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DHS 'Predictive Policing' Unit Is Analyzing Americans' Financial Habits
- Havoc 25d agoOne more reason the bail on the Visa/MC network asap
- AnimalMuppet 25d agoTo what? Straight cash? Or do you have an alternate network?
- asdff 25d agoCash is still king. You have to figure all potential networks are backdoored by intelligence. They have things they could do with cash too but its a lot more real work no one has the budget to scale out compared to what you can do at scale in the digital space, thanks to the fact that it is a fungible physical entity already set loose on all corners of the earth.
- Havoc 25d agoNothing global yet, but europe's regional wero network is making progress. Russia, China, India, Brazil etc all have national ones too. It's late and slow but everyone is realizing that it's a good idea to move away from the US
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- buellerbueller 25d ago[flagged]
- tiahura 25d agoFeds send out bulletin to local cops - BOTL suspected drug dealer. Fed’s suspect b/c of suspicious financial transactions. Seems reasonable and not newsworthy.
- deleted 25d ago[deleted]
- buellerbueller 25d agoAnd unconstitutional!
- siliconc0w 25d agoI think the problem is the parallel construction and lack of warrant
- toomuchtodo 25d agoThis is unconstitutional (fourth amendment) parallel construction. Combined with a corporate surveillance state panopticon, this is "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://www.nacdl.org/Media/Parallel-Construction-Discover-Govt-Evidenc-Source https://www.nacdl.org/Media/Parallel-Construction-Discover-G... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_the_man_and_I_will_give_you_the_case_against_him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_the_man_and_I_will_giv...
- iAMkenough 25d agoWho gets to review financial transactions (without a search warrant) and determine them as suspicious and actionable? Every time your bank flags a transaction, a police officer shows up at your door? Seems like there's no way to administer this warrantless surveillance without violating the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 25d agoThe practice of reporting? They optimize for the least costly words for the most clicks. It's more about what's possible than what is reasonable.
- buellerbueller 25d agoThe practice of unconstitutional parallel construction in law enforcement.
- boothby 25d ago> Edit: YESSSS -4 points; those are rookie numbers! Help me pump them up, HN technofascists! Prove my point for me! Whilst talking about the downvotes is uninteresting I will give in to the urge to observe that -4 is the lowest a comment can go. But sneering at the community is also against the guidelines, so a comment like this will attract flags by people who actually agree with you.
- buellerbueller 25d agoI am sneering at only the technofascists in the community, who deserve the derision of those who are anti fascist within the community, or really anyone who is saddened by the way the technofascists are sullying the name of the tech community. But good to know that -4 is rock bottom. If a community prevents you from sneering at fascism, that community is a problem.
- toomuchtodo 25d agoDon't bother, it isn't an effective use of time. Just go organize and vote, that moves the needle, nothing here does. Midterms are coming. This place is just a unique coffee shop. Participate in it for what it is.
- buellerbueller 25d agoWhen my votes are between the democrat who supports Israeli fascism or the republican who supports American fascism, it doesn't really feel like voting matters.
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- someothherguyy 25d ago> Putting one of those participant’s phone numbers into WhatsApp reveals a profile picture of a law enforcement patch. A pawn with wings sits in the center, surrounded by lightning bolts. The patch reads, “Laredo Sector Tech Ops PITT,” indicating there is also a Predictive Intelligence Targeting Team in the Laredo Sector. https://www.aviatorgear.com/p-52057-laredo-sector-tech-ops-pitt-ocp-patch.aspx https://www.aviatorgear.com/p-52057-laredo-sector-tech-ops-p...
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- polskibus 25d agoMinority Report anyone?
- buellerbueller 25d agounquestionably, which is weird, because you asked a question!
- cucumber3732842 25d agoI remember back in ye olde dark ages when "big data" was the hot buzzword people of a certain bent couldn't get enough of this kind of stuff. Everyone was jacking off nonstop to the idea that we could just hoover up everyone's data ad then "efficiently" or "proactively" dispatch enforcement resources. People talked all sorts of big talk about stuff like cross referencing people's Home Depot spend with permit requirements, identifying small businesses that don't have healthy enough financials to be fully compliant, cross referencing invoices and delivery receipts to identify overloaded trucks, and generally finding all sorts of ways to fine the crap out of people for the pettiest of petty deviance. They considered this a noble goal. Everyone's head was too far up their asses to look at the magic crystal ball called "history" and realize that such systems and tactics would be used to go after <checks notes> weed dealers and brown people. Be careful what you wish for I guess.
