37 ms·

Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• michaelochurch 14y ago
  This made me sick. I don't know what's worst: the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone, or the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her. It stinks the whole way. Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work has unhealthy emotional side effects? Am I to be surprised by this?
  • jpxxx 14y ago
    Tone it down. This is a sober (heh) account of a young woman finding herself in a place she thought she'd never be, not a personal ad.
    • clicks 14y ago
      No, tone it up instead. From the comments on that article: My 3rd grade granddaughter has been put on adderall for ADD. This is really scary. It's because of people like her and her self-absorbed, nugatory account of her experiences being featured on a high-profile news journal that we drift into a world where mention of ADHD medicine usage gets you the eye-roll 'wow you druggie' judgement. She's doing a tremendous disservice to individuals actually diagnosed with ADHD.
      • jpxxx 14y ago
        As an individual who was actually diagnosed with ADHD, I have an axe to grind with a medical industry that sold me amphetamines at 15. The results were ~nugatory~ at best.
        • clicks 14y ago
          As an individual who was diagnosed with ADHD, but whose parents refused to acquire medicine based on superstitious 'but isn't adderall just basically cocaine?' grounds, I assure you I've got an axe about 3,000x bigger than yours to grind at individuals like those who wrote this NYTimes article. I'm sorry to hear that you were diagnosed by an incompetent psychiatric physician, but I would hope you don't use your misfortune as fuel for spreading superstitious, anti-science anti-ADHD-medicine hysteria, there's enough of that out there already.
          • adrianbye 14y ago
            your parents did you a favor. this is a diagnosis which is politically motivated. here's an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania
            • myko 14y ago
              What does this have to do with the OP and ADHD?
              • cwzwarich 14y ago
                Many critics of institutional psychiatry hold that the construct of mental illness is often used to medicalize nonpathological behavior that doesn't meet social norms, putting a scientific stamp of approval on judgements regarding human behavior, morals, and ethics. Given the uncertain pathophysiology of ADHD, the degree to which symptoms resemble moral judgements, the dramatic increase in diagnosis following advocacy in the psychiatric community, and questionable improvement of long-term outcomes for patients treated with medication, ADHD is seen by them as a good example of this point of view. I assume that's what he was alluding to.
                • adrianbye 14y ago
                  very well said
    • joe_the_user 14y ago
      Uh yeah, I am seriously surprised at HN seeing the comments here.
  • smoyer 14y ago
    "Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work" Perhaps the ABA (American Bar Association) needs to implement a ban on performance enhancing drugs similar to what MLB (Major League Baseball) mandates?
    • MartinCron 14y ago
      I drink coffee every day. Does that give me an advantage over those who don't drink coffee? If there is an advantage, is that advantage unfair?
      • smoyer 14y ago
        Good point ... I drink coffee every day too, but I'm no longer addicted (I mean that in the literal sense) like I was when I drank three to four pots.
        • Volpe 14y ago
          I think you mean your addiction is no longer outside the social norm. Caffeine is addictive, regardless what you rationalise or not. The only way to not be addicted is to severely limit supply...
          • smoyer 14y ago
            Actually, I mean that how my body functions is unaffected by my caffeine intake. If I don't have coffee on any given day, I continue to be functional ... in the "old days", I'd have had a killer headache within 30-45 minutes of waking up if I didn't down a large cup.
      • ruswick 14y ago
        I think the precedent is certainly different for use of prescription drugs that were acquired through dubious means.
      • nikatwork 14y ago
        Caffeine junkies like you disgust me. The use of an artificial stimulant to gain an unfair productivity gain is unethical, you CHEATER.
  • pchivers 14y ago
    I didn't like the article either. The whole thing struck me as melodramatic and narcissistic. Perhaps there are intelligent commentaries to be written about this culture's abuse of Adderall, but this is not one of them.
    • rayiner 14y ago
      > The whole thing struck me as melodramatic and narcissistic. She's a young aspiring writer living in New York City, as well as a UCLA grad... shouldn't be a surprise...
      • larrys 14y ago
        "She's a young aspiring writer living" Which makes you wonder what parts are true in the story and what parts are enhanced for dramatic effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Frey NYT also has a similar piece weekly called "Modern Love" typically by a writer with a screwed up love life that sometimes seems stranger than fiction.
      • runlevel1 14y ago
        That's a bit ad hominem, no? Before posting this I took a look at your comment history to make sure I wasn't feeding a troll. Instead, I found tons of quality contributions. You're better than this, my fellow HN'er.
  • Katelyn 14y ago
    Dude, have some compassion. It's upsetting that this is the top voted comment. Not everyone is as well-informed and knowledgeable about things like this as you are, and this first-hand account of her experience will likely help a lot of people experiencing similar issues. >>Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work has unhealthy emotional side effects? Am I to be suprised by this? Your claim that this stimulant gives its users/abusers/misusers an "unfair advantage" over those who don't use it (ie you) not only contradicts your following statement (that it causes emotional side effects) but also tells me that perhaps you're angered or upset by this perceived 'unfair advantage' you see this drug giving your peers. If you looked at the big picture, or her story, you'd see that the drug doesn't, in fact, give its abusers an unfair advantage. Whatever temporary 'gain' they are getting is unsustainable and clearly destructive both emotionally and physically.
