3 ms·

The city I grew up in had no roundabouts back then. Today it does have some, some were even made and removed again since. People there hate roundabouts. The ci

by herbst 12d ago

The city I grew up in had no roundabouts back then. Today it does have some, some were even made and removed again since. People there hate roundabouts. The city I live nearby now has so many roundabouts that I can drive for over an hour without seeing a traffic light. It always had those, people are used to using them. Guess what works better and barely has any traffic issues at all.

LargoLasskhyfv 12d ago
As a bicyclist I hate them, at least the smaller ones. Because they slow me down, can't take them with 40 to 50 kph, need to slow down to 30. But that was the intent, yes? However, crossings with traffic lights I can take at any speed I'm able to, when they are green for me, and I don't need to turn. Or if I can oversee them from afar, and they are empty, and I can give a shit about 'lights'.
- herbst 12d ago
  Some roundabouts here have bike pass troughs on the side (obviously only works if there is no turn to that side) for speedy drivers like you. Other than that it's obviously by design. There is no reason to speed at constant 50kph in a city. Nether for a car, motorbike or e-bike.
  - rightnutwingjob 10d ago
    The think I don’t like about not being able to “speed” at 50kph(!) through a city is that, at least in Australia with it’s excessive compliment of bureaucratic Karens, is the 30 > 50 > 70 > 60 > 40 > 30 > SCHOOL ZONE > 80 > 40 > 50 > 30 nightmare. Which does two things, raises state revenue and causes drivers to spend way to much time concentrating on how fast they are going rather than driving to suit the conditions and paying focusing to what’s going on in front of them. And don’t get me started on the pot holes.
    - sagarm 10d ago
      Sounds like you'd prefer just setting a single safe speed of 30?
    - herbst 10d ago
      I mean sure I also hate that as a biker, however it's the one thing that keeps my mind from drifting off so I guess it's necessary.
      - rightnutwingjob 10d ago
        I cycle, ride motorbikes, and drive cars & vans. I’d rather be in flow state while doing any of those, than constantly be yanked out of it because I’m concerned I might be do 3kph over the legal speed limit.
    - crote 9d ago
      That's just traditional design failure. A well-designed road network has higher-speed through roads and lower-speed local roads - and a school (serving the local neighbourhood) has zero business being near a through road. And to make it a two-for-one special: roads shouldn't need speed signs to begin with. The road should be designed for a certain speed, so that driving any faster feels uncomfortable and unsafe. If it is physically possible to drive 80 in a 30, something has gone terribly wrong already. Roundabouts are a great addition to this: you can't exactly speed through them, so you are forced to slow down.
- oneeyedpigeon 10d ago
  > any speed I'm able to Well, provided you can still stop in time should the lights begin to change.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 10d ago
    I've got hydraulic disk brakes on several of my bikes. Though I avoid using them for such full-stops, because the places I'm bicycling in I usually know the traffic patterns, and how the lights change. Also I'm not riding 'blindly', though if I can oversee that from afar, and it's empty, I'm pretending color-blindness. I'm doing this since about 1980 at speeds up to 70kph for maybe up to two minutes on flat grounds (exception 73.5 uphill here https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.719937&mlon=7.111630#map=19/50.719936/7.111630 https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.719937&mlon=7.111630#... in