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Really? My employer rolled back to opus 4.8 because 5 was expensive AND crap. Didnt even consider fable because it didn’t add any additional value. For most so

Really? My employer rolled back to opus 4.8 because 5 was expensive AND crap. Didnt even consider fable because it didn’t add any additional value. For most software eng and design work opus 4.6-4.8 just works fine. For everyday joe asking ai to plan a trip or home diy work even sonnet works fine. Any cybersecurity or other areas are niches that cannot support trillion $ valuations. What am I missing? Genuinely curious

bpodgursky 20d ago
If Fable doesn't add additional value in your workplace, it means you aren't being ambitious enough in how you integrate agents into your workstream. Yes, it's probably comparable to 4.8 if you are just using it to write code and put up a couple pull requests. That's not where things are now.
- bix6 20d ago
  And where are things now?
- nradov 20d ago
  You shouldn't be down voted, AI native companies have already moved up to the next level beyond writing individual PRs.
  - Tanjreeve 20d ago
    "AI Native" here meaning Companies where your token use isn't scrutinised/capped yet?
- nozzlegear 20d ago
  This is just "you're holding it wrong" with a little smooch of condescension. If only we plebeians could comprehend what magnificent works those who have ambitiously integrated agents into the workstream have wrought!
  - bpodgursky 20d ago
    I mean it's very easy to comprehend and you don't need me for it. Just download claude code or codex and ask it to give suggestions about where to integrate agents into your workstream.
    - nozzlegear 20d ago
      To be perfectly clear: my comment has nothing to do with your workflow, but rather with the way you've condescendingly implied the person's work is trifling and inferior because they don't use tools the same way you do.
  - plorkyeran 20d ago
    Sometimes you actually are holding it wrong. It's pretty reasonable to think that Fable isn't worth the massive increase in cost, but if you think it outright doesn't have any benefits over Opus 4.8 then your workflow is probably not making good use of the tools.
    - nozzlegear 20d ago
      > Sometimes you actually are holding it wrong. I couldn't imagine being so presumptuous as to know that my workflow fits all sizes, and all others are just holding it wrong – or worse, they're not doing real work. It would take a bigger ego on my part, or maybe less social awareness, to presume this. > but if you think it outright doesn't have any benefits over Opus 4.8 then your workflow is probably not making good use of the tools. I don't even use claude, I give exactly zero shits about fable or opus or bingus bongus.
- drTobiasFunke 20d ago
  By ambitious if you mean we are not like all the linkedin influencers with their “i one shotted an app this morning…” then no, we are not. Nobody is. I have been in software engineering for 18 years and 6 different companies including FANG and 99% of the people, on 99% of the days arnt writing new apps from scratch. Thats simply not how anything works. And what even are these ambitious companies and people one shotting and building with Fable? AI has been around for almost 3 years now. Tell me one app or software you use which has gotten significantly better and has amazing new useful features landing on a weekly basis? If anything, every single software product I use has gotten worse.
lukan 20d ago
No idea what you are missing and yes, Opus is quite solid, but Fable is clearly way better for me. I just did a direct comparison, big change in a quite complex codebase. Same prompt for Opus, same for Fable. Fable clearly won and delivered very good results, while Opus delivered mediocre, so I did not let it finish. I expected both to fail and was prepared to do lots of manual steering, but not necessary with Fable one shotting it, and all this with 35$ of credits for fable. I am still impressed. If I would have had to hire a human, it would have cost me thousands of dollar for the same task - and a way longer time. So maybe the valuations are overblown, but they clearly provide value for me.
- ipaddr 20d ago
  "Opus delivered mediocre, so I did not let it finish" Mediocre means average / middle of the pack. It sounds like its doing exactly what you would expect nothing more. Why would you stop it? Why would you need exceptional?
  - BoiledCabbage 20d ago
    > mediocre - of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre Clearly they were using the word to mean low quality. Why would you ask this odd question?
    - ipaddr 19d ago
      Core meaning: Barely adequate, average, or just acceptable. Mediocre means of only ordinary or moderate quality—neither very good nor very bad, and often slightly disappointing The quality is average but expectations of high quality are not met. He expected more but got what he asked for. We overuse top models because of this.
      - lukan 19d ago
        The claim was there is no difference between Opus and Fable but to me there is. Opus delivered mediocre results. Not garbage, but would have required me to do lot's of things myself. Fable did not needed my supervision with this task.