    • ruswick 14y ago
      First of all, the two are not mutually exclusive. She explicitly states that she was better able to perform at work and experienced a better social life, but also faced emotional problems. To the second point, he probably is. This is to be expected. There is very little reason to by sympathetic to someone who abuses prescription drugs in order to achieve success in school or outlast their peers in the working world. The fact that she decried her plight makes it all the more irksome: before she was a "victim," she consciously chose to abuse these drugs, then lied to her physician and continued taking them for months...
  • nikatwork 14y ago
    > the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? > the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone She had a substance abuse problem. She's warning others that it's a slippery slope. Show some compassion.
    • AnIrishDuck 14y ago
      > You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? It probably becomes a vicious cycle / race to the bottom. You take more drugs to work longer hours and compete with your colleagues, who start taking more drugs so they can work more hours to have the edge over you...
      • nikatwork 14y ago
        The long working hours of many law firms existed before the widespread availability of adderall. Drugs have absolutely zero to do with it. They are merely a symptom of the underlying workaholic culture.
        • etrain 14y ago
          I had a friend whose grandfather was a hot shot lawyer at one of the largest international firms of his day in the 60s/70s/80s. She told me that he was a speed addict for close to 20 years. Long story short he got into a situation where he had to quit cold turkey and did, successfully. Substance abuse to get ahead is nothing new. Drugs are not as new as we pretend they are, and it's been common practice to abuse them for personal gain probably as long as they've been around.
          • deleted 14y ago
            [deleted]
          • intended 14y ago
            This is a scale error. The industrial revolution was a shift in the curve. You could successfully argue that automation to get ahead is nothing new, but it would miss the importance of the scale of the new changes. Adderal and its ilk are a similar shift in the curve. People with access used to be people rich enough to afford speed. Now almost all school kids are entering the work force and know someone or have themselves used performance enhancers.
  • doctorstupid 14y ago
    Agreed, she's totally self-absorbed. I found 97 uses of the perpendicular pronoun, not including all the uses of 'me', 'my' and so on.
  • lemmsjid 14y ago
    I didn't get any sense of victimization from the article. I got the sense of someone who was coming clean on a bad choice they'd made, and bearing witness to the consequences of said choice. In fact, she did so in a quite self deprecating fashion. From your comment I assume that you only respect people who have made correct and logical choices throughout their lives, and/or people who make bad choices, bear the consequences, and don't tell anyone about them (lest they appear to be self absorbed). You are certainly welcome to only respect said people, though I hope that if you ever make a bad choice that the people around you will be more compassionate.
  • darkarmani 14y ago
    > the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her. This is one of the things that bothers you? The paralegals felt the need to compete with her?
• systematical 14y ago
  There is a smart way to do this and not be a complete moron like the author. I take adderall a few times a year and have been doing so since my senior year (2003) in high school and have never come close to this trainwreck. It's a simple approach: know exactly what you have to do before taking it, eat a meal before (since you will have no appetite), take them in the early morning (so you can sleep by night), and finally...don't use them again for at least a few months. Also have water nearby the entire time since it dehydrates you.
  • tocomment 14y ago
    What kind of things do you on adderal?
    • systematical 14y ago
      Programming and if I get side tracked a little house cleaning. The trick is not to get side tracked and "crack" out on something that it isn't vital to the task at hand so I can maximize the "high".
  • awakeasleep 14y ago
    Good luck getting that published.
  • wahnfrieden 14y ago
    How much are you taking at once that you space it by several months?
    • systematical 14y ago
      1-2 pills at 10mg each. Try and just do one. Usually able to get a solid 8-12 hours of straight work out of them. It's hell on my back and I don't like the side-effects so thats why I limit it like that only taking them when I feel my workload necessitates it.
      • wahnfrieden 14y ago
• taylorlapeyre 14y ago
  As a college student that is constantly surrounded by Adderall and Vyvanse misuse, this hits close to home. I've had a prescription to similar drugs my entire life, and it was in 8th Grade that I realized that I didn't actually need them to function. The drugs made me unhealthily underweight, constantly antisocial, and easily aggravated. Nowadays when I look at my peers, I see the same things happening to them. Some people take two at one time the night before a big test and don't sleep for days. The worst part is, everybody sees it as normal. Popping an adderall before a test is as common, easy, and normal as opening a beer to relax on a weekend. People don't realize that the 60mg Vyvanse they are taking casually is an extremely hard drug to take for somebody not fully diagnosed with ADHD.
  • doktrin 14y ago
    > People don't realize that the 60mg Vyvanse they are taking casually is an extremely hard drug to take for somebody not fully diagnosed with ADHD. Are controlled stimulants less harmful to those diagnosed with AD(H)D? I'm sincerely curious. Anecdotal accounts abound on this particular subject, but I can't recall seeing any specific literature supporting the claim.
    • taylorlapeyre 14y ago
      This is a great question, and I'd love to know the answer as well.
    • throwaway54-762 14y ago
      The adverse side-effects do not magically go away; however, the benefits are (supposedly) much greater for a person diagnosed with AD(H)D than recreational users. Thus the net gain (benefits - costs) is positive for some people.
