4 ms·

I'm proud to live in the EU because for all its faults we have one thing going for us, we seem to be the only large institution that countries still want to vol

I'm proud to live in the EU because for all its faults we have one thing going for us, we seem to be the only large institution that countries still want to voluntarily join, and can voluntarily leave. In a world in which the other great powers revive the Monroe Doctrine or threaten their magnitude smaller neighbors with annexation we're not doing so badly. There is an inherent pettiness, weakness and fake strength in autocracy and force and it's often why I think the EU receives so much disproportionate hate.

graemep 18d ago
The UK left, Iceland just voted not to join. The EU does not have a military to annex any neighbours with. Individual states do, but non are really great powers any more.
- penguin_booze 17d ago
  > The UK left Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. > The EU does not have a military to annex any neighbours with. Individual states do, but non are really great powers any more. You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that.
  - graemep 17d ago
    > Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. Yes, it seems to have made no difference. economically - economy performing much the same as France and Germany. Lots of lives saved by the faster covid vaccine rollout which is a plus IMO. > You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that. You are missing my point. Not annexing anyone when its not an option because you cannot does not prove anything. I have never even been to America - why would I project an American ideal?
    - khalic 17d ago
      edit: removed, didn’t properly read the context
      - graemep 17d ago
        > Do you seriously consider invasion of other countries a good thing No, of course not. I really do not understand how you interpreted what I said as saying taht. Can people please read what I said in the context of the comment i replied to!
        khalic 17d ago
        Sorry, corrected
    - corford 17d ago
      Brexit has caused an estimated ~6-8% per capita loss of output: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv0m164m84o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv0m164m84o
- lefra 17d ago
  "Annexing neighbour" is clearly a non-goal of the EU. One of the reason of its existence is to put an end to european countries invading each others all the time.
- the_gipsy 17d ago
  Do you really think the USA could annex anything but (maybe) Cuba, after seeing how the Iran war is playing out?
- etiennebausson 17d ago
  Iceland said no because they are afraid of overfishing in their water. It isn't an unreasonable fear, especially given their dependance on that food source. Their "No" was perfectly reasonnable from what I can see. Britain's "Leave" campain was drowning in lies, exageration, and british-empire nostalgia. Those two situations are very different.
- Barrin92 17d ago
  >The UK left, Iceland just voted not to join. I don't know if you even made it to the end of the first sentence I wrote, but the fact that the UK could leave and is treated with respect, the fact that Iceland, a country of four hundred thousand people, which we could but will never threaten either economically or militarily, can decide their own future is a strength of the union. We do not coerce our neighbors, no matter how small.
drstewart 17d ago
>we seem to be the only large institution that countries still want to voluntarily join, and can voluntarily leave. Really? Because there's this organisation called CUSMA that nations can voluntarily leave (the US) and some want to stay in (Canada). It's economy is larger than the EU btw.
- vrganj 17d ago
  CUSMA is just a trade deal, not a full-on organization like the EU. If we're doing a trade deal measuring contest, I will just point out that the EU has the world's largest free trade network, including Canada (already), South Korea, most of Latin America, India etc etc.
  - drstewart 17d ago
    NATO is an organisation and people want to join it - and it has more countries than the EU. Let me guess: NATO doesn't count because... Sorry, the EU does not have any special mythical status that does not apply to other organisations, unless you want to play word games so it's the only one that even qualifies.
    - vrganj 17d ago
      Apples, Oranges etc once again. Of course NATO is a completely different kind of organization from the EU. The Catholic Church has more members than NATO, too, but it's a completely nonsensical comparison. The EU doesn't have some mythical status that doesn't apply to any other organization, it just has a very specific status in political science that it's the most successful example of: Supranationalism. Anyways, why are we doing this silly phallus size competition in the first place? Can't we just accept that the EU is a major player on the world stage and that people look up to it?

graemep 18d ago

The UK left, Iceland just voted not to join. The EU does not have a military to annex any neighbours with. Individual states do, but non are really great powers any more.

penguin_booze 17d ago
> The UK left Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. > The EU does not have a military to annex any neighbours with. Individual states do, but non are really great powers any more. You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that.
- graemep 17d ago
  > Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. Yes, it seems to have made no difference. economically - economy performing much the same as France and Germany. Lots of lives saved by the faster covid vaccine rollout which is a plus IMO. > You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that. You are missing my point. Not annexing anyone when its not an option because you cannot does not prove anything. I have never even been to America - why would I project an American ideal?
  - khalic 17d ago
    edit: removed, didn’t properly read the context
    - graemep 17d ago
      > Do you seriously consider invasion of other countries a good thing No, of course not. I really do not understand how you interpreted what I said as saying taht. Can people please read what I said in the context of the comment i replied to!
      - khalic 17d ago
        Sorry, corrected
  - corford 17d ago
    Brexit has caused an estimated ~6-8% per capita loss of output: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv0m164m84o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv0m164m84o
lefra 17d ago
"Annexing neighbour" is clearly a non-goal of the EU. One of the reason of its existence is to put an end to european countries invading each others all the time.
the_gipsy 17d ago
Do you really think the USA could annex anything but (maybe) Cuba, after seeing how the Iran war is playing out?
etiennebausson 17d ago
Iceland said no because they are afraid of overfishing in their water. It isn't an unreasonable fear, especially given their dependance on that food source. Their "No" was perfectly reasonnable from what I can see. Britain's "Leave" campain was drowning in lies, exageration, and british-empire nostalgia. Those two situations are very different.
Barrin92 17d ago
>The UK left, Iceland just voted not to join. I don't know if you even made it to the end of the first sentence I wrote, but the fact that the UK could leave and is treated with respect, the fact that Iceland, a country of four hundred thousand people, which we could but will never threaten either economically or militarily, can decide their own future is a strength of the union. We do not coerce our neighbors, no matter how small.

drstewart 17d ago

>we seem to be the only large institution that countries still want to voluntarily join, and can voluntarily leave. Really? Because there's this organisation called CUSMA that nations can voluntarily leave (the US) and some want to stay in (Canada). It's economy is larger than the EU btw.

vrganj 17d ago
CUSMA is just a trade deal, not a full-on organization like the EU. If we're doing a trade deal measuring contest, I will just point out that the EU has the world's largest free trade network, including Canada (already), South Korea, most of Latin America, India etc etc.
- drstewart 17d ago
  NATO is an organisation and people want to join it - and it has more countries than the EU. Let me guess: NATO doesn't count because... Sorry, the EU does not have any special mythical status that does not apply to other organisations, unless you want to play word games so it's the only one that even qualifies.
  - vrganj 17d ago
    Apples, Oranges etc once again. Of course NATO is a completely different kind of organization from the EU. The Catholic Church has more members than NATO, too, but it's a completely nonsensical comparison. The EU doesn't have some mythical status that doesn't apply to any other organization, it just has a very specific status in political science that it's the most successful example of: Supranationalism. Anyways, why are we doing this silly phallus size competition in the first place? Can't we just accept that the EU is a major player on the world stage and that people look up to it?