- antonvs 25d agoThe people you're talking about probably still consider that a noble goal, though. In fact some of the people like that are CEOs of tech companies.
- lbrito 25d agoThis comes straight out of Shoshana Zuboff's Surveillance Capitalism book. If you haven't: read it.
- sfdlkj3jk342a 25d agoAnd that's why need to keep using cash and non-KYC'd crypto.
- charlieyu1 25d agoKYC should not be legal to begin with.
- sofixa 25d agoKYC is necessary because you do not want for money laundering to be easy. Nor sanctions avoiding, nor terrorist sponsoring.
- zmgsabst 25d agoIn practice, KYC does little to stop any of that — but does do a lot to enable mass surveillance and oppression.
- HighGoldstein 25d ago> In practice, KYC does little to stop any of that Source? The fact that it's not infallible doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
- zmgsabst 25d agoThey route through all kinds of intermediaries that handle the banking by proxy — eg, as we saw in the Panama Papers and similar leaks. Reporting $600 in CashApp isn’t about stopping cartels, terrorists, etc; it’s about harassing sex workers and street dealers, profiling side businesses, etc.
- miohtama 25d agoHere is a good book on the topic of ineffectiveness of anti-money laundering: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DVLLL1X3?lv=shuf&channelId=500&p... Podcast if you do not want to buy the book: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-why-money-launderers-love-100-bills-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-09-08/odd-lots-wh...
- carpe171 25d agopalantir?
- atian 25d agoit's called malfeasance
- scarecrowbob 25d agoI understand that folks here think that the general anti-AI sentiments that can be found in some of US culture are often misguided. It's likely projection on my part but I have a deep suspicion that people understand that mass surveillance by the state is the main use case for all these LLMs, camera systems, and increasing large data centers. That certainly is my own worry, at least.
- throwway120385 25d agoThere's a self-serving aspect of Libertarianism where we dismantle the government so we can build our own government out of corporations with zero accountability to any of the people they govern. A kind of modern feudalism. And a lot of people in this camp envision themselves the count or duke or king or whatever in this feudalism, when in reality we'll likely all end up renting everything we own from the 6 people who own all the companies in the world. There seems to be a motte and bailey where the motte is "oh we should just remove all the governmental controls and let private enterprise flourish!" and then the bailey is "don't you see how little freedom you have from government" when it's made apparent what private enterprise has done in the modern world.
- krupan 25d agoYou seem to be describing our current corrupt democracy that produces crony capitalism that gives favors to big businesses and enables the business owners to become one of the 6 people that own everything. A major point of libertarianism is to tear down the government structure that enables that crony capitalism and restores real competition in the market.
- FireBeyond 25d agoWhat of observed human history gives you any hope that such a thing will happen? All of these systems function well ... "in theory". Even the ones you may not agree with. Socialism and communism are perfectly fine theoretical systems, until you introduce humans into the equation with desires for power, wealth, etc. I have seen no hint that Libertarianism is somehow above this and will be the panacea. I also have no idea how you come to the conclusion that collusion will not be a problem in a libertarian world.
- righthand 25d ago[flagged]
- madaxe_again 25d agoI live in Europe. I’ve been under investigation for money laundering twice in the last three years - not because I’ve laundered a single dime, but because I have no discernible employment and move large capital sums around the globe almost constantly, and my bank accounts and tax returns inarguably look fucking weird. All 100% above board - I just made some good investments a while back. I even had the feds come knocking because they decided they needed to check I wasn’t trafficking narcotics. We had a nice chat, they decided they didn’t need to search the place, and six months later I got a letter confirming the case had been archived. Like one of the folks in the article, I had weed on me when they rocked up. Thankfully, in Europe, that’s basically just a “shrug” by law enforcement, unless you’ve got clear intent to distribute. From how it all went, they had quite clearly decided this was a waste of their fucking time before they even arrived. None of this is a good thing, and none of it is terribly new, either - reporting on finances has been going on for decades, but the integration is getting tighter. The main problem as I see it is that it has a horrendous false positive rate, and you end up with innocent folks like yours truly having to waste their time and energy proving that they are innocent of a crime that a machine dreamt up.
