7 ms·

Sorry to hear about the troubles :( If this wasn't the umpteenth time I've heard this story, I wouldn't say this so pesteringly: To everyone: Stop stop stop

by nlh 14y ago

Sorry to hear about the troubles :( If this wasn't the umpteenth time I've heard this story, I wouldn't say this so pesteringly: To everyone: Stop stop stop stop stop using PayPal. This happens over and over again. For once, thankfully, there are viable alternatives out there -- Stripe & WePay to name two (both of which I've had excellent experiences with). Not saying they're panaceas or that there won't be security/freezing issues from the new guys, but PayPal has a documented, extensive, and repeated history of freezing accounts with large amounts of money in them over short(ish) periods of time.

sisk 14y ago
This may be a non-starter for this gentleman. Both Stripe and WePay have SSN requirement of sorts: https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-for-my-social-security-number-ssn https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-...
- mamcx 14y ago
  I actually looking for a way to solve this future problem (located in Colombia). I wish I could use stripe or baintree. Opening a account in USA from my local bank requiere US 30.000 in the first deposit (!) and creating a US company (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581) I worry for the legal/financial repercussions of that. The local payment processors suck worse than paypal. I use fastspring, they support my country, but can't use it for mobile payments (my requeriments). How badly this sucks...
  - alpeb 14y ago
    As for opening an account, you could take a trip to Miami and open it by yourself. No need to be a resident. Then make withdrawals in Colombia from an ATM (up to 780k COP at once) at a not too bad exchange rate.
    - mamcx 14y ago
      Yes, but then I need a TIN. And a US address to activate the stripe account. Creating a US LLC corporation is a big problem because the legal/tax implications... but probably my only rute right now...
- yuhong 14y ago
  Yea, this kind of general advice do not always apply in specific cases like this.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
omfg 14y ago
I think the lesson learned in all of these cases is don't leave tons of money sitting in your PayPal account. Link it to a bank account, turn on auto-sweep, and don't amass a huge balance that ultimately seems rather suspicious (whether it is or not doesn't matter).
revelation 14y ago
If you have to use PayPal: regularly transfer any money to an actual bank with actual responsibilities, not some fake holding bank registered in Ireland or whatever PayPal is using today to evade tax and consumer laws. You are not getting interest by letting that money sit with PayPal.
- nonamegiven 14y ago
  You're also not getting principal by letting that money sit with PayPal.
  - Centigonal 14y ago
    I think you flipped principal and interest there.
    - dhimes 14y ago
      He may have flipped principal and principle...
    - anthonyb 14y ago
      Principal in this case is the money that you earn interest on. He doesn't have either.
    - chris_wot 14y ago
      No, he's also not getting any principal. It's frozen.
- preinheimer 14y ago
  PayPal allows itself to pull money out of a bank account associated with the account as required.
  - mylittlepony 14y ago
    I'm not sure I got you. Are you saying Paypal can withdraw money from your bank account?
ricardobeat 14y ago
As another foreign business owner taking payments from the US, I really wish I could. There is practically no alternative to it outside of US/Europe, and wire transfers are too much hassle, take too long and end up costing the same. I do take my money out of PayPal as fast as I can.
- heldrida 14y ago
  There's actually a good alternative in Europe and so on: https://www.paymill.com/ https://www.paymill.com/ it's basically like stripe.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
breck 14y ago
PayPal also has over 100,000,000 users. Even if PayPal worked 99.999% of the time, you're talking thousands of problem cases. Turn.js is awesome, I've been a fan of it for a while, and I hope and expect PayPal to resolve this. But generalizing advice off this one data point is wrong. For the vast majority of people, PayPal is hands down the best choice.
- cmccabe 14y ago
  Using a real bank is hands down the best choice.
InclinedPlane 14y ago
I don't think paypal is the problem here, this is a pretty clearcut case of not having ones ducks in a row before doing business. People shouldn't expect that you can run a business as though it were a lemonade stand and funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars through any processor, including paypal, without anyone taking notice. That's not the way banks work, it's not the way the law works. Get a business license, get your ducks in a row, make sure you read the terms of use, make sure you understand the legal implications of the business you are conducting, and then proceed accordingly. If you run into problems with a bank, a processor, or whomever then go consult someone who knows the law far better and can act on your behalf (e.g. a lawyer). This is the exact same advice whether you use stripe or paypal or authorize.net or what-have-you. If your business operations are indistinguishable from fraud or money laundering on the surface then you should not be surprised if your accounts get frozen and you should ask yourself how you need to go about making sure there is a perceivable difference. Perhaps one could argue that the law or banking regulations or the corporate policies of the most popular services were different, but that's the world we live in. And it's not because they are trying to be assholes, it's because fraud and money laundering are commonplace, and if these companies don't try to keep it in check then they will get shut down by the government or the fees you pay to use the service will be much higher.
- armored_mammal 14y ago
  Personally, I think the law is outdated and poor if pretty much anybody can run afoul of the laws while being completely clueless and befuddled by them essentially on accident.
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    That's true, but it's hardly restricted to finance. That is a deep well.
- downandout 14y ago
  > And it's not because they are trying to be assholes, it's because fraud and money laundering are commonplace Actually, in large part, they are just being greedy assholes that are doing this because they can get away with it, and because it is profitable. They largely invented the freezing game, and they know how profitable it is. Of course fraud and money laundering are issues, however that is far from the OP's use case. Before they freeze hundreds of thousands of dollars, you would think they would at least look at his site for a few minutes.

