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It's also about where you go with your struggles. Do you go home and talk to your spouse? Do you go to church and talk with your pastor? Do you go to your ther

It's also about where you go with your struggles. Do you go home and talk to your spouse? Do you go to church and talk with your pastor? Do you go to your therapist or to the local bar? > Comfort with mental health care has become another facet of political sorting in the U.S. I'm skeptical. Bars and churches and friends are way cheaper and more accessible in red states. It's hard enough to get poorer, less educated men comfortable going to the doctor, let alone a therapist.

embedding-shape 24d ago
> Bars and churches and friends are way cheaper and more accessible in red states. Just as a curiosity, as I don't have any experience of red states myself, how easy would it be for a closet homosexual to come out and get support from their bar, churches and friends in a red state, typically?
- eastbound 24d ago
  [flagged]
  - toomuchtodo 24d ago
    I empathize with the straight white Christian as a fellow human, and wish them support (I donate to organizations that provide crisis support, but this does not scale, we need more scale [community building via robust government support imho]), but also recognize that religious belief is rapidly declining in the US [1], ~100k churches are anticipated to close over the next 5-10 years [2], and so while this support should be provided to the religious folks who need it, it is not a growing or long term support need [3] (imho, specifically in the context of a religious leader providing said support) from a systems thinking perspective. Citations below for this area of the knowledge graph. TLDR This is a human support capacity and capability issue. We should fix it, to the best of our ability, imho. [1] Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 - November 2025 (1 comment) [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 (citations) [3] When Are Half Your Members Going to be Dead? - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-members-going https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-mem... - January 29th, 2026 > The means are denoted in red, and you can see that most of the numbers are at least 55 years old. For instance, the average adult member of an Episcopal church is 61 years old. For Southern Baptists, it’s 58. The Assemblies of God are doing a bit better on this metric at 54. But look at the modal age for a lot of these groups—this is probably the most important metric when it comes to understanding the future of American Protestant Christianity. For many, the modal age is significantly higher than the mean. In a bunch of mainline Protestant denominations, it’s between 67 and 69 years old. For the Assemblies of God, the modal age is 69, which is 15 years older than the mean. What does this mean? Well, the mean can be pulled down by a decent chunk of younger folks. If you have a good core of 30-year-olds, they can counterbalance those 60-year-olds in that calculation. That’s not true for the mode. It gives you a much better sense of when “the tipping point” is going to come. [4] The Generational Collapse of American Religion - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-collapse-of-american https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-colla... - January 19th, 2026 ("So why do overall levels of attendance decline? Well, because each successive birth cohort is less religiously active than the previous one. That’s the main driver of religious decline—it’s a decay function across cohorts.") As an atheist, this topic is one of many that stays on my mind and keeps me awake sometimes. How A Decline In Churchgoing Led To A Rise In ‘Deaths Of Despair’ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 - December 2025 (2 comments) Find Your People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 - May 2025 (283 comments)
    - gameman144 24d ago
      I don't think this is an unreasonable view, but it does seem to me that the declining Christianity rates aren't super useful on their own for determining actions from a systems thinking perspective. Maybe rates are declining because the religion is legitimately not appealing, in which case your action is right. An opponent would say that it's declining because it's culturally discouraged (since even religious pockets are exposed to the national zeitgeist), in which case ignoring it would be the exact opposite of what we'd want to do.
      - toomuchtodo 24d ago
        I have thoughts on why religion is declining, and I don't believe it's because it's culturally discouraged. Young people want community, but they do not want to be told what to do by a hierarchy and spiritual leaders simply because "they say so" and related historical texts. The power and control through belief systems and hierarchy inherent to religion are breaking down. Is it because of social media [think increased velocity of cultural Overton Window and societal norm transition]? Younger people are more empowered and can support themselves while avoiding these institutions? Brain structure changing as it relates to social needs, fear, and tribalism? Hard to say yet, but I am excited to understand over time as a scholar. For comparison, Japan legislated that religious indoctrination and withholding education or healthcare from your children due to religious beliefs should be classified as child abuse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 (citations) What it's like to close a Church with Ryan Burge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g - July 26th, 2024 Forced participation in religious activities to be classified as child abuse - https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20221227-79777/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government... - December 27th, 2022 Government guidelines define child abuse from religious parents - https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 - December 22nd, 2022
