9 ms·

GrapheneOS Overhauled Default Apps and Secure Clipboard

415 points by Cider9986 1mo ago

andrepd 1mo ago
There are excellent FOSS gallery apps already, like the Fossify suite. Why not use them I wonder?
- HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
  Their license is invalid due to being GPLv3. GPLv3 cannot be included in GrapheneOS as that would necessitate GrapheneOS give up their permissive licensing. Refra Gallery is licensed as Apache 2.0, which is a permissive license GrapheneOS can bundle in the OS.
  - graemep 1mo ago
    Its not part of the OS so why would it affect the Graphene OS license? Its an app, not a library.
    - Cider9986 1mo ago
      The preinstalled apps are part of the OS.
      - gray_-_wolf 1mo ago
        That cannot be true, when I install e.g., Ubuntu system, there are plenty of applications installed for me, with incompatible licenses.
        novafunc 1mo ago
        Can you please elaborate on what you mean? Ubuntu does not aim to be a permissively-licensed system. It can include copyleft (e.g. GPL) and permissive (e.g. MIT) without issue. Permissively-licensed systems like FreeBSD and GrapheneOS cannot include GPL code if they want to remain permissive.
        xorcist 1mo ago
        > GrapheneOS cannot include GPL code if they want to remain permissive It's hard to take this seriously when the entire kernel is GPL.
        deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        GrapheneOS does include GPLv2 code both via AOSP and our own but not GPLv3. We want GrapheneOS to have no additional restrictions beyond AOSP. AOSP uses GPLv2 but not GPLv3. We do need to be careful with GPLv2 due to license incompatibilities. For example, GPLv2-only licensing such as the Linux kernel is incompatible with Apache 2 and GPLv3. GPLv3 is compatible with Apache 2 so GPLv2-or-later can be compatible but only by using it as GPLv3 with the extra restrictions too.
        exceptione 1mo ago
        It seems like you have more freedom than you think you do. See this comment <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49594824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49594824> Packaging software shouldn't change the license of GOS as such. If you haven't had already, maybe the free software foundation could provide you with assurance? I guess it will make your life much easier if you wouldn't have to restrict yourself that much.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        No, we're not talking about packaging software in our app repository (App Store) but rather software being included in GrapheneOS. If any GPLv3 software is included in GrapheneOS then that places more restrictions on how it can be used as a whole.
        HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        It is true, and if Ubuntu is shipping apps as a part of the OS with incompatible licenses, that is a crime.
        Cider9986 1mo ago
        Not a crime a civil matter.
        microtonal 1mo ago
        I think you are confused. You can have a Linux distribution with software with incompatible licenses (e.g. GPLv2 and Apache License version 2), because the license for a particular program or library only applies to that specific work, not other works that it is distributed with. The GPL is very clear on this: In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License. There are some cases where a separate work can be considered derivative and thus the GPL can apply. E.g. I think it is generally accepted that a program linked statically against a GPL library is considered a derivative work (and must thus must have a license compatible with the GPL). More controversial is whether dynamic linking creates a derivative work. To cover the latter case, a lot of copyleft libraries are licensed under the LGPL or the GPL with a dynamic linking exception. At any rate, shipping a Linux distribution with GPLv2 code (e.g. the Linux kernel) and a GUI application that is under the Apache v2 license is not a problem at all (as long as the GUI application is not a derivative of a GPLv2 work). (IANAL of course, so this is not legal advice.)
        HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        GPLv2 and Apache 2.0 are not incompatible licenses when bundled together. GPLv3 is the problematic license as it requires all code it is bundled with be GPLv3 as well. When it comes to AOSP/GOS, bundled apps are not aggregated together, they are built and signed under a singular OS binary.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        OS components don't need to have compatible licenses if they're separate from each other. The Linux kernel is GPLv2-only which forbids GPLv3 licensing. That doesn't mean GPLv3 code can't be used in a Linux-based OS. We use GPLv2 and permissive licensing for GrapheneOS to avoid more restrictive licensing than the AOSP. We'll happily use GPLv3 and AGPLv3 for components outside of GrapheneOS if we think it's the best fit for specific projects. We aren't currently licensing anything as GPLv3/AGPLv3 but we aren't strictly opposed to it outside of the OS. We'll use what we think are the best open source licenses for what we want to achieve. What we want to achieve is usually broad adoption of our code with painless usage of it. That means we usually choose permissive licenses. We use GPLv2 in certain cases such as Vanadium where we decided we wanted extensions to our code to be under a compatible open source license instead of a source available license or GPLv3.
        Cider9986 1mo ago
        There's 5 licenses :o
      - yjftsjthsd-h 1mo ago
        IANAL, but I would expect that to fall under "mere aggregation"
    - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
      The Refra gallery fork would replace the current ancient gallery app. That would be bundled with the OS. Doing the same with the fossify suite or similar would be illegal. These licenses do not treat apps or libraries differently. GPLv3 code forces the code that it is bundled with to also be GPLv3.
      - kasabali 1mo ago
        That's textbook FUD.
  - gkoz 1mo ago
    Can the Linux kernel be included in the OS?
    - palata 1mo ago
      Linux is GPLv2, though. Not sure if that makes a difference here.
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        It does make a difference. GrapheneOS includes a lot of GPLv2 code from AOSP and we choose it as a license for several of own projects within GrapheneOS.
    - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
      Yes, the GPLv2 license does not have the same restrictions GPLv3 does, it does not necessitate making the code it is bundled with GPLv2.
      - microtonal 1mo ago
        Neither does the GPLv3: A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an “aggregate” if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate. If you'd include a GPLv3 gallery app in, say, a mobile OS, it does not mean that the rest of the OS has to be under the GPLv3. It merely means that you cannot limit the user's right when it comes to the GPLv3-part (the gallery app). They would still be allowed to redistribute/modify it and you have to provide the source code on request. You only have to make other code GPLv3 if you somehow create a derivative work (e.g. linking against a GPLv3 library). (IANAL blah blah)
