7 ms·

Apple fires Chinese supplier for using underage workers

143 points by rkudeshi 14y ago

rauljara 14y ago
So apparently Apple is making good on its promise to look deeper down in the supply chain. While it sucks for the workers at the plant that they're probably going to lose their jobs (shitty work is [usually] better than no work), the jobs aren't actually going away. They're just being shifted to another factory that now has the knowledge that they too could be fired for what Westerners consider egregious working conditions. This is great, and the outcome of putting a lot of vocal and consistent pressure on Apple to behave in a less inhumane fashion. It's yet another example that well organized and vocal campaigns can result in meaningful change. They do take a while, though.
- bilbo0s 14y ago
  The unfortunate reality of global business is that those components will simply end up in other devices. The companies which sell the devices will just try harder to hide it from the consumer. The pressure needs to be put not so much on Apple, as on the industry... or the practices continue pretty much unabated. Unless Apple really does turn into a monopoly.
  - SoftwareMaven 14y ago
    Since consumers have no visibility into the problem nor ability to solve the problem, I disagree that it starts with them (but it needs to get to them eventually). Apple wields a very large, very concentrated number of dollars, which may be enough to get the ball rolling. Other higher-end electronics companies may decide that, for marketing reasons, they will only work with "Apple approved" vendors or may decide the positive press is worth approving their own. It will be some time before the fifty-cent, crap electronics are reached, but you have to start somewhere.
- VMG 14y ago
  > While it sucks for the workers at the plant [..] > This is great [..] Aren't these statements contradictory? Isn't the supposed goal to help underage workers?
  - e1ven 14y ago
    Presumably, not all the workers are the plant are underage. Having compassion for those who are losing their jobs is rather human.
  - SoftwareMaven 14y ago
    Getting vaccinated sucks because you have to get poked, but it's great when you don't get the flu. It's possible to suck today but lead to a better state of being.
  - awestroke 14y ago
    Short term vs long term
    - VMG 14y ago
      In the long term, underage workers still can't work there and have to work somewhere else, presumably somewhere where they wouldn't work if they had the choice.
      - ChuckMcM 14y ago
        Technically in the long term the workers will age and become age appropriate and enter the workforce legally with an advantage of prior experience. Although its a fair point that there are other places, undoubtedly with less oversight where these children might be shipped off too.
  - gtr32x 14y ago
    First I would like to say I am not in support of underage workers, I would never be. However, if we look at the realistic situations in certain parts of the globe, especially China, sometimes it is not always such a simple situation that we allow these underage workers to work. In some far far away frugal rural land, a family is struggling financially. Their 14 year old son was not able to go to school, neither was there enough food to be fed to him. The news hit that there's a plant that's openly hiring workers without age restriction. The seemingly insignificant pay in the western's eyes will be a huge help to the family's financial in the remote rural China. After all, it's much better to work at such places than some coal mine that severely underpays. Depending on where you are born from, some kids are meant to grow up faster than others. Some kids just cannot afford a normal education like everybody else should. It's not a fair world and it never will be. Is it fair for the kids? No it's not, but what's their best option? Of course, not all situations are like this, but for situations where underage workers are actually working, there is a strong trend that this may possibly be the case. After all, who in the right mind would send their child to work at such an early age is they don't have to? Who doesn't want to live a good life? Remember Li Ka-Ching? He started working at a young age of 15 at a watch shop. See where he is at today? Once again, I am not saying that education isn't important, I believe it is. However, under so many unique circumstances, it isn't always the most viable path one goes through. I don't support underage workers, this comment isn't meant to bring to justice to the underage worker hiring practices in China. But it just pains me to see people generalize that the goal is to 'help' underage workers. The situation isn't the same in the West, hence why we think like that. It's a well wish and a prospect to help the country though.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- sp332 14y ago
  Jobs will not move to other factories, because the underage workers are still underage.
- stevenbedrick 14y ago
  > While it sucks for the workers at the plant that they're probably going to lose their jobs... From TFA: When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I don't understand how Apple could do that if they completely fired the company. If they are still doing business with them then they could make such demands, but if they outright sacked the company why would that company continue to do what Apple tells them to? Is the local government providing enforcement?
    - rscale 14y ago
