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Apparently all of south western europe blocks half the internet in the name of football. Besides Spain there's also Italy, France, Portugal and surprisingly the

by nottorp 11d ago

Apparently all of south western europe blocks half the internet in the name of football. Besides Spain there's also Italy, France, Portugal and surprisingly the UK somewhat.

chronogamous 11d ago
Your comment has got me genuinely intrigued. Would you care to elaborate how football has anything to do with the internet at all? (I'm writing this from northern Europe & as someone who has been avoiding football like the plague most of his life)
- cimi_ 11d ago
  The TV rights holders for football matches want to block pirate streams by any means necessary. Spain appears to be the worst, people get arrested in the UK for profiting off streams (so far, but the communication is pretty aggressive towards consumers too), I don't know about the other countries mentioned.
  - chronogamous 11d ago
    Wow, that's insane! If TV right holders actually got their way, it would enable them to control how a match is framed, and manipulate how the match is perceived at a country-level. Surely everybody watching should be able to see the same match being played, regardless of who controls the camera? The situation you describe sounds like a recipe for corruption and exploitation!
    - SiempreViernes 10d ago
      Really struggling to tell if this is meant as satire or not.
      - sandblast 10d ago
        Even if it is, it doesn't make sense for me. Pirate streams changing the… framing? The author tried to be sarcastic, but it didn't really work out.
        trumpdong 10d ago
        I think they are writing how news censorship can be used to edit opinions, but changed news to sports streams. Like how we all download hundreds of gigabytes of Linux ISOs.
        sandblast 10d ago
        I appreciate the attempt, but I'm still dumbfounded by that comment. After all, pirate streams are 1:1 copy of the official ones, and news censorship isn't about seeding newspaper scans…
  - IslandRebel 10d ago
    They largely can't do anything against consumers in the UK. One of the largest ISPs gave up sending the threatening letters because everyone just ignored them. Occassionally one of the tabloid hacks will write a piece about how naughty you are for pirating the latest <TV series finale>. Most people just set up a seedbox with a VPN connection (this is what I do) and I never worry about it.
- OtherShrezzing 11d ago
  The UK’s premier league tv rights are worth a little bit over £1bn/yr. The rights holders are tv companies who also run most of the UK’s domestic telecoms, so they lobby incredibly hard and effectively to have pirate match streaming sites blocked.
  - mitxela 11d ago
    There was a movement in the US over the past decade or so for media companies to buy up ISPs for the sole purpose of being able to apply blocking.
    - TitaRusell 11d ago
      At least in theory the blocking in EU has to go through a judge. Blocking itself is ofcourse not at all controversial in Europe. Aside from some free speech maximalists people have no problem with shutting down criminal operations.
      - mitxela 11d ago
        How do you know it's illegal if a judge hasn't ruled? In parts of Europe it's illegal to call someone's operations illegal if a judge hasn't ruled it.
        nottorp 11d ago
        In this case a judge who clearly does not use the internet for anything has ruled.
    - lotsofpulp 11d ago
      Comcast (an ISP) purchased NBC Universal in 2013, ATT (also an IPS) purchased Time Warner in 2018. But that was it, and both of those deals ended up being bad for the ISPs, with ATT already divested of Time Warner and Comcast trying to get rid of NBC Universal or whatever is left of it. I do not think blocking websites was a goal in either of those mergers, they were just trying to become big like Apple/Amazon/etc and not just be a dumb pipe like ISPs should be.
- nottorp 11d ago
  It's been on HN a couple times. They block cloudflare during matches because most "pirate" live streams are on there. That means you can't do any work that depends on a legit site that uses cloudflare. Or watch non football content if it's hosted in the wrong place.
  - mitxela 11d ago
    They block cloudflare during matches because at least one pirate livestream was on there at least once. These blocklists only ever grow, and rarely shrink. Obviously, pirate livestreams are not on there any more, since it's blocked and for-profit pirates aren't stupid.
