing Unit have one or two bunks and lockers for personal items. Generally, inmates who require a higher level of supervision are housed in this type of cell. Cells range in size from 7 feet wide to 10 feet 8 inches or 14 feet long. " In 2011, Florida had just over 100,000 people in prison (that does not include jails or Federal prisons). http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/vtour/securecell.include http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/vtour/securecell.include http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/faq.html http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/faq.html
blaze33 14y ago
Reminds me of the famous french Foundation Abbé Pierre poster campaign in winter 2008. The tagline was: "12m² for a poster, this is normal, but for a family?". * http://goo.gl/zhqd3 http://goo.gl/zhqd3 (translated blog post) or * http://www.bddpunlimited.com/node/2435 http://www.bddpunlimited.com/node/2435 (scroll to "toutes les créations" for a slideshow, js + flash needed)
ehmuidifici 14y ago
So you all must need to know whats going on with real state in Brazil. Appartments prices here are in a almost insane prices. Houses? In most big cities(Sao Paulo, Rio, Porto Alegre), you can't buy a middle-class house with no more less than 500k (yeah, US dollars).
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  Real estate is one of those issues that can quickly separate smart people from mouth-breathing idiots. Mouth-breathing idiots see expensive real estate and think it's a good thing. They clap their fat, ugly hands together. "People really want to live here!" Smart people realize that expensive real estate is a sign of something that's gone seriously wrong, since high prices have more to do with supply problems (inelasticity) than demand. Regulatory corruption, deficient transportation, and damaged environments are usually behind expensive real estate. It's not something to be celebrated. It's a disease.
mark_l_watson 14y ago
I owned two small cruising sailboats for 20+ years so I can relate a bit to very crowded living conditions. Those pictures showed people coping with small spaces, for example with the high shelves for food staples. Families can cope with a crowded environment, especially little kids who are probably happy being right next to their parents, but with teenagers at home I can't imagine how it would work.
jordanbaucke 14y ago
Just stayed in hong kong for a week earlier this month, and I can testify to the multigenerational apartments, and government subsidized ownership. I stayed in an apartment I rented from AirBnB which was awesome (for 2 people). I noticed other families in the same building where staying in the same sized places but had parents, adult children, and grandchildren living in bunk-beds. This was in "Central", which struck me as a poor place for a family (apartments of this size ~350sqft were being listed for close to $1 million usd ($7.5~$8 million HK) but than if you had some sort of government price control when the building was built than it made more sense.
eliben 14y ago
It's funny how every piece of news can be immediately retargeted as a diatribe against the ever-evil "rich bankers".
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Its because the standard of living of many bankers is disgustingly lavish compared to the people they exploit.
zubentok 14y ago
I thought communism was all about human equality. Guess it's true that you are communist until you get rich, feminist until you get married etc..
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Hong Kong is unique. Even if China was truly communist, HK has operated differently.
- meepmorp 14y ago
  It's worth noting that Hong Kong was under British control till 1997, and largely retains its independence from mainland China. It has its own constitution, and the existing capitalist system was left intact, as part of the transfer agreement between the UK and China. Not that China isn't chock full of disparities between better and worse off people despite the putative ideals of the communist state, but Hong Kong isn't a good example of such.

320 points by vellum 14y ago

I live in apartment. Not a micro-one. But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?