      - triceratops 23d ago
        > it's declining because it's culturally discouraged By whom?
  - fwip 24d ago
    A sitcom making fun of a situation doesn't mean it's a real problem.
  - wat10000 24d ago
    Spare me the oppression fantasy. The fricken’ governor is a straight white Christian!
    - Screaming_O 23d ago
      Come on, Newsom is as Christian as Bill Clinton was faithful.
      - watwut 23d ago
        They did not said "good person" nor "saint" nor "republicans would agree with him". They said "christian". And he is one.
      - wat10000 23d ago
        How's that? I don't know that much about the guy, but it looks like he was raised in the faith, never gave it up, and talks about how his faith influences and guides him in public life. Seems pretty Christian to me. We could debate about appearance versus true belief, but in the context of "try coming out as a straight white Christian in California" only the appearance actually matters.
  - triceratops 24d ago
    That show is like 10 years old now.
- randusername 24d ago
  Much lower odds of default support on average, but not zero, and the odds are not uniform throughout all the red states or any given one. For example, my small town in a red state was not accepting of homosexuality in general, but my church was tolerant, and my church youth group was affirming and supportive.
groundzeros2015 24d ago
The enlightened blue state men go to the pay-to-care secular priest instead? Also missing from this perspective. What do people who are not from western countries do?
- toomuchtodo 24d ago
  Community, in whatever form that is. And community has broken down in the US, and has been for decades. It is a social system, lumbering towards failure (as many systems are). Pew Research: Americans are less likely than others around the world to feel close to people in their country or community - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/08/americans-are-less-likely-than-others-around-the-world-to-feel-close-to-people-in-their-country-or-community/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/08/americans... - May 8th, 2024 > Differences by religion also emerge. Religiously unaffiliated Americans are much less likely than those who are religiously affiliated to feel connected to others in their local community (43% vs. 60%). This pattern aligns with previous research on interpersonal connectedness and philanthropy among religious people. Religious people tend to be more likely than nonreligious people to volunteer and give to charity – though they prefer these activities benefit others within their own religious groups. [My note: Religion->Shared belief tribalism, observation, not intended to be derogatory] Pew Research: Connectedness to community, country and the world - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/12/06/connectedness-to-community-country-and-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/12/06/connectedness-... - December 6th, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone > Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community is a 2000 nonfiction book by Robert D. Putnam. It was developed from his 1995 essay entitled "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital" in the Journal of Democracy. Putnam surveys the decline of social capital in the United States since 1950. He has described the reduction in all the forms of in-person social intercourse upon which Americans used to found, educate, and enrich the fabric of their social lives. He argues that this undermines the active civic engagement which a strong democracy requires from its citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital
watwut 24d ago
Friend, priest, acquittance at the bar and mental health professional are 4 different roles. Your therapist is not your friend, will refuse to play that role. Your therapist is also not your religious leader and wont speak into those considerations. And conversely, neither priest nor friend will be able to deal with actual mental health issue you have.
- someguyiguess 24d ago
  Therapists aren’t great at it either.
  - baselined 23d ago
    It depends heavily on the therapeutic relationship/bond. As a therapist, I focus more on building rapport and establishing connection before diving into the mental health aspects. Without trust/rapport, nothing will move forward in treatment. To generalize is not the best way to put things forward. https://doi.org/10.1002/jclp.23519 https://doi.org/10.1002/jclp.23519
  - cindyllm 23d ago
    [dead]
dismalaf 24d ago
> less educated men comfortable going to the doctor, let alone a therapist. Is it that or is it the cost and availability?
- Henchman21 23d ago
  Coupled with a system that tells them they’re worthless so they pour economic effort that might include some self care onto their wives and children?
pizzafeelsright 23d ago
Helping people is quite difficult. What are your struggles? (single item or a long list) Talk to one of these: Close Friends Spouse/Partner Immediate Family Member Mental Health Therapist A Co-Worker Neighbor Religious/Spiritual Leader "I can't pay my mortgage because I lost my job" That's a real problem. Solution: Who will pay that mortgage? For how long? My church, friends, possibly in-laws would pay my mortgage for about 3-6 months but after that the help runs out because the REAL problem is those 3-6 months of not looking hard enough, not taking any job, not down sizing, not moving into someone's garage, not spending beyond the budget.

