4 ms·

Their corruption is bad. (Ie. the other party) I wonder if the split would still be roughly the same if a Democrat was in power at the time of the survey. Edi

Their corruption is bad. (Ie. the other party) I wonder if the split would still be roughly the same if a Democrat was in power at the time of the survey. Edited to add: Answer seems to be in the article, as pointed out here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49571258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49571258 First diagram in the article shows uptick, but since 2010 it's been in the 70-80% range. So it seems pretty party-agnostic.

xirdstl 1mo ago
Biden was in power for the survey in 2024.
paisawalla 1mo ago
Per the second chart: Since 2024, Democrats went from being the most trusting (57%) to the most skeptical (91%), bringing all groups to within 10 points of each other on the question. This is not a "both sides" situation: Republicans dropped from 87% to 83% after their guy was elected, whereas Democrats nearly 1.5x'd their number of skeptics. There is no universal implication here IMO, this is just Democrats joining the 80-percenters, i.e. everyone
- vannevar 1mo ago
  >...Republicans dropped from 87% to 83% after their guy was elected, whereas Democrats nearly 1.5x'd their number of skeptics. This is not surprising; a big reason that Republican voters were able to justify voting for Trump and open corruption was that they were bombarded with claims that there was a "Biden crime family" in office for four years. No real evidence of that was ever uncovered, but it didn't stop Fox News and every Republican leader from constantly referring to the accusations as if they were true. One the other hand, Trump is openly accepting huge payments from foreign governments, and never even bothered to separate himself from his companies. Republicans were at 87% due to general distrust of government and the rumor of phantom corruption, while Democrats (who tend to be more trusting of government) rose to the same level only on clear evidence of real corruption. The authors don't break it out by parties, but the overall level during Trump's first term is about the same as Biden's. Since the article notes that Republican skepticism is higher in general and more consistent, this implies that Democrats' perception of corruption is much higher in Trump's second term than his first. Which makes sense, the Republican leadership was much more responsible in applying guardrails in the first term than the second. Trump is getting away with a LOT more in his second term.
  - paisawalla 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - datsci_est_2015 1mo ago
      What’s the implication here? Trump actually isn’t corrupt? Or Biden was actually secretly as corrupt as Trump is? Or more generally, the current state of affairs is somehow justifiable?
      - ozozozd 1mo ago
        As long as Biden <or insert new candidate> isn’t squeaky clean, no one on the other side can be blamed with any degree of corruption. In other words: “I don’t have to do the right thing until everyone else does the right thing.” do - it’s ok for me to be corrupt - because there is at least one person that’s also corrupt while(len(corrupt) != 0) In short, they are ok with corruption.
        nonethewiser 1mo ago
        Yeah the retort ("Well Trump is more corrupt") shows it. Both things can be true.
      - paisawalla 1mo ago
        The implication is that even if I might agree with you, we ought not be subjecting each other to incoherent rants in lieu of substantive arguments. Just don't say anything, if the only thing you have to say is They Watch Fox News. Even if you're inclined to believe the conclusions, this should recognizably be a silly rant and I don't want to live in a world where we justify sloppy arguments if we agree with the conclusions. If it triggers your defenses to the point where you can't see that this is a poor rant, it could be instructive to copy/paste it into an LLM and ask for an analysis or some counterarguments. > Trump actually isn’t corrupt? Or Biden was actually secretly as corrupt as