pragone 14y ago
For me, first, because it's cheaper, and two, because I won't be near people. I certainly enjoy the convenience of living in a city and being in an apartment, but I strongly dislike having so many people near me. I look forward to buying 5 or 10 acres and building a nice 2000sqft home where I can enjoy the outdoors and the lack of people.
vecinu 14y ago
This comes down to having freedom and experiencing life on 'a ranch and 20 acres'. If you've never experienced life in such a way, it is almost impossible to understand why people live this way. I for one love having my own washroom and bedroom where I can rest, relax and find silence. Do you think a family of 4 would find comfort in an apartment? I'm fairly sure if money were no object and transportation was near instant, myself and most people I know would choose the ranch and 20 acres.
- cmarschner 14y ago
  I've grown up in a spacious house and am living now on about 800 sq ft with my wife and a baby. That's more than those people in Hong Kong but, given where I am coming from, it is constraint. My wife is coming from a former communist country. There, 60 sq m were regarded enough for a family, and she feels perfectly comfortable in our space. She wouldn't want more. And in fact it does have some merits: I can clean the apartment in an hour. I am forced to throw things out that I don't really need, which makes my life simpler. And since it allows us to live right in the city I don't really need a car. We can do all grocery shopping by foot, and we have all amenities nearby. That's something you'd miss out on a ranch.
  - will_work4tears 14y ago
    I don't live on a ranch, and don't really have any desire to, but let's play devil's advocate. With a ranch and lots of land, you can grow your own food, raise your own animals and not be tied down to requiring (as much) other people. You don't have to deal with traffic (foot or road), generally anyway, and your neighbors are probably pretty friendly - probably because they don't have to deal with masses of people on a daily basis and aren't stressed out / overly stimulated. You get the night air, the country views and peace and quiet. That goes a long ways for some people. That is something you don't get in a urban setting.
    - eropple 14y ago
      > You get the night air, the country views and peace and quiet. That goes a long ways for some people. That is something you don't get in a urban setting. Country views, not so much, but I live in a city on Massachusetts's South Shore and I get fantastic night air and the place is quiet as a grave after about 9PM.
    - vecinu 14y ago
      You've just described why I want to live in a low population area. Thank you.
- thisone 14y ago
  Of course a family of 4 can be comfortable in an apartment. Three bedrooms, living area, kitchen, full bathroom with possibly a half bath if it's a larger place. Why couldn't a family of 4 be comfortable?
  - seanp2k2 14y ago
    Bay Area resident here. Most families of 4 are living in a 1br if they're lucky. Plenty of families of 10 doing 2brs etc. Bay Area is seriously a bad choice if you're not in IT or making at least 6 figures combined yearly.
    - vecinu 14y ago
      This is absolutely the truth. I know folks that make 6 figures yearly and still cannot convince themselves to pay $4000-$5000/month for a 2 bedroom.
      - dman 14y ago
        And I used to think NYC was bad.
- waps 14y ago
  I'm fairly sure if money were no object and transportation was near instant, It's 2013 ... why can't we have that ? Surely the technology for this exists. I've always had this dream of "turbolifts" from startrek, the ground-based version. They're basically single-wagon trains that can go horizontally and vertically so they function as elevators. So you get in at the end of the hallway (or even the front door of your room) and you step out at work, or in a public station, or ... The big difference is, of course, that it works like a car. You get in whereever and you get out at home, or vice versa. No trains, no swapping cars, no ... Make it cheap by mass producing small cars. Why can't we build something like that ? Heh, I've even programmed algorithms for routing these things. There are lots of problems of course, the cars need to be extremely reliable, or you need an extremely flexible mechanical design so you can pick broken ones up from rails. But a comfortable, large, elevator takes up much less space than a car, but of course needs much more infrastructure ... Oh well, dreams ...
  - onlyup 14y ago
    Talk about taking the discussion in a different direction..
  - onlyup 14y ago
    Talk about taking the discussion in a different direction..
  - lilsunnybee 14y ago
    It would also cost an insane amount of money, as well as inevitably only being for the very wealthy. You might make things better for yourself but definitely not all of mankind.
notimetorelax 14y ago
Do you have children? Or a dog? It is usually a good idea to have one extra room per each member of the family. This way if you want to be alone for a while you can. Or if you want to listen to the music that others don't appreciate you can (headphones can be tiresome to wear).
- greggman 14y ago
  plenty of cultures don't generally have room to be alone at home. Not saying I don't like the idea. Just pointing out that depending on where someone grows up the idea that they might have alone time at home might seem strange.
  - notimetorelax 14y ago
    Could you name me some of those cultures? What interests me is given the choice would they want to have extra space or not? IMHO good indicator of it is how their rich live.
- icebraining 14y ago
  Sharing a room with a brother is not that bad. You just learn to share the spaces. If I wanted to be alone, I usually took a walk.