embedding-shape 24d ago

> Bars and churches and friends are way cheaper and more accessible in red states. Just as a curiosity, as I don't have any experience of red states myself, how easy would it be for a closet homosexual to come out and get support from their bar, churches and friends in a red state, typically?

eastbound 24d ago
[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 24d ago
  I empathize with the straight white Christian as a fellow human, and wish them support (I donate to organizations that provide crisis support, but this does not scale, we need more scale [community building via robust government support imho]), but also recognize that religious belief is rapidly declining in the US [1], ~100k churches are anticipated to close over the next 5-10 years [2], and so while this support should be provided to the religious folks who need it, it is not a growing or long term support need [3] (imho, specifically in the context of a religious leader providing said support) from a systems thinking perspective. Citations below for this area of the knowledge graph. TLDR This is a human support capacity and capability issue. We should fix it, to the best of our ability, imho. [1] Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 - November 2025 (1 comment) [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 (citations) [3] When Are Half Your Members Going to be Dead? - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-members-going https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-mem... - January 29th, 2026 > The means are denoted in red, and you can see that most of the numbers are at least 55 years old. For instance, the average adult member of an Episcopal church is 61 years old. For Southern Baptists, it’s 58. The Assemblies of God are doing a bit better on this metric at 54. But look at the modal age for a lot of these groups—this is probably the most important metric when it comes to understanding the future of American Protestant Christianity. For many, the modal age is significantly higher than the mean. In a bunch of mainline Protestant denominations, it’s between 67 and 69 years old. For the Assemblies of God, the modal age is 69, which is 15 years older than the mean. What does this mean? Well, the mean can be pulled down by a decent chunk of younger folks. If you have a good core of 30-year-olds, they can counterbalance those 60-year-olds in that calculation. That’s not true for the mode. It gives you a much better sense of when “the tipping point” is going to come. [4] The Generational Collapse of American Religion - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-collapse-of-american https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-colla... - January 19th, 2026 ("So why do overall levels of attendance decline? Well, because each successive birth cohort is less religiously active than the previous one. That’s the main driver of religious decline—it’s a decay function across cohorts.") As an atheist, this topic is one of many that stays on my mind and keeps me awake sometimes. How A Decline In Churchgoing Led To A Rise In ‘Deaths Of Despair’ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 - December 2025 (2 comments) Find Your People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 - May 2025 (283 comments)
  - gameman144 24d ago
    I don't think this is an unreasonable view, but it does seem to me that the declining Christianity rates aren't super useful on their own for determining actions from a systems thinking perspective. Maybe rates are declining because the religion is legitimately not appealing, in which case your action is right. An opponent would say that it's declining because it's culturally discouraged (since even religious pockets are exposed to the national zeitgeist), in which case ignoring it would be the exact opposite of what we'd want to do.
    - toomuchtodo 24d ago
      I have thoughts on why religion is declining, and I don't believe it's because it's culturally discouraged. Young people want community, but they do not want to be told what to do by a hierarchy and spiritual leaders simply because "they say so" and related historical texts. The power and control through belief systems and hierarchy inherent to religion are breaking down. Is it because of social media [think increased velocity of cultural Overton Window and societal norm transition]? Younger people are more empowered and can support themselves while avoiding these institutions? Brain structure changing as it relates to social needs, fear, and tribalism? Hard to say yet, but I am excited to understand over time as a scholar. For comparison, Japan legislated that religious indoctrination and withholding education or healthcare from your children due to religious beliefs should be classified as child abuse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 (citations) What it's like to close a Church with Ryan Burge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g - July 26th, 2024 Forced participation in religious activities to be classified as child abuse - https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20221227-79777/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government... - December 27th, 2022 Government guidelines define child abuse from religious parents - https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 - December 22nd, 2022
    - triceratops 23d ago
      > it's declining because it's culturally discouraged By whom?
- fwip 24d ago
  A sitcom making fun of a situation doesn't mean it's a real problem.
- wat10000 24d ago
  Spare me the oppression fantasy. The fricken’ governor is a straight white Christian!
  - Screaming_O 23d ago
    Come on, Newsom is as Christian as Bill Clinton was faithful.
    - watwut 23d ago
      They did not said "good person" nor "saint" nor "republicans would agree with him". They said "christian". And he is one.
    - wat10000 23d ago
      How's that? I don't know that much about the guy, but it looks like he was raised in the faith, never gave it up, and talks about how his faith influences and guides him in public life. Seems pretty Christian to me. We could debate about appearance versus true belief, but in the context of "try coming out as a straight white Christian in California" only the appearance actually matters.
- triceratops 24d ago
  That show is like 10 years old now.
randusername 24d ago
Much lower odds of default support on average, but not zero, and the odds are not uniform throughout all the red states or any given one. For example, my small town in a red state was not accepting of homosexuality in general, but my church was tolerant, and my church youth group was affirming and supportive.