        1mo ago
- DANmode 1mo ago
  Media handlers are a security nightmare, might lead you to the right answer if it isn’t it.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  We're going to be forking one of them (ReFra). We want to make extensive changes and have a different vision for it than the upstream project. For example, we don't want it to have integration into services. There's plenty of room for both an increasingly different fork of it in GrapheneOS and the original project which our users will continue to use who want features we don't consider inside the scope of what we want from a local gallery app.
Cider9986 1mo ago
twitter versions have paragraphs not threads https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muun5c4fdc2o https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muun5c4fdc2o Secure paste: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v
IshKebab 1mo ago
Very good idea! Google abandoned these long ago. I don't really get why so many Americans want RCS to succeed though. Do you guys not remember when carriers charged 10p/text? Why on earth would you want to give any power at all back to those people?
- downrightmike 1mo ago
  The only benefit is sending higher DPI pictures between android and ios
  - annzabelle 1mo ago
    It makes group messaging work a lot better, too. Previously, group chats with a mixture of ios and android users were really buggy leading to iPhone users significantly preferring group chats with all ios, which led to some social exclusion for android users in the US, leading to market dominance for iPhones. Now, with RCS, you can make a functional group chat across platforms and you don't have to convince anybody to install something new.
    - wolvoleo 1mo ago
      Well that is if that user uses Google messages. I certainly don't even have it installed.
      - annzabelle 1mo ago
        If you have a smartphone from the last 5 years, you have to have done something unusual to it to not have an SMS app that also does RCS.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      That's one of the reasons we care about it for GrapheneOS. It also provides end-to-end encryption between Android and iOS via Messaging Layer Security (MLS) which is clearly very important for us. GrapheneOS users needing to use Google Messages to get E2EE with Google Messages and iOS users who haven't been convinced to use Signal instead is not ideal. We do have Google Messages working via sandboxed Google Play but want to replace it.
kotaKat 1mo ago
"RCS isn't an open platform in practice. It isn't even as open as SMS/MMS. It heavily depends on proprietary Google and carrier infrastructure in practice. We can start by replicating Google's approach and then we can work on only using carrier services for carriers where it's actually supported." Except... what carriers still remain using their own RCS carrier services and haven't been pressured by Google to adopt Jive?
- benwaffle 1mo ago
  None except Jio in India and various carriers in China
thinkp26 1mo ago
I'm happy todays update shipped auto call recording.
- subscribed 1mo ago
  Yay! Finally, been waiting for it for ages. Maybe they'll work on the backup now, this *** seedvault is worse than nothing (consistently broken on both my GOS phones, never giving the same results with 2 backups, never giving out as much as the status I could trust)
- TZubiri 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    One of the parties involved in a call recording it is not surveillance. It's comparable to having chat logs for text messaging. Contrary to what you've claimed, vast majority of US states have one party consent for call recording. GrapheneOS Foundation is based in Canada where one party consent is the law. Our feature is designed for people to comply with the law in jurisdictions requiring two party consent. It shows a notice for every inbound and outbound call where call recording will be enabled. It also has a per-contact toggle for enabling it instead of simply being either enabled or disabled. We also plan to offer the option to have it automatically disclose the call is being recorded.
    - TZubiri 1mo ago
      [flagged]
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        You've made multiple comments disparaging GrapheneOS because of two minor features it provides. Both features are fully legal for GrapheneOS to include. Both are legal to use as long as people follow applicable laws. Both our regular call recording and automatic call recording features display a prominent warning to users about following call recording consent laws. Proceeding requires accepting the dialog acknowledging the warning. Our implementation discourages people from violating laws and is fully legal itself. There are other ways to record calls such as enabling speaker mode and using another device to record the audio. It's similar to apps trying to prevent users from taking screenshots. It fundamentally doesn't work.
exceptione 1mo ago
> RCS isn't an open platform in practice. It isn't even as open as SMS/MMS. It heavily depends on proprietary Google and carrier infrastructure in practice. We can start by replicating Google's approach and then we can work on only using carrier services for carriers where it's actually supported. What is the point of RCS though? It seems to be strictly inferior to Signal. It seems a Google product meant to serve Google. I wouldn't hate it if GrapheneOS would totally ignore RCS. I fail to see any value in it, but maybe I am lacking information(?)
- kevin_thibedeau 1mo ago
  RCS allows higher resolution pictures than MMS.
  - cesarb 1mo ago
    Perhaps it's different in other countries, but I've never seen anyone use MMS. (Everyone uses WhatsApp nowadays, but even before WhatsApp existed, I never saw anyone use MMS.)
    - Telaneo 1mo ago
      I've seen people try, only for it to never actually work (images either compress horribly, to the point there's no reason even sending it, or just fail to send). MMS bring broken since day 1 in my experience is probably the reason I jumped on internet chat and email, since those actually work as advertised (sure, they has some practical limits, but they tell you about those!). I probably would have sent my mum that image over MMS if MMS actually every worked. Since it never did, using a difference service was a must. Then again, this feels like an extension of the rest of the phone system. Anything beyond calls between two people, SMS and data that involves connecting to the phone system has always (in my experience) been either janky or broken. No wonder I try to use anything else given the opportunity.
    - Groxx 1mo ago
      It depends heavily on country, yes. USA is extremely light on WhatsApp, and MMS use is widespread (and has been free for a long time now, and SMS even longer). RCS is a mostly silent upgrade for USA. I'm not sure which of the two is better tbh. Utterly dominated by a Facebook-owned system, or using something that's crappy enough that people spread out to a variety of systems?