the middle of two lanes between gridlocked cars, unforgettable ooomph), 55 to 60 for about an hour, and 45 to 50 effortless, with no sweat, almost any time. Of course I feel strong head-winds, and they do slow me down. And never ever caused an accident, just touched the rubberlip of a Citroen 2CVs rear bumper with my front wheel once at about 65. In a roundabout ofc, because the fuckers slowed down for turning out without even blinking. Bicycle was trash, but I've been unhurt, except for very numb and tingling at the same time, hands, soles of my feet, and initial breathlessness. Which all went away after a few minutes, no bruises, no torn clothes. After having made a salto over the handlebar, managed to separate from my bicycle in the air, pushing it aside, and landing flat on my back after 15 to 20 meters, or so. Holding my head upright, intentionally. No tingling or numbness there. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.070329/6.999691 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.070329/6.999691 Long live the CWU-36P Nomex Flight Jacket from about 1981. Still have that one, but with a new zipper, and new cuffs. I'm considering that thing my 'supercape' :-) And real Levis 501 as they were made in 1988! Got myself a 'pre-owned' Bianchi with Campagnolo group the next day, for 1500 Deutsche Mark and cackled madly with joy :-) 80 to 90 downhill(on paved roads, not through the wilderness!), if weather allows, and I'm in top form. 90kph is not a good, or easy thing on any bicycle. But... speed is what I need! Where am I even doing 90? Several places on CO82, on my way back from Independence Pass to Aspen. If weather (mostly wind, can't have strong gusts!) and traffic permits. https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=39.1197&mlon=-106.5797#map=11/39.1197/-106.5797 https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=39.1197&mlon=-106.5797#m... What else? I don't wear a helmet. And no doping. Never even tried that. For what?
onionisafruit 10d ago
You only need one roundabout to be able to drive for hours without seeing a traffic light. It’s one of the main features of loops.
- kazinator 10d ago
  Famous scene in Chevy Chase's European Vacation.
- herbst 10d ago
  In fact it's illegal to take more than 3 rounds in Switzerland.
- Sohcahtoa82 10d ago
  One YouTuber did 24 hours in a roundabout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqF8zLWo570 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqF8zLWo570 Even refueled while driving and got pulled over by police once. The police was basically just like "It's not illegal, but we got a report about you and wanted to make sure you're okay. You can keep doing it as long as you're not impeding traffic".
- crote 9d ago
  Depends on the roundabout, actually. With a turbo roundabout[0] the lanes form a spiral rather than a circle, so you are automatically forced to the outside and doing multiple turns is physically impossible. [0]: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turborotonde#/media/Bestand:Turbo_Roundabout.svg https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turborotonde#/media/Bestand:Tu...
marcosdumay 10d ago
> Guess what works better and barely has any traffic issues at all. The one that where mass transit works better. But yeah, a city still needs cars, and roundabouts are still unbeatable in low-traffic crossings. But they are not the most impacting change a city can make.
- herbst 10d ago
  I am sure you aren't wrong. But in the exact 2 cities I was thinking about the non roundabout one definitely has the "better" public transit and definitely more people using it daily. (Salzburg AT Vs Thun CH) Thun has just a really good street system and city layout generally I guess.