      A contract clause withholding outstanding payments until certain conditions are met would do the trick.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        I suppose such a contract would work provided the cost of fulfilling those obligations did not exceed the outstanding payment. Otherwise I would expect the company to just cut their loses.
        Someone 14y ago
        It may not be perfect (which country's is?), but China has a justice system. A court case with Apple's weight (and money) behind it probably would be reasonably succesful in China.
        jlgreco 14y ago
- Gorbzel 14y ago
  Wait...what? The outcome of vocal pressure on Apple to change? There were definitely people pushing for better visibility of the human costs of the electronics industry, but aren't we being a bit circle jerky here? Well-orgaznied and vocal campaigns? I don't know what you're talking about, but suffice it to say I'm not sure this can't be mostly attributed to Tim Cook's increased focus on supply chain and manufacturing and the human consequences thereof. Ultimately, there's clearly a net positive here: less violations of clear human rights concerns in Chinese factories. I think everyone can agree, that's a good thing. But I can't help but be worried about this notion that this is some massive "win" for a campaign pressuring Apple. This is a problem with the entire industry, and one that needs to be solved. Maybe it's a symptom of being the world's largest company, but too many hugely critical issues to geekdom (patent reform, the costs of cheap mfr labor, etc) get oversimplified in comments like the above into some postured for / against Apple and completely miss the point. It's intellectually cheap and really just getting old and preventing a lot of real good work from getting done...
  - Volpe 14y ago
    I don't think it's a win. These underage workers likely weren't doing it against their will. So really we just fired a bunch of poor people, because we think they are too young to work... Win! Do we really think these underage workers are going to go home and play Xbox, or go to school?
protomyth 14y ago
So, will any media outlet actually do the digging and find out which companies still do business with Guangdong Real Faith Pingzhou Electronics Co?
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  According to their website, the are TDK's largest subcontractor[1]. They are also big suppliers of LED lights (through a different subsidiary). 1. http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100990419 http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100...
- barredo 14y ago
  Seems to be a 'small' (<1000 employees) LED manufacturer. http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100990419 http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100... > Pingzhou electron becomes the largest global sub-contractor of TDK who is the world-famous electronic industry brand As much as I google I can't find any more names. I searched by the company and CEO name (Chunxiao Jin) but TDK's the only name mentioned... it must be and old document because when Asian suppliers work with Apple they tend to brag/tell everyone, If Apple allows them I think.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    So after 1 day of articles, barredo and SoftwareMaven did more investigative reporting than actual news outlets.
RexRollman 14y ago
What is interesting to me is that I don't seem to hear anything about this where other companies are concerned. Is it a case of me not noticing or is Apple being singled out?
- brandonsavage 14y ago
  Any time Apple does anything it pretty much gets reported. I imagine most other major companies don't care or their supply chains are ignored by the average person. For example, do you know where your television was made, by what suppliers, and how old they were? Me either.
  - atirip 14y ago
    Until Apple starts to make televisions. Then that factory where your telly was made turns into "Apples factory" and every minor problem there ends up in NY Times first page. Every time.
- reaganing 14y ago
  Apple gets more attention because of their size, but Samsung has recently caught some notice on these labor issues[1]. [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/14/3767272/samsung-htns-supplier-underage-workers http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/14/3767272/samsung-htns-supp...
andyakb 14y ago
"When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report." This is a tough problem to solve. Doesnt this provide HUGE incentive to underage workers to try to get a job and then get caught?
- shawndumas 14y ago
  the law of unintended consequences of the perverse incentive kind
- sarvinc 14y ago
  Yes, I would argue that the children already had an incentive to work. Now the supplier, assuming the supplier pays for all this, has a strong incentive not to let them work.
- micampe 14y ago
  isn't also a disincentive to employers to hire children?
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Definitely, but fake documents are easily acquired and employment agencies are very sketchy in the export zones. So fraud exists, and I'm sure apple doesn't make the distinction between intentional and accidental violations.
- benologist 14y ago
  It's a brilliant solution - it's a lottery ticket for everyone who slips through their suppliers' defenses. Either someone does or does not have official and legitimate paperwork saying they're an adult, and they're tall enough and developed enough that it's most likely true, or don't hire them. When the law catches up it will just be illegal and the consequences will be much harsher I'm sure.
sunwooz 14y ago
Now those kids will starve :(
- spatten 14y ago