- taybin 25d agoIt does sound like you should have been investigated though. Like, this sounds like the (or a) system working. What would the alternatives be? Don't investigate for money laundering? Or have so much info that they can eliminate you as interesting without even having a visit?
- iamnothere 25d agoWait for actual evidence of a crime (or even an anonymous tip) instead of going on a fishing expedition targeting anyone with an unusual lifestyle or weird spending habits? I’m sure we could just put always-on cameras in every house to catch criminals too, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
- RHSeeger 25d ago> I’m sure we could just put always-on cameras in every house to catch criminals too, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I use this type of point all the time, and every time to blank stares. Me> The Flock surveillance network is bad - it is an invasion of privacy and gives way too much power to people that should not have that power. It _can_ be used to solve crimes, and does. But so could not allowing anyone out of their house without a permit. But that, too, would be stupid and harm society Them> _blank stare_ But.. it saved a child once.
- clumsysmurf 25d ago> The DHS document obtained by 404 Media shows that Border Patrol is analyzing the financial activity of Americans to find people to pull over... > It is not clear how exactly Border Patrol is monitoring Americans’ financial activity. Can anyone take a guess how they are monitoring financial activity?
- eloisius 25d agoBuying it from CapitalOne like everyone else?
- joncrane 24d agoIs CapOne unique among banks and sells data that e.g. Chase and Citi don't?
- kart23 25d agospending taxpayer money on buying the taxpayers data from credit card companies. imagine paying someone to buy your own information to spy on you, pretty incredible system that we've come up with
- mrguyorama 25d agoExplicitly bypasses your rights too! Cops don't need a warrant if they can buy it with your money.
- pauldavis 25d agoThis is exactly "information retrieval charges" from the film "Brazil"
- convolvatron 25d agoI worked a little on a finsec program in the early 90s. I had an anonymized dataset with bank account deposits and withdrawals and credit card transactions. I don't know how complete it was, but dividing by the US population the total number of records made it pretty feasible that it was the whole thing.
- Triphibian 25d agoThis tells me you should always pay cash if you are having a beer.
- ProllyInfamous 25d agoState law in Tennessee requires all alcohol transactors to be ID'd; many retail stores have begun "scanning" the 2D barcode on the state ID's reverse (also for lighters, cough syrup, &c). If you have a US Passport Card, there is no 2D barcode and your address isn't visible – yet it is still valid ID. I have also had success with placing an "I VOTED" sticker over TN_ID's 2D barcode; if the cashier looks puzzled I'll usually just say "I don't want my ID scanned so I'll just go put this back" – and then I can usually purchase alcohol (without scanless passport). I always use cash for reasons, even if that is only to not become thousands-more datapoints for some soulless corporate bureucrats' annual dividends.
- tencentshill 24d agoThey'll also never reject a sale from those crazy people who think barcode lasers are radioactive or whatever.
- techgnosis 24d agoI suspect an absence of auditable financial transactions is itself a red flag
- m4ck_ 25d agoI get the vibe they're using ALPRs to identify drivers, and then going from there to find crime? Seems like criminal investigations should start with an actual crime. At the minimum, I would think that there would need to be some suspicion of criminal involvement to obtain a warrant to get financial records. Apparently this administration considers driving down the interstate suspicious enough to toss the constitution out the window.
- xhkkffbf 25d agoThe article doesn't seem to explain why the BP targeted these folks and not other license plates gathered by the reader. Presumably there's some pattern, right?
- avs733 25d ago>I get the vibe they're using ALPRs to identify drivers, and then going from there to find crime? This has gone on for a LONG time, but the change to empower it with AI tools that are presumed accurate is the new amplification.
- ryandrake 25d agoWe've long since transitioned away from "identify the crime and find the person" Law Enforcement to "target the person and find a crime" Law Enforcement.
- mapontosevenths 25d agoAt long last we have achieved equality. Now everyone can know what it's like to be pulled over for DWB!
- tiahura 25d agoFUD - the article literally says they don’t where the data came from.
- majorchord 25d agoWhy should we not fear the government using data (any data, but especially incorrect data) to make up thought crimes?
- tiahura 25d agoMaybe we read different articles? This one suggests a drug dealer’s money laundering set off alarms that he was a drug dealer.
- majorchord 25d agoWhat's wrong with that?