goda90 1mo ago
I believe this is the planned gallery app. I've already been using it: https://github.com/IacobIonut01/ReFra https://github.com/IacobIonut01/ReFra
- aussieguy1234 1mo ago
  Just tried this out. I may soon be cancelling by Google Photos subscription...
  - ticoombs 1mo ago
    While you're doing that check out Immich - https://immich.app https://immich.app One of the best solutions I've ever used for photos, backups, enrichment, etc
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    Ente photos is the best. It's almost as good as Apple Photos.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  Our plan is to fork ReFra and drastically change it. We have a different scope and requirements for it. ReFra will still be useful for people who want features we don't plan to provide. We've considered trying to do it as an ongoing fork and making upstream contributions which we started on but it likely isn't practical. We haven't fully decided on this.
  - throawayonthe 1mo ago
    keeping the OCR and CLIP right? the main thing i miss from ios is the great local ocr + image tagging and search in the photos app
lucb1e 1mo ago
Ctrl+f clipboard, no results. What does "Secure Clipboard" in the title refer to? The release seems to be only the SMS/RCS app, rest is future: > We're also going to be overhauling or fully replacing the rest of the AOSP apps in the near future. AOSP Gallery is incredibly outdated and is being entirely replaced. AOSP Keyboard may be similar. We recently hired a bunch of new people and will be hiring more so our progress will be accelerating.
- minitech 1mo ago
  https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v
- XenoCyber0 1mo ago
  [dead]
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  There's a separate thread about our secure clipboard feature: https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v We posted it right after the Messaging app thread but they're separate topics.
drnick1 1mo ago
[flagged]
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  They are using AI [1]. I don't think messaging app is non-critical though. [1] https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Camera/tree/compose https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Camera/tree/compose
  - BearOso 1mo ago
    I dunno. If they're using AI, it's well controlled. I don't see a lot of artifacts you usually get from full-on vibe-coding.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      Our code quality standards are very high. Vibe coding is not capable of meeting those standards. The details of how things get written and improved to meet our standards is up to individual developers. We don't have a policy against developers using AI for assistance. They need to understand all of the code and it needs to pass our code review. Our code review is now usually a lot more thorough than before. In addition to human review, we regularly pass code through a couple frontier AI models and then review the results to figure out which claims it makes are valid. Even the frontier models hallucinate many non-existent problems and often get a lot of details wrong when they find real problems, but they do find a lot of real problems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592770
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    Our port of Messaging to Compose was clearly not vibe coded as both the parent comment and yours are wrongly portraying it. Experienced developers have been working on overhauling the app for months with a lot of back and forth code review to get the pull requests into shape. We don't have a policy against using AI for assistance as long as the resulting code meets our high standards. We definitely use frontier AI models with cybersecurity access unlocked for code review. Those often find problems we didn't catch via multiple rounds of human review. The output is filled with hallucinations and incorrect details but an experienced developer can sift through it, identify the real issues it uncovered and get those fixed.
ravenstine 1mo ago
I hope they replace the AOSP keyboard with FUTO keyboard. I'm mostly fine with the other stock apps, but that keyboard was the one thing I absolutely had to end up replacing due to its jenky behavior.
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  I agree FUTO is the best right now but it's not open source so they won't.
  - Groxx 1mo ago
    The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.
    - mrob 1mo ago
      From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd
pizzaiolo 1mo ago
Graphene is clearly bullish on Android, but I have no idea why. The writing is on the wall, Google is slowly asphyxiating AOSP.
- palata 1mo ago
  They may as well get ready for an eventual hard fork, then?
- NewJazz 1mo ago
  Yes RCS is barely a standard worth implementing, let alone the best one. Make SMS/MMS and XMPP work together seamlessly in one app, forget RCS.
  - wolvoleo 1mo ago
    Yes RCS is a pig with lipstick. Invented by the carriers to recoup some control over instant messaging, then abandoned and picked up by Google for the same reason. They're the ones that added encryption to it. It was always meant to be a walled garden. Exactly what an open system shouldn't be.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      RCS is important because it provides end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for contacts with Google Messages and iOS. That means having E2EE for the vast majority of smartphone users since Google Messages is the standard GMS Android carrier-based messaging app. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026
  - Geezus_42 1mo ago
    Remember Pidgin and Trillium?
    - DANmode 1mo ago
      I remember who forced me to consider other options.
0points 1mo ago
[flagged]
- HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
  What? The Messages overhaul has been going on in the background for months. They announced it near the end of the port rather than the start. What is wrong with that? It has nothing to do with AI. You can check github and see this development has been going on for awhile.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  We've done months of work on overhauling the Messaging app. It has been done in incremental portions with code review for each. It often goes back and forth several times before it gets merged. Why not look at the quite open development and code review process on GitHub? https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Messaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Amerged https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Messaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3... Every release of GrapheneOS and GrapheneOS apps goes through internal testing followed by public Alpha channel testing and then public Beta channel testing before reaching the Stable channel. No update goes to Stable without internal, Alpha and Beta channel testing phases. We've been heavily testing our Messaging overhaul as we've been doing it and we've been making a lot more tests than we used to. It's already in quite good shape and is ready for Alpha channel testing. That's what we're referring to.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
