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Generally, I agree. Imagine: you start working at the company with a good will towards them. As you learn more and see more decisions, you slowly realize how b

Generally, I agree. Imagine: you start working at the company with a good will towards them. As you learn more and see more decisions, you slowly realize how bad it is. Now you've already contributed. Then you leave. It might be possible to build everything with this goodwill and that's how we'd still end up with a torment nexus even if you immediately drop it. What I'm saying is, at one point you have to break the company fully. I'm not sure what more we need to wait for, if the claim "10% it ends humanity" is not enough.

sandeepkd 14d ago
There is a lot more to it, an assumption is being made that somehow its easy to classify a company being god or bad and same for people. In reality, everyones life experiences shape them differently, the moral compass of right and wrong isn't same for everyone. Leaving that aside people are not just managing their feelings alone, more than often they are responsible for other people in the family as well and the impact of decision can have far reaching impact. Making a decision when you are single vs with kids and a mortgage are two different things. Good people can be in tough position where even when they do not agree they may not have much of an option but to keep going.
- ArcHound 14d ago
  I think we are in agreement. What I wanted to say is that usually people start with good intentions and only later they realize they are contributing to a torment nexus. What you are saying definitely plays a role and it makes doing moral choices difficult.
godwinson__4-8 14d ago
Compelling argument. All involved in this AI endeavor should be forced to answer: What other made up figure are you waiting for!?
seiferteric 14d ago
If it's "10% it ends humanity" and "20% it solves climate change and saves humanity" then is it still bad?
- ArcHound 14d ago
  Any indication how it could solve climate change? Because I'm seeing mainly hacker attacks, job insecurity, environmental impacts and vague threats with smiling faces.
- mofeien 14d ago
  Potentially. If we could put a precise probability on it, we could maybe make an informed decision on whether we want to play that Russian roulette as a species. But the reality is that experts' probabilities for human extinctions vary wildly, with the lab leaders at 20%-30% and these researchers at >10% (he didn't state how much higher...), LeCun at <0.01% and the other two godfathers of AI, Bengio and Hinton at >10%. And this decision to take our shot is not taken in a democratic way by humanity as a whole, but by a few companies racing as fast as possible. So as long as no one can put an upper bound on the extinction risk, development must be globally shut down.
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- spencerflem 14d ago
  AI is a massive contributor to climate change lol

sandeepkd 14d ago

There is a lot more to it, an assumption is being made that somehow its easy to classify a company being god or bad and same for people. In reality, everyones life experiences shape them differently, the moral compass of right and wrong isn't same for everyone. Leaving that aside people are not just managing their feelings alone, more than often they are responsible for other people in the family as well and the impact of decision can have far reaching impact. Making a decision when you are single vs with kids and a mortgage are two different things. Good people can be in tough position where even when they do not agree they may not have much of an option but to keep going.

ArcHound 14d ago
I think we are in agreement. What I wanted to say is that usually people start with good intentions and only later they realize they are contributing to a torment nexus. What you are saying definitely plays a role and it makes doing moral choices difficult.

godwinson__4-8 14d ago

Compelling argument. All involved in this AI endeavor should be forced to answer: What other made up figure are you waiting for!?

seiferteric 14d ago

If it's "10% it ends humanity" and "20% it solves climate change and saves humanity" then is it still bad?

ArcHound 14d ago
Any indication how it could solve climate change? Because I'm seeing mainly hacker attacks, job insecurity, environmental impacts and vague threats with smiling faces.
mofeien 14d ago
Potentially. If we could put a precise probability on it, we could maybe make an informed decision on whether we want to play that Russian roulette as a species. But the reality is that experts' probabilities for human extinctions vary wildly, with the lab leaders at 20%-30% and these researchers at >10% (he didn't state how much higher...), LeCun at <0.01% and the other two godfathers of AI, Bengio and Hinton at >10%. And this decision to take our shot is not taken in a democratic way by humanity as a whole, but by a few companies racing as fast as possible. So as long as no one can put an upper bound on the extinction risk, development must be globally shut down.
- deleted 14d ago
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spencerflem 14d ago
AI is a massive contributor to climate change lol