      • biotech_anon 14y ago
        This is how I'd put it. I've been diagnosed with adult ADHD and take a moderate to low dose of Adderall under the direction of my doctor. I can easily forgo taking it for weeks, and do so. These "vacations" without it were advised by my doctor to prevent tolerance buildup, and I suspect to diminish the potential for addiction. My dosage has remained constant and I don't feel a "need" for it, so I guess they work. For many of those with ADHD the drug makes a world of difference, and pushes focus and tendency to move around into the "normal" range. For certain activities the (benefits - costs) equation works out, while for others it does not (which is to say certain activities don't appreciably benefit from the quiet mind--the costs are long term and are more difficult to discern). It's about planning to take it for days where it does help, and being mindful of the health ramifications (staying hydrated, eating normal and healthy meals, monitoring cardiac health with support from a doctor, continuing to consult the doctor, etc.). My biggest fear beyond addiction is that it will be detrimental to my memory and learning in the long term. It's difficult to know if that is true. The author clearly abused it. Taking it "to socialize" seems weird to me. I suspect the author did not need it in the first place, and was already in the "normal" range. My mentally disorganized self is much more outgoing that the focused version of me. If it is impacting sleep, the dosage is probably too high or too extended (though many MDs prescribe the XR version since ostensibly it has less potential for abuse). Some of the alternative pharmaceuticals may work about as well, but Adderall has been around for so long that its risks are fairly well understood--though less so with long term use. Vyvanse is a means to extract more money from patients via patent protection. It's essentially dexedrine with a lysine attached (new side group=new patent). The lysine gets cleaved in vivo, and it becomes dextroamphetamine. Adderall is a mixture of dextro- and levo- handed salts, so it's a bit more nuanced. Taking it without doctor supervision is a major risk, and taking more than is prescribed or mixing it with other drugs as the author did compounds the risk. The potential for abuse is real.
• danso 14y ago
  How do people who've taken it for most of their adult life cope with adderall usage? I mean, how necessary of a drug does it seem to be -- or, to put it another way, how bad are the withdrawals, compared to antipsychotics, painkillers, etc? And if you've lived with adderall usage, do you chronically feel like you have a reduced appetite and all the other kinds of symptoms? I've heard that happens for people who take the drug on an occasional/recreational basis, but I wonder how the side-effects feel for people who are more "on" Adderall than off of it in their normal lives.
  • MartinCron 14y ago
    I took adderall (under the direction of my doctor, naturally) as an adult for around two years. Getting off it had zero side effects or withdrawal symptoms for me, other than the fact that extraordinary focus and concentration were suddenly difficult again.
    • darrenkopp 14y ago
      Same here. I've had ADHD for my entire life, but I seem to be able to just go on and off of it whenever I want and the only side effects is that I no longer have the benefits. In fact, I regularly do just stop taking it for time to time when I need to be more creative rather than more focused.
      • cube13 14y ago
        Myself as well. The only difference is that I have a greater appetite when I'm off it. Considering that I am overweight by just about any metric, that isn't a totally bad side effect, because I don't stop eating, I just don't eat as much when on it.
        • darrenkopp 14y ago
          Same here to a small extent. I find that I am not hungry for lunch when on it. My breakfast / dinner appetite remains the same.
  • 14y ago
• unimpressive 14y ago
  I remember when I was younger, I could stay up a full 30 hours consistently. Years later I wondered where that energy went. I thought for a moment that it was a result of aging or some such, until I remembered that at the time I was taking medication for ADD. It's really not healthy to sit and watch TV that long anyway.
• hxrts 14y ago
  It's unfortunate the author was not able to manage the drug properly. Adderall is a potent substance that, when used in the correct fashion, can be an effective aid for those who need it. It's also highly addictive so must be combined with a healthy lifestyle and coupled to good habits in order to be kept in check. I would highly recommend that anyone who feels themselves falling into a routine similar to that described seek a therapist as well as focus hard on improving their sleep, diet, and exercise routine.
  • bduerst 14y ago
    Exactly. The tone of the article made it seem like the Author was a victim here, when in reality I think this comment sums it up: >The writer tells us she was "23" when all this happened, as if to say, "Really, I was just a kid." But, really, she wasn't a kid. The brain is quite mature at age 23, but she didn't explore, evidently, the possibility that she was making a mistake.
    • dreamdu5t 14y ago
      Denial is a principal aspect of drug addiction. Even if she quits using, it will likely take a long-time for her to fully accept that it was all her fault. Drug addicts will blame every single person but themselves.
    • run4yourlives 14y ago
      Nobody older than thirty looks back and sees themselves as anything but a 'kid' at 23. Brain development or not. To be honest I think most people consider the change that happens in the latter 20's/early 30's to be 'reaching adulthood'
  • joe_the_user 14y ago
    It's unfortunate the author was not able to manage the drug properly. Adderall is a potent substance that, when used in the correct fashion, can be an effective aid for those who need it. Uh, I would claim that drug reactions vary considerably from person. To claim Adderall is always bad for someone seems to be untrue but to attack someone for not being able to control their reaction to it or any given drug seems really problematic. You can't tell what ability person X has to control their reaction to substance Y, I'm not arguing this just based on the tautology that you aren't them but on the fairly well demonstrated point that human psycho-physiological reactions have been shown to have considerable variation. It is a question of who or what is in-control and pretending there's a pat answer to this is evil.
• endtime 14y ago
  Someone close to me has severe ADD and stopped taking Adderall recently. This person is more productive and organized and even coherent on it. But this has turned out not to be worth A) the way if affects their mood/social interactions, and B) the inevitable Flowers For Algernon "mush-brain" feeling when it wears off in the evening.
  • MichaelGG 14y ago
    I'm surprised she didn't get Xanax or another benzo to help come off of the stimulants. Using alcohol for that effect seems like a strange choice.
