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> …been the norm for months… You know, it’s petty, but I think one of the things I hate the most about AI is that it surpassed front end JavaScript frameworks

by lovich 10d ago

> …been the norm for months… You know, it’s petty, but I think one of the things I hate the most about AI is that it surpassed front end JavaScript frameworks in terms of changing what the standard is every few years. What’s the point of learning anything if it becomes obsolete faster than the seasons change?

Daishiman 10d ago
To be fair the JS frontend communities brought this to themselves way before LLM slop.
sublinear 10d ago
Just so you know, the frontend framework wars started and ended pretty quickly in the latter half of the 2010s. It was the downstream effect of the browser wars settling down and W3C making big moves on getting vendors to finally implement standards that were sorely needed. It had nothing to do with web dev culture.
- lovich 10d ago
  > It had nothing to do with web dev culture. It may not have been started because of web dev culture, but it definitely influenced web dev culture.
  - sublinear 10d ago
    Are you a web developer?
    - lovich 10d ago
      I was before the market crunched. What's the reason for the credential check?
      - sublinear 7d ago
        For a topic that "definitely influenced web dev culture", you didn't have much to say as a web dev.
- gamessucknow 10d ago
  > Just so you know, the frontend framework wars started and ended pretty quickly in the latter half of the 2010s. Funny thing on HN. I saw people actively complaining about “JavaScript framework of the week” posts well into the early 2020s… when they were no longer really a thing.
- theamk 10d ago
  I dunno, here is an entrant from 2025: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45071024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45071024 (not a JS dev myself, but I read HN so I see those posts every once in a while..)
  - sublinear 10d ago
    The most urgent needs in frontend web dev were components and state management. Vue and React won out, and I still don't see that changing for the foreseeable future on the vast majority of corporate web apps. This remaining split is just coke vs pepsi. Basically, a meaningless distinction and stable. I don't doubt there will always be new tools, but a lot of HN doesn't see the forest for the trees when it comes to web. So many people chime in ignorantly just to be bullies and spread FUD and self-promote. I think that strategy not going to work again for a while. Everyone is very burned out on that overplayed game in all aspects of life, not just web dev. If anyone is interested in frontend dev, LLMs only further entrench this situation. Now is the time to be creative with mature tools and learn a thing or two. The web summer is upon us, not an autumn of dying tools nor a winter of AI replacing people.
arnaudsm 10d ago
It's the fear of being left behind that fuels both these things.
- croes 10d ago
  Left behind what? If AI works as promised coming late to the game is an advantage. How many tricks for prompts are already obsolete, how many tools, harnesses etc. are already replaced by better alternatives? It’s the difference between knowing a foreign language and only using a translator. The former changes you brain structure and your way of thinking, the latter don’t.
  - lovich 10d ago
    Yea. I've evaluated these AI development patterns 3-4 times over the past year while applying for jobs. I've been told by currently employed engineers that I was at state of the art development after a week of using them each time. This also seems to have played out in hiring as every interview I've managed to pull has been completely schizophrenic with the interviewers wanting me to show AI fluency(for whatever that means) and then seemingly panicking mid way through as I start using the AI that can immediately solve the bog standard interview questions and then switch to having me manually build things.
analognoise 10d ago
There are a massive number of people who want the ends of programming and geekery but lacked the means. They are overjoyed that they can abrogate the means and enjoy the reflected light of achievement, especially if it cheapens the part they feel inferior about: namely, actually understanding and learning about the systems. As such, to them, it’s a BENEFIT if the systems change at a rate no mortal would ever agree to. Why learn anything, after all?
- sublinear 10d ago
  To be fair, technology has never been able to completely replace humans at anything unless the job was explicitly designed (factory/assembly) rather than organically discovered. Writing software is one of those organic roles because it touches so many parts of a business. If you ask 100 devs to explain what they do, you'll get at least 100 distinct answers. For the "organic" roles we have attempted to replace, we just keep lowering our standards. Doctors and lawyers are a good example of that. Obviously, the doctors and lawyers aren't going anywhere. What is bound to occur to dev work is the opposite of what the doomers say. We will probably go back to the jack-of-all-trades type of dev. All the specialists/contractors and their certifications become worthless again. If the expected skillset becomes broader, that only further resists automation.