cwillu 1mo ago
“We'll be making a new release later today with a completely overhauled user interface written in ‹whatever›” is something developers love, and users fear.
- chasil 1mo ago
  LineageOS keyboard and the Trebuchet launcher would be most helpful. I do miss keyboard symbols without shifting and icon packs.
  - epihelix 1mo ago
    FUTO Keyboard or Heliboard (both FOSS) will give you key symbols without shifting, as will likely several other FOSS keyboards.
    - yencabulator 29d ago
      FUTO is not FOSS.
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  Saying it's going to be released later today means to the Alpha channel. GrapheneOS and each of our apps have Alpha, Beta and Stable channels. Every Stable channel release made it through Alpha and Beta channel testing. We don't expect the initial Messaging app release to reach the Stable channel. AOSP Messaging hasn't been actively developed since around Android 5.x and nearly no one is going to be unhappy with the changes. We're changing very little about the overall layout and structure of the app in this initial phase of the overhaul. Over the past couple months, it was carefully ported to Compose with a lot of code review and added tests. It was a lot of work and is going to look a lot more modern. It's also now possible to greatly improve the user interface in much more substantial ways than making it look modern.
- HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
  If you have used GrapheneOS, you know Messaging is positively ancient and bitrotting. The overhaul makes it look like the rest of the OS and uses standard material 3. Its not something to fear.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
TZubiri 1mo ago
[flagged]
- mitxela 1mo ago
  ????????????
- HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
  Android and IOS encrypt your device. Most modern phones do, that is not specific to GrapheneOS and is an important, generic part of data safety that has been used for decades. GrapheneOS offers a duress PIN/password, not button, that is solely up to the user to use as they see fit. The threat model for its use is on the user to determine, and the example you are referring to was a judgement that person made. That decision is independent of GrapheneOS. Whether or not it was a blunder can only be known by the person who used it. Maybe it was a miscalculation, or maybe they were trying to hide something of importance, like protected contacts in an authoritarian country. We cannot know. Duress PIN is for when the consequences of having the data are worse than erasing the data. This is very important for journalists or citizens of an authoritarian government. The judgements these people make are not a reflection of GrapheneOS.
water-drummer 1mo ago
Funny reading those anti-LLM comments, lol
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  We spent months working on this and certainly didn't vibe code it. We do use LLMs but primarily for code review and boilerplate. We're now including a lot more tests partly thanks to it being less of a pain. Our quality standards are too high for current frontier LLMs to generate much we could use directly. On the other hand, their code review output is extremely useful. It can find many issues we wouldn't catch even with multiple rounds of human review. It's helping us a lot with catching issues we've repeatedly overlooked.
  - water-drummer 1mo ago
    Yeah, I know you guys are using LLMs responsibly. I just found those anti-LLM crusaders funny they way they were calling it an unethical and fascist technology. As long as the code is being held to the same standards (which have been very high), it's only going to help the developers. Btw, please save yourself some energy and mental peace by ignoring these people who haven't written a single line of serious code and are only there for bandwagoning and pushing their political agendas. Love the work that you guys do that's why I'd love for you guys to be able to focus on the mission and not get distracted by them. Thanks for all the hard work!
yellowapple 1mo ago
> In the longer term, we plan to add support for RCS including support for the standard end-to-end encryption (E2EE) via Messaging Layer Security (MLS). Currently, RCS including E2EE is available on GrapheneOS via Google Messages. We want to avoid the need to use Google Messages for RCS eventually. Hell yeah. Google Messages has worked reasonably well for RCS so far (after a long and frustrating period where it didn't on T-Mobile), but having a non-Google option will be huge.
teekert 1mo ago
They are really creating a lot of buzz recently. I love it, I hope they succeed beyond just us geeks here. It is imho imperative for a fair and balanced technological society that it retains the means for truly private and secure communications. My devices help me think, and my thoughts are my own. That is a fundamental condition of human-hood. Sure we can change that, if that's what we want, but do we? If we do, do we make it a conscious choice per person? Or do we let big tech/corporatocracy dictate what it is to be human?
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
il-b 1mo ago
Could they just do PGP over SMS, built into the default app? They have all the machinery in place to store keys securely.
- hn8726 1mo ago
  And send the content + PGP envelope over how many text messages? And for every single message?
vancekai 1mo ago
[dead]
ruslan 1mo ago
I would prefer to have Delta Chat like app that uses email (SMTP/IMAP) as transport instead.
Unified-Mentor 1mo ago
[dead]
butz 1mo ago
Default apps in GrapheneOS are really outdated. Especially "Gallery" where on standard "compact" device top navbar is still too small and requires very precise touch. Hopefully, little by little, all stock applications will be updated to more modern variants. I personally had plans to build some open source stock Android applications, but after whole nonsense with platform being locked down I do not see the point in investing my time, just for google to block my apps.
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  > I personally had plans to build some open source stock Android applications, but after whole nonsense with platform being locked down I do not see the point in investing my time, just for google to block my apps. It doesn't apply to GrapheneOS users and it doesn't affect developers who have apps on the play store. You should do it! Many users on stock android who would install apps not from the play store will have gone through the 24 hours or used ADB.
- nicman23 1mo ago
  i think the worst offender is dialer
zerozerotwo 1mo ago
The rcs part doesn’t make sense at all, it’s a google messaging standard. How do you do rcs without Google approval esp for things like business messaging it has to go to Google for approval eventually.