  "When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment,"
  - speeder 14y ago
    I think this apply to those that remain selling to apple. The children on the component maker that were dumped, are screwed,
  - speeder 14y ago
    I think this apply to those that remain selling to apple. The children on the component maker that were dumped, are screwed,
  - sunwooz 14y ago
    Crap, didn't see that. Though, I also partially doubt they would actually enforce that rule.
- youngerdryas 14y ago
  No, they will just make crappy Android phones.
drcube 14y ago
So I'll be the guy to ask it: What's the problem with underage workers? As long as it's voluntary, the conditions are okay and the pay is fair, who does it hurt? Some societies don't have the luxury of an idle childhood. I don't feel right telling some family the choices they make in the face of extreme poverty or starvation might offend my first world sensibilities, so therefore they shouldn't get to make that choice. Should we work at fixing the root problems which drive children to work? Yes. Should we fire them and let them starve in the mean time? I don't think so. I'm happy about the education and guaranteed income that Apple is demanding, because it looks like they're trying to fix the actual problem, rather than just playing a PR game and kicking kids out on the streets.
- sdoowpilihp 14y ago
  I suspect the main issue is that the kind of people that forge documents to get children into a job may also be the kind of people that wouldn't worry about fair work conditions or fair pay.
  - JeremyKolb 14y ago
    Beyond that, slavery/human trafficking is likely a part of the problem. Sadly, Apple moving elsewhere will unlikely improve the lives of those left behind. The underage workers will just have to get a different job, which probably isn't as good.
    - gameshot911 14y ago
      From the article: "When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report."
      - bcoates 14y ago
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ChuckMcM 14y ago
I am glad that Apple is making progress here, and I find it sad that this is not being done by the Chinese government.
brudgers 14y ago
<Unbridled Cynicism> http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=apple+reduces+orders http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=apple+reduces+orders </Unbridled Cynicism>
richardlblair 14y ago
Let's not all sit here on our laptops, in our comfortable lives and try to understand the political complexities of societies where underage labour is common place. Let's not pretend to understand, and let's not pretend that we all have some high moral duty to "protect" these children. But, while you sip you tripple tall americano while reading forbes magazine pretending to be an expert on poverty and politics take a second to think a 12 year old boy who just lost his families only source of income, only source of food, and only source of life. These people live in a society where the cost of your fucking americano goes a long way. So stop pretending. Because you have no fucking idea.
- brockf 14y ago
  Along the way, your comment went from the collective "we"/"our" to "you". So I have to ask, do you have any idea?
  - richardlblair 14y ago
    No, and I don't pretend to. Unlike too many in this thread. No one here can have any idea what those poor people are going through.
- _pmf_ 14y ago
  Very sound reasoning. By the very same reasoning, the debate about whether to abolish slavery (in the US) should still be in full rage. After all, who could definitely predict whether those poor people would be able to survive without their masters providing them food and shelter and protecting them from the harsh reality (with hardly a benefit for themselves)? But I'm sure you will be able to demonstrate why this is not an appropriate analogy.
  - richardlblair 14y ago
    Enslaving people because of their race in a country that was otherwise prosperous, and hiring children in an economy and society where any thing else is nearly impossible are two entirely different things.
xenophanes 14y ago
Apple, which has the highest profit margins, is on a crusade to make labor less cheap, thus lowering profit margins for everybody, which will hurt their low margin competitors much more than themselves. I'm not saying that's their only reason but let's be careful applauding their altruism and ignoring the business merits of their policy. BTW, also, if some Apple competitors can only exist because of the temporary cheap labor pool (one day China, India, etc will modernize a lot more. maybe it will take 50 years but it is temporary), then maybe that says something interesting about their businesses.
- jimray 14y ago
  It takes a highly developed sense of cynicism to see a transparent effort to curb child labor as an attempt to hurt their competitors. Furthermore, Apple has publicly committed to bringing more manufacturing to the US, which isn't exactly pool of cheap labor. There are plenty of Apple's business practices worth criticizing. Making a forthright attempt to end child labor in the third world is not one of them.
pothibo 14y ago
That news should make $AAPL drop by 5%. </sarcasm> There's only positive things that can come out of this. A business leader taking it's leading position to put pressure on business that violates human rights.
matthiasb 14y ago
If you missed it, I recommend listening to the following American Life episodes in consideration on the light shed by this news: 454: Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/m... 460: Retraction http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/r...

