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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041926992.html http://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041... When Solid Gold Bomb wi

by jerrya 14y ago

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041926992.html http://uk.news.yahoo.com/keep-calm-rape-t-shirts-mistake-041... When Solid Gold Bomb withdrew the 'rape' garment it also posted a statement on its website which said: "We have been informed of the fact that we were selling an offensive T-shirt primarily in the UK. "This has been immediately deleted as it was and had been automatically generated using a scripted computer process running against 100s of thousands of dictionary words." Not on sale: computer generated t shirt advocating rape. Still on sale: human authored book advocating throwing rocks at boys. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Stupid-Throw-Rocks-Them/dp/0761135936 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Stupid-Throw-Rocks-Them/dp/0761... human authored 2013 calendar, boys are stupid: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Are-Stupid-2013-Calendar/dp/1847573932/ref=pd_cp_b_0 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boys-Are-Stupid-2013-Calendar/dp/184... Also on sale: bunny suicides: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bunny-Suicides-Grid-Calendar-teNeues/dp/3832757368/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bunny-Suicides-Grid-Calendar-teNeues... And Nuns having fun: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nuns-Having-Calendar-2013-Wall/dp/0761167013/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_6 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nuns-Having-Calendar-2013-Wall/dp/07...

Claudus 14y ago
The irony here, is that the outrage over these generated t-shirts is increasing their visibility and promoting something that no one had ever heard of or cared about before. The sadness here is that disparaging boys is much more acceptable, and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women, completely overlooking the fact that men can be victims of rape as well.
- ceol 14y ago
  > and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women It seems the only people making that assumption are you and the grandparent.
  - Claudus 14y ago
    Anyone who is informed is making that assumption, hopefully that now includes you. http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ People worldwide are using hashtag #NotBuyingIt to call-out sexism in the media. Let the media know: sexism won’t sell. Use #NotBuyingIt on Twitter to challenge the misrepresentation of women and girls.
    - ceol 14y ago
      Did you read those recent tweets? None of them mention gender. You're looking for a bias that just isn't there. Our society most definitely has a problem with rape and sexual assault— specifically towards women— but I don't see any Twitter users making the assumption that "t-shirt advocating rape" == "t-shirt advocating rape against women" There are men who are victims of sexual assault and rape, and you do them a disservice by ignoring them to push your own agenda.
      - Claudus 14y ago
        Did you read my comment? Several of them include the #NotBuyingIt hashtag, a hashtag specifically related to sexism against women. I really hesitated to respond to you again, at this point it seems you are doing nothing more than post hoc rationalization of your original inaccurate assertion.
        ceol 14y ago
        You're right. Several of the tweets included that tag. However, it doesn't seem to me that those tweets were from people who were thinking these shirts are targeting women. If you take a look at the hashtag on Twitter[0], many of them have nothing to do with boycotting an item. Is it safe to assume a person would see that hashtag and use it thinking it isn't specific to sexism? I think so. I should also clarify that I am in no way arguing that rape is equally a male and female problem. Women deal with rape culture much more than men. My argument is that I don't believe these twitter users were upset because it was targeting women. I think they were upset because rape is a terrible thing to happen to anyone. [0]: https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23NotBuyingIt https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23NotBuyingIt
- Steuard 14y ago
  Nobody overlooks that men can be victims, and it's every bit as tragic when they are as when women are. But it would take willful blindness to suggest that rape is not overwhelmingly often a thing that men do to women. That reality shapes women's daily lives enormously more than the reality of male victims of rape shapes men's. (When was the last time you saw someone explicitly offering men advice on how to avoid getting raped?)
  - Semaphor 14y ago
    I'm not going to dive into the rape statistic minefield, but the last time I did, the assumptions where that a more on-male rape numbers were in the dark because of still prevalent gender stereotypes (as in: Men don't get raped and they should be able to defend themselves).
