6 ms·

How to screw up your life by getting promoted

sardonicbryan 14y ago
One policy I've implemented in my group at an SF startup is when I want to promote someone into a new role, I first put them in the role before giving them the title and raise. That gives them a chance to evaluate how much they actually like the role, while giving both sides outs if the role doesn't end up being a good fit. I've done this with two lead PMs and an engineering lead so far, and it's been met with a positive reception.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
cviedmai 14y ago
I actually once read something like financial companies prefer to promote people with family, house etc instead of single guys because that's the way you lock them down. If they cannot afford to quit the job you basically own them and you can exploit however you want. I think in a similar fashion to the writer but have a different approach. By learning to live with very little and be happy with the minimum, I'm not afraid of having to leave a place and give up a nice salary. Having the money is a nice plus and I can enjoy buying stuff and nice restaurants, but I don't make it part of who I am or the foundation of my happiness. Or at least I try ;)
- jrockway 14y ago
  I doubt this is true. In my experience, you get promoted when you get a counter-offer from another firm.
anovikov 14y ago
Same thing here. I can't start a lot of things i (now) have experience to do and which i am sure will still work, just because i can't imagine myself flying coach again - and that would be the way of life for the next coupe years if i do. Was my mistake.
- pinaceae 14y ago
  was flying longhaul business for years, doing consulting. then joined a startup which rocks its space - but has a strict internal frugality policy - coach at all times, no matter how long the flight (we have offices in US, EU, CN and JP). flying ZRH-SFO every couple of months in coach really, truly sucks once you know how it feels to fly the same route in business. being able to lie down and stretch your legs... still the best decision of my professional life :)
  - tome 14y ago
    Business class certainly costs a lot, but I imagine you can be work-productive much more quickly after stepping off the plane if you've flown comfortably. Have you ever considered a cost/benefit analysis of this decision? I'd be interested to know the results.
    - pinaceae 14y ago
      oh, i agree completely and basically know the results. business class allows you to work in the plane, as you have power outlets and more importantly, space. once the guy in front of you leans their seat back in coach, you can't work on that presentation any more. stepping off a 12h flight and working the next day is possible in coach though. your body doesn't like it, but it is manageable, however super inconvenient.
    - onetwothreefour 14y ago
      Even Google doesn't let execs (up to a certain level) fly C class (but you can, sometimes, if you're smart about bookings). Pretty sure they've done the analysis. :)
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    Yes, some companies have stupid decisions This policy is good most of the time, but really, flying coach on long flights is uncalled for. Sure, fly business on the cheapest carrier, still...
edandersen 14y ago
There is nothing wrong with being promoted. You just need the self discipline to realise that like everything in life, it is only temporary and you need to be ready for the job and salary to disappear at any time and for any reason. Greatly increasing your living expenses makes no sense when getting a sizable pay rise.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
DanBC 14y ago
There's a big difference between downsizing - leaving you with spare cash to do stuff with - and "Salaried jobs [...] stay the fuck away from them" which has seriously harmful potential.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
louischatriot 14y ago
That's especially true for high-paying jobs in finance, law or management consulting. Here your wage raises so fast that most people don't see how their tastes are evolving. For example, after 2-3 years most cannot go to a nightclub without buying a bottle of champagne. I quit Bain right before my first big pay raise and I feel that was a good decision. I eat pasta more than often but most of my friends who stayed have lost sight of their dreams. "I would like to quit but I can't" is something I hear SO often.
kephra 14y ago
"Building something interesting requires a surplus of time and money. Salaried jobs provide neither." The trap is not the salary job promotion, but the raise of middle class lifestyle. You wont leave middle class, as long as you raise your lifestyle with every income increase, and stay in dept. The solution is to keep a frugal lifestyle. e.g. my lifestyle is around Euro1000/month, even including my sailing boat. A typical good payed coders job leaves Euro2000 surplus every month. So working for salary for one year means, that I have two year runway to work for myself.
- meaty 14y ago
  This. I live like a student still. Class wars is a zero winners game. Expensive toys and things buy me nothing. My entire worth is about 600GBP. I shop at the cheapest places and grow some of my own food. I have no intention of using the extra time I'm gaining doing anything other than having fun. I can afford to take 7 years out now which is good for 10 years work. I too have a boat (a widebeam canal boat) which is being slowly refurbed in my spare time. When it's done, I'm living on it with my family.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Families are expensive. Tough to convince the wife that we should live like students.
    - meaty 14y ago
      Depends who your wife is. All we need is each other (I've been married for 12 years have 3 children and have lived like this since day one).
    - dwiel 14y ago
      If this lifestyle is important to you, it seems natural that you'd want to find a lifelong partner that has similar feelings. One of the most common reasons for divorce is disagreements about money. My expenses didn't go up when I began my relationship with my wife, and went up about 15% when my daughter was born. From $1400/mo to $1600/mo for the whole family.
peteretep 14y ago
I am reading a very interesting book at the moment with a similar sort of theme called "Your Money or Your Life": http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/1591797306 http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relations...
edandersen 14y ago
A botched "promotion" attempt can also backfire for employers. I had one joker boss/startup owner try to promote me (his words were "what job title do you want?") but had no intention of giving me a raise! Suffice to say the working relationship did not last, I went on to more than double my salary within a year of leaving.
hakaaak 14y ago
Another related problem is called "golden handcuffs". Many work in jobs that provide great salary and/or benefits and would like to leave, but they think that they will sacrifice their family's well-being by leaving. I was like that for years and recently switched to a new job that is a lot better for me. It is still far from perfect: I am more stressed-out, and I work more hours. But, the pay and benefits are better, and my skills and marketability are improving. I want a job that I love, and I'm still working on finding that, but if you have "golden handcuffs", don't fall into the trap that you can't do better. If you are aren't struggling and learning and you are unhappy and spreading unhappiness, you are a drag on yourself and everyone else. You can't always be unhappy, in fact you may continue to be unhappy (I am, or at least I tell myself that I am), but if you find yourself making others unhappy and feeling that they should realize that they are unhappy as you, that is not a good situation, and you need to change. There are plenty of other opportunities out there, but you won't find them unless you are looking for them. Just decide what you want, and do your best to make it happen. Don't buy into the self-help books either. They make promises they can't keep.
- kabdib 14y ago
  There's no point in being unhappy just for more money. I recently left a great job, and left a bunch of golden handcuff money on the table, for a position with far less stress and the ability to pretty much chart my own course. Bonus: I'm learning a bunch of new stuff (getting paid to go to school is a really good deal).
larsberg 14y ago
This advice is also similar to what I tell undergrads who are about to step out into the workforce for "just a couple of years before going back for grad school." A few people do it, but the vast majority will get used to the new salary, get married, and that pretty much ends it. I tell them that the experience, particularly at a google/MSFT/apple, is worth getting because you'll have a much more well-rounded perspective than those who come straight from undergrad. But no matter how frugally you lived while working, it's the strong spouse that is OK with a 10x pay cut (> $220k -> $22k, at least for me in the sciences).
nhangen 14y ago
I disagree with the premise. Sure, you can increase spending and get hooked to a salary, or you could just learn how to make more and have more.