  • whalesalad 14y ago
    I used to take lots of L-Tyrosine and Magnesium supplements to help restore the toll Adderall takes on your body. I was on 30 MG of XR daily and would indeed do the work of 2 or 3 of myself ... but you do pay for it at the end of the day. Ever wish you could clone yourself? You can. It's called Adderall. I miss it dearly. Moving to Sweden has meant that I can't get it any longer. Heading back to the US in a week to pick up a 5 month supply. I tried to quit, but to be honest the benefits are simply too great. I often wonder the number of successful people that are on Adderall or similar drugs ... because I genuinely think some of the amazing things people are doing these days are impossible as a "baseline human" ... or I am a severely broken one. This is a nice post that sums up my thoughts nicely: http://backreaction.blogspot.se/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetamines-check.html http://backreaction.blogspot.se/2012/08/erdos-and-amphetamin...
• ladzoppelin 14y ago
  Its a good article and I am glad she feels better however what do expect when you abuse a powerful medication and drink every night. "The mix of whiskey rocks and a pocket of pills was a potent one. I was now getting high seven nights a week, every night a delicate balancing act". Since she kicked the "pills" she now should kick the whiskey before that gets out of control. The title should probably read "Substance Addiction:The Last All-Nighter".
  • MikeKusold 14y ago
    I would bet that without all the energy that Adderall gave her, she no longer has the energy to go drinking with friends 7 nights a week.
• jjsz 14y ago
  I've never met someone who was diagnosed with ADHD since their early years. It's always people like the one in this article. I have a few questions to ask people who have used amphetamines while exercising (cross training, cardio), having sex, meditating, or anything that raises your heart rate. How does it feel? Does it feel like running on an empty stomach on a Monday morning after having slept only 3 hours?
  • adderall_9 14y ago
    Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and the amphetamines do wonders for physical work. You feel fantastic and capable. Amphetamines in particular provide a bit of a euphoric boost. In general, amphetamines are going to make you feel pretty damn good, although coming down might be unpleasant sometimes. I have to caution people to not do exert themselves, as they figure out that they can go workout at the gym like mad. I'm not sure it's healthy to work out while on stimulants.
    • biotech_anon 14y ago
      If there is a euphoric boost it sounds like the dose is much higher than would be indicated for ADHD. Slight modulation of mood maybe, but euphoria speaks of abuse.
    • jjsz 14y ago
      I've associated Ritalin with a negative connotation until a few weeks ago when I saw what it can do. I haven't tried adderral yet but I'm guessing it makes you feel synthetic. Like a robot who just learned how to use it's reserved cores. It's not natural but I feel like someone should measure their heart rate when doing the activities I said while high on amphetamines. How would one feel?
      • biotech_anon 14y ago
        I was told monitoring heart rate and blood pressure is standard for a patient newly prescribed it.
• b6 14y ago
  Adderall IR makes me feel very energetic and motivated, a feeling I like a lot. But I always seem to use it until it becomes so detrimental to my health that I feel I have to quit. Always, my dosage creeps up, my sleep schedule becomes chaotic, I become too thin and frail. I'm mentally quick, but also irritable. At first I take it to feel great, but at some point I'm taking it just not to feel as if I'm wearing a lead suit. I recently quit again after using for two months. If I get my weight and health back, I may try Adderall again, but only if I'm sure I can be extremely strict with myself. People say that taking weekends off can inhibit the dependence.
  • throwaway04583 14y ago
    I would suggest using the XR version if possible. You may need 20-30mg, but I have found it is much more stable and I don't feel the need to redose all day long. My friend has an IR script, and he ends up running out early, while I keep a stable sleep schedule and don't experience the mood swings.
• rakeshsharmak 14y ago
  Has anyone tried Yoga and/or meditation for ADD? I think it might be helpful...I am distracted easily and often. However, I find breathing exercises help me focus.
  • biotech_anon 14y ago
    Yeah, I do these things on my "vacation" days. It helps, but it's hard for me to do it for a long time. Usually I end up walking around after a few minutes.
  • xutopia 14y ago
    I never took any amphetamines but I find myself much more focused on weeks I spend at least 10m meditating.
  • mechnik 14y ago
    Yoga and meditation may benefit anyone. There is considerable interest in mindfulness techniques for ADD treatment. Search for 'mindfulness ADHD'.
• NateDad 14y ago
  I took adderall for almost a year (under the direction of my GP), for what I thought might be ADD. It actually did almost nothing for me... Except each time we upped the dose, I got really dizzy for a day. Other than that, I felt no better able to concentrate, no better memory. I finally just stopped taking it because it was a pain in the assignment to get it each month, and it wasn't doing anything. The only effects of going off it was that my wife said I was kind of a jerk for a few days.
• tarstarr 14y ago
  These kinds of articles are often used to delegitimize ADHD as a genuine condition: it actually can be. People can take Adderall for genuine conditions and see improvement. When it comes to the actual diagnosis of ADHD...that's where it gets interesting. Is everyone on an attention spectrum, and ADHD individuals are simply at one extreme? Or is there something completely different about these individuals that can be a single defining marker?
  • chrischen 14y ago
    The general understanding is that ADHD is characterized by a spectrum of attention deficit to an extreme. The process of diagnosis usually involves a self-questionnaire. In my case I somehow managed to fail the questionnaire and the psychologist performed an IQ test. The IQ test is analyzed to see if you have a processing speed subscore that is significantly lower than your other subscores (all subscores should be roughly equal).