by herbst 12d ago

LargoLasskhyfv 12d ago

As a bicyclist I hate them, at least the smaller ones. Because they slow me down, can't take them with 40 to 50 kph, need to slow down to 30. But that was the intent, yes? However, crossings with traffic lights I can take at any speed I'm able to, when they are green for me, and I don't need to turn. Or if I can oversee them from afar, and they are empty, and I can give a shit about 'lights'.

herbst 12d ago
Some roundabouts here have bike pass troughs on the side (obviously only works if there is no turn to that side) for speedy drivers like you. Other than that it's obviously by design. There is no reason to speed at constant 50kph in a city. Nether for a car, motorbike or e-bike.
- rightnutwingjob 10d ago
  The think I don’t like about not being able to “speed” at 50kph(!) through a city is that, at least in Australia with it’s excessive compliment of bureaucratic Karens, is the 30 > 50 > 70 > 60 > 40 > 30 > SCHOOL ZONE > 80 > 40 > 50 > 30 nightmare. Which does two things, raises state revenue and causes drivers to spend way to much time concentrating on how fast they are going rather than driving to suit the conditions and paying focusing to what’s going on in front of them. And don’t get me started on the pot holes.
  - sagarm 10d ago
    Sounds like you'd prefer just setting a single safe speed of 30?
  - herbst 10d ago
    I mean sure I also hate that as a biker, however it's the one thing that keeps my mind from drifting off so I guess it's necessary.
    - rightnutwingjob 10d ago
      I cycle, ride motorbikes, and drive cars & vans. I’d rather be in flow state while doing any of those, than constantly be yanked out of it because I’m concerned I might be do 3kph over the legal speed limit.
  - crote 9d ago
    That's just traditional design failure. A well-designed road network has higher-speed through roads and lower-speed local roads - and a school (serving the local neighbourhood) has zero business being near a through road. And to make it a two-for-one special: roads shouldn't need speed signs to begin with. The road should be designed for a certain speed, so that driving any faster feels uncomfortable and unsafe. If it is physically possible to drive 80 in a 30, something has gone terribly wrong already. Roundabouts are a great addition to this: you can't exactly speed through them, so you are forced to slow down.
oneeyedpigeon 10d ago
> any speed I'm able to Well, provided you can still stop in time should the lights begin to change.
- LargoLasskhyfv 10d ago
  I've got hydraulic disk brakes on several of my bikes. Though I avoid using them for such full-stops, because the places I'm bicycling in I usually know the traffic patterns, and how the lights change. Also I'm not riding 'blindly', though if I can oversee that from afar, and it's empty, I'm pretending color-blindness. I'm doing this since about 1980 at speeds up to 70kph for maybe up to two minutes on flat grounds (exception 73.5 uphill here https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.719937&mlon=7.111630#map=19/50.719936/7.111630 https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.719937&mlon=7.111630#... in the middle of two lanes between gridlocked cars, unforgettable ooomph), 55 to 60 for about an hour, and 45 to 50 effortless, with no sweat, almost any time. Of course I feel strong head-winds, and they do slow me down. And never ever caused an accident, just touched the rubberlip of a Citroen 2CVs rear bumper with my front wheel once at about 65. In a roundabout ofc, because the fuckers slowed down for turning out without even blinking. Bicycle was trash, but I've been unhurt, except for very numb and tingling at the same time, hands, soles of my feet, and initial breathlessness. Which all went away after a few minutes, no bruises, no torn clothes. After having made a salto over the handlebar, managed to separate from my bicycle in the air, pushing it aside, and landing flat on my back after 15 to 20 meters, or so. Holding my head upright, intentionally. No tingling or numbness there. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.070329/6.999691 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.070329/6.999691 Long live the CWU-36P Nomex Flight Jacket from about 1981. Still have that one, but with a new zipper, and new cuffs. I'm considering that thing my 'supercape' :-) And real Levis 501 as they were made in 1988! Got myself a 'pre-owned' Bianchi with Campagnolo group the next day, for 1500 Deutsche Mark and cackled madly with joy :-) 80 to 90 downhill(on paved roads, not through the wilderness!), if weather allows, and I'm in top form. 90kph is not a good, or easy thing on any bicycle. But... speed is what I need! Where am I even doing 90? Several places on CO82, on my way back from Independence Pass to Aspen. If weather (mostly wind, can't have strong gusts!) and traffic permits. https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=39.1197&mlon=-106.5797#map=11/39.1197/-106.5797 https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=39.1197&mlon=-106.5797#m... What else? I don't wear a helmet. And no doping. Never even tried that. For what?

onionisafruit 10d ago

You only need one roundabout to be able to drive for hours without seeing a traffic light. It’s one of the main features of loops.

kazinator 10d ago
Famous scene in Chevy Chase's European Vacation.
herbst 10d ago
In fact it's illegal to take more than 3 rounds in Switzerland.
Sohcahtoa82 10d ago
One YouTuber did 24 hours in a roundabout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqF8zLWo570 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqF8zLWo570 Even refueled while driving and got pulled over by police once. The police was basically just like "It's not illegal, but we got a report about you and wanted to make sure you're okay. You can keep doing it as long as you're not impeding traffic".
crote 9d ago
Depends on the roundabout, actually. With a turbo roundabout[0] the lanes form a spiral rather than a circle, so you are automatically forced to the outside and doing multiple turns is physically impossible. [0]: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turborotonde#/media/Bestand:Turbo_Roundabout.svg https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turborotonde#/media/Bestand:Tu...

marcosdumay 10d ago

> Guess what works better and barely has any traffic issues at all. The one that where mass transit works better. But yeah, a city still needs cars, and roundabouts are still unbeatable in low-traffic crossings. But they are not the most impacting change a city can make.

herbst 10d ago
I am sure you aren't wrong. But in the exact 2 cities I was thinking about the non roundabout one definitely has the "better" public transit and definitely more people using it daily. (Salzburg AT Vs Thun CH) Thun has just a really good street system and city layout generally I guess.