One policy I've implemented in my group at an SF startup is when I want to promote someone into a new role, I first put them in the role before giving them the title and raise. That gives them a chance to evaluate how much they actually like the role, while giving both sides outs if the role doesn't end up being a good fit. I've done this with two lead PMs and an engineering lead so far, and it's been met with a positive reception.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

cviedmai 14y ago

I actually once read something like financial companies prefer to promote people with family, house etc instead of single guys because that's the way you lock them down. If they cannot afford to quit the job you basically own them and you can exploit however you want. I think in a similar fashion to the writer but have a different approach. By learning to live with very little and be happy with the minimum, I'm not afraid of having to leave a place and give up a nice salary. Having the money is a nice plus and I can enjoy buying stuff and nice restaurants, but I don't make it part of who I am or the foundation of my happiness. Or at least I try ;)

jrockway 14y ago
I doubt this is true. In my experience, you get promoted when you get a counter-offer from another firm.

anovikov 14y ago

Same thing here. I can't start a lot of things i (now) have experience to do and which i am sure will still work, just because i can't imagine myself flying coach again - and that would be the way of life for the next coupe years if i do. Was my mistake.

pinaceae 14y ago
was flying longhaul business for years, doing consulting. then joined a startup which rocks its space - but has a strict internal frugality policy - coach at all times, no matter how long the flight (we have offices in US, EU, CN and JP). flying ZRH-SFO every couple of months in coach really, truly sucks once you know how it feels to fly the same route in business. being able to lie down and stretch your legs... still the best decision of my professional life :)
- tome 14y ago
  Business class certainly costs a lot, but I imagine you can be work-productive much more quickly after stepping off the plane if you've flown comfortably. Have you ever considered a cost/benefit analysis of this decision? I'd be interested to know the results.
  - pinaceae 14y ago
    oh, i agree completely and basically know the results. business class allows you to work in the plane, as you have power outlets and more importantly, space. once the guy in front of you leans their seat back in coach, you can't work on that presentation any more. stepping off a 12h flight and working the next day is possible in coach though. your body doesn't like it, but it is manageable, however super inconvenient.
  - onetwothreefour 14y ago
    Even Google doesn't let execs (up to a certain level) fly C class (but you can, sometimes, if you're smart about bookings). Pretty sure they've done the analysis. :)
- raverbashing 14y ago
  Yes, some companies have stupid decisions This policy is good most of the time, but really, flying coach on long flights is uncalled for. Sure, fly business on the cheapest carrier, still...