• benhebert 14y ago
  The US refuses to admit that the real drug problem are prescriptions. The effects of prolonged adderall usage have not been studied and I can't imagine how it interacts with other medications. It's a schedule II narcotic with a high similar to cocaine. Keep your kids off of it.
  • throwaway04583 14y ago
    I realize you're probably trolling, but just in case.. The 'high' of adderall is not even remotely similar to cocaine.
    • throwitawayz 14y ago
      You haven't tried them both then. Adderall is just like cocaine, except longer lasting and smoother. I've tried both more than a few times.
    • danneu 14y ago
      Cocaine and amphetamine result in the same flood of the same neurotransmitters. Cocaine has no surprises for anyone that's ever been cracked out on instant release speed. Except maybe making them go "...is this it?" Lots of overlap between the two, especially when comparing pharmacophores. For instance, the peptide transcript called the "cocaine- and amphetamine-regulated transcript (CART)"[1] might be a good example. Not to say that you personally haven't had different experiences with the substances. There's just substantial chemical/physiological overlap between the substances while there's much less demographic/prescription/intended-effect overlap. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_and_amphetamine_regulated_transcript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_and_amphetamine_regulat...
      • throwaway04583 14y ago
        I have had substantial experience with both of them, and while the effect is similar, the feeling is not. In my experience, cocaine has a stronger euphoric component than d-amp. Adderall makes me logical and emotionally detached, while cocaine makes me feel like I'm on top of the world. I think the reason for using the substance could be coloring my opinion of the experience, since I use adderall to get work done, and when I use cocaine (not often, maybe once or twice a year. I did a decent amount of blow when I was doing opiates heavily), it's almost always in a social setting. I will grant that the pharmacological effects are very similar.
• brownbat 14y ago
  There are many reports here of people who've taken Adderal without significant issues, suggesting the key is "active medical supervision" (ie, much more than the passive doc just handing Kate Miller pills). In fact, once we have monitoring in place, you might even argue "intelligence doping" could provide such benefits to society that we should even encourage it (though only for those who face minimal side effects): http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2008/03/intelligence-doping--posner.html http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2008/03/intelligence-dopin...
• edw519 14y ago
  Hi Kate, If you're reading this (and I'd like to think so because Hacker News is no longer a stepchild), 2 things: 1. It sounds like you've turned the corner on this thing. If so, congratulations and best wishes. Oddly, I just posted my feelings regarding drugs and work earlier today. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5318320 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5318320 2. You write very well! I look forward to more. Let us know how to follow you. And keep 'em coming (naturally, of course).
• rayiner 14y ago
  "Romantically I became schizophrenic, smashing hearts on purpose or falling head over heels with a one-night stand, exhibiting neediness that disgusted me — yet I rationalized that becoming a self-loathing depressive could be filed neatly into my persona as a tortured New York artist, material for stories I would surely write someday. The problem was, it stopped being a persona, and became who I was as a person: uninspired, unproductive and miserable." This sounds like it could just as well be a symptom of New York rather than Adderall. Or being a lawyer in New York rather than Adderall.
• JohnBooty 14y ago
  The comments to this article mainly focus on the medical benefits and side effects of Adderall. I don't want a larger truth to get lost here... While I've been prescribed Adderall for part of my adult life, and feel Adderall has benefited me, I'd like to say that there's far more to successful ADHD treatment than medication: - Proper environment - Getting enough exercise - Getting enough sleep - Support and understanding from loved ones - Strategies/systems that allow frictionless organization While nobody here is explicitly characterizing it as such, please... nobody fall into the common trap of thinking that successful ADHD treatment is just a bunch of pill-popping. (Unfortunately, many psychiatrists do treat ADHD treatment as nothing but pill-popping. Mine does. There's a good chance yours will. If you're seeking ADHD treatment I'd urge you to do your own homework and read up on ADHD life strategies and consider seeing a therapist in addition to a psychiatrist. Whether or not you decide to go the medication route, those strategies will really benefit you. Good luck!)
  • espeed 14y ago
    You're absolutely right. John Ratey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ratey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ratey), the professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who wrote Driven to Distration, recently published a book called Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113506 http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B...). Spark details how high-intensity cardio (like sprints or interval training) put your brain chemicals in balance in part by generating BDNF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_factor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_fact...), which as Ratey describes, it's like "Miracle-gro" for the brain. Last year my stress levels were getting out of control from working too much. At the time I was running at least two miles every day so it's not like I wasn't exercising. But then one day I changed from running a couple miles to running 50-yard sprints, as fast and as hard as I could push myself. The first day I only ran four sprints, but I felt euphoric the rest of the day -- the best I had felt in years. So I tried it again a couple days later, and sure enough it worked again -- I felt amazing. So then I had to find out why this worked -- why a few sprints were so much more effective than running several miles. I started Googling and eventually found Ratey's book -- it explains the entire biochemical process of what's going on and why sprinting works. It's an eye-opening read. Each chapter covers how high-intensity cardio affects things like stress, anxiety, depression, ADHD. I have ADHD but haven't taken anything for it in years (since I was in college), and I can attest that sprints not only fixed by stress levels, but my ADHD symptoms were almost non existent. Here's a key point that Ratey makes throughout the book that completely changed my perspective on things -- he says that instead of thinking of exercise as something you should do to look good and build a healthy body, you should instead think of exercise as the key to building a healthy brain: "We all know that exercise makes us feel better, but most of us have no idea why. We assume it’s because we’re burning off stress or reducing muscle tension or boosting endorphins, and we leave it at that. But the real reason we feel so good when we get our blood pumping is that it makes the brain function at its best" (http://www.sparkinglife.org http://www.sparkinglife.org). In the book's introduction he goes on to say, "Building muscles and conditioning the heart and lungs are essentially side effects. I often tell my patients that the point of exercise is to build and condition the brain." In fact the brain exercise routine he recommends is similar to a weight workout routine, in that you have to push yourself hard one day, and then take a day off to let your brain recover, just like in weight training. Another key is when you sprint, always put everything you have into it. Run as fast and as hard as you can so you are constantly pushing your body and your brain past their limitations -- this is the key to growth.
