11 ms·

Intel’s Profit Falls 27% as PC Sales Drop

50 points by clicks 14y ago

SparrowOS 14y ago
I don't like them. I'll watch them bleed. (Don't like AMD since they lied about not having a FPU.) God says... C:\Text\2CITIES.TXT intensely cold mist, it made its slow way through the air in ripples that visibly followed and overspread one another, as the waves of an unwholesome sea might do. It was dense enough to shut out everything from the light of the coach-lamps but these its own workings, and a few yards of road; and the reek of the labouring horses steamed into it, as if they had made it all. Two other passengers, besides the one, were plodding up the hill by the side of the mail. All three were wrapped to the che ---- God says... disliked concord Creator watch_it_buddy pared nay providedst reported capital butler applauses deceivableness availed virginity skin examine fittest not_in_kansas_anymore etext00 creature bitterly balancings Munday you_are_my_sunshine sakes immense secretly replied sank theres_no_place_like_home fraught searches catch bare total Macedonia burial folded confusions Where dryness Babylon two-edged shalt detriment endeavour repute Stage-plays Volunteers differ innocent hard_working only listen_buddy candle din patterns abnormal sovereignly intent serviceable besprinkling Ten fill would Intelligences acute reproach -the edit spurn upbraid is_it_just_me_or toiling bathe impatiently formedst face discommended Belarus suffice someone approve powerful teachers rescuing formed wisely conveyedst continually conform clothed excelling poets International singsong worm tore diversifiedst retain Alas sharers joy Bear tempered lest amazing conformed Our country-house impure GUTINDEX pattern infinitely grieving corners sometime
vezycash 14y ago
Profit or earnings?
- adamt 14y ago
  Profit === Earnings (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/earnings.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/earnings.asp) From the article: "reported net income of $2.5 billion, or 48 cents a share, down 27 percent from $3.4 billion, or 64 cents a share, a year earlier" Which is a 27% drop in total earnings or a 25% drop in EPS. The difference due to a share buy back improving the EPS by reducing the issued share capital.
  - vezycash 14y ago
    thanks
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  profit == earnings != sales == revenues
mtgx 14y ago
This is something I've argued before, too. Even if Intel gets every bit as good as the ARM competition in mobile devices, that may be pretty irrelevant to them, as they will have a very hard time competing as "just another mobile chip maker with tiny profits per chip". It will be hard for Intel to adapt to that as a company. And that's besides having to defeat established incumbents in the mobile chip market. The end of the "normal" PC market is not good at all for Intel. As the situation becomes worse for them, you'll see them adopt more desperate moves such as mandating every "ultrabook" (a trademark they own) manufacturers buys their McAffee antivirus, and other such moves, to try to increase their profits and revenues, but I don't think it will help them much in the end. The ultrabook market is a dead-end, anyway. So far their ultrabook sales have been several times lower than initially predicted, and most PC buyers want to buy "cheap" Windows machines, not $1000 Windows machines. The people who want that kind of PC, usually go for a Mac instead, and the latest sales data shows that. And Macs are still a niche market in the grand scheme of things. It's about the best Intel can hope for as far as "ultrabooks" go. And they better hope Apple is not moving to 64-bit ARM chips for Macs in 2014.
- Alterlife 14y ago
  Ultrabook prices are dropping every other month. I'm assuming that the expectation is that ultrabooks with higher processor speed, higher build quality, and possibly convertable to tablet factor will eventually be as cheap as or cheaper than netbooks are today.
  - wmf 14y ago
    Intel keeps increasing the specs on ultrabooks (like mandatory touch) to keep prices high and sales low.
    - Alterlife 14y ago
      I don't know that mandatory touch is going to be a limiting factor on price. Take a look at the Asus x202e. Reasonably slim, core i3 processor, touch screen, almost ultrabook/battery life and size (didn't quite make the spec)... 500$. If anything it tells me even more that Intel is looking to gradually morph the ultrabook brand to mean slim, powerful hybrid/convertible as the technology makes it possible. ie: they're trying to evolve the notebook computer in such a way that it encrouches on the 'tablet market', just as tablets have made their way into the pc market... More significantly: simply because the ultrabook exists, the other 'normal/cheap' laptops are getting slimmer, cheaper and all-round better. I think the mac/windows drama is still on on -- with the ipad and devices like it marketed to consumers an entertainment device, and Wintel keeping the productivity market.
ableal 14y ago
The interesting question is whether Intel is going to sell fab capacity to third parties. Given the umpteen billions they have invested in semiconductor fabrication plants, and the lack of sales of their own chips ...
- SkyMarshal 14y ago
  And their lead in process technology. I would think that alone would drive some demand from third parties wanting to one-up their competition in a way that can't (easily) be countered.
  - caw 14y ago
    They already started doing it: http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/11/intel-shifts-strategy-sells-22nm-fab-capacity/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/11/intel-shifts-strateg...
    - ableal 14y ago
      Good catch, I missed that. Probably still some way off from having PDKs (physical design kits) and a pricing sheet for Nvidia or other random fabless design shops to make their chips.
xradionut 14y ago
In the consumer world, "Wintel" should be wary of the future. Except for the one beefy laptop/workstation and my wifes gaming PC, (both which should be good for years), most of the devices we have bought or planning to buy don't require an expensive Intel CPU/chipset. And we don't need any new Windows software outside of the annual Quicken/TurboTax update. For portable use, there's smartphones and I'm thinking a good ARM based Linux laptop should be hitten the market soon enough.