143 points by rkudeshi 14y ago

So apparently Apple is making good on its promise to look deeper down in the supply chain. While it sucks for the workers at the plant that they're probably going to lose their jobs (shitty work is [usually] better than no work), the jobs aren't actually going away. They're just being shifted to another factory that now has the knowledge that they too could be fired for what Westerners consider egregious working conditions. This is great, and the outcome of putting a lot of vocal and consistent pressure on Apple to behave in a less inhumane fashion. It's yet another example that well organized and vocal campaigns can result in meaningful change. They do take a while, though.

bilbo0s 14y ago
The unfortunate reality of global business is that those components will simply end up in other devices. The companies which sell the devices will just try harder to hide it from the consumer. The pressure needs to be put not so much on Apple, as on the industry... or the practices continue pretty much unabated. Unless Apple really does turn into a monopoly.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  Since consumers have no visibility into the problem nor ability to solve the problem, I disagree that it starts with them (but it needs to get to them eventually). Apple wields a very large, very concentrated number of dollars, which may be enough to get the ball rolling. Other higher-end electronics companies may decide that, for marketing reasons, they will only work with "Apple approved" vendors or may decide the positive press is worth approving their own. It will be some time before the fifty-cent, crap electronics are reached, but you have to start somewhere.
VMG 14y ago
> While it sucks for the workers at the plant [..] > This is great [..] Aren't these statements contradictory? Isn't the supposed goal to help underage workers?
- e1ven 14y ago
  Presumably, not all the workers are the plant are underage. Having compassion for those who are losing their jobs is rather human.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  Getting vaccinated sucks because you have to get poked, but it's great when you don't get the flu. It's possible to suck today but lead to a better state of being.
- awestroke 14y ago
  Short term vs long term
  - VMG 14y ago
    In the long term, underage workers still can't work there and have to work somewhere else, presumably somewhere where they wouldn't work if they had the choice.
    - ChuckMcM 14y ago
      Technically in the long term the workers will age and become age appropriate and enter the workforce legally with an advantage of prior experience. Although its a fair point that there are other places, undoubtedly with less oversight where these children might be shipped off too.
- gtr32x 14y ago
  First I would like to say I am not in support of underage workers, I would never be. However, if we look at the realistic situations in certain parts of the globe, especially China, sometimes it is not always such a simple situation that we allow these underage workers to work. In some far far away frugal rural land, a family is struggling financially. Their 14 year old son was not able to go to school, neither was there enough food to be fed to him. The news hit that there's a plant that's openly hiring workers without age restriction. The seemingly insignificant pay in the western's eyes will be a huge help to the family's financial in the remote rural China. After all, it's much better to work at such places than some coal mine that severely underpays. Depending on where you are born from, some kids are meant to grow up faster than others. Some kids just cannot afford a normal education like everybody else should. It's not a fair world and it never will be. Is it fair for the kids? No it's not, but what's their best option? Of course, not all situations are like this, but for situations where underage workers are actually working, there is a strong trend that this may possibly be the case. After all, who in the right mind would send their child to work at such an early age is they don't have to? Who doesn't want to live a good life? Remember Li Ka-Ching? He started working at a young age of 15 at a watch shop. See where he is at today? Once again, I am not saying that education isn't important, I believe it is. However, under so many unique circumstances, it isn't always the most viable path one goes through. I don't support underage workers, this comment isn't meant to bring to justice to the underage worker hiring practices in China. But it just pains me to see people generalize that the goal is to 'help' underage workers. The situation isn't the same in the West, hence why we think like that. It's a well wish and a prospect to help the country though.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
sp332 14y ago
Jobs will not move to other factories, because the underage workers are still underage.
stevenbedrick 14y ago
> While it sucks for the workers at the plant that they're probably going to lose their jobs... From TFA: When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I don't understand how Apple could do that if they completely fired the company. If they are still doing business with them then they could make such demands, but if they outright sacked the company why would that company continue to do what Apple tells them to? Is the local government providing enforcement?
  - rscale 14y ago
    A contract clause withholding outstanding payments until certain conditions are met would do the trick.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I suppose such a contract would work provided the cost of fulfilling those obligations did not exceed the outstanding payment. Otherwise I would expect the company to just cut their loses.
      - Someone 14y ago
        It may not be perfect (which country's is?), but China has a justice system. A court case with Apple's weight (and money) behind it probably would be reasonably succesful in China.
        jlgreco 14y ago
Gorbzel 14y ago
Wait...what? The outcome of vocal pressure on Apple to change? There were definitely people pushing for better visibility of the human costs of the electronics industry, but aren't we being a bit circle jerky here? Well-orgaznied and vocal campaigns? I don't know what you're talking about, but suffice it to say I'm not sure this can't be mostly attributed to Tim Cook's increased focus on supply chain and manufacturing and the human consequences thereof. Ultimately, there's clearly a net positive here: less violations of clear human rights concerns in Chinese factories. I think everyone can agree, that's a good thing. But I can't help but be worried about this notion that this is some massive "win" for a campaign pressuring Apple. This is a problem with the entire industry, and one that needs to be solved. Maybe it's a symptom of being the world's largest company, but too many hugely critical issues to geekdom (patent reform, the costs of cheap mfr labor, etc) get oversimplified in comments like the above into some postured for / against Apple and completely miss the point. It's intellectually cheap and really just getting old and preventing a lot of real good work from getting done...
- Volpe 14y ago
  I don't think it's a win. These underage workers likely weren't doing it against their will. So really we just fired a bunch of poor people, because we think they are too young to work... Win! Do we really think these underage workers are going to go home and play Xbox, or go to school?