    - Steuard 14y ago
      Again, it's honestly not about the statistics. Perception is, in this case, the major issue. Women are constantly pushed to change their behavior because of the danger that they might be raped, and practically every time a woman's rape is reported people ask "What was she wearing? Why was she out alone? Had she been drinking? Did she smile at him first?" Men do not face that pressure. And yes, I'm sure that there's a corresponding judgmental tone in questions like "Weren't you man enough to fight him off?", but everyone understands that a man can be beaten in a fight. It's an entirely different atmosphere.
      - Semaphor 14y ago
        The problem is that questions like "Weren't you man enough to fight him off?" don't get asked, the threat of those questions prevent men from telling anyone. And of course it's bullshit (the rest as well, but that one is just especially idiotic) to ask "What was she wearing?" (in general). But that's something that people are actively trying to better. Not for men.
        Steuard 14y ago
- lucisferre 14y ago
  /r/mensrights can be found over on Reddit. This is still Hacker News as far as I remember.
Klinky 14y ago
Those items you highlighted could be taken as tongue-in-cheek humor. Shirts with slogans like "Keep Calm and Rape Her" or "Keep Calm and Hit Her" are vague, and this lack of content makes it harder to find deeper meaning other than the face value.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- revelation 14y ago
  Casual sexism is not a joke.
  - Dylan16807 14y ago
    Saying something dumb that defies social norms but 'some people actually think that way'... Sounds like a joke to me. In bad taste, sure, but that doesn't category-shift it. Or another way of saying it: unacceptable jokes are still in fact jokes
EliRivers 14y ago
What's the problem with the nuns having fun one?
- jerrya 14y ago
  I think you're asking the wrong question.
will_brown 14y ago
>Not on sale: computer generated t shirt advocating rape. Assuming this is a computer generated t-shirt as you and OP suggest, how can anyone be certain that the shirt refers to rape as in forced intercourse? More often than not when I hear someone use the word rape, they are not talking about forced intercourse. Rather they are using the word rape as a synonym for "debellatio", having nothing to do with a sex. Examples: 1. I just took my final exam and I raped it. 2. Did you see the superbowl? SF was getting raped until the second half, then they made it a good game. If the rape t-shirt was not made by a human, but an algorithm, can anyone say for certain that the algorithm intended to mean rape as in forced intercourse or rape as in debellatio or any other definition whether it comes from urbandictionary or Websters?
- beering 14y ago
  a) Does it matter what the "intent" was, if the result is very offensive and advocates rape? Edit: Intent matters, but knowing the computer meant something else doesn't change the meaning of this item for a lot of people. b) Your examples are offensive, and I don't appreciate people who carelessly use the word "rape" like that. You might think it's OK in some twisted way, but it's probably worse than calling random things "gay" even though they have nothing to do with homosexuality.
  - will_brown 14y ago
    >You might think it's OK in some twisted way, but it's probably worse than calling random things "gay" even though they have nothing to do with homosexuality. I never said it was OK - I simply asked how does anyone know which definition an algorithm selected and does it matter? I thought you gave an insightful answer noting intent matters, but in this case you feel it does not because either use is offensive. I did give the examples of how I have heard rape used in non-sexual contexts, and I am sorry if you were offended - but more importantly it is you who personally gets offensive by saying I am OK with that usage in some "twisted way". Did I ever say I was OK with it? No. In fact I go out of my way to explain that is how I have heard it used, but that is not enough you go on to say my being OK with using the word rape in a non-sexual context (which I don't) is worse than some form of homophobia where one calls things "gay". Please do not make up behvior I do NOT engage in and then compare it to other forms of behavior I do not engage in. Finally, you may have unknowingly brought up real insight to who you are, because even if I or others were to call something "gay" who is not to say it is being done using the traditional definition of gay meaning "happy or joyous"? Are you offended the same way when people use "gay" to describe something as "happy or joyous" having nothing to do with homosexuality, the same way you get offended when others use "rape" in a non-sexual context?
lucisferre 14y ago
You missed http://www.amazon.co.uk/Girls-Weirdos-They-Smell-Pretty/dp/0761148515/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2/277-7976402-3473716 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Girls-Weirdos-They-Smell-Pretty/dp/0...