- pekk 14y ago
  Why are we still saying "Wintel" when Macs have been using Intel processors for years, and now non-Intel platforms are a much more significant part of Microsoft's strategy than ever?
  - mitchty 14y ago
    I think the distinction is the windows/intel portion of the market. Of which macs aren't at all a member. Basically the 90's/2000's are over for the Windows/Intel "sure thing". Given Microsoft is now also looking at arm, Intel is going to have a harder go at the Windows side of things. And if the rumored Apple arm laptops pan out, they've lost a very high end vendor as well. But I'm deviating from my reply, enough squirrel banter.
blisterpeanuts 14y ago
PC sales dropping? Dell talking about going private? HP losing money? Tough. Let them try harder to win business. Here are a few suggestions. 1. Eliminate the Windows tax. From now on, vendors should offer bare systems that can run Windows and/or some flavor of Linux, Chrome OS and maybe even Android. Give me a radio button for each, so that I can watch the price change as I toggle. Enough with the "comes with Windows 8, but we won't tell you how much that costs." 2. Offer multiple years warranty. A car typically is 3 years or 36,000 miles. So why can't a PC be guaranteed for 3 years or 10,000 operational hours? I've seen so many components fail after 91 days, and then we're into a painful customer assistance process with some guy in Bangalore reading scripts in some dialect that sounds like English. 3. By the way, offer real customer service, not some guy in Bangalore reading scripts in some dialect that sounds like English. 4. Work harder to shield the user from malware: build more security into the hardware, e.g. trusted certificates and low level trusted, signed checking of application binaries. 5. Touch screens. 6. Get more creative with the form factor. Mac Mini is a good example of an elegant, efficient unit that doesn't look and sound like an air conditioner sitting under your desk, yet is packed with useful ports and computing power. 7. Tout your products as the mother ship for mobile devices. Provide tablet connectivity and drivers out of the box, and include bluetooth rather than making me order a $10 dongle online just to have this basic feature. Just some ideas; anyone got anything else?
- tgpc 14y ago
  re 1: free windows for personal use? the OS market is more competitive now, that should have an effect on price
- jonursenbach 14y ago
  I still don't really why nobody else has tried to compete with the Mac Mini. Dell had their Zino, but it looks like they've since discontinued it. I would love to have a Mac Mini sitting on my desk running Linux, but I can't justify spending $600+ for it. Some other PC manufacturer needs to finally step up to the damn plate.
  - caw 14y ago
DigitalSea 14y ago
I refuse to believe the PC is dying, evolving perhaps but not dying. People have been saying PC's are dying for the last 10 or so years and yet here we are, commenting on HN using our PC's and Mac's (which are PC's at the end of the day). Tablets in my mind will never work for programming or designing. I will always need a large screen and peripherals like a keyboard at the very least to do my job. Could anyone else here imagine developing on a tablet screen? I couldn't.
- jarcoal 14y ago
  It doesn't need to die for Intel to bleed. Power users (developers, designers, etc) are such a small fraction of overall users we might as well be 0%.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  The key distinction of "creation" vs "consumption" of computing and media. For creators, PCs are indispensable. Like you, I couldn't fathom using an iPad to write code or prose. However, consumers don't need the creative powers and capabilities of a PC. In this paradigm, phones and tablets are a simpler, more portable consumption terminal. Creators, both business and otherwise, will need machines that let them design, code, write, and analyze. Consumers never needed these capabilities, and now that there are compelling devices that offer an arguably superior media consumption experience, creation machines will be put on the margin. A significant minority of non-professional users of computing devices are consumers, rather than creators of content. But the defection of this significant minority is enough to impact the bottom line of companies like Intel.
- xoail 14y ago
  I agree with other commenters here. But regarding PC being required for creators to do their job will also go down as technology progresses. It wont be too long until developers and designers will hook up their tablets to external screens and keyboards and start creating. One great concept could be to AirPlay onto an external screen while your tablet's screen acts as a touchpad, plus a bluetooth keyboard. Tablets could very well become a terminal to consume as well as a platform to create.
redwood 14y ago
Anyone know what % of Intel chips go to the datacenter/server market? It must be higher and higher all the time. Perhaps it'll eventually be the majority!
ritonlajoie 14y ago
And AMD's stock price got it worse than Intel's. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=INTC&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=AMD%2C+&ql=1 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=INTC&l=on&z...
georgeott 14y ago
CPU's have reached the inevitable point where 90% of users simply do not need that kind of speed. You can build a car that goes 200mph, but there are not going to be many buyers.
jxdxbx 14y ago
I think most OEMS would rather do without the very real technical advantages that Intel brings, than be stuck with Intel. If they could switch to ARM for PCs easily they would, and there's no way they're going to sign up for Intel chips on mobile devices, at least not unless it starts making ARM itself. Say Intel is a process generation ahead of everyone and has fancy tri-gate transistors and what have you first. Is it really worth abandoning all that ARM gets you--the ability to design custom silicon, bid different foundries against each other, etc?