protomyth 14y ago

So, will any media outlet actually do the digging and find out which companies still do business with Guangdong Real Faith Pingzhou Electronics Co?

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
According to their website, the are TDK's largest subcontractor[1]. They are also big suppliers of LED lights (through a different subsidiary). 1. http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100990419 http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100...
barredo 14y ago
Seems to be a 'small' (<1000 employees) LED manufacturer. http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100990419 http://www.gd-realfaith.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=100... > Pingzhou electron becomes the largest global sub-contractor of TDK who is the world-famous electronic industry brand As much as I google I can't find any more names. I searched by the company and CEO name (Chunxiao Jin) but TDK's the only name mentioned... it must be and old document because when Asian suppliers work with Apple they tend to brag/tell everyone, If Apple allows them I think.
- protomyth 14y ago
  So after 1 day of articles, barredo and SoftwareMaven did more investigative reporting than actual news outlets.

RexRollman 14y ago

What is interesting to me is that I don't seem to hear anything about this where other companies are concerned. Is it a case of me not noticing or is Apple being singled out?

brandonsavage 14y ago
Any time Apple does anything it pretty much gets reported. I imagine most other major companies don't care or their supply chains are ignored by the average person. For example, do you know where your television was made, by what suppliers, and how old they were? Me either.
- atirip 14y ago
  Until Apple starts to make televisions. Then that factory where your telly was made turns into "Apples factory" and every minor problem there ends up in NY Times first page. Every time.
reaganing 14y ago
Apple gets more attention because of their size, but Samsung has recently caught some notice on these labor issues[1]. [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/14/3767272/samsung-htns-supplier-underage-workers http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/14/3767272/samsung-htns-supp...

andyakb 14y ago

"When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report." This is a tough problem to solve. Doesnt this provide HUGE incentive to underage workers to try to get a job and then get caught?

shawndumas 14y ago
the law of unintended consequences of the perverse incentive kind
sarvinc 14y ago
Yes, I would argue that the children already had an incentive to work. Now the supplier, assuming the supplier pays for all this, has a strong incentive not to let them work.
micampe 14y ago
isn't also a disincentive to employers to hire children?
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Definitely, but fake documents are easily acquired and employment agencies are very sketchy in the export zones. So fraud exists, and I'm sure apple doesn't make the distinction between intentional and accidental violations.
benologist 14y ago
It's a brilliant solution - it's a lottery ticket for everyone who slips through their suppliers' defenses. Either someone does or does not have official and legitimate paperwork saying they're an adult, and they're tall enough and developed enough that it's most likely true, or don't hire them. When the law catches up it will just be illegal and the consequences will be much harsher I'm sure.