edandersen 14y ago

There is nothing wrong with being promoted. You just need the self discipline to realise that like everything in life, it is only temporary and you need to be ready for the job and salary to disappear at any time and for any reason. Greatly increasing your living expenses makes no sense when getting a sizable pay rise.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

DanBC 14y ago

There's a big difference between downsizing - leaving you with spare cash to do stuff with - and "Salaried jobs [...] stay the fuck away from them" which has seriously harmful potential.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

louischatriot 14y ago

That's especially true for high-paying jobs in finance, law or management consulting. Here your wage raises so fast that most people don't see how their tastes are evolving. For example, after 2-3 years most cannot go to a nightclub without buying a bottle of champagne. I quit Bain right before my first big pay raise and I feel that was a good decision. I eat pasta more than often but most of my friends who stayed have lost sight of their dreams. "I would like to quit but I can't" is something I hear SO often.

kephra 14y ago

"Building something interesting requires a surplus of time and money. Salaried jobs provide neither." The trap is not the salary job promotion, but the raise of middle class lifestyle. You wont leave middle class, as long as you raise your lifestyle with every income increase, and stay in dept. The solution is to keep a frugal lifestyle. e.g. my lifestyle is around Euro1000/month, even including my sailing boat. A typical good payed coders job leaves Euro2000 surplus every month. So working for salary for one year means, that I have two year runway to work for myself.

meaty 14y ago
This. I live like a student still. Class wars is a zero winners game. Expensive toys and things buy me nothing. My entire worth is about 600GBP. I shop at the cheapest places and grow some of my own food. I have no intention of using the extra time I'm gaining doing anything other than having fun. I can afford to take 7 years out now which is good for 10 years work. I too have a boat (a widebeam canal boat) which is being slowly refurbed in my spare time. When it's done, I'm living on it with my family.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Families are expensive. Tough to convince the wife that we should live like students.
  - meaty 14y ago
    Depends who your wife is. All we need is each other (I've been married for 12 years have 3 children and have lived like this since day one).
  - dwiel 14y ago
    If this lifestyle is important to you, it seems natural that you'd want to find a lifelong partner that has similar feelings. One of the most common reasons for divorce is disagreements about money. My expenses didn't go up when I began my relationship with my wife, and went up about 15% when my daughter was born. From $1400/mo to $1600/mo for the whole family.

peteretep 14y ago

I am reading a very interesting book at the moment with a similar sort of theme called "Your Money or Your Life": http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/1591797306 http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relations...

edandersen 14y ago

A botched "promotion" attempt can also backfire for employers. I had one joker boss/startup owner try to promote me (his words were "what job title do you want?") but had no intention of giving me a raise! Suffice to say the working relationship did not last, I went on to more than double my salary within a year of leaving.

hakaaak 14y ago

Another related problem is called "golden handcuffs". Many work in jobs that provide great salary and/or benefits and would like to leave, but they think that they will sacrifice their family's well-being by leaving. I was like that for years and recently switched to a new job that is a lot better for me. It is still far from perfect: I am more stressed-out, and I work more hours. But, the pay and benefits are better, and my skills and marketability are improving. I want a job that I love, and I'm still working on finding that, but if you have "golden handcuffs", don't fall into the trap that you can't do better. If you are aren't struggling and learning and you are unhappy and spreading unhappiness, you are a drag on yourself and everyone else. You can't always be unhappy, in fact you may continue to be unhappy (I am, or at least I tell myself that I am), but if you find yourself making others unhappy and feeling that they should realize that they are unhappy as you, that is not a good situation, and you need to change. There are plenty of other opportunities out there, but you won't find them unless you are looking for them. Just decide what you want, and do your best to make it happen. Don't buy into the self-help books either. They make promises they can't keep.

kabdib 14y ago
There's no point in being unhappy just for more money. I recently left a great job, and left a bunch of golden handcuff money on the table, for a position with far less stress and the ability to pretty much chart my own course. Bonus: I'm learning a bunch of new stuff (getting paid to go to school is a really good deal).

larsberg 14y ago

This advice is also similar to what I tell undergrads who are about to step out into the workforce for "just a couple of years before going back for grad school." A few people do it, but the vast majority will get used to the new salary, get married, and that pretty much ends it. I tell them that the experience, particularly at a google/MSFT/apple, is worth getting because you'll have a much more well-rounded perspective than those who come straight from undergrad. But no matter how frugally you lived while working, it's the strong spouse that is OK with a 10x pay cut (> $220k -> $22k, at least for me in the sciences).

nhangen 14y ago

I disagree with the premise. Sure, you can increase spending and get hooked to a salary, or you could just learn how to make more and have more.