by jerrya 14y ago

Claudus 14y ago

The irony here, is that the outrage over these generated t-shirts is increasing their visibility and promoting something that no one had ever heard of or cared about before. The sadness here is that disparaging boys is much more acceptable, and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women, completely overlooking the fact that men can be victims of rape as well.

ceol 14y ago
> and people immediately assume that these shirts are referring to raping women It seems the only people making that assumption are you and the grandparent.
- Claudus 14y ago
  Anyone who is informed is making that assumption, hopefully that now includes you. http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ http://www.missrepresentation.org/not-buying-it/ People worldwide are using hashtag #NotBuyingIt to call-out sexism in the media. Let the media know: sexism won’t sell. Use #NotBuyingIt on Twitter to challenge the misrepresentation of women and girls.
  - ceol 14y ago
    Did you read those recent tweets? None of them mention gender. You're looking for a bias that just isn't there. Our society most definitely has a problem with rape and sexual assault— specifically towards women— but I don't see any Twitter users making the assumption that "t-shirt advocating rape" == "t-shirt advocating rape against women" There are men who are victims of sexual assault and rape, and you do them a disservice by ignoring them to push your own agenda.
    - Claudus 14y ago
      Did you read my comment? Several of them include the #NotBuyingIt hashtag, a hashtag specifically related to sexism against women. I really hesitated to respond to you again, at this point it seems you are doing nothing more than post hoc rationalization of your original inaccurate assertion.
      - ceol 14y ago
        You're right. Several of the tweets included that tag. However, it doesn't seem to me that those tweets were from people who were thinking these shirts are targeting women. If you take a look at the hashtag on Twitter[0], many of them have nothing to do with boycotting an item. Is it safe to assume a person would see that hashtag and use it thinking it isn't specific to sexism? I think so. I should also clarify that I am in no way arguing that rape is equally a male and female problem. Women deal with rape culture much more than men. My argument is that I don't believe these twitter users were upset because it was targeting women. I think they were upset because rape is a terrible thing to happen to anyone. [0]: https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23NotBuyingIt https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23NotBuyingIt
Steuard 14y ago
Nobody overlooks that men can be victims, and it's every bit as tragic when they are as when women are. But it would take willful blindness to suggest that rape is not overwhelmingly often a thing that men do to women. That reality shapes women's daily lives enormously more than the reality of male victims of rape shapes men's. (When was the last time you saw someone explicitly offering men advice on how to avoid getting raped?)
- Semaphor 14y ago
  I'm not going to dive into the rape statistic minefield, but the last time I did, the assumptions where that a more on-male rape numbers were in the dark because of still prevalent gender stereotypes (as in: Men don't get raped and they should be able to defend themselves).
  - Steuard 14y ago
    Again, it's honestly not about the statistics. Perception is, in this case, the major issue. Women are constantly pushed to change their behavior because of the danger that they might be raped, and practically every time a woman's rape is reported people ask "What was she wearing? Why was she out alone? Had she been drinking? Did she smile at him first?" Men do not face that pressure. And yes, I'm sure that there's a corresponding judgmental tone in questions like "Weren't you man enough to fight him off?", but everyone understands that a man can be beaten in a fight. It's an entirely different atmosphere.
    - Semaphor 14y ago
      The problem is that questions like "Weren't you man enough to fight him off?" don't get asked, the threat of those questions prevent men from telling anyone. And of course it's bullshit (the rest as well, but that one is just especially idiotic) to ask "What was she wearing?" (in general). But that's something that people are actively trying to better. Not for men.
      - Steuard 14y ago
lucisferre 14y ago
/r/mensrights can be found over on Reddit. This is still Hacker News as far as I remember.

Klinky 14y ago

Those items you highlighted could be taken as tongue-in-cheek humor. Shirts with slogans like "Keep Calm and Rape Her" or "Keep Calm and Hit Her" are vague, and this lack of content makes it harder to find deeper meaning other than the face value.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
revelation 14y ago
Casual sexism is not a joke.
- Dylan16807 14y ago
  Saying something dumb that defies social norms but 'some people actually think that way'... Sounds like a joke to me. In bad taste, sure, but that doesn't category-shift it. Or another way of saying it: unacceptable jokes are still in fact jokes

EliRivers 14y ago

What's the problem with the nuns having fun one?

jerrya 14y ago
I think you're asking the wrong question.

will_brown 14y ago

>Not on sale: computer generated t shirt advocating rape. Assuming this is a computer generated t-shirt as you and OP suggest, how can anyone be certain that the shirt refers to rape as in forced intercourse? More often than not when I hear someone use the word rape, they are not talking about forced intercourse. Rather they are using the word rape as a synonym for "debellatio", having nothing to do with a sex. Examples: 1. I just took my final exam and I raped it. 2. Did you see the superbowl? SF was getting raped until the second half, then they made it a good game. If the rape t-shirt was not made by a human, but an algorithm, can anyone say for certain that the algorithm intended to mean rape as in forced intercourse or rape as in debellatio or any other definition whether it comes from urbandictionary or Websters?

beering 14y ago
a) Does it matter what the "intent" was, if the result is very offensive and advocates rape? Edit: Intent matters, but knowing the computer meant something else doesn't change the meaning of this item for a lot of people. b) Your examples are offensive, and I don't appreciate people who carelessly use the word "rape" like that. You might think it's OK in some twisted way, but it's probably worse than calling random things "gay" even though they have nothing to do with homosexuality.
- will_brown 14y ago
  >You might think it's OK in some twisted way, but it's probably worse than calling random things "gay" even though they have nothing to do with homosexuality. I never said it was OK - I simply asked how does anyone know which definition an algorithm selected and does it matter? I thought you gave an insightful answer noting intent matters, but in this case you feel it does not because either use is offensive. I did give the examples of how I have heard rape used in non-sexual contexts, and I am sorry if you were offended - but more importantly it is you who personally gets offensive by saying I am OK with that usage in some "twisted way". Did I ever say I was OK with it? No. In fact I go out of my way to explain that is how I have heard it used, but that is not enough you go on to say my being OK with using the word rape in a non-sexual context (which I don't) is worse than some form of homophobia where one calls things "gay". Please do not make up behvior I do NOT engage in and then compare it to other forms of behavior I do not engage in. Finally, you may have unknowingly brought up real insight to who you are, because even if I or others were to call something "gay" who is not to say it is being done using the traditional definition of gay meaning "happy or joyous"? Are you offended the same way when people use "gay" to describe something as "happy or joyous" having nothing to do with homosexuality, the same way you get offended when others use "rape" in a non-sexual context?

lucisferre 14y ago

You missed http://www.amazon.co.uk/Girls-Weirdos-They-Smell-Pretty/dp/0761148515/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2/277-7976402-3473716 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Girls-Weirdos-They-Smell-Pretty/dp/0...