- JackFr 14y ago
  Baseless. Start it with "I like..." and then it's true.
  - notimetorelax 14y ago
    Maybe it is baseless but I wanted to give a little perspective, to show that it's not always about your wishes. If you live with someone you have to accommodate for their needs as well.
webwielder 14y ago
As humans, we tend to aspire to more than absolute necessity. Go too far and it turns into indulgence. Personally, I'd like to continue living in a place that allows for movement beyond 180 degrees of rotation.
derleth 14y ago
> But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. No. You, maybe, but not me, and certainly not everyone. And that's not even fully addressing the unstated assumption that everything you 'need' would even fit in an apartment, let alone a micro apartment. Getting rid of things isn't always a good thing to do. Having the ability to be fully packed and ready to move in an hour is a tactic, not a life philosophy.
- rohamg 14y ago
  Simple living and minimizing material possessions is absolutely a philosophy, and an increasingly popular one at that. Im not sure how you argue otherwise.
  - derleth 14y ago
    > Simple living and minimizing material possessions Not the same thing, which is my point.
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  Oh, it can certainly be a life philosophy, but like everything, people change. It really seems to be age related. When you're younger, you tend to have nothing, so embracing minimalism seems like a good way to go. As we get older and achieve some level of success, a better quality of life tends to follow, and with it more material possessions. Later, perhaps when we become aware of the number, and perhaps the burden (maintenance, storage space, etc) of all those things, minimalism again starts to look good. Right now I'm waiting for the kids to grow up and leave so I can talk the wife into us living on a boat :-)
- rokhayakebe 14y ago
  It certainly can be a philosophy. For the past 6 months I've lived in a tiny place away from my apartment, where (the apartment) I only spent 6 nights in during the same time. I am being convinced increasingly I do not need, or even WANT, the extra space. Were I to find a companion who shared this view, I think I could live this way for several years, if not for the remainder of my natural life.
OGinparadise 14y ago
"Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?" Why do you need to eat three square meals a day? Why do you need a $1000+ PC? Why do you need $50+ jeans? Why do you need....
- tripzilch 14y ago
  I really hope that your point here was to underline that indeed, you don't.
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  being able to afford to eat 3 meals a day is much different than owning a $1000 PC, or $50 jeans. what is your point exactly?
  - OGinparadise 14y ago
    My point as that "Needs" and "wants" and "desires" are totally different. While no one may need a 20 acre backyard, many will love it.
matthewrudy 14y ago
I've lived in Hong Kong for 3 years, normally in a room about 150sqft. And the biggest consequences of living this way are; – no kitchen, I have to eat out every day, which makes me fat - no sofa or decent desk – I have to lie on my bed all the time, bad for my back – no space for guests – can only hang out in restaurants and bars, which makes relationships a bit more distant All this has an effect on society and culture over here, and it's pretty bad.
- deleted 14y ago
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InclinedPlane 14y ago
What does need have to do with it? If people want to live in a "cozy" apartment in the heart of a bustling city or if they want to live on a ranch home with 20 acres, and can afford to do so, why shouldn't they?
Too 14y ago
Try to store one, or maybe even two expensive and dirty mountain bikes in an apartment. Especially with a crazy girlfriend around.
- paganel 14y ago
  I live in a studio apartment in an Eastern-European capital city and you're right, there's no room for a bike in here. Well, tough luck for me, it means I'll only bike whenever I care enough about it to rent one.
- thisone 14y ago
  clean the bikes, get a wall rack, and dump the girlfriend (which might get you down to one bike)
- seanp2k2 14y ago
  You better NOT be putting your expensive bikes away dirty, sir!
- fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
  I lived in China for a bit. I only had bikes while I was there. I hated hauling the damn things up the stairs.
HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
Well, I live in a "ranch size" home on 10 acres. Why? Actually I'd rather have 20 acres, or 100, but within the constraints we set, this is what we could (barely) afford. I like my own space and I consider it one of the things I "need." In fact, it's way up there in terms of priority. Your "needs" may be different. I've lived in large, medium, and small cities and I simply prefer to live in a low-density area. Now, about the house itself, it's too big: I'd prefer something about 1/3 the size. Unfortunately, it's impossible to find a small house on a large acreage unless you want to commute over an hour to work and no bank will lend the money to build one.
lilsunnybee 14y ago
Who is wealthy enough to live on a 20 acre ranch anyways? This is not a real issue.
- dagw 14y ago
  If I don't care about the location of said ranch, I just found several options that I could buy for basically the same price as my current 650 sq ft. apartment.
lilsunnybee 14y ago
Most of the world has only the things they need, if they even have that. It isn't a choice. And there isn't as much solace in being unsure whether you can eat tomorrow or not as you might think.