- officialchicken 11d ago
  There was a case at the highest court in Spain where LaLiga[0] sucessfully claimed that illegal streaming was causing hundereds of million of euros in damages. They essentially petitioned for mass blocking of IPTV, causing Cloudflare, NordVPN, ProtonVPN and a few others to get caught up in a sloppy and stupid dragnet. Whenever there is a football match on, a not-so-small chunk of the internet becomes unavailable. After the match is over, it works again. [0] https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-relation-to-the-blocking-of-ips-during-the-recent-ea-sports-laliga-matchdays-linked-to-illegal-cloudflare-practices https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...
  - LtdJorge 11d ago
    It doesn’t just last for a match, sometimes they start at 00:00 and take the entire day.
  - torcete 11d ago
    I think I should add that Cloudflare (based on USA) doesn't refuse to block those IPTV, but they require the block mandate to come through a United States court. La Liga believes that this is pointless, by the time that has happened the match would have been over weeks ago. So they asked a Spanish judge to allow them to compile a list of IPs and send them to the Spanish ISPs to block them. Of course the ISPs are forced to comply. Well, behind these Cloudflare's IPs is not just IPTV, but a lot of legitimate webpages.
    - embedding-shape 11d ago
      > Well, behind these Cloudflare's IPs is not just IPTV, but a lot of legitimate webpages. Which was horrible and had lots of collateral damage when these blocks were initially implemented, but when you were affected, you wrote a complaint that the website been collaterally blocked, and the next time they did the "match blocks", the website was no longer blocked. Now years after, nothing of value is blocked during the games, at least for me on Vodafone, I don't even notice the blocks anymore (besides hearing the neighbors screaming during the matches themselves). It's a horrible idea in general, and clearly against both our "European Values" and Spanish constitution, as we should have access to a free internet which clearly isn't true. But on the other hand, it's important to reflect the situation as it is right now, in the real world, rather than lamenting about what was.
- deleted 11d ago
  [deleted]
static_motion 11d ago
Portugal only has DNS blocks on piracy sites, which are extremely easy to circumvent. I don't think that block is football-related.
gabaix 11d ago
France has blocked Polymarket since the World Cup in June. This was requested by the state gaming license authority, which sanction the betting business in France. Most of the business benefits the “Federation française des jeux”, the state gaming company. Officially this was done out of concern for the safety of the French citizens.
- TheRoque 11d ago
  I mean... Righfully so. All those new "gambling" websites (who aren't even regulated as such) are an insider trader's dream.
  - judge2020 11d ago
    A lot of trust in the government to only ban websites which are actively unhealthy for citizens and not websites which are critical or unfavorable to said government. I do wonder, was Polymarket given a chance to prevent itself from being accessed/used from Spain? They seem to be a-okay with blocking usage from US states that have asked them to cease operation, so I don't see why they would try to actively defy countries that have (legally) asked them to not do business there?
    - lemmetellya 11d ago
      This isn't a slippery slope. They ban gambling. Polymarket is gambling. It gets banned.
- bigbaguette 11d ago
  Gambling is quite regulated in France, it’s not new.
- saulapremium 11d ago
  >Officially this was done out of concern for the safety of the French citizens. Gambling regulations exist in most places in the world, including the US. With good reason.
jareklupinski 11d ago
torrent some popular movies on an American home ISP and you may get some nasty letters too every economy protects its crown jewels to a degree which seems excessive to its neighbors
- expedition32 11d ago
  It is no coincidence that a lot of piracy is now hosted in Russia.
  - mitxela 10d ago
    This has resulted in a lot of them blocking VPNs because Russia blocks VPNs at the backbone level.
  - antonkochubey 11d ago
    Always has been
  - jojobas 11d ago
    Russia protects its crown jewels by blocking anything of dissent, including youtube.