50 points by clicks 14y ago

I don't like them. I'll watch them bleed. (Don't like AMD since they lied about not having a FPU.) God says... C:\Text\2CITIES.TXT intensely cold mist, it made its slow way through the air in ripples that visibly followed and overspread one another, as the waves of an unwholesome sea might do. It was dense enough to shut out everything from the light of the coach-lamps but these its own workings, and a few yards of road; and the reek of the labouring horses steamed into it, as if they had made it all. Two other passengers, besides the one, were plodding up the hill by the side of the mail. All three were wrapped to the che ---- God says... disliked concord Creator watch_it_buddy pared nay providedst reported capital butler applauses deceivableness availed virginity skin examine fittest not_in_kansas_anymore etext00 creature bitterly balancings Munday you_are_my_sunshine sakes immense secretly replied sank theres_no_place_like_home fraught searches catch bare total Macedonia burial folded confusions Where dryness Babylon two-edged shalt detriment endeavour repute Stage-plays Volunteers differ innocent hard_working only listen_buddy candle din patterns abnormal sovereignly intent serviceable besprinkling Ten fill would Intelligences acute reproach -the edit spurn upbraid is_it_just_me_or toiling bathe impatiently formedst face discommended Belarus suffice someone approve powerful teachers rescuing formed wisely conveyedst continually conform clothed excelling poets International singsong worm tore diversifiedst retain Alas sharers joy Bear tempered lest amazing conformed Our country-house impure GUTINDEX pattern infinitely grieving corners sometime

vezycash 14y ago

Profit or earnings?