mediumdeviation 14y ago

The source of these images, http://www.soco.org.hk/cagehome/ http://www.soco.org.hk/cagehome/, is an intriguing (if somewhat poorly executed) advocacy-cum-exhibition site. For those who don't want to click through, the site first present you with a fake Firefox popup, with the only a close button. Each time you close one of them, new ones will appear in greater numbers. Do this three times, and your screen will be filled with popup and a message that translate roughly to: > Ignoring the housing problem will only make it worse, help us change the status quo! > Our city may be beautiful on the surface, but underneath all that 10 000 hardworking low income workers are unable to share the fruit of our success. Families are forced to live in apartments with an average area of 40 square feet. They need your help to improve their lives; forward this email, help promote social justice!

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redact207 14y ago

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

nineteenturtles 14y ago
Makes problems like my code not compiling seem rather small.
rhplus 14y ago
The 'cage' appears to be so that resident can lock their belongings inside when they aren't there (you can see padlocks hanging on the doors of some). I can't really offer much of a useful statement on the realities of being chronically homeless (which is what these men essentially are) in a big city or on the root causes of the situation in Hong Kong, both social and economic. But I can say that the immediate needs of shelter, which come with a lack of space, privacy and security, are very likely to exist very close to home for anyone living in a big city. Here are some examples of sleeping arrangements for homeless in Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle and Los Angeles (some are emergency shelters, some are permanent): http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/01/16/HomelessShelter.main/largest.jpg http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/01/16/Homel... http://triblocal.com/glen-ellyn/files/cache/2011/08/OTE-sea-of-shelter-beds.jpg/460_345_resize.jpg http://triblocal.com/glen-ellyn/files/cache/2011/08/OTE-sea-... http://commongroundwa.org/people/images/portlet-images/PortletYoungAdultShelter.jpg http://commongroundwa.org/people/images/portlet-images/Portl... http://test.housing1000sv.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/shelter-beds1.jpg http://test.housing1000sv.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/she...
- hmsimha 14y ago
  That was the second thought that occurred to me as well (the first was to be absolutely horrified). The reporter said the rent for one of those cages is 12 (AUD I believe) per month. Likewise, that only left each cage dweller with 13 AUD per day from their welfare check for other expenses (which the narrator said was not enough to afford 3 meals every day after other expenses). So if the cost of living in a cage for a month is roughly the cost of 3 meals (though that must be calculated at the cost of eating out, because even in the US you can eat quite well on $13 a day if you are frugal and know how to cook and budget) then they are spending less than many U.S. homeless shelters charge (it's not uncommon for homeless shelters to charge anywhere from $5-12 per night here). It's by no means a comfortable lifestyle, but it's better than being homeless and I believe many Americans receiving welfare and/or disability actually have far less buying power with what they receive, considering it's usually not nearly enough to meet rent, utilities, and food and transportation costs).

sigil 14y ago

See also "100x100," a collection of 10 ft by 10 ft Hong Kong apartments photographed by Michael Wolf. The use of space in some of these is just amazing. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.404783143152.173014.340072008152&type=3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.404783143152.173014...

rokhayakebe 14y ago
When I look at these pictures, it makes me think the problem is being single.

loser777 14y ago

Really surprising to see such photos after watching some ancient footage (early 1990s) of the Kowloon Walled City recently. I'd thought that there were no more tiny living spaces.

wallflower 14y ago

See also the now demolished Kowloon Walled City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

robryan 14y ago

What kind of mobility do these people have? Could they choose to move to somewhere in rural China and get something of decent size?

wyuenho 14y ago
Very little. Most people actually would rather stay in HK to take advantage of the better education and healthcare system for their children than moving to China for a __slightly__ more affordable place. HK is also a much safer city to live in. The food is generally safe and the police is fair and professional. Commuting between HK and China is also a big problem. Most jobs in HK are in the urban areas in HK, commuting from Shenzhen or elsewhere to those areas daily can take a huge chunk of money out of their wages, let alone the 3-4 hours they have to spend commuting.
- matthewrudy 14y ago
  Having commuted from Shenzhen for a few months, it seems a lot of people do actually do this. Mostly younger people though. The night buses from wanchai are full of HKers heading home to SZ.
  - wyuenho 14y ago
    I used to work with people who commute from Island South to SZ, but they only do it on Friday night and come back on Monday morning. In general, people living cages neither have the money nor time to commute.
- wilfra 14y ago
  You're saying housing prices on the mainland are only slightly more affordable than in HK? That's absurdly inaccurate. Housing is cheap on the mainland outside of prime areas of big cities. The job market is another story, the earning power in Hong Kong is much better - along with the other things you mentioned. Many of these people are trying to make a better life for themselves and especially their children. To get there, they are dealing with horrible living conditions. I salute them for that. My grandfather did something similar coming to America from Italy and his whole family is eternally grateful. Future generations of HKers are going to feel the same way.