by nottorp 11d ago

Apparently all of south western europe blocks half the internet in the name of football. Besides Spain there's also Italy, France, Portugal and surprisingly the UK somewhat.

chronogamous 11d ago

Your comment has got me genuinely intrigued. Would you care to elaborate how football has anything to do with the internet at all? (I'm writing this from northern Europe & as someone who has been avoiding football like the plague most of his life)

cimi_ 11d ago
The TV rights holders for football matches want to block pirate streams by any means necessary. Spain appears to be the worst, people get arrested in the UK for profiting off streams (so far, but the communication is pretty aggressive towards consumers too), I don't know about the other countries mentioned.
- chronogamous 11d ago
  Wow, that's insane! If TV right holders actually got their way, it would enable them to control how a match is framed, and manipulate how the match is perceived at a country-level. Surely everybody watching should be able to see the same match being played, regardless of who controls the camera? The situation you describe sounds like a recipe for corruption and exploitation!
  - SiempreViernes 10d ago
    Really struggling to tell if this is meant as satire or not.
    - sandblast 10d ago
      Even if it is, it doesn't make sense for me. Pirate streams changing the… framing? The author tried to be sarcastic, but it didn't really work out.
      - trumpdong 10d ago
        I think they are writing how news censorship can be used to edit opinions, but changed news to sports streams. Like how we all download hundreds of gigabytes of Linux ISOs.
        sandblast 10d ago
        I appreciate the attempt, but I'm still dumbfounded by that comment. After all, pirate streams are 1:1 copy of the official ones, and news censorship isn't about seeding newspaper scans…
- IslandRebel 10d ago
  They largely can't do anything against consumers in the UK. One of the largest ISPs gave up sending the threatening letters because everyone just ignored them. Occassionally one of the tabloid hacks will write a piece about how naughty you are for pirating the latest <TV series finale>. Most people just set up a seedbox with a VPN connection (this is what I do) and I never worry about it.
OtherShrezzing 11d ago
The UK’s premier league tv rights are worth a little bit over £1bn/yr. The rights holders are tv companies who also run most of the UK’s domestic telecoms, so they lobby incredibly hard and effectively to have pirate match streaming sites blocked.
- mitxela 11d ago
  There was a movement in the US over the past decade or so for media companies to buy up ISPs for the sole purpose of being able to apply blocking.
  - TitaRusell 11d ago
    At least in theory the blocking in EU has to go through a judge. Blocking itself is ofcourse not at all controversial in Europe. Aside from some free speech maximalists people have no problem with shutting down criminal operations.
    - mitxela 11d ago
      How do you know it's illegal if a judge hasn't ruled? In parts of Europe it's illegal to call someone's operations illegal if a judge hasn't ruled it.
      - nottorp 11d ago
        In this case a judge who clearly does not use the internet for anything has ruled.
  - lotsofpulp 11d ago
    Comcast (an ISP) purchased NBC Universal in 2013, ATT (also an IPS) purchased Time Warner in 2018. But that was it, and both of those deals ended up being bad for the ISPs, with ATT already divested of Time Warner and Comcast trying to get rid of NBC Universal or whatever is left of it. I do not think blocking websites was a goal in either of those mergers, they were just trying to become big like Apple/Amazon/etc and not just be a dumb pipe like ISPs should be.
nottorp 11d ago
It's been on HN a couple times. They block cloudflare during matches because most "pirate" live streams are on there. That means you can't do any work that depends on a legit site that uses cloudflare. Or watch non football content if it's hosted in the wrong place.
- mitxela 11d ago
  They block cloudflare during matches because at least one pirate livestream was on there at least once. These blocklists only ever grow, and rarely shrink. Obviously, pirate livestreams are not on there any more, since it's blocked and for-profit pirates aren't stupid.
officialchicken 11d ago
There was a case at the highest court in Spain where LaLiga[0] sucessfully claimed that illegal streaming was causing hundereds of million of euros in damages. They essentially petitioned for mass blocking of IPTV, causing Cloudflare, NordVPN, ProtonVPN and a few others to get caught up in a sloppy and stupid dragnet. Whenever there is a football match on, a not-so-small chunk of the internet becomes unavailable. After the match is over, it works again. [0] https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-relation-to-the-blocking-of-ips-during-the-recent-ea-sports-laliga-matchdays-linked-to-illegal-cloudflare-practices https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...
- LtdJorge 11d ago
  It doesn’t just last for a match, sometimes they start at 00:00 and take the entire day.
- torcete 11d ago
  I think I should add that Cloudflare (based on USA) doesn't refuse to block those IPTV, but they require the block mandate to come through a United States court. La Liga believes that this is pointless, by the time that has happened the match would have been over weeks ago. So they asked a Spanish judge to allow them to compile a list of IPs and send them to the Spanish ISPs to block them. Of course the ISPs are forced to comply. Well, behind these Cloudflare's IPs is not just IPTV, but a lot of legitimate webpages.
  - embedding-shape 11d ago
    > Well, behind these Cloudflare's IPs is not just IPTV, but a lot of legitimate webpages. Which was horrible and had lots of collateral damage when these blocks were initially implemented, but when you were affected, you wrote a complaint that the website been collaterally blocked, and the next time they did the "match blocks", the website was no longer blocked. Now years after, nothing of value is blocked during the games, at least for me on Vodafone, I don't even notice the blocks anymore (besides hearing the neighbors screaming during the matches themselves). It's a horrible idea in general, and clearly against both our "European Values" and Spanish constitution, as we should have access to a free internet which clearly isn't true. But on the other hand, it's important to reflect the situation as it is right now, in the real world, rather than lamenting about what was.
deleted 11d ago
[deleted]

static_motion 11d ago

Portugal only has DNS blocks on piracy sites, which are extremely easy to circumvent. I don't think that block is football-related.

gabaix 11d ago

France has blocked Polymarket since the World Cup in June. This was requested by the state gaming license authority, which sanction the betting business in France. Most of the business benefits the “Federation française des jeux”, the state gaming company. Officially this was done out of concern for the safety of the French citizens.

TheRoque 11d ago
I mean... Righfully so. All those new "gambling" websites (who aren't even regulated as such) are an insider trader's dream.
- judge2020 11d ago
  A lot of trust in the government to only ban websites which are actively unhealthy for citizens and not websites which are critical or unfavorable to said government. I do wonder, was Polymarket given a chance to prevent itself from being accessed/used from Spain? They seem to be a-okay with blocking usage from US states that have asked them to cease operation, so I don't see why they would try to actively defy countries that have (legally) asked them to not do business there?
  - lemmetellya 11d ago
    This isn't a slippery slope. They ban gambling. Polymarket is gambling. It gets banned.
bigbaguette 11d ago
Gambling is quite regulated in France, it’s not new.
saulapremium 11d ago
>Officially this was done out of concern for the safety of the French citizens. Gambling regulations exist in most places in the world, including the US. With good reason.

jareklupinski 11d ago

torrent some popular movies on an American home ISP and you may get some nasty letters too every economy protects its crown jewels to a degree which seems excessive to its neighbors

expedition32 11d ago
It is no coincidence that a lot of piracy is now hosted in Russia.
- mitxela 10d ago
  This has resulted in a lot of them blocking VPNs because Russia blocks VPNs at the backbone level.
- antonkochubey 11d ago
  Always has been
- jojobas 11d ago
  Russia protects its crown jewels by blocking anything of dissent, including youtube.