by lovich 10d ago

Daishiman 10d ago

To be fair the JS frontend communities brought this to themselves way before LLM slop.

sublinear 10d ago

Just so you know, the frontend framework wars started and ended pretty quickly in the latter half of the 2010s. It was the downstream effect of the browser wars settling down and W3C making big moves on getting vendors to finally implement standards that were sorely needed. It had nothing to do with web dev culture.

lovich 10d ago
> It had nothing to do with web dev culture. It may not have been started because of web dev culture, but it definitely influenced web dev culture.
- sublinear 10d ago
  Are you a web developer?
  - lovich 10d ago
    I was before the market crunched. What's the reason for the credential check?
    - sublinear 7d ago
      For a topic that "definitely influenced web dev culture", you didn't have much to say as a web dev.
gamessucknow 10d ago
> Just so you know, the frontend framework wars started and ended pretty quickly in the latter half of the 2010s. Funny thing on HN. I saw people actively complaining about “JavaScript framework of the week” posts well into the early 2020s… when they were no longer really a thing.
theamk 10d ago
I dunno, here is an entrant from 2025: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45071024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45071024 (not a JS dev myself, but I read HN so I see those posts every once in a while..)
- sublinear 10d ago
  The most urgent needs in frontend web dev were components and state management. Vue and React won out, and I still don't see that changing for the foreseeable future on the vast majority of corporate web apps. This remaining split is just coke vs pepsi. Basically, a meaningless distinction and stable. I don't doubt there will always be new tools, but a lot of HN doesn't see the forest for the trees when it comes to web. So many people chime in ignorantly just to be bullies and spread FUD and self-promote. I think that strategy not going to work again for a while. Everyone is very burned out on that overplayed game in all aspects of life, not just web dev. If anyone is interested in frontend dev, LLMs only further entrench this situation. Now is the time to be creative with mature tools and learn a thing or two. The web summer is upon us, not an autumn of dying tools nor a winter of AI replacing people.

arnaudsm 10d ago

It's the fear of being left behind that fuels both these things.

croes 10d ago
Left behind what? If AI works as promised coming late to the game is an advantage. How many tricks for prompts are already obsolete, how many tools, harnesses etc. are already replaced by better alternatives? It’s the difference between knowing a foreign language and only using a translator. The former changes you brain structure and your way of thinking, the latter don’t.
- lovich 10d ago
  Yea. I've evaluated these AI development patterns 3-4 times over the past year while applying for jobs. I've been told by currently employed engineers that I was at state of the art development after a week of using them each time. This also seems to have played out in hiring as every interview I've managed to pull has been completely schizophrenic with the interviewers wanting me to show AI fluency(for whatever that means) and then seemingly panicking mid way through as I start using the AI that can immediately solve the bog standard interview questions and then switch to having me manually build things.

analognoise 10d ago

There are a massive number of people who want the ends of programming and geekery but lacked the means. They are overjoyed that they can abrogate the means and enjoy the reflected light of achievement, especially if it cheapens the part they feel inferior about: namely, actually understanding and learning about the systems. As such, to them, it’s a BENEFIT if the systems change at a rate no mortal would ever agree to. Why learn anything, after all?

sublinear 10d ago
To be fair, technology has never been able to completely replace humans at anything unless the job was explicitly designed (factory/assembly) rather than organically discovered. Writing software is one of those organic roles because it touches so many parts of a business. If you ask 100 devs to explain what they do, you'll get at least 100 distinct answers. For the "organic" roles we have attempted to replace, we just keep lowering our standards. Doctors and lawyers are a good example of that. Obviously, the doctors and lawyers aren't going anywhere. What is bound to occur to dev work is the opposite of what the doomers say. We will probably go back to the jack-of-all-trades type of dev. All the specialists/contractors and their certifications become worthless again. If the expected skillset becomes broader, that only further resists automation.