• the_economist 14y ago
  You can boost productivity for a year or two with Adderall, but over a 10 year period most people will find that they perform better by staying off Adderall and other stimulants. And we are all in it for the long run, I think. After taking Adderall (or any stimulant) for long enough, you need the drug just to get to your baseline performance level. Add onto that the unproductive evenings, crashing on days off the pill, mood swings, likely health repercussions, and the general malaise caused by intentionally inducing your body into flight-or-fight mode.. It adds up to a not-so-pretty picture. If you want to feel like superman for a while, go for it. As for me, I'll trade short term productivity for low cortisol levels and inner peace.
  • overgryphon 14y ago
    Any data to back that 10 year claim? Equating any and all stimulant usage with unproductive evenings, crashing, mood swings, and malaise is pretty exaggerated.
    • the_economist 14y ago
      I don't have data, just personal experience and observations of people around me who have used stimulants for prolonged periods of time. Adderall starts off with 10mgs/day, 20, 30, then 40 to get the same productivity. I was mostly equating adderall use with that list of effects, not less stimulants.
• logn 14y ago
  I have the power to conjure energy, intense concentration, motivation, all-nighters, etc all on my own. I call it: stress+goals+pride+enjoyment+intelligence. Sometimes it's a great asset and sometimes it runs me into the ground. In my experience a lot of people are like this (programmers, parents, executives, creatives, lawyers, etc) and we all find our own ways to cope. For me it was a realization of my own body and mind (and that I'm normal) and not buying into someone's diagnosis or someone else's coping strategy. One of the most reassuring pieces of advice I had during sleepless nights in high school was from an adult who told me he can't sleep a lot and instead of tossing and turning he seizes the moment and works, since that's what he's thinking about anyway. I'm not saying this is healthy advice, I'm saying that he helped me feel normal by letting me in on his coping strategy. Others will tell you they drink tea, or workout, or avoid sugar or caffeine. They all work--for them--and we should take everyone's advice with a grain of salt because we all have very different minds/bodies/lives. I guess the author here found a coping strategy that happened not to work for her, so thank you for sharing. I'll share my strategy: I take trazodone occasionally as needed to sleep. I let myself get all worked up and be very productive for as long as I think it's healthy for me. Eventually I get on a weird cycle and this corrects it for me. There are all sorts of other things I do but there are so many variables in life, and this is the only one I view as relevant. And who knows, in a few years I might have to try a new strategy. Everyone's weird and bizarre and has problems. We should stop stigmatizing illness, eccentricities, addiction, medication and start realizing that we're all different and have the potential to be healthy if we find what works for us. Also don't always try to find the root cause and be pragmatic more often. Also, I should add that I share these details sort of like people do when they admit they're gay. It's not without risk, but I hope someone reading this is helped. And if you think I'm being overly dramatic, this does not apply to you then, because I'm being way underly dramatic.
• hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  The amount of comments here claiming being diagnosed with ADD and taking pills for it made my head explode. ADD can't be a real condition if suddenly everybody is diagnosed with it, can it? Because if it is, we have an epidemy going on.
  • JohnBooty 14y ago
    It might help to think of it like a spectrum. Naturally, everybody struggles with focus at times. Some more than others. One one end of the spectrum you have people who rarely struggle with focus, and on the other end you have people that struggle with it so much that it begins to cause them problems. So it's less an sudden epidemic than a growing recognition that this is an issue that many people struggle with, and that people struggling with it can really benefit from treatment. That treatment can include medication, though it doesn't have to. My personal experience is that proper sleep, diet, exercise, and environment are super-important as well. Yes, it's perhaps over-diagnosed/mis-diagnosed. Yes, some people probably use an ADHD diagnosis as a crutch or excuse. However, surely you can agree that focus is an issue that many people clearly struggle with, can't you?
  • georgemcbay 14y ago
    "ADD can't be a real condition if suddenly everybody is diagnosed with it, can it?" Sure it can be a real condition, one that is superficially easier to treat by giving everyone meds rather than admit that the modern "American" society we've created is full of all manner of unnatural stressors that we haven't evolved to deal with.
    • eitland 14y ago
      Bias. Many of those who discuss in this thread do because they actually know something. (Thid is still HN)
    • hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
      Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. The amount of people being prescribed meds made me scared. I'm from Brazil, and I almost never hear about ADD, let alone about Adderal.
