4 ms·

1M+ German households have hung solar panels off their balcony railings

72 points by nixass 22d ago

karim79 22d ago
"Balkonkraftwerk" Hell yes I'm down for this.
metalman 22d ago
Pakistan has gone far far beyond this level of indivual solar instals for personal use, somewhere over 3 gigawatts, and in the absence of any regualatory anything, but still somehow helping to stabilise the grid, it's now irevocably entrenched and expanding very quickly. Hopefully the next phase will see a major switch to EV's and something can begin to change in what is some of the worst airpolution on the planet, as emmisions are regualated the same as PV and batteries, ie:with very occasional performative hand wringing.
zhivota 22d ago
Philippines is seeing an incredible explosion in solar power, but none of this kind of thing. Instead it's driven by a gray market - equipment is imported, mostly without paying proper duties and taxes, installers are unlicensed, installs are not reported and don't apply for net metering, so the incentive is to maximize your battery capacity as a result. The lack of state capacity here to enforce rules has allowed solar to flourish.
- dzhiurgis 21d ago
  My guess Phillipines has much less seasonal variability for solar, which makes it feasible to live almost off grid? Balcony solar is mostly a token. Maybe only enough to run your electronics. I'm sure Germans are frivolous with their power use (subsidized by their gas, petrol and heating oil use) so percentage wise it's not super trivial.
  - zhivota 21d ago
    There is a good amount of variability in weather, there is a rainy season, but solar irradiance is mostly the same and strong here overall. So a big array and a big battery can see you through everything but the worst string of rainy days, and for that you can get a diesel generator if you really need it, or just stay on grid.
  - halfdan 21d ago
    German here. I have four panels that are plugged into a 5.12kWh battery. Battery is controlled by a small 3-phase meter and automatically feeds power in when usage is there. From May to early September the battery and panels were enough to cover almost all power usage in my household.
    - dzhiurgis 21d ago
      That's insanely little power use. Small flat and single person I guess? I have 24 imperfectly placed panels and live around Auckland, New Zealand, modest house, 5kWH battery too. They theoretically provide well over my needs in summer, but due to how pricing works it - I still pay a bit even in peak of the summer. Everything is electric in my house with toys like EV and heated pool.
      - KellyCriterion 21d ago
        > toys like EV and heated pool. Well, thats the explanation: A German household usually does not have a pool :-D
        dzhiurgis 21d ago
        300kwh per month, not exactly enormous consumer. EV uses more.
        tacomagick 21d ago
        Heating consumes a lot, because of this at least in some of Europe we still use natural gas over electricity. This allows your only energy spending to basically become a television and a fridge, sometimes your washing machine and dishwasher.
rpaik 22d ago
Balcony panels are awaiting governor's signature in California: https://www.kqed.org/science/2001842/california-lawmakers-greenlight-solar-panels-you-can-plug-into-the-wall https://www.kqed.org/science/2001842/california-lawmakers-gr... (it looks like NY & NJ are in the same boat)
- fred_is_fred 21d ago
  legal in both Utah and Colorado - which have ample sunshine!
- tehlike 21d ago
  People similarly started fence mounting solar panels
- ProllyInfamous 21d ago
  I briefly sub-contracted for a bayarea startup (which was funded by an EU subsidiary), where we covertly installed several "test demonstrations" throughout the bay area (just a few dozen, each ~500W) – this was not legal when performed ~2010-2011~, done "for research," but was installed by licensed electricians (just not permitted, as PG&E did not allow this). Surprisingly, several are still known-to-be operating; aerial mapping confirms that many more are at least still physically-present. This US subsidiary "folded" shortly after the installations went online. ---- The coolest installation was using PG&E's "time-of-day" utility rates, along with the homeowner's medical exemption (which allows you more kWHs before being charged higher rates), to lower a small medical marijuana grow from $2k/month to ~$500/month (LEDs growlamps barely existed, back then): •) During the daytime, the growrooms would be "OFF" [PGE charging 45¢/kWH], and the microsolar would literally offset all the auxilary needs of the grow&house •) During winter nights, PG&E would literally pay you to burn excess grid capacity [@-3¢/kWH], so all grow rooms would be running @MAX. All year, nights were 5X+ cheaper to consume electricity ---- Since California is so-well-connected to its neighboring utilities, its primary daytime-electric generator (grid solar) can instantaneously sell to the PNW grid [and does]; this allows them to similarly-reduce their own fuel expenditures (albeit at the much-larger scale of national grids). <https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electric_overview/US48/US48 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electr...> tl;dr: feel bad for the dumb US state which chooses to intentionally self-isolate (i.e. Texas' ERCOT), and thus cannot persevere through predictable 10-year winterstorms [modern news: Texas' current attempt to privatize Austin Energy™, a public coop that provides flat-rate power, inexpensively, protecting Central Texans from surprise winter heating bills]
casper14 21d ago
Solar is good, but come on Germany, would have been nice to still have some of these nuclear powers plants eh.
- triceratops 21d ago
  This horse is deader than disco - which funnily has had a revival this decade. Time to stop beating it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46292341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46292341 - Triceratops' law remains the most accurate original observation I've made in my life (sad, I know). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49163327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49163327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47966629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47966629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47328430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47328430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47324023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47324023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49216191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49216191
thijson 21d ago
Plug in solar is nice because you don't have to hire an electrician, just plug into an outlet.
jocelyner 21d ago
[dead]
thelastgallon 21d ago
Plug-Ins allow renters to participate in the energy ecosystem. Also, people who live in apartments, not independent homes. This is probably more than two-thirds of the people on the planet. Plug-ins increase energy literary. People will learn to love their energy (IKEA effect). Germans and other European countries buying them will create demand, and products will become cheaper and incredibly reliable. There are zero labor costs, no need of electricians or permits. Instant energy/energystorage on tap. Billions of poor people will just buy plug-in products or panels (like Pakistan), and the creative explosion of ideas of a billion people will create many interesting products for a range of uses.
- KellyCriterion 21d ago
  Small correction: They are actually incredible reliable by today!:-)
thelastgallon 21d ago
I just realized the biggest benefit is plug-in battery. A plug-in battery enables anyone to shift demand, taking advantage of cheap/free energy. You can use a slightly intelligent app to decide whether to consume it yourself later, or sell it back to the grid. Australia has 3 hour free electricity, thats probably enough for some uses. Plug-in solar may or may not be possible, but anyone can use a plug-in battery. If there are structures to support balcony solar or off grid panels in your backyard, then you can produce for free and charge your batteries. The Hottest New Trade Is Your Own Electricity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK76jIsmiSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK76jIsmiSw Australia's free electricity: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3NTlKEd5IIY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3NTlKEd5IIY
- anakaine 21d ago
  Aussie here - exported 650+ kW to the grid last month from our solar, and consumed the remainder that was generated. Overnight covered entirely by battery.
- futevolei 20d ago
  Plug in batteries where the battery itself is cheap af (like Australia) and the ability to charge it for free from the grid exists (like Australia) are a no brainer. When batteries are expensive and grid electricity is not free (the entire US) then it doesn’t really pencil out and requires the plug in solar but that has to be cheap too. Think used panels off Facebook marketplace type cheap. Like I don’t care about offsetting a portion of my energy for free with a 7-10 year payback. Plug in systems should pay for themselves in less than 2 years IMO.

