4 ms·

The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all) has no place in basic needs such as housing. Rent extraction is utterly counterproductive

The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all) has no place in basic needs such as housing. Rent extraction is utterly counterproductive for a society. Housing should not be a commodity.

WithinReason 13d ago
Who builds the houses then?
- mschuster91 13d ago
  Governments directly, cooperatives or non-profit organizations. The Churches used to be pretty active in that space as well to invest tithes, with rents paying for common-welfare projects.
  - IshKebab 13d ago
    Yeay communism! They built such lovely tower blocks.
    - vrganj 13d ago
      Yeah like that ugly drab city of ... Vienna?? https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-soc...
      - WithinReason 13d ago
        That's more like social housing: > an income maximum for applicants of €57,600 and can't be bought, only rented
        mschuster91 13d ago
        first of all, Europeans don't need American wages. 57k is comfortable middle class in Austria, especially if you have government subsidised housing. as for the "only rented" part, again, at this level of low rent it does not matter. you're better off renting. And Europeans have actual pension systems, we are nowhere near as reliant on real estate always appreciating in value.
- ImPleadThe5th 13d ago
  Who builds all those bridges, roads, power plants, and other public works projects? Maybe them? Also government formed co-ops. Find people who want a flat and agree on rent before you build it. As the loan is paid off rent becomes substantially cheaper. The second best time to plant a tree is today. It also doesn't need to be the entire housing stock, just enough to help keep rent low (see Vienna).
spankalee 13d ago
Housing should be a commodity. Commodities are fungible, plentiful, and easily tradable. Housing right now is the opposite of a commodity: it's a boutique investment for individuals whose price is propped up by regulations that artificially limit supply.
- 4gotunameagain 13d ago
  I do not think that housing should be broadly available for trade in global markets, in the typical definition of a commodity. That enables mass buyouts of housing from corporation which leads to rent extraction and a myriad of woes.
- repsilat 13d ago
  Yes, the grandparent scored an own goal with their aside >> The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all) The Berlin rental market suffers under strong government intervention, and would benefit from being much freer.
  - 4gotunameagain 13d ago
    This is not true. Two more strong government interventions that would benefit the housing market: - Tax empty flats to death - Disallow corporate ownership of residential property
tirant 13d ago
The only reason you enjoy cheap food is because of the free market. Housing in many countries is not part of a free market but part of a monopoly where the government decides how much, how many, the what and the when the houses can be built. If it was a real free market, the issue would have been long solved.
- 4gotunameagain 13d ago
  The only reason I enjoy cheap food is the industrialisation of agriculture and the subsequent increase in yields. P.s. the EU already decides how much, how many, what and when will be planted, through subsidising. And it's going quite well.
derektank 13d ago
Surely, if we are decommodifying basic needs, our first priority should be food, not housing, right? How has nationalization of agriculture worked in the past?

WithinReason 13d ago

Who builds the houses then?

mschuster91 13d ago
Governments directly, cooperatives or non-profit organizations. The Churches used to be pretty active in that space as well to invest tithes, with rents paying for common-welfare projects.
- IshKebab 13d ago
  Yeay communism! They built such lovely tower blocks.
  - vrganj 13d ago
    Yeah like that ugly drab city of ... Vienna?? https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-soc...
    - WithinReason 13d ago
      That's more like social housing: > an income maximum for applicants of €57,600 and can't be bought, only rented
      - mschuster91 13d ago
        first of all, Europeans don't need American wages. 57k is comfortable middle class in Austria, especially if you have government subsidised housing. as for the "only rented" part, again, at this level of low rent it does not matter. you're better off renting. And Europeans have actual pension systems, we are nowhere near as reliant on real estate always appreciating in value.
ImPleadThe5th 13d ago
Who builds all those bridges, roads, power plants, and other public works projects? Maybe them? Also government formed co-ops. Find people who want a flat and agree on rent before you build it. As the loan is paid off rent becomes substantially cheaper. The second best time to plant a tree is today. It also doesn't need to be the entire housing stock, just enough to help keep rent low (see Vienna).

spankalee 13d ago

Housing should be a commodity. Commodities are fungible, plentiful, and easily tradable. Housing right now is the opposite of a commodity: it's a boutique investment for individuals whose price is propped up by regulations that artificially limit supply.

4gotunameagain 13d ago
I do not think that housing should be broadly available for trade in global markets, in the typical definition of a commodity. That enables mass buyouts of housing from corporation which leads to rent extraction and a myriad of woes.
repsilat 13d ago
Yes, the grandparent scored an own goal with their aside >> The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all) The Berlin rental market suffers under strong government intervention, and would benefit from being much freer.
- 4gotunameagain 13d ago
  This is not true. Two more strong government interventions that would benefit the housing market: - Tax empty flats to death - Disallow corporate ownership of residential property

tirant 13d ago

The only reason you enjoy cheap food is because of the free market. Housing in many countries is not part of a free market but part of a monopoly where the government decides how much, how many, the what and the when the houses can be built. If it was a real free market, the issue would have been long solved.

4gotunameagain 13d ago
The only reason I enjoy cheap food is the industrialisation of agriculture and the subsequent increase in yields. P.s. the EU already decides how much, how many, what and when will be planted, through subsidising. And it's going quite well.

derektank 13d ago

Surely, if we are decommodifying basic needs, our first priority should be food, not housing, right? How has nationalization of agriculture worked in the past?