415 points by Cider9986 1mo ago

andrepd 1mo ago

There are excellent FOSS gallery apps already, like the Fossify suite. Why not use them I wonder?

HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
Their license is invalid due to being GPLv3. GPLv3 cannot be included in GrapheneOS as that would necessitate GrapheneOS give up their permissive licensing. Refra Gallery is licensed as Apache 2.0, which is a permissive license GrapheneOS can bundle in the OS.
- graemep 1mo ago
  Its not part of the OS so why would it affect the Graphene OS license? Its an app, not a library.
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    The preinstalled apps are part of the OS.
    - gray_-_wolf 1mo ago
      That cannot be true, when I install e.g., Ubuntu system, there are plenty of applications installed for me, with incompatible licenses.
      - novafunc 1mo ago
        Can you please elaborate on what you mean? Ubuntu does not aim to be a permissively-licensed system. It can include copyleft (e.g. GPL) and permissive (e.g. MIT) without issue. Permissively-licensed systems like FreeBSD and GrapheneOS cannot include GPL code if they want to remain permissive.
        xorcist 1mo ago
        > GrapheneOS cannot include GPL code if they want to remain permissive It's hard to take this seriously when the entire kernel is GPL.
        deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        GrapheneOS does include GPLv2 code both via AOSP and our own but not GPLv3. We want GrapheneOS to have no additional restrictions beyond AOSP. AOSP uses GPLv2 but not GPLv3. We do need to be careful with GPLv2 due to license incompatibilities. For example, GPLv2-only licensing such as the Linux kernel is incompatible with Apache 2 and GPLv3. GPLv3 is compatible with Apache 2 so GPLv2-or-later can be compatible but only by using it as GPLv3 with the extra restrictions too.
        exceptione 1mo ago
        It seems like you have more freedom than you think you do. See this comment <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49594824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49594824> Packaging software shouldn't change the license of GOS as such. If you haven't had already, maybe the free software foundation could provide you with assurance? I guess it will make your life much easier if you wouldn't have to restrict yourself that much.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        No, we're not talking about packaging software in our app repository (App Store) but rather software being included in GrapheneOS. If any GPLv3 software is included in GrapheneOS then that places more restrictions on how it can be used as a whole.
      - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        It is true, and if Ubuntu is shipping apps as a part of the OS with incompatible licenses, that is a crime.
        Cider9986 1mo ago
        Not a crime a civil matter.
        microtonal 1mo ago
        I think you are confused. You can have a Linux distribution with software with incompatible licenses (e.g. GPLv2 and Apache License version 2), because the license for a particular program or library only applies to that specific work, not other works that it is distributed with. The GPL is very clear on this: In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License. There are some cases where a separate work can be considered derivative and thus the GPL can apply. E.g. I think it is generally accepted that a program linked statically against a GPL library is considered a derivative work (and must thus must have a license compatible with the GPL). More controversial is whether dynamic linking creates a derivative work. To cover the latter case, a lot of copyleft libraries are licensed under the LGPL or the GPL with a dynamic linking exception. At any rate, shipping a Linux distribution with GPLv2 code (e.g. the Linux kernel) and a GUI application that is under the Apache v2 license is not a problem at all (as long as the GUI application is not a derivative of a GPLv2 work). (IANAL of course, so this is not legal advice.)
        HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        GPLv2 and Apache 2.0 are not incompatible licenses when bundled together. GPLv3 is the problematic license as it requires all code it is bundled with be GPLv3 as well. When it comes to AOSP/GOS, bundled apps are not aggregated together, they are built and signed under a singular OS binary.
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        OS components don't need to have compatible licenses if they're separate from each other. The Linux kernel is GPLv2-only which forbids GPLv3 licensing. That doesn't mean GPLv3 code can't be used in a Linux-based OS. We use GPLv2 and permissive licensing for GrapheneOS to avoid more restrictive licensing than the AOSP. We'll happily use GPLv3 and AGPLv3 for components outside of GrapheneOS if we think it's the best fit for specific projects. We aren't currently licensing anything as GPLv3/AGPLv3 but we aren't strictly opposed to it outside of the OS. We'll use what we think are the best open source licenses for what we want to achieve. What we want to achieve is usually broad adoption of our code with painless usage of it. That means we usually choose permissive licenses. We use GPLv2 in certain cases such as Vanadium where we decided we wanted extensions to our code to be under a compatible open source license instead of a source available license or GPLv3.
        Cider9986 1mo ago
        There's 5 licenses :o
    - yjftsjthsd-h 1mo ago
      IANAL, but I would expect that to fall under "mere aggregation"
  - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
    The Refra gallery fork would replace the current ancient gallery app. That would be bundled with the OS. Doing the same with the fossify suite or similar would be illegal. These licenses do not treat apps or libraries differently. GPLv3 code forces the code that it is bundled with to also be GPLv3.
    - kasabali 1mo ago
      That's textbook FUD.
- gkoz 1mo ago
  Can the Linux kernel be included in the OS?
  - palata 1mo ago
    Linux is GPLv2, though. Not sure if that makes a difference here.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      It does make a difference. GrapheneOS includes a lot of GPLv2 code from AOSP and we choose it as a license for several of own projects within GrapheneOS.
  - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
    Yes, the GPLv2 license does not have the same restrictions GPLv3 does, it does not necessitate making the code it is bundled with GPLv2.
    - microtonal 1mo ago
      Neither does the GPLv3: A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an “aggregate” if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate. If you'd include a GPLv3 gallery app in, say, a mobile OS, it does not mean that the rest of the OS has to be under the GPLv3. It merely means that you cannot limit the user's right when it comes to the GPLv3-part (the gallery app). They would still be allowed to redistribute/modify it and you have to provide the source code on request. You only have to make other code GPLv3 if you somehow create a derivative work (e.g. linking against a GPLv3 library). (IANAL blah blah)
      - 1mo ago
DANmode 1mo ago
Media handlers are a security nightmare, might lead you to the right answer if it isn’t it.
grapheneos 1mo ago
We're going to be forking one of them (ReFra). We want to make extensive changes and have a different vision for it than the upstream project. For example, we don't want it to have integration into services. There's plenty of room for both an increasingly different fork of it in GrapheneOS and the original project which our users will continue to use who want features we don't consider inside the scope of what we want from a local gallery app.