bpodgursky 20d ago

If Fable doesn't add additional value in your workplace, it means you aren't being ambitious enough in how you integrate agents into your workstream. Yes, it's probably comparable to 4.8 if you are just using it to write code and put up a couple pull requests. That's not where things are now.

bix6 20d ago
And where are things now?
nradov 20d ago
You shouldn't be down voted, AI native companies have already moved up to the next level beyond writing individual PRs.
- Tanjreeve 20d ago
  "AI Native" here meaning Companies where your token use isn't scrutinised/capped yet?
nozzlegear 20d ago
This is just "you're holding it wrong" with a little smooch of condescension. If only we plebeians could comprehend what magnificent works those who have ambitiously integrated agents into the workstream have wrought!
- bpodgursky 20d ago
  I mean it's very easy to comprehend and you don't need me for it. Just download claude code or codex and ask it to give suggestions about where to integrate agents into your workstream.
  - nozzlegear 20d ago
    To be perfectly clear: my comment has nothing to do with your workflow, but rather with the way you've condescendingly implied the person's work is trifling and inferior because they don't use tools the same way you do.
- plorkyeran 20d ago
  Sometimes you actually are holding it wrong. It's pretty reasonable to think that Fable isn't worth the massive increase in cost, but if you think it outright doesn't have any benefits over Opus 4.8 then your workflow is probably not making good use of the tools.
  - nozzlegear 20d ago
    > Sometimes you actually are holding it wrong. I couldn't imagine being so presumptuous as to know that my workflow fits all sizes, and all others are just holding it wrong – or worse, they're not doing real work. It would take a bigger ego on my part, or maybe less social awareness, to presume this. > but if you think it outright doesn't have any benefits over Opus 4.8 then your workflow is probably not making good use of the tools. I don't even use claude, I give exactly zero shits about fable or opus or bingus bongus.
drTobiasFunke 20d ago
By ambitious if you mean we are not like all the linkedin influencers with their “i one shotted an app this morning…” then no, we are not. Nobody is. I have been in software engineering for 18 years and 6 different companies including FANG and 99% of the people, on 99% of the days arnt writing new apps from scratch. Thats simply not how anything works. And what even are these ambitious companies and people one shotting and building with Fable? AI has been around for almost 3 years now. Tell me one app or software you use which has gotten significantly better and has amazing new useful features landing on a weekly basis? If anything, every single software product I use has gotten worse.

lukan 20d ago

No idea what you are missing and yes, Opus is quite solid, but Fable is clearly way better for me. I just did a direct comparison, big change in a quite complex codebase. Same prompt for Opus, same for Fable. Fable clearly won and delivered very good results, while Opus delivered mediocre, so I did not let it finish. I expected both to fail and was prepared to do lots of manual steering, but not necessary with Fable one shotting it, and all this with 35$ of credits for fable. I am still impressed. If I would have had to hire a human, it would have cost me thousands of dollar for the same task - and a way longer time. So maybe the valuations are overblown, but they clearly provide value for me.

ipaddr 20d ago
"Opus delivered mediocre, so I did not let it finish" Mediocre means average / middle of the pack. It sounds like its doing exactly what you would expect nothing more. Why would you stop it? Why would you need exceptional?
- BoiledCabbage 20d ago
  > mediocre - of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre Clearly they were using the word to mean low quality. Why would you ask this odd question?
  - ipaddr 19d ago
    Core meaning: Barely adequate, average, or just acceptable. Mediocre means of only ordinary or moderate quality—neither very good nor very bad, and often slightly disappointing The quality is average but expectations of high quality are not met. He expected more but got what he asked for. We overuse top models because of this.
    - lukan 19d ago
      The claim was there is no difference between Opus and Fable but to me there is. Opus delivered mediocre results. Not garbage, but would have required me to do lot's of things myself. Fable did not needed my supervision with this task.