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Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in? I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I ne

by seemaze 14d ago

Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in? I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I need is more screen time in my life.

wongarsu 14d ago
You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know. Unlike cars.
- ygjb 14d ago
  There are plans to build these networks at various stages. Putatively to enable connectivity, but in practice the tech creates a device to device mesh network that enables side channel communication over a secure mechanism that is not necessarily subject to use control.
- trinsic2 13d ago
  I think it would be less time consuming to build one yourself.
  - qlte 13d ago
    Less time consuming than just ... not connecting a new TV to WiFi? It's pretty straightforward to get dumb behavior out of a modern smart TV as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version.
    - hilbert42 13d ago
      "…as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version." Why wouldn't one be? Not that long ago 'dumb' TVs never even had firmware (and that was the situation throughout most of television history). Allowing a manufacturer to update TV firmware online is dangerous and foolhardy. (Same reasons why I never let any of my printers go anywhere near the internet—any driver software is always blocked by a firewall.)
    - trinsic2 13d ago
      Im not sure if you read up on the situation, but the current smart TV's surveillance functions are way beyond what anyone should have to deal with. They scan and connect to near Wifi devices to send data without consent There is communications being done through HDMI. I mean what is it going to take for people to realize that getting smart TV, for any reason, is really dumb.
      - nickthegreek 13d ago
        name a make a model that does this.
        trinsic2 13d ago
        Watch the GamersNexus video. Its all there.
        nickthegreek 12d ago
        No it isnt. they never once stated that WAS happening, just that it COULD happen. Feel free to name a make and model if you disagree.
- abeyer 13d ago
  > So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know Yeah, I suspect that it either isn't a big enough segment of the market to make the costs worth it, or they just haven't been caught. Given that it's pretty easy to add amazon sidewalk connectivity to devices with bluetooth radios (which most of these TVs have to support external wireless speakers), I'd be shocked if they hadn't at least experimented and estimated payoff on doing that.
  - deleted 13d ago
    [deleted]
- daemin 13d ago
  The problem is when a helpful friend or family member decides to connect the TV to the Internet for you, they have good intentions and think they are helping but have in fact screwed up your carefully considered plan. Same thing goes when someone agrees to all terms and conditions on a nag screen that pops up (as in the video only a subset of T&C were required to function but agree to all was the default behaviour), or when they go and apply that automatic update/upgrade that you didn't want on a device you own (i.e. from Windows 10 to Windows 11). There's too many dark patterns and bad behaviour from big corporations these days trying to wear you down and trick you into relinquishing your rights and letting them "get away with murder".
- Lammy 13d ago
  Or a projector, which is a way better experience anyway if you can stand having a curtained room.
- raron 10d ago
  Commercial screens are full of the same connectivity and anti-features that nobody (well maybe except if you are a hotel or similar) wants. Computer monitors doesn't exists about something like 32".

by seemaze 14d ago

Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in? I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I need is more screen time in my life.

wongarsu 14d ago

You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know. Unlike cars.

ygjb 14d ago
There are plans to build these networks at various stages. Putatively to enable connectivity, but in practice the tech creates a device to device mesh network that enables side channel communication over a secure mechanism that is not necessarily subject to use control.
trinsic2 13d ago
I think it would be less time consuming to build one yourself.
- qlte 13d ago
  Less time consuming than just ... not connecting a new TV to WiFi? It's pretty straightforward to get dumb behavior out of a modern smart TV as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version.
  - hilbert42 13d ago
    "…as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version." Why wouldn't one be? Not that long ago 'dumb' TVs never even had firmware (and that was the situation throughout most of television history). Allowing a manufacturer to update TV firmware online is dangerous and foolhardy. (Same reasons why I never let any of my printers go anywhere near the internet—any driver software is always blocked by a firewall.)
  - trinsic2 13d ago
    Im not sure if you read up on the situation, but the current smart TV's surveillance functions are way beyond what anyone should have to deal with. They scan and connect to near Wifi devices to send data without consent There is communications being done through HDMI. I mean what is it going to take for people to realize that getting smart TV, for any reason, is really dumb.
    - nickthegreek 13d ago
      name a make a model that does this.
      - trinsic2 13d ago
        Watch the GamersNexus video. Its all there.
        nickthegreek 12d ago
        No it isnt. they never once stated that WAS happening, just that it COULD happen. Feel free to name a make and model if you disagree.
abeyer 13d ago
> So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know Yeah, I suspect that it either isn't a big enough segment of the market to make the costs worth it, or they just haven't been caught. Given that it's pretty easy to add amazon sidewalk connectivity to devices with bluetooth radios (which most of these TVs have to support external wireless speakers), I'd be shocked if they hadn't at least experimented and estimated payoff on doing that.
- deleted 13d ago
  [deleted]
daemin 13d ago
The problem is when a helpful friend or family member decides to connect the TV to the Internet for you, they have good intentions and think they are helping but have in fact screwed up your carefully considered plan. Same thing goes when someone agrees to all terms and conditions on a nag screen that pops up (as in the video only a subset of T&C were required to function but agree to all was the default behaviour), or when they go and apply that automatic update/upgrade that you didn't want on a device you own (i.e. from Windows 10 to Windows 11). There's too many dark patterns and bad behaviour from big corporations these days trying to wear you down and trick you into relinquishing your rights and letting them "get away with murder".
Lammy 13d ago
Or a projector, which is a way better experience anyway if you can stand having a curtained room.
raron 10d ago
Commercial screens are full of the same connectivity and anti-features that nobody (well maybe except if you are a hotel or similar) wants. Computer monitors doesn't exists about something like 32".