Cider9986 1mo ago

twitter versions have paragraphs not threads https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096677808424788256#m https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muun5c4fdc2o https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muun5c4fdc2o Secure paste: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://nitter.click/GrapheneOS/status/2096685327020933355#m https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v

IshKebab 1mo ago

Very good idea! Google abandoned these long ago. I don't really get why so many Americans want RCS to succeed though. Do you guys not remember when carriers charged 10p/text? Why on earth would you want to give any power at all back to those people?

downrightmike 1mo ago
The only benefit is sending higher DPI pictures between android and ios
- annzabelle 1mo ago
  It makes group messaging work a lot better, too. Previously, group chats with a mixture of ios and android users were really buggy leading to iPhone users significantly preferring group chats with all ios, which led to some social exclusion for android users in the US, leading to market dominance for iPhones. Now, with RCS, you can make a functional group chat across platforms and you don't have to convince anybody to install something new.
  - wolvoleo 1mo ago
    Well that is if that user uses Google messages. I certainly don't even have it installed.
    - annzabelle 1mo ago
      If you have a smartphone from the last 5 years, you have to have done something unusual to it to not have an SMS app that also does RCS.
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    That's one of the reasons we care about it for GrapheneOS. It also provides end-to-end encryption between Android and iOS via Messaging Layer Security (MLS) which is clearly very important for us. GrapheneOS users needing to use Google Messages to get E2EE with Google Messages and iOS users who haven't been convinced to use Signal instead is not ideal. We do have Google Messages working via sandboxed Google Play but want to replace it.

kotaKat 1mo ago

"RCS isn't an open platform in practice. It isn't even as open as SMS/MMS. It heavily depends on proprietary Google and carrier infrastructure in practice. We can start by replicating Google's approach and then we can work on only using carrier services for carriers where it's actually supported." Except... what carriers still remain using their own RCS carrier services and haven't been pressured by Google to adopt Jive?

benwaffle 1mo ago
None except Jio in India and various carriers in China

thinkp26 1mo ago

I'm happy todays update shipped auto call recording.

subscribed 1mo ago
Yay! Finally, been waiting for it for ages. Maybe they'll work on the backup now, this *** seedvault is worse than nothing (consistently broken on both my GOS phones, never giving the same results with 2 backups, never giving out as much as the status I could trust)
TZubiri 1mo ago
[flagged]
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  One of the parties involved in a call recording it is not surveillance. It's comparable to having chat logs for text messaging. Contrary to what you've claimed, vast majority of US states have one party consent for call recording. GrapheneOS Foundation is based in Canada where one party consent is the law. Our feature is designed for people to comply with the law in jurisdictions requiring two party consent. It shows a notice for every inbound and outbound call where call recording will be enabled. It also has a per-contact toggle for enabling it instead of simply being either enabled or disabled. We also plan to offer the option to have it automatically disclose the call is being recorded.
  - TZubiri 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      You've made multiple comments disparaging GrapheneOS because of two minor features it provides. Both features are fully legal for GrapheneOS to include. Both are legal to use as long as people follow applicable laws. Both our regular call recording and automatic call recording features display a prominent warning to users about following call recording consent laws. Proceeding requires accepting the dialog acknowledging the warning. Our implementation discourages people from violating laws and is fully legal itself. There are other ways to record calls such as enabling speaker mode and using another device to record the audio. It's similar to apps trying to prevent users from taking screenshots. It fundamentally doesn't work.

exceptione 1mo ago

> RCS isn't an open platform in practice. It isn't even as open as SMS/MMS. It heavily depends on proprietary Google and carrier infrastructure in practice. We can start by replicating Google's approach and then we can work on only using carrier services for carriers where it's actually supported. What is the point of RCS though? It seems to be strictly inferior to Signal. It seems a Google product meant to serve Google. I wouldn't hate it if GrapheneOS would totally ignore RCS. I fail to see any value in it, but maybe I am lacking information(?)

kevin_thibedeau 1mo ago
RCS allows higher resolution pictures than MMS.
- cesarb 1mo ago
  Perhaps it's different in other countries, but I've never seen anyone use MMS. (Everyone uses WhatsApp nowadays, but even before WhatsApp existed, I never saw anyone use MMS.)
  - Telaneo 1mo ago
    I've seen people try, only for it to never actually work (images either compress horribly, to the point there's no reason even sending it, or just fail to send). MMS bring broken since day 1 in my experience is probably the reason I jumped on internet chat and email, since those actually work as advertised (sure, they has some practical limits, but they tell you about those!). I probably would have sent my mum that image over MMS if MMS actually every worked. Since it never did, using a difference service was a must. Then again, this feels like an extension of the rest of the phone system. Anything beyond calls between two people, SMS and data that involves connecting to the phone system has always (in my experience) been either janky or broken. No wonder I try to use anything else given the opportunity.
  - Groxx 1mo ago
    It depends heavily on country, yes. USA is extremely light on WhatsApp, and MMS use is widespread (and has been free for a long time now, and SMS even longer). RCS is a mostly silent upgrade for USA. I'm not sure which of the two is better tbh. Utterly dominated by a Facebook-owned system, or using something that's crappy enough that people spread out to a variety of systems?