JeremyMorgan 14y ago

Call me crazy, but I've always thought if I were a single guy with no family, I could live in something like this. I follow a couple of pages on Facebook about minimal living and think that it wouldn't be all that bad to have a one room place that has all the facilities needed. It sucks that so many are left with no choice in the matter though.

daeken 14y ago
I thought the exact same. Then I lived in NYC for a year and a half in something like 180sqft. Never, ever again. Even things like having two other people in the place was uncomfortable. There was space for a full bed and a small desk and nothing more. There was no usable kitchen. It seems like something that can be dealt with, but doing it really, really sucks.
- cantbecool 14y ago
  I mean isn't that twice the size of a dorm room? It could not have been that bad.
  - matthewrudy 14y ago
    I don't know what US dorms are like, but I'd guess they have some shared space to stretch out in. Maybe a kitchen or lounge. But what we're talking about is the room, and nothing else. That's not a great way to live.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - cglace 14y ago
      My dorm room was a bunk with a futon under it with a very small desk to the side. It wasn't ideal but fine considering I spent most of my time somewhere else.
  - zanny 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

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lignuist 14y ago

Mongolia's capital Ulaan Baatar is also called the coldest capital in the world. Harsh temperatures during the winters force the poorest people to live in the canalization, where are heating pipes: http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/mongolian-homeless-living-underground-in-sewers.html http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/mongolian-homeless-l... I think, it cannot get worse than that.

kiiski 14y ago
Sure it can. Just make the heating pipes inaccessible.
- lignuist 14y ago
  This would "solve" the problem within one winter...
  - waps 14y ago
    The French revolutionaries actually did that. They killed the poor. How ? Simple : they washed their clothes, then sent them back into the cold.

irmbrady 14y ago

As someone who is moving from the UK to HK in 3 months, with no job or visa secured, and attempting to bootstrap my (first) startup; this scares the crap out of me!

steholmes 14y ago
Are you moving to HK for a specific reason? As it's one of the world's most expensive places and although things are slowly improving it's not a particularly great place for startups.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Ya, HK is pretty much dominated by financial; no one goes there to work in tech, and there isn't much of a talent pipeline. Singapore, Bangkok, Shenzhen, shanghai, Beijing are better. Coincidentally, I'm in HK on holiday going back to Beijing tomorrow. I'm suffocating in this small hotel room....my wife did a lot of shopping, though.

kevcampb 14y ago

Does anyone have any idea of the costs of building vertically? I ask as I generally love the idea of sky-rise buildings and high density housing. To me, Hong Kong feels almost utopian - like some sort of architects' playground. Stick thin apartments rising up through hillsides. Super dense housing, but the ability to travel 30 minutes and be in remarkable countryside. It really is remarkable. I'd love to think this is the way forward, and regardless of opinion it seems the way the world is moving. People are migrating to mega cities, the world is urbanising. I guess the efficiencies you gain living this way are part of a real draw there. You don't need a car. Mass transport is cheap and efficient. Which makes me wonder how Hong Kong's housing situation can be so dire. Even for the well off, the costs are prohibitive, and I dread to think how the poor manage.

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riffic 14y ago
On the other hand, it has been argued that skyscrapers can be detrimental. In A Pattern Language it's stated that "There is abundant evidence to show that high buildings make people crazy", and it goes further to propose a pattern of a four-story limit for dense urban areas.
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  In A Pattern Language it's stated that "There is abundant evidence to show that high buildings make people crazy", and it goes further to propose a pattern of a four-story limit for dense urban areas. Fucking terrible idea. I almost certainly know more about mental illness than you do. What makes people crazy in urban areas is expensive real estate. It's not signing the ridiculous rent checks that does it-- that's just annoying. However, moving involuntarily-- especially when due to adverse economic circumstances-- has a huge detrimental effect on mental health, even inducing illnesses such as schizophrenia[0] which might otherwise be thought to be purely biological. [0] Schizophrenia, like cancer and depression, probably isn't one disease. There are at least 5 different schizophrenias. Next to genetics and drug abuse, the strongest predictor for mental illness is whether a person had to move involuntarily for economic reasons. Traditionally, this was a cause for the high rate of mental illness in urban areas. (However, the recent housing catastrophe was a mostly suburban phenomenon; we'll see in about 10 years if that results in suburban MI levels exceeding urban ones) If you ban high-rises, real estate costs become extreme. Just look at what it costs to live in the Village if you don't believe me. Or look at San Francisco's problem. It's not nearly as dense as New York, but almost as expensive because of the NIMBY assholes. Bad bad bad fucking idea.