• throwaway04583 14y ago
  Going cold turkey off 40 mg of adderall a day and calling it addiction is a slap in the face to people who have dealt with real addiction. As someone who has used Adderall at this level and stopped cold turkey and someone who has also been a heroin addict, stopping adderall cold turkey is a fucking joke compared to heroin addiction. Alcohol addiction also has the potential to be unbearably uncomfortable, not to mention deadly. The author is a poseur, and doesn't realize how lucky she is.
• mortdeus 14y ago
  Ive been taking adderall for a bit over 2 years now, and the important part about taking adderall is that you are supposed to do things like sleep every night, eat food during the day, and drink plenty of water, otherwise your tolerance takes over. This is true for people with adhd as well. The thing is, if you are taking adderall because it "super charges" you, you are taking it for the wrong reasons. People with adhd (like myself) have to take adderall so that we can compete on a level playing field. There is nothing we can really do to self motivate and study. Without my meds I can not retain the information that I read. Without my meds I cant motivate myself to sit down and program because I cant concentrate and conceptualize the model im trying to write in code. Adderall can be an invaluable tool for somebody who doesnt stand a chance without it, but it can take control of somebody who doesnt have a good enough reason to maintain self control and moderate their usage. The adhd mindset is a very awkward and uncomfortable feeling. Abusing our medication means we have to go back into that mindset and it sucks, therefore its easier to not let it become a craving addiction. Also the zombie feeling the kid was talking about, is due to the fact that he is taking too high of a dose. Either that or he would be better off on ritalin or strattera. Each specific case of adhd is somewhat different and the underlying cause may be served by a different treatment due to the difference reactions the drugs have in the brain. (Adderall increases dopamine and prevents it reuptake. Ritalin, just prevents the reuptake, etc).
• hakaaaaak 14y ago
  To others in similar situation, either considering it or on it, or just taking some other stimulant like caffeine, or are just tired all the time: * If you have ADD and it is working for you and you are happy, ignore this shit and do what you need to do. * If you have ADD and take it, but you don't like how you feel while you are on it, talk to your doc and have him/her help wean you off of it or find a different dose or med. * If you are fat or not but don't get enough exercise, please get exercise and stop eating fast food and drinking any kind of soda (diet is just as bad). I am overweight now and have been normal weight before when I've exercised regularly and it made a big difference both cognitively and with energy, etc. I need to do that again. I learned the hard way not to diet though. It worked but it is true what they say; you gain it back +10 lbs (or more). * Replace soda with coffee or tea, even if you hate them. I really hated them. I feel much better not drinking diet sodas constantly. Try to eliminate caffeine if you can. * Try eliminating/limiting aluminum (drinking from cans, using hair products with aluminum, etc.). (May be unnecessary, but lower your Alzheimer's risk.) * Try taking daily vitamins (Centrum, etc.), Fish/cod oil pills. Consider taking a baby aspirin each day if you are 40+. Don't overdose on daily recommended intake, even when sick! Some things can be really bad. Don't overdose on ginko, etc. either! * There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your best, but you'll be your best when you aren't cheating and hurting yourself, and that is as good as you need to be. Even if you think you will get shot or people will die if you don't take stimulants, you can stop and it will be better- for everyone. * Talk to an ENT about sleep apnea. Losing weight is key no matter what, maybe stop drinking water and eating before bedtime, and no blue light or monitors or T.V. for a few hours before your 8-9 hours sleep. But after you do all that, if you snore or don't dream regularly and feel like crap and hate your job, get help. If you are like me, you have done a lot of this because you think you deserve it. I feel on a regular basis like I don't deserve to have what I have and that I'm a failure. In many ways, I am a failure; but mostly because I'm doing it to myself. I eat too much. I don't exercise. I hate my job. I think I should die. I feel like I need the food so my brain won't get distracted by being hungry. I feel like I don't have time to exercise. I feel like it is my fault that I hate my job. But, all that is crap. I need to take care of myself, and so do you! Just go on a short walk tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. Eat 1/2 as much as normal if you eat too much. Drink less caffeine. Talk to your doc about changing your meds or anything at all that you're worried about. Get a hobby and get outside more. Make friends that do healthy things. Get a job where you can live healthier and work a normal workweek.