72 points by nixass 22d ago

"Balkonkraftwerk" Hell yes I'm down for this.

Pakistan has gone far far beyond this level of indivual solar instals for personal use, somewhere over 3 gigawatts, and in the absence of any regualatory anything, but still somehow helping to stabilise the grid, it's now irevocably entrenched and expanding very quickly. Hopefully the next phase will see a major switch to EV's and something can begin to change in what is some of the worst airpolution on the planet, as emmisions are regualated the same as PV and batteries, ie:with very occasional performative hand wringing.

zhivota 22d ago

Philippines is seeing an incredible explosion in solar power, but none of this kind of thing. Instead it's driven by a gray market - equipment is imported, mostly without paying proper duties and taxes, installers are unlicensed, installs are not reported and don't apply for net metering, so the incentive is to maximize your battery capacity as a result. The lack of state capacity here to enforce rules has allowed solar to flourish.

dzhiurgis 21d ago
My guess Phillipines has much less seasonal variability for solar, which makes it feasible to live almost off grid? Balcony solar is mostly a token. Maybe only enough to run your electronics. I'm sure Germans are frivolous with their power use (subsidized by their gas, petrol and heating oil use) so percentage wise it's not super trivial.
- zhivota 21d ago
  There is a good amount of variability in weather, there is a rainy season, but solar irradiance is mostly the same and strong here overall. So a big array and a big battery can see you through everything but the worst string of rainy days, and for that you can get a diesel generator if you really need it, or just stay on grid.
- halfdan 21d ago
  German here. I have four panels that are plugged into a 5.12kWh battery. Battery is controlled by a small 3-phase meter and automatically feeds power in when usage is there. From May to early September the battery and panels were enough to cover almost all power usage in my household.
  - dzhiurgis 21d ago
    That's insanely little power use. Small flat and single person I guess? I have 24 imperfectly placed panels and live around Auckland, New Zealand, modest house, 5kWH battery too. They theoretically provide well over my needs in summer, but due to how pricing works it - I still pay a bit even in peak of the summer. Everything is electric in my house with toys like EV and heated pool.
    - KellyCriterion 21d ago
      > toys like EV and heated pool. Well, thats the explanation: A German household usually does not have a pool :-D
      - dzhiurgis 21d ago
        300kwh per month, not exactly enormous consumer. EV uses more.
        tacomagick 21d ago
        Heating consumes a lot, because of this at least in some of Europe we still use natural gas over electricity. This allows your only energy spending to basically become a television and a fridge, sometimes your washing machine and dishwasher.