netcan 14y ago

This is how urban poverty looks. It looked similar in Europe too. They called them Tenements here and every self respecting character in Irish fiction grows up in one.

tuananh 14y ago

Same goes for Vietnam. There're houses like 1/1.5 meters width. No bed, furniture whatsoever.

jib 14y ago

I lived in a 9 m^2 apartment (with some extra storage) for 3 years (cheap rent in Paris was nice). It was mostly fine, except you end up hearing neighbors. If not for that, it was pretty good. It had tradeoffs tho, apartment was next to castle of Versailles so lots of nature near. If you are single and there are outside areas to escape to, small living was ok for me at least. Poverty vs choice of living small makes a lot of difference for how it is. Small isn't inherently bad, surroundings matter.

brador 14y ago
How much was that and how long ago?
- jib 14y ago
  400 euro/month around 5-10 years ago.
  - arrrg 14y ago
    That’s cheap? Wow. If it’s close to Versailles it’s well outside Paris. I’m now moving into a 17sqft mini apartment (just for four months), one metro station from the center of Hamburg (20 min to my very central workplace, including a ten minute bus ride to the next metro station plus walking and waiting times). I will pay 270 euro/month for it, including heat and electricity. You can get more spacious apartments in similar places in Hamburg for about 500 Euro/month. If you share an apartment with roommates you might even pay less than 400 Euro. Is Paris really so much more expensive, even well outside the city? I mean, Hamburg (and Munich and now also Berlin) are already making headlines for their crazy expensive rents.
    - Someone 14y ago
      Are you sure you have your units right? You can just put a bed on 17sqft, but you could not also have a door swinging inwards or even place to stand next to that bed (https://www.google.nl/search?q=17+sq+ft+in+sq+meters https://www.google.nl/search?q=17+sq+ft+in+sq+meters)

greggman 14y ago

Japan also has many fairly small apartments. Here's a few in the 5-6 sq meter range http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004728000466001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004728000466001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004509001707001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01004509001707001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01003440000826001/ http://www.chintai.net/detail/bk_C01003440000826001/ A bigger list shows a lot more in the 10-12 sq meter sizes http://www.chintai.net/tokyo/search/ensen/List.do?e=101001&cf=0&ct=0&k=1&m=0&sf=0&st=0&b=1&b=2&b=3&h=&j= http://www.chintai.net/tokyo/search/ensen/List.do?e=101001&#... 10-12 seems small in my experience but I have many friends in the 14-16 range

icebraining 14y ago

I find it odd that whoever build those houses decided to make tiny apartments instead of larger shared ones. For cooking, having a shared kitchen - even if used by many families - would probably help a lot, specially since it's cheaper and easier to make a big communal meal than having to cook for each family.

barry-cotter 14y ago
People value not sharing space a lot. In first world countries most of the worst things about being poor come from being surrounded by other poor people. Communal cooking is more efficient at basically every scale from 2 peson household up, where at its most egalitarian it's just taking turns to cook. But I am aware of no modern culture where most people eat communal meals; in fact the only exceptions I'm aware of are total institutions like prisons, monasteries or the military.
- acgourley 14y ago
  Nearly all dinners are communal in the many cohousing[1] communities in Denmark. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing
- VLM 14y ago
  "no modern culture where most people eat communal meals" The blue collar lunchroom. A direct descendant of the school lunchroom. As for anecdotes, the last time I ate in a communal lunchroom was the last manual labor job I had around 1994 while in school, since then its all been eating at the desk, runnin errands, going out. My employers have all had empty lunchrooms as an anachronism, more a place to keep the coffee makers and fridges and junk food machines. Once in awhile you'll see like 4 people in a 300 person company in the lunchroom eating together, or they have birthday parties/meetings in the "lunch"room.
  - RougeFemme 14y ago
    I'd add cororate cafeterias to that, especially those are subsidized. But this is for a larger company, at least 1,000 employees or so. And there's a mix of "blue-collar" and "white-collar" employees using it. And the utilization is a lot better - closer to 60%, plus whatever % of building tenant. And while many of the people do take the food and run back to their cubes, the cafeteria is also almost full of people taking communal meals.