• amikahmad 14y ago
  Interesting article on the subject of abuse. It would be more interesting to find out who the doctor was and if this woman ever received a proper clinical evaluation or a genome sequence. It seems pretty clear that she was improperly prescribed Adderall. Though they are cracking down on it much harder these days due to misdiagnosis and parents who do go pay "expensive upper east side doctors" so their kids can ace their SAT exams. It really is sad. I've been taking the extended release version for over a year now and without it I would be an unproductive wreck. I went through a full clinical eval by a neuropsychologist, and had my genome sequenced to verify that I had the specific mutations that are thought to be responsible for ADHD. For me it has been life changing to say the least. I grew up in NYC and would take the uptown train when I was supposed to take the downtown train twice a week at minimum, I wouldn't realize this had happened until I would end up in the Bronx or somewhere the train exited the tunnel and allowed light to come through the windows and bring me back to reality. I would make these errors due to my brain being off thinking about computers, robots, books, particle physics, food, girls, music, manga, etc ... rapidly shifting from one idea to the next, never completely finishing a single thought. It was hard for me to read. To finish projects. And I never had a job and instead chose to start my own companies. I don't quite believe the exercise hype - I was a division I athlete during my undergrad years, and worked out harder and longer than 99% of the human population during that time - and I still had difficulty. I decided to get help after my first year of my master. I was getting frustrated, unable to complete projects to my liking/standard, and staying up far later and working far longer to complete anything than many of my peers - and having just finished designing digital products for one of the top design firms in the world (really my first true foray into corporate America), while having trouble sitting down during meetings, and only hearing every third word that came out of my colleagues mouths, was beginning to freak me out. so i went in. And worked through the process. I was diagnosed and confirmed and my life completely changed. Although I had a difficult time with my family (asian) who looked at me differently and refuse to this day, to talk about my condition. The pluses still out-weigh the minuses. Adderall doesn't excite me. It calms me down. I can even sleep better since my mind is not racing 10000 miles per hour. I'm doing the best work of my life these days and couldn't be happier as I finish up my master thesis. (something i cannot imagine being possible had I not talked to someone and gotten help). I have no side-effects, and just feel "normal" when I'm taking it. And I am closely monitored by my physicians, all of whom have my best interests in mind. Sadly, this sort of support and knowledgeable/honest care is not easy to find. I think stories like these are both helpful and harmful. Helpful at exposing the blatant misuse and misdiagnosis, and also harmful because it shows people that it's still possible to find doctor's who don't give a shit about you and will just prescribe whatever you ask for. I have people who ask me for the drug, of course, I don't hand it out for $5 or whatever because it actually helps me and doesn't turn me into some sort of incredible hulk super human like the author or other abusers. Patients and doctors should be more responsible b/c if you don't really had ADHD, then this stuff will mess you up ... and i have no idea how to end this brain dump because well, it 2am and i'm sleepy and i have ADHD, I won't take my prescribed dose until 9am, and i have to talk about the healthcare system during my preliminary thesis defense tomorrow ... so ya ... later
• thelogos 14y ago
  A large part of the blame lays on her. IMO adderall's mechanism is much more severe on neurons than methylphenidate. It's very well proven that amphetamine/methamphetamine increases the level of free dopamine in the cytosol which are prone to auto-oxidation to quinones. This wreaks all sort of havoc over the long-term. Methylphenidate(ritalin) and its stereoisomer stay cleanly outside the presynaptic neurons and only blocks NET and DAT from pumping NE and DA back inside the cell. Unlike amphetamine, it doesnt disrupt the pH gradient of the vesicle membrane and cause an abnormal amount of dopamine to leak and accumulate in the cytosol. Personally, I would never take adderall/vyvanse/dexedrine. As a counterexample, let me give you my experience. After being prescribed focalin, my gpa shot through the roof. This stuff actually improved my health. How? Instead of pulling all nighters and procrastinating like I used to, this stuff allows me to get work done weeks early and go to sleep on time. I learned calculus in 1 week, bought a piano and taught myself how to play moonlight sonata 1st mvt and kiss the rain in 3 weeks (working on bach air in d major at the moment). Oh yea, I also read the entire lehninger biochem book and bernard milller's advanced organic chemistry for fun in my own time. Then a whole world of research papers were discovered through the uni library subscription :> This stuff allows you to learn at an alarming rate if used properly. I don't drink alcohol on days of studying because it prevents LTM formation, you're basically wasting your time studying if you do this. Also I never waste my time with people while medicated. This stuff can make you socially awkward and kill your sense of humor. Take it only for the singular purpose of learning and getting work done. I took extra care with my health, ate blueberries, avocado, eggs, brocoli, meat, etc., lots of lycopene, astaxanthin, R-lipoic acid, melatonin and 8 hours of sleep. Tolerance will go up very slowly with frequent breaks and essentially goes back to zero with a month break. For adderall, this will take much longer, some people will even develop permanent tolerance that will never go away. On days when I dont take focalin, I sit around, sip on a beer and browse HN ;)
  • n3rdy 14y ago
    > A large part of the blame lays on her. I'd say all the blame lays on her. When you know your gaming a system by either buying a drug from a dealer, using a crooked doctor to write your prescriptions, taking more than your prescribed dosage, and not reading the warning label on the bottle every time you take a dose out of it, its hard to believe that you didn't understand the consequences of what you were doing. I'm prescribed adderall and your comment dissuades me from taking it 100x more than this article does, even more than the warning label does. Even if you were exaggerating anything, I found more keywords to research from just the first paragraph than I would get out of 10 of these types of NY Times articles.
• jetti 14y ago
  I have dealt Adderall addiction although in a way most likely different than most. In my college years I was on tons of medications ranging from mood stabilizers to anti-psychotics, all in all, I was on 8 different medications to treat psychological issues I was having. Now those 8 medicines combined to deliver a mighty powerful punch which made me sleepy all of the time and made it very hard for me to wake up. The psychiatrist's solution was Adderall. In the beginning, it was great. I would set my alarm for 4 hours before I had to wake up and take an Adderall that I had next to my bed and I'd be awake. It was amazing being able to get to my classes on time. At the same time, if I got 4 hours of sleep I felt refreshed as if I had 8 to 12 hours. Things started slipping once I was taken off my medications. All of a sudden I didn't need the Adderall but I was addicted to being able stay up late. I never used it recreationally or to be more productive, I was just hooked on not needing sleep and it was great. I took a few months of re-adjusting but I was finally able to get back to sleeping normally but it was still hard for awhile. Why sleep for 6 hours and be tired when I could sleep for 2 less and pop an Adderall and not be tired at all.
• logical42 14y ago
  This kinda reminds me of that movie, 'Limitless'.