adamt 14y ago
Profit === Earnings (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/earnings.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/earnings.asp) From the article: "reported net income of $2.5 billion, or 48 cents a share, down 27 percent from $3.4 billion, or 64 cents a share, a year earlier" Which is a 27% drop in total earnings or a 25% drop in EPS. The difference due to a share buy back improving the EPS by reducing the issued share capital.
- vezycash 14y ago
  thanks
hkmurakami 14y ago
profit == earnings != sales == revenues

mtgx 14y ago

This is something I've argued before, too. Even if Intel gets every bit as good as the ARM competition in mobile devices, that may be pretty irrelevant to them, as they will have a very hard time competing as "just another mobile chip maker with tiny profits per chip". It will be hard for Intel to adapt to that as a company. And that's besides having to defeat established incumbents in the mobile chip market. The end of the "normal" PC market is not good at all for Intel. As the situation becomes worse for them, you'll see them adopt more desperate moves such as mandating every "ultrabook" (a trademark they own) manufacturers buys their McAffee antivirus, and other such moves, to try to increase their profits and revenues, but I don't think it will help them much in the end. The ultrabook market is a dead-end, anyway. So far their ultrabook sales have been several times lower than initially predicted, and most PC buyers want to buy "cheap" Windows machines, not $1000 Windows machines. The people who want that kind of PC, usually go for a Mac instead, and the latest sales data shows that. And Macs are still a niche market in the grand scheme of things. It's about the best Intel can hope for as far as "ultrabooks" go. And they better hope Apple is not moving to 64-bit ARM chips for Macs in 2014.

Alterlife 14y ago
Ultrabook prices are dropping every other month. I'm assuming that the expectation is that ultrabooks with higher processor speed, higher build quality, and possibly convertable to tablet factor will eventually be as cheap as or cheaper than netbooks are today.
- wmf 14y ago
  Intel keeps increasing the specs on ultrabooks (like mandatory touch) to keep prices high and sales low.
  - Alterlife 14y ago
    I don't know that mandatory touch is going to be a limiting factor on price. Take a look at the Asus x202e. Reasonably slim, core i3 processor, touch screen, almost ultrabook/battery life and size (didn't quite make the spec)... 500$. If anything it tells me even more that Intel is looking to gradually morph the ultrabook brand to mean slim, powerful hybrid/convertible as the technology makes it possible. ie: they're trying to evolve the notebook computer in such a way that it encrouches on the 'tablet market', just as tablets have made their way into the pc market... More significantly: simply because the ultrabook exists, the other 'normal/cheap' laptops are getting slimmer, cheaper and all-round better. I think the mac/windows drama is still on on -- with the ipad and devices like it marketed to consumers an entertainment device, and Wintel keeping the productivity market.

ableal 14y ago

The interesting question is whether Intel is going to sell fab capacity to third parties. Given the umpteen billions they have invested in semiconductor fabrication plants, and the lack of sales of their own chips ...

SkyMarshal 14y ago
And their lead in process technology. I would think that alone would drive some demand from third parties wanting to one-up their competition in a way that can't (easily) be countered.
- caw 14y ago
  They already started doing it: http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/11/intel-shifts-strategy-sells-22nm-fab-capacity/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/11/intel-shifts-strateg...
  - ableal 14y ago
    Good catch, I missed that. Probably still some way off from having PDKs (physical design kits) and a pricing sheet for Nvidia or other random fabless design shops to make their chips.

xradionut 14y ago

In the consumer world, "Wintel" should be wary of the future. Except for the one beefy laptop/workstation and my wifes gaming PC, (both which should be good for years), most of the devices we have bought or planning to buy don't require an expensive Intel CPU/chipset. And we don't need any new Windows software outside of the annual Quicken/TurboTax update. For portable use, there's smartphones and I'm thinking a good ARM based Linux laptop should be hitten the market soon enough.

pekk 14y ago
Why are we still saying "Wintel" when Macs have been using Intel processors for years, and now non-Intel platforms are a much more significant part of Microsoft's strategy than ever?
- mitchty 14y ago
  I think the distinction is the windows/intel portion of the market. Of which macs aren't at all a member. Basically the 90's/2000's are over for the Windows/Intel "sure thing". Given Microsoft is now also looking at arm, Intel is going to have a harder go at the Windows side of things. And if the rumored Apple arm laptops pan out, they've lost a very high end vendor as well. But I'm deviating from my reply, enough squirrel banter.