goda90 1mo ago

I believe this is the planned gallery app. I've already been using it: https://github.com/IacobIonut01/ReFra https://github.com/IacobIonut01/ReFra

aussieguy1234 1mo ago
Just tried this out. I may soon be cancelling by Google Photos subscription...
- ticoombs 1mo ago
  While you're doing that check out Immich - https://immich.app https://immich.app One of the best solutions I've ever used for photos, backups, enrichment, etc
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  Ente photos is the best. It's almost as good as Apple Photos.
grapheneos 1mo ago
Our plan is to fork ReFra and drastically change it. We have a different scope and requirements for it. ReFra will still be useful for people who want features we don't plan to provide. We've considered trying to do it as an ongoing fork and making upstream contributions which we started on but it likely isn't practical. We haven't fully decided on this.
- throawayonthe 1mo ago
  keeping the OCR and CLIP right? the main thing i miss from ios is the great local ocr + image tagging and search in the photos app

lucb1e 1mo ago

Ctrl+f clipboard, no results. What does "Secure Clipboard" in the title refer to? The release seems to be only the SMS/RCS app, rest is future: > We're also going to be overhauling or fully replacing the rest of the AOSP apps in the near future. AOSP Gallery is incredibly outdated and is being entirely replaced. AOSP Keyboard may be similar. We recently hired a bunch of new people and will be hiring more so our progress will be accelerating.

minitech 1mo ago
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117225731764489295 https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v
XenoCyber0 1mo ago
[dead]
grapheneos 1mo ago
There's a separate thread about our secure clipboard feature: https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v https://bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/post/3muupuvlfbs2v We posted it right after the Messaging app thread but they're separate topics.

drnick1 1mo ago

[flagged]

Cider9986 1mo ago
They are using AI [1]. I don't think messaging app is non-critical though. [1] https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Camera/tree/compose https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Camera/tree/compose
- BearOso 1mo ago
  I dunno. If they're using AI, it's well controlled. I don't see a lot of artifacts you usually get from full-on vibe-coding.
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    Our code quality standards are very high. Vibe coding is not capable of meeting those standards. The details of how things get written and improved to meet our standards is up to individual developers. We don't have a policy against developers using AI for assistance. They need to understand all of the code and it needs to pass our code review. Our code review is now usually a lot more thorough than before. In addition to human review, we regularly pass code through a couple frontier AI models and then review the results to figure out which claims it makes are valid. Even the frontier models hallucinate many non-existent problems and often get a lot of details wrong when they find real problems, but they do find a lot of real problems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592770
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  Our port of Messaging to Compose was clearly not vibe coded as both the parent comment and yours are wrongly portraying it. Experienced developers have been working on overhauling the app for months with a lot of back and forth code review to get the pull requests into shape. We don't have a policy against using AI for assistance as long as the resulting code meets our high standards. We definitely use frontier AI models with cybersecurity access unlocked for code review. Those often find problems we didn't catch via multiple rounds of human review. The output is filled with hallucinations and incorrect details but an experienced developer can sift through it, identify the real issues it uncovered and get those fixed.

ravenstine 1mo ago

I hope they replace the AOSP keyboard with FUTO keyboard. I'm mostly fine with the other stock apps, but that keyboard was the one thing I absolutely had to end up replacing due to its jenky behavior.

Cider9986 1mo ago
I agree FUTO is the best right now but it's not open source so they won't.
- Groxx 1mo ago
  The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.
  - mrob 1mo ago
    From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd

pizzaiolo 1mo ago

Graphene is clearly bullish on Android, but I have no idea why. The writing is on the wall, Google is slowly asphyxiating AOSP.

palata 1mo ago
They may as well get ready for an eventual hard fork, then?
NewJazz 1mo ago
Yes RCS is barely a standard worth implementing, let alone the best one. Make SMS/MMS and XMPP work together seamlessly in one app, forget RCS.
- wolvoleo 1mo ago
  Yes RCS is a pig with lipstick. Invented by the carriers to recoup some control over instant messaging, then abandoned and picked up by Google for the same reason. They're the ones that added encryption to it. It was always meant to be a walled garden. Exactly what an open system shouldn't be.
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    RCS is important because it provides end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for contacts with Google Messages and iOS. That means having E2EE for the vast majority of smartphone users since Google Messages is the standard GMS Android carrier-based messaging app. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026
- Geezus_42 1mo ago
  Remember Pidgin and Trillium?
  - DANmode 1mo ago
    I remember who forced me to consider other options.