sunwooz 14y ago

Now those kids will starve :(

spatten 14y ago
"When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment,"
- speeder 14y ago
  I think this apply to those that remain selling to apple. The children on the component maker that were dumped, are screwed,
- speeder 14y ago
  I think this apply to those that remain selling to apple. The children on the component maker that were dumped, are screwed,
- sunwooz 14y ago
  Crap, didn't see that. Though, I also partially doubt they would actually enforce that rule.
youngerdryas 14y ago
No, they will just make crappy Android phones.

drcube 14y ago

So I'll be the guy to ask it: What's the problem with underage workers? As long as it's voluntary, the conditions are okay and the pay is fair, who does it hurt? Some societies don't have the luxury of an idle childhood. I don't feel right telling some family the choices they make in the face of extreme poverty or starvation might offend my first world sensibilities, so therefore they shouldn't get to make that choice. Should we work at fixing the root problems which drive children to work? Yes. Should we fire them and let them starve in the mean time? I don't think so. I'm happy about the education and guaranteed income that Apple is demanding, because it looks like they're trying to fix the actual problem, rather than just playing a PR game and kicking kids out on the streets.

sdoowpilihp 14y ago
I suspect the main issue is that the kind of people that forge documents to get children into a job may also be the kind of people that wouldn't worry about fair work conditions or fair pay.
- JeremyKolb 14y ago
  Beyond that, slavery/human trafficking is likely a part of the problem. Sadly, Apple moving elsewhere will unlikely improve the lives of those left behind. The underage workers will just have to get a different job, which probably isn't as good.
  - gameshot911 14y ago
    From the article: "When new violations are found, Apple requires its suppliers to return the workers back to a school chosen by the family and finance their education. "In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment," wrote Apple in its latest report."
    - bcoates 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ChuckMcM 14y ago

I am glad that Apple is making progress here, and I find it sad that this is not being done by the Chinese government.

brudgers 14y ago

<Unbridled Cynicism> http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=apple+reduces+orders http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=apple+reduces+orders </Unbridled Cynicism>

richardlblair 14y ago

Let's not all sit here on our laptops, in our comfortable lives and try to understand the political complexities of societies where underage labour is common place. Let's not pretend to understand, and let's not pretend that we all have some high moral duty to "protect" these children. But, while you sip you tripple tall americano while reading forbes magazine pretending to be an expert on poverty and politics take a second to think a 12 year old boy who just lost his families only source of income, only source of food, and only source of life. These people live in a society where the cost of your fucking americano goes a long way. So stop pretending. Because you have no fucking idea.

brockf 14y ago
Along the way, your comment went from the collective "we"/"our" to "you". So I have to ask, do you have any idea?
- richardlblair 14y ago
  No, and I don't pretend to. Unlike too many in this thread. No one here can have any idea what those poor people are going through.
_pmf_ 14y ago
Very sound reasoning. By the very same reasoning, the debate about whether to abolish slavery (in the US) should still be in full rage. After all, who could definitely predict whether those poor people would be able to survive without their masters providing them food and shelter and protecting them from the harsh reality (with hardly a benefit for themselves)? But I'm sure you will be able to demonstrate why this is not an appropriate analogy.
- richardlblair 14y ago
  Enslaving people because of their race in a country that was otherwise prosperous, and hiring children in an economy and society where any thing else is nearly impossible are two entirely different things.

xenophanes 14y ago

Apple, which has the highest profit margins, is on a crusade to make labor less cheap, thus lowering profit margins for everybody, which will hurt their low margin competitors much more than themselves. I'm not saying that's their only reason but let's be careful applauding their altruism and ignoring the business merits of their policy. BTW, also, if some Apple competitors can only exist because of the temporary cheap labor pool (one day China, India, etc will modernize a lot more. maybe it will take 50 years but it is temporary), then maybe that says something interesting about their businesses.

jimray 14y ago
It takes a highly developed sense of cynicism to see a transparent effort to curb child labor as an attempt to hurt their competitors. Furthermore, Apple has publicly committed to bringing more manufacturing to the US, which isn't exactly pool of cheap labor. There are plenty of Apple's business practices worth criticizing. Making a forthright attempt to end child labor in the third world is not one of them.

pothibo 14y ago

That news should make $AAPL drop by 5%. </sarcasm> There's only positive things that can come out of this. A business leader taking it's leading position to put pressure on business that violates human rights.

matthiasb 14y ago

If you missed it, I recommend listening to the following American Life episodes in consideration on the light shed by this news: 454: Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/m... 460: Retraction http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/r...