rpaik 22d ago

Balcony panels are awaiting governor's signature in California: https://www.kqed.org/science/2001842/california-lawmakers-greenlight-solar-panels-you-can-plug-into-the-wall https://www.kqed.org/science/2001842/california-lawmakers-gr... (it looks like NY & NJ are in the same boat)

fred_is_fred 21d ago
legal in both Utah and Colorado - which have ample sunshine!
tehlike 21d ago
People similarly started fence mounting solar panels
ProllyInfamous 21d ago
I briefly sub-contracted for a bayarea startup (which was funded by an EU subsidiary), where we covertly installed several "test demonstrations" throughout the bay area (just a few dozen, each ~500W) – this was not legal when performed ~2010-2011~, done "for research," but was installed by licensed electricians (just not permitted, as PG&E did not allow this). Surprisingly, several are still known-to-be operating; aerial mapping confirms that many more are at least still physically-present. This US subsidiary "folded" shortly after the installations went online. ---- The coolest installation was using PG&E's "time-of-day" utility rates, along with the homeowner's medical exemption (which allows you more kWHs before being charged higher rates), to lower a small medical marijuana grow from $2k/month to ~$500/month (LEDs growlamps barely existed, back then): •) During the daytime, the growrooms would be "OFF" [PGE charging 45¢/kWH], and the microsolar would literally offset all the auxilary needs of the grow&house •) During winter nights, PG&E would literally pay you to burn excess grid capacity [@-3¢/kWH], so all grow rooms would be running @MAX. All year, nights were 5X+ cheaper to consume electricity ---- Since California is so-well-connected to its neighboring utilities, its primary daytime-electric generator (grid solar) can instantaneously sell to the PNW grid [and does]; this allows them to similarly-reduce their own fuel expenditures (albeit at the much-larger scale of national grids). <https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electric_overview/US48/US48 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electr...> tl;dr: feel bad for the dumb US state which chooses to intentionally self-isolate (i.e. Texas' ERCOT), and thus cannot persevere through predictable 10-year winterstorms [modern news: Texas' current attempt to privatize Austin Energy™, a public coop that provides flat-rate power, inexpensively, protecting Central Texans from surprise winter heating bills]

casper14 21d ago

Solar is good, but come on Germany, would have been nice to still have some of these nuclear powers plants eh.

triceratops 21d ago
This horse is deader than disco - which funnily has had a revival this decade. Time to stop beating it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46292341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46292341 - Triceratops' law remains the most accurate original observation I've made in my life (sad, I know). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49163327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49163327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47966629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47966629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47328430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47328430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47324023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47324023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49216191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49216191

thijson 21d ago

Plug in solar is nice because you don't have to hire an electrician, just plug into an outlet.

jocelyner 21d ago

[dead]

thelastgallon 21d ago

Plug-Ins allow renters to participate in the energy ecosystem. Also, people who live in apartments, not independent homes. This is probably more than two-thirds of the people on the planet. Plug-ins increase energy literary. People will learn to love their energy (IKEA effect). Germans and other European countries buying them will create demand, and products will become cheaper and incredibly reliable. There are zero labor costs, no need of electricians or permits. Instant energy/energystorage on tap. Billions of poor people will just buy plug-in products or panels (like Pakistan), and the creative explosion of ideas of a billion people will create many interesting products for a range of uses.

KellyCriterion 21d ago
Small correction: They are actually incredible reliable by today!:-)

thelastgallon 21d ago

I just realized the biggest benefit is plug-in battery. A plug-in battery enables anyone to shift demand, taking advantage of cheap/free energy. You can use a slightly intelligent app to decide whether to consume it yourself later, or sell it back to the grid. Australia has 3 hour free electricity, thats probably enough for some uses. Plug-in solar may or may not be possible, but anyone can use a plug-in battery. If there are structures to support balcony solar or off grid panels in your backyard, then you can produce for free and charge your batteries. The Hottest New Trade Is Your Own Electricity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK76jIsmiSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK76jIsmiSw Australia's free electricity: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3NTlKEd5IIY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3NTlKEd5IIY

anakaine 21d ago
Aussie here - exported 650+ kW to the grid last month from our solar, and consumed the remainder that was generated. Overnight covered entirely by battery.
futevolei 20d ago
Plug in batteries where the battery itself is cheap af (like Australia) and the ability to charge it for free from the grid exists (like Australia) are a no brainer. When batteries are expensive and grid electricity is not free (the entire US) then it doesn’t really pencil out and requires the plug in solar but that has to be cheap too. Think used panels off Facebook marketplace type cheap. Like I don’t care about offsetting a portion of my energy for free with a 7-10 year payback. Plug in systems should pay for themselves in less than 2 years IMO.