by nlh 14y ago

sisk 14y ago

This may be a non-starter for this gentleman. Both Stripe and WePay have SSN requirement of sorts: https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://stripe.com/us/help/faq#do-i-need-an-SSN https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-for-my-social-security-number-ssn https://support.wepay.com/entries/313535-why-are-you-asking-...

mamcx 14y ago
I actually looking for a way to solve this future problem (located in Colombia). I wish I could use stripe or baintree. Opening a account in USA from my local bank requiere US 30.000 in the first deposit (!) and creating a US company (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5148581) I worry for the legal/financial repercussions of that. The local payment processors suck worse than paypal. I use fastspring, they support my country, but can't use it for mobile payments (my requeriments). How badly this sucks...
- alpeb 14y ago
  As for opening an account, you could take a trip to Miami and open it by yourself. No need to be a resident. Then make withdrawals in Colombia from an ATM (up to 780k COP at once) at a not too bad exchange rate.
  - mamcx 14y ago
    Yes, but then I need a TIN. And a US address to activate the stripe account. Creating a US LLC corporation is a big problem because the legal/tax implications... but probably my only rute right now...
yuhong 14y ago
Yea, this kind of general advice do not always apply in specific cases like this.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

omfg 14y ago

I think the lesson learned in all of these cases is don't leave tons of money sitting in your PayPal account. Link it to a bank account, turn on auto-sweep, and don't amass a huge balance that ultimately seems rather suspicious (whether it is or not doesn't matter).

revelation 14y ago

If you have to use PayPal: regularly transfer any money to an actual bank with actual responsibilities, not some fake holding bank registered in Ireland or whatever PayPal is using today to evade tax and consumer laws. You are not getting interest by letting that money sit with PayPal.

nonamegiven 14y ago
You're also not getting principal by letting that money sit with PayPal.
- Centigonal 14y ago
  I think you flipped principal and interest there.
  - dhimes 14y ago
    He may have flipped principal and principle...
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    Principal in this case is the money that you earn interest on. He doesn't have either.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    No, he's also not getting any principal. It's frozen.
preinheimer 14y ago
PayPal allows itself to pull money out of a bank account associated with the account as required.
- mylittlepony 14y ago
  I'm not sure I got you. Are you saying Paypal can withdraw money from your bank account?

ricardobeat 14y ago

As another foreign business owner taking payments from the US, I really wish I could. There is practically no alternative to it outside of US/Europe, and wire transfers are too much hassle, take too long and end up costing the same. I do take my money out of PayPal as fast as I can.

heldrida 14y ago
There's actually a good alternative in Europe and so on: https://www.paymill.com/ https://www.paymill.com/ it's basically like stripe.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

breck 14y ago

PayPal also has over 100,000,000 users. Even if PayPal worked 99.999% of the time, you're talking thousands of problem cases. Turn.js is awesome, I've been a fan of it for a while, and I hope and expect PayPal to resolve this. But generalizing advice off this one data point is wrong. For the vast majority of people, PayPal is hands down the best choice.

cmccabe 14y ago
Using a real bank is hands down the best choice.

InclinedPlane 14y ago

I don't think paypal is the problem here, this is a pretty clearcut case of not having ones ducks in a row before doing business. People shouldn't expect that you can run a business as though it were a lemonade stand and funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars through any processor, including paypal, without anyone taking notice. That's not the way banks work, it's not the way the law works. Get a business license, get your ducks in a row, make sure you read the terms of use, make sure you understand the legal implications of the business you are conducting, and then proceed accordingly. If you run into problems with a bank, a processor, or whomever then go consult someone who knows the law far better and can act on your behalf (e.g. a lawyer). This is the exact same advice whether you use stripe or paypal or authorize.net or what-have-you. If your business operations are indistinguishable from fraud or money laundering on the surface then you should not be surprised if your accounts get frozen and you should ask yourself how you need to go about making sure there is a perceivable difference. Perhaps one could argue that the law or banking regulations or the corporate policies of the most popular services were different, but that's the world we live in. And it's not because they are trying to be assholes, it's because fraud and money laundering are commonplace, and if these companies don't try to keep it in check then they will get shut down by the government or the fees you pay to use the service will be much higher.

armored_mammal 14y ago
Personally, I think the law is outdated and poor if pretty much anybody can run afoul of the laws while being completely clueless and befuddled by them essentially on accident.
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  That's true, but it's hardly restricted to finance. That is a deep well.
downandout 14y ago
> And it's not because they are trying to be assholes, it's because fraud and money laundering are commonplace Actually, in large part, they are just being greedy assholes that are doing this because they can get away with it, and because it is profitable. They largely invented the freezing game, and they know how profitable it is. Of course fraud and money laundering are issues, however that is far from the OP's use case. Before they freeze hundreds of thousands of dollars, you would think they would at least look at his site for a few minutes.