- politician 25d agoAnother headline to trigger the comrades. Do you not realize that all countries monitor capital movement so that, for example, the rulings of their judiciaries are enforced?
- MeetingsBrowser 25d agoDo you not realize last remnants of privacy died years ago? If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself.
- bigfishrunning 25d agoWouldn't the comrades want financial activity to be monitored, to make sure that nobody is getting more then everyone else? (unless they're a party official, of course)
- stanleykm 25d agoi have a feeling neither of you actually know what the comrades want
- politician 24d agoThe comrades in the US want the existing system removed. So, for now, while it remains, they want no policing, no oversight, no enforcement because weak governance advances their goals. Later, when the system is replaced with their preferred system, they will want maximum policing, maximum enforcement, maximum purges of undesirable elements because strong governance advances their goals. This behavior isn't a flaw, it's a feature.
- miohtama 25d agoThe violation of privacy and government breaking the social contract is why we must keep developing encryption and cryptocurrencies.
- gjsman-1000 25d agoIn what universe does using encryption to evade the government function as a survival strategy? Real life doesn't work that way. The government always has the $5 wrench. Or, well, the ability to just shut down your ISP.
- bigyabai 25d agoIf you're at the point where the CIA is beating you with a $5 wrench, your encryption is working excellently.
- triceratops 25d agoThat's cold comfort if you'd rather avoid a wrench beating.
- jjk166 25d agoDid you know they can just beat you with a wrench anyways? The "maybe if we do what they say and don't make a fuss they'll be appeased and stop" strategy fails when matched up against those who will never be appeased and stop.
- triceratops 25d ago> maybe if we do what they say and don't make a fuss I never suggested that. Encryption is necessary but not sufficient. Encrypt your shit. But above all vote, be engaged, and defend your rights like hell. If you're relying on encryption alone to protect you, it's already too late.
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- ratelimitsteve 25d ago"We're proud to announce today that we're rolling out a trial phase of the Torment Nexus, as made famous in the scifi novel and accompanying film entitled 'Whatever You Do, Do Not Create the Torment Nexus'."
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 25d agoBuy something or get out! /s
- maxrev17 25d agoI saw a film about this…
- Animats 25d agoInterstate transportation of marijuana is illegal in the US.[1] But why is DHS doing this? Stopping interstate drug trafficking is DEA's job, and DEA is in the Justice Department, not Homeland Security. Homeland Security should be looking for illegal aliens and labor contractors who move them. [1] https://federal-criminal.com/drugs/marijuana-cross-border-transportation-legal-implications/ https://federal-criminal.com/drugs/marijuana-cross-border-tr...
- AngryData 25d agoBecause they want the money. The reason drug crimes are so heavily enforced is because they come with large fines and fees and monetary rewards for the department that arrests them and the courts that prosecute them. They use it as a funding source. Look at what fines and fees a court gets when they successfully prosecute a murder versus a drug crime. Look at the grants the feds give towards police drug enforcement departments. DHS wants that easy cash.
- woodgala 25d agoOr punish the companies that hire them knowingly. Why punish the immigrants at all? If they weren’t given jobs they wouldn’t come.
- pocksuppet 25d agoThe point is to get workers for low costs, the purpose of the system is what it does. They need the workers, and they need the workers to be scared. If they had no workers they'd have no workers, and if the workers weren't scared they'd have to pay proper wages.
- theahura 25d agoSci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale. Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel Don't Create The Torment Nexus.
- asdff 25d agoEveryone's 401k: 100% TNEX
- 4b11b4 25d agoOpenAI swarm incident is just good practice
- deleted 25d ago[deleted]
- tyingq 25d agoThe Precogs don't see what you're gonna do, they see what you're gonna do if you're not stopped.
- BoggleOhYeah 25d agoGarry Tan's dream coming true.
- dabinat 25d agoIn the UK they passed laws a few decades ago allowing people to be surveilled, called RIPA. It was marketed as something necessary to catch terrorists and major criminals, that would only be used for those purposes. Within a few years local councils were using it for highly trivial things like fly-tipping, littering, and checking people lived in school catchment areas. This kind of stuff always trickles down.
- smrtinsert 25d agoI'm come to realize that movies and literature have nearly 0 ability to warn the people about what can could come to pass and why it is bad.
- EtienneDeLyon 24d ago[dead]