groundzeros2015 24d ago

The enlightened blue state men go to the pay-to-care secular priest instead? Also missing from this perspective. What do people who are not from western countries do?

toomuchtodo 24d ago
Community, in whatever form that is. And community has broken down in the US, and has been for decades. It is a social system, lumbering towards failure (as many systems are). Pew Research: Americans are less likely than others around the world to feel close to people in their country or community - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/08/americans-are-less-likely-than-others-around-the-world-to-feel-close-to-people-in-their-country-or-community/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/08/americans... - May 8th, 2024 > Differences by religion also emerge. Religiously unaffiliated Americans are much less likely than those who are religiously affiliated to feel connected to others in their local community (43% vs. 60%). This pattern aligns with previous research on interpersonal connectedness and philanthropy among religious people. Religious people tend to be more likely than nonreligious people to volunteer and give to charity – though they prefer these activities benefit others within their own religious groups. [My note: Religion->Shared belief tribalism, observation, not intended to be derogatory] Pew Research: Connectedness to community, country and the world - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/12/06/connectedness-to-community-country-and-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/12/06/connectedness-... - December 6th, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone > Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community is a 2000 nonfiction book by Robert D. Putnam. It was developed from his 1995 essay entitled "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital" in the Journal of Democracy. Putnam surveys the decline of social capital in the United States since 1950. He has described the reduction in all the forms of in-person social intercourse upon which Americans used to found, educate, and enrich the fabric of their social lives. He argues that this undermines the active civic engagement which a strong democracy requires from its citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital

watwut 24d ago

Friend, priest, acquittance at the bar and mental health professional are 4 different roles. Your therapist is not your friend, will refuse to play that role. Your therapist is also not your religious leader and wont speak into those considerations. And conversely, neither priest nor friend will be able to deal with actual mental health issue you have.

someguyiguess 24d ago
Therapists aren’t great at it either.
- baselined 23d ago
  It depends heavily on the therapeutic relationship/bond. As a therapist, I focus more on building rapport and establishing connection before diving into the mental health aspects. Without trust/rapport, nothing will move forward in treatment. To generalize is not the best way to put things forward. https://doi.org/10.1002/jclp.23519 https://doi.org/10.1002/jclp.23519
- cindyllm 23d ago
  [dead]

dismalaf 24d ago

> less educated men comfortable going to the doctor, let alone a therapist. Is it that or is it the cost and availability?

Henchman21 23d ago
Coupled with a system that tells them they’re worthless so they pour economic effort that might include some self care onto their wives and children?

pizzafeelsright 23d ago

Helping people is quite difficult. What are your struggles? (single item or a long list) Talk to one of these: Close Friends Spouse/Partner Immediate Family Member Mental Health Therapist A Co-Worker Neighbor Religious/Spiritual Leader "I can't pay my mortgage because I lost my job" That's a real problem. Solution: Who will pay that mortgage? For how long? My church, friends, possibly in-laws would pay my mortgage for about 3-6 months but after that the help runs out because the REAL problem is those 3-6 months of not looking hard enough, not taking any job, not down sizing, not moving into someone's garage, not spending beyond the budget.