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I turned Jev into a (lousy) chatbot
- ericpruitt 7d agoIt's the digital equivalent of Morty speaking with the death crystal: https://youtu.be/YjepJlvkdKs?t=51 https://youtu.be/YjepJlvkdKs?t=51. The crystal shows him how he will die, so he iteratively determines his speech based on whether he sees himself dying with the life he wants.
- written-beyond 7d agoSometimes I think I'm Morty speaking with the death crystal but I don't even have a death crystal and all I fear is life itself.
- doginasuit 6d agoWe all have a death crystal, it's just wrong sometimes. It may confuse a certain possibility with death, when in reality it is a temporary discomfort or setback. If you ignore it and you survive, it eventually recalculates and you stop seeing that future.
- lwansbrough 7d agoTry returning a short list of word options by lookup based on the current word completion. Would save some turns.
- OtherShrezzing 7d ago>> write me a short story > a story I think this is the first time I’ve knowingly laughed at a model’s joke.
- phoghed 7d agoIn the olden days when the text-davinci models would just wholesale make shit up they did some pretty funny completions. An early ChatGPT model made me a pretty funny track list for my imaginary Indian cover band The Needful Dead. It's no longer in my chat history though so clearly Sam retconned anything his models did that could be considered racist.
- zamadatix 7d agoReminds me of the very early LlMs. I also sometimes miss the sheer demented horror of early image models told to generate images of biology.
- solarkraft 6d agoGood times. My best remembered examples are the bottomless pit supervisor (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bottomless-pit-supervisor https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bottomless-pit-supervisor) and the model being told to generate a screaming hot soup.
- ralusek 7d agoCodex and I were trying to infer why Jev gave a certain parameter a given score. So I asked codex to produce a list of like 30 plausible reasons Jev might've selected that and then presented Jev with the initial prompt, followed by "You scored this with XYZ. What was your reasoning for doing this?" And then allowed it to do a noul value for each of the reasons codex generated. Felt like those people that give their dogs the buttons to push.
- petesergeant 7d agoJev has taught me the same lesson three times over now. When it first came out, I thought "this weekend, I'll do a little open-source Jev based on single-token prediction and the token logit output", but of course when it came to it, there were at least 5 that had already been done between me thinking that and getting around to it. So I wrote up[0] what other people had done, but wasn't happy with how weak the benchmarks were, but in the time between writing the first word and the last few, two excellent sets of benchmarks had been written, so I was able to incorporate those. I published the article, and one of the authors of one of the implementations commented that I'd beaten him to doing the write-up he'd wanted to. This morning I thought "huh, you could have some fun giving Jev a single letter or token at a time, turning it into a chatbot", but as the time of looking two people had already done this (and taken the gag further than I would have), and ... this is isn't either of the ones I'd found. I bet if you scratch the surface there already at leat 5. Time from idea to output has dropped off a fucking cliff. 0: https://sgnt.ai/p/jev/ https://sgnt.ai/p/jev/
- applfanboysbgon 7d agoTime from pointless idea to bad output, anyways. We aren't seeing good software, and now neat hobby project ideas are getting harvested pointlessly when the only purpose of those ideas was the fun and learning of doing.
- cyanydeez 7d agoLLMs are now like major highways, and everyone thinks theyll solve software jams by just adding one more lane; but that just induces demand, and doesnt increase efficiency because the traffic jam is about how people evaluate usage and fill the voids. Similar to how we upgraded computers for decades and the software bloated to fill the specs
- fragmede 6d agoAlso known as Jevons Paradox and Wirth's law.
- yipinwong 7d agoGiven Jev does System 1 thinking, this would be equivalent to your ADHD heavy friend.
- voidUpdate 6d agoI hope my responses are a little more coherent than this... - Someone with ADHD
- IceDane 7d agoThe worst part about this is someone still using poetry for python development.
- nowittyusername 7d agoi think the next step is make Jev a emoji bot... The architecture and its limitations would work well in that regime imo better then human language.
- zarmin 7d agoi am having a bad day and the examples really cheered me up
- K0IN 7d agoI saw a lot of ppl think about what jev could use under the hood and could someone explain why this can't just be an embedding model where we just embed all the input + decisions and give back the cosine (or whatever) similarities?
- teravor 7d agoif you compare an embedding model to something like Jev which asks 100 questions and use the answers as the embedding you will be able to get move mileage out of the latter. especially because you don't need to train any classifiers for your task, you can work directly on the answers. that said, I don't understand the hype. I have been doing what Jev does for 2 years now by just forcing json tokens onto an LLM. you can even get the LLM to think. and you can ensemble multiple LLMs. I suppose the appeal of Jev is how cheap and fast it is, but then it's entirely unsuitable for anything but the most cursory extraction. using it to play games seems like a waste of time especially when most of those games will be played better by an algorithm written by an LLM (just give it the state and ask it to write a bot).
- anon7000 6d ago> I suppose the appeal of Jev is how cheap and fast it is Ok, so you do understand the hype. I mean cost & speed are reaaaaally big issues for normal LLMs. If you can fill a specific use case way cheaper and way faster, that’s a fantastic development. We need more niche tooling that’s more efficient and better for niche use cases. Not everything has to be general purpose. Not clear to me that playing games is the point of jev. This post is just a random fun experiment someone did because they wanted to.
- nemothekid 6d agoIf Jev can maintain its cost and speed with multi-modal input I think it will be well worth the hype.
- 112233 6d agoBut I can ask 100 causally masked questions against common prefix, and get 100 answers, all in a single PP pass using any existing "classical" attention transformer model? Like, I had the impression that is what everyone was doing for classification already? Is the difference "we did RL to tune logit distribution"? Because I really do not see anything new there. What is the difference?
- joshu 6d agoha i just tried making a sort of ouija board for jev this morning. it struggled. i look forward to reading how this one works.
- EdwardDiego 6d ago> We know Jev. I honestly don't.
- Yapping7880 6d agoThank god I'm not alone.
- boodleboodle 6d agoWe’ve come full circle to “BERT has a mouth and it must speak” https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.04094 https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.04094
- fen_wick 6d agoLousy chatbots are still surprisingly useful for prototyping. Wonder if Jev's structured data actually helped or hindered that process.
- petercooper 6d agoThere might be some practical applications of this sort of idea like in situations where you want/have a heavily restricted vocabulary to build from. You can already do this with LLMs but they can get very... "distressed" if you force logits, whereas this would not. Come to think of it, I'm now curious if it would do well at building SQL queries, say. (30 minutes later: I tried it, and it can do it reasonably well, but a normal model and linting will outperform it, though the inherent guard rails of a limited vocab are still intriguing.)
- finaard 6d agoI went for a slightly different approach, described in this thread: https://bsky.app/profile/bernd.wachter.fi/post/3mvv2g4zxp22v https://bsky.app/profile/bernd.wachter.fi/post/3mvv2g4zxp22v No code published currently, but if somebody is interested I can clean that up next weekend and throw it on github.