0points 1mo ago

[flagged]

HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
What? The Messages overhaul has been going on in the background for months. They announced it near the end of the port rather than the start. What is wrong with that? It has nothing to do with AI. You can check github and see this development has been going on for awhile.
grapheneos 1mo ago
We've done months of work on overhauling the Messaging app. It has been done in incremental portions with code review for each. It often goes back and forth several times before it gets merged. Why not look at the quite open development and code review process on GitHub? https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Messaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Amerged https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Messaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3... Every release of GrapheneOS and GrapheneOS apps goes through internal testing followed by public Alpha channel testing and then public Beta channel testing before reaching the Stable channel. No update goes to Stable without internal, Alpha and Beta channel testing phases. We've been heavily testing our Messaging overhaul as we've been doing it and we've been making a lot more tests than we used to. It's already in quite good shape and is ready for Alpha channel testing. That's what we're referring to.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

cwillu 1mo ago

“We'll be making a new release later today with a completely overhauled user interface written in ‹whatever›” is something developers love, and users fear.

chasil 1mo ago
LineageOS keyboard and the Trebuchet launcher would be most helpful. I do miss keyboard symbols without shifting and icon packs.
- epihelix 1mo ago
  FUTO Keyboard or Heliboard (both FOSS) will give you key symbols without shifting, as will likely several other FOSS keyboards.
  - yencabulator 29d ago
    FUTO is not FOSS.
grapheneos 1mo ago
Saying it's going to be released later today means to the Alpha channel. GrapheneOS and each of our apps have Alpha, Beta and Stable channels. Every Stable channel release made it through Alpha and Beta channel testing. We don't expect the initial Messaging app release to reach the Stable channel. AOSP Messaging hasn't been actively developed since around Android 5.x and nearly no one is going to be unhappy with the changes. We're changing very little about the overall layout and structure of the app in this initial phase of the overhaul. Over the past couple months, it was carefully ported to Compose with a lot of code review and added tests. It was a lot of work and is going to look a lot more modern. It's also now possible to greatly improve the user interface in much more substantial ways than making it look modern.
HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
If you have used GrapheneOS, you know Messaging is positively ancient and bitrotting. The overhaul makes it look like the rest of the OS and uses standard material 3. Its not something to fear.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

TZubiri 1mo ago

[flagged]

mitxela 1mo ago
????????????
HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
Android and IOS encrypt your device. Most modern phones do, that is not specific to GrapheneOS and is an important, generic part of data safety that has been used for decades. GrapheneOS offers a duress PIN/password, not button, that is solely up to the user to use as they see fit. The threat model for its use is on the user to determine, and the example you are referring to was a judgement that person made. That decision is independent of GrapheneOS. Whether or not it was a blunder can only be known by the person who used it. Maybe it was a miscalculation, or maybe they were trying to hide something of importance, like protected contacts in an authoritarian country. We cannot know. Duress PIN is for when the consequences of having the data are worse than erasing the data. This is very important for journalists or citizens of an authoritarian government. The judgements these people make are not a reflection of GrapheneOS.

water-drummer 1mo ago

Funny reading those anti-LLM comments, lol

grapheneos 1mo ago
We spent months working on this and certainly didn't vibe code it. We do use LLMs but primarily for code review and boilerplate. We're now including a lot more tests partly thanks to it being less of a pain. Our quality standards are too high for current frontier LLMs to generate much we could use directly. On the other hand, their code review output is extremely useful. It can find many issues we wouldn't catch even with multiple rounds of human review. It's helping us a lot with catching issues we've repeatedly overlooked.
- water-drummer 1mo ago
  Yeah, I know you guys are using LLMs responsibly. I just found those anti-LLM crusaders funny they way they were calling it an unethical and fascist technology. As long as the code is being held to the same standards (which have been very high), it's only going to help the developers. Btw, please save yourself some energy and mental peace by ignoring these people who haven't written a single line of serious code and are only there for bandwagoning and pushing their political agendas. Love the work that you guys do that's why I'd love for you guys to be able to focus on the mission and not get distracted by them. Thanks for all the hard work!

yellowapple 1mo ago

> In the longer term, we plan to add support for RCS including support for the standard end-to-end encryption (E2EE) via Messaging Layer Security (MLS). Currently, RCS including E2EE is available on GrapheneOS via Google Messages. We want to avoid the need to use Google Messages for RCS eventually. Hell yeah. Google Messages has worked reasonably well for RCS so far (after a long and frustrating period where it didn't on T-Mobile), but having a non-Google option will be huge.

teekert 1mo ago

They are really creating a lot of buzz recently. I love it, I hope they succeed beyond just us geeks here. It is imho imperative for a fair and balanced technological society that it retains the means for truly private and secure communications. My devices help me think, and my thoughts are my own. That is a fundamental condition of human-hood. Sure we can change that, if that's what we want, but do we? If we do, do we make it a conscious choice per person? Or do we let big tech/corporatocracy dictate what it is to be human?

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]

il-b 1mo ago

Could they just do PGP over SMS, built into the default app? They have all the machinery in place to store keys securely.

hn8726 1mo ago
And send the content + PGP envelope over how many text messages? And for every single message?

vancekai 1mo ago

[dead]

ruslan 1mo ago

I would prefer to have Delta Chat like app that uses email (SMTP/IMAP) as transport instead.

Unified-Mentor 1mo ago

[dead]

butz 1mo ago

Default apps in GrapheneOS are really outdated. Especially "Gallery" where on standard "compact" device top navbar is still too small and requires very precise touch. Hopefully, little by little, all stock applications will be updated to more modern variants. I personally had plans to build some open source stock Android applications, but after whole nonsense with platform being locked down I do not see the point in investing my time, just for google to block my apps.

Cider9986 1mo ago
> I personally had plans to build some open source stock Android applications, but after whole nonsense with platform being locked down I do not see the point in investing my time, just for google to block my apps. It doesn't apply to GrapheneOS users and it doesn't affect developers who have apps on the play store. You should do it! Many users on stock android who would install apps not from the play store will have gone through the 24 hours or used ADB.
nicman23 1mo ago
i think the worst offender is dialer

zerozerotwo 1mo ago

The rcs part doesn’t make sense at all, it’s a google messaging standard. How do you do rcs without Google approval esp for things like business messaging it has to go to Google for approval eventually.