blisterpeanuts 14y ago

PC sales dropping? Dell talking about going private? HP losing money? Tough. Let them try harder to win business. Here are a few suggestions. 1. Eliminate the Windows tax. From now on, vendors should offer bare systems that can run Windows and/or some flavor of Linux, Chrome OS and maybe even Android. Give me a radio button for each, so that I can watch the price change as I toggle. Enough with the "comes with Windows 8, but we won't tell you how much that costs." 2. Offer multiple years warranty. A car typically is 3 years or 36,000 miles. So why can't a PC be guaranteed for 3 years or 10,000 operational hours? I've seen so many components fail after 91 days, and then we're into a painful customer assistance process with some guy in Bangalore reading scripts in some dialect that sounds like English. 3. By the way, offer real customer service, not some guy in Bangalore reading scripts in some dialect that sounds like English. 4. Work harder to shield the user from malware: build more security into the hardware, e.g. trusted certificates and low level trusted, signed checking of application binaries. 5. Touch screens. 6. Get more creative with the form factor. Mac Mini is a good example of an elegant, efficient unit that doesn't look and sound like an air conditioner sitting under your desk, yet is packed with useful ports and computing power. 7. Tout your products as the mother ship for mobile devices. Provide tablet connectivity and drivers out of the box, and include bluetooth rather than making me order a $10 dongle online just to have this basic feature. Just some ideas; anyone got anything else?

tgpc 14y ago
re 1: free windows for personal use? the OS market is more competitive now, that should have an effect on price
jonursenbach 14y ago
I still don't really why nobody else has tried to compete with the Mac Mini. Dell had their Zino, but it looks like they've since discontinued it. I would love to have a Mac Mini sitting on my desk running Linux, but I can't justify spending $600+ for it. Some other PC manufacturer needs to finally step up to the damn plate.
- caw 14y ago

DigitalSea 14y ago

I refuse to believe the PC is dying, evolving perhaps but not dying. People have been saying PC's are dying for the last 10 or so years and yet here we are, commenting on HN using our PC's and Mac's (which are PC's at the end of the day). Tablets in my mind will never work for programming or designing. I will always need a large screen and peripherals like a keyboard at the very least to do my job. Could anyone else here imagine developing on a tablet screen? I couldn't.

jarcoal 14y ago
It doesn't need to die for Intel to bleed. Power users (developers, designers, etc) are such a small fraction of overall users we might as well be 0%.
hkmurakami 14y ago
The key distinction of "creation" vs "consumption" of computing and media. For creators, PCs are indispensable. Like you, I couldn't fathom using an iPad to write code or prose. However, consumers don't need the creative powers and capabilities of a PC. In this paradigm, phones and tablets are a simpler, more portable consumption terminal. Creators, both business and otherwise, will need machines that let them design, code, write, and analyze. Consumers never needed these capabilities, and now that there are compelling devices that offer an arguably superior media consumption experience, creation machines will be put on the margin. A significant minority of non-professional users of computing devices are consumers, rather than creators of content. But the defection of this significant minority is enough to impact the bottom line of companies like Intel.
xoail 14y ago
I agree with other commenters here. But regarding PC being required for creators to do their job will also go down as technology progresses. It wont be too long until developers and designers will hook up their tablets to external screens and keyboards and start creating. One great concept could be to AirPlay onto an external screen while your tablet's screen acts as a touchpad, plus a bluetooth keyboard. Tablets could very well become a terminal to consume as well as a platform to create.

redwood 14y ago

Anyone know what % of Intel chips go to the datacenter/server market? It must be higher and higher all the time. Perhaps it'll eventually be the majority!

ritonlajoie 14y ago

And AMD's stock price got it worse than Intel's. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=INTC&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=AMD%2C+&ql=1 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=INTC&l=on&z...

georgeott 14y ago

CPU's have reached the inevitable point where 90% of users simply do not need that kind of speed. You can build a car that goes 200mph, but there are not going to be many buyers.

jxdxbx 14y ago

I think most OEMS would rather do without the very real technical advantages that Intel brings, than be stuck with Intel. If they could switch to ARM for PCs easily they would, and there's no way they're going to sign up for Intel chips on mobile devices, at least not unless it starts making ARM itself. Say Intel is a process generation ahead of everyone and has fancy tri-gate transistors and what have you first. Is it really worth abandoning all that ARM gets you--the ability to design custom silicon, bid different foundries against each other, etc?