SuperChihuahua 14y ago

Here in Sweden, we have students who have to live in old military-tents because of a crappy housing market. http://www.sydsvenskan.se/lund/husvilla-lth-studenter-tvingas-bo-i-militartalt/ http://www.sydsvenskan.se/lund/husvilla-lth-studenter-tvinga...

protomyth 14y ago
Western ND is pretty bad housing wise also. A lot of campers. You know its going to be bad when the oil companies buy hotels.

brudgers 14y ago

These are about the size of one of Florida's maximum security prison cells. "Cells within the Cell Housing Unit have one or two bunks and lockers for personal items. Generally, inmates who require a higher level of supervision are housed in this type of cell. Cells range in size from 7 feet wide to 10 feet 8 inches or 14 feet long. " In 2011, Florida had just over 100,000 people in prison (that does not include jails or Federal prisons). http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/vtour/securecell.include http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/vtour/securecell.include http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/faq.html http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/faq.html

blaze33 14y ago

Reminds me of the famous french Foundation Abbé Pierre poster campaign in winter 2008. The tagline was: "12m² for a poster, this is normal, but for a family?". * http://goo.gl/zhqd3 http://goo.gl/zhqd3 (translated blog post) or * http://www.bddpunlimited.com/node/2435 http://www.bddpunlimited.com/node/2435 (scroll to "toutes les créations" for a slideshow, js + flash needed)

ehmuidifici 14y ago

So you all must need to know whats going on with real state in Brazil. Appartments prices here are in a almost insane prices. Houses? In most big cities(Sao Paulo, Rio, Porto Alegre), you can't buy a middle-class house with no more less than 500k (yeah, US dollars).

michaelochurch 14y ago
Real estate is one of those issues that can quickly separate smart people from mouth-breathing idiots. Mouth-breathing idiots see expensive real estate and think it's a good thing. They clap their fat, ugly hands together. "People really want to live here!" Smart people realize that expensive real estate is a sign of something that's gone seriously wrong, since high prices have more to do with supply problems (inelasticity) than demand. Regulatory corruption, deficient transportation, and damaged environments are usually behind expensive real estate. It's not something to be celebrated. It's a disease.

mark_l_watson 14y ago

I owned two small cruising sailboats for 20+ years so I can relate a bit to very crowded living conditions. Those pictures showed people coping with small spaces, for example with the high shelves for food staples. Families can cope with a crowded environment, especially little kids who are probably happy being right next to their parents, but with teenagers at home I can't imagine how it would work.

jordanbaucke 14y ago

Just stayed in hong kong for a week earlier this month, and I can testify to the multigenerational apartments, and government subsidized ownership. I stayed in an apartment I rented from AirBnB which was awesome (for 2 people). I noticed other families in the same building where staying in the same sized places but had parents, adult children, and grandchildren living in bunk-beds. This was in "Central", which struck me as a poor place for a family (apartments of this size ~350sqft were being listed for close to $1 million usd ($7.5~$8 million HK) but than if you had some sort of government price control when the building was built than it made more sense.

eliben 14y ago

It's funny how every piece of news can be immediately retargeted as a diatribe against the ever-evil "rich bankers".

lilsunnybee 14y ago
Its because the standard of living of many bankers is disgustingly lavish compared to the people they exploit.

zubentok 14y ago

I thought communism was all about human equality. Guess it's true that you are communist until you get rich, feminist until you get married etc..

lilsunnybee 14y ago
Hong Kong is unique. Even if China was truly communist, HK has operated differently.
meepmorp 14y ago
It's worth noting that Hong Kong was under British control till 1997, and largely retains its independence from mainland China. It has its own constitution, and the existing capitalist system was left intact, as part of the transfer agreement between the UK and China. Not that China isn't chock full of disparities between better and worse off people despite the putative ideals of the communist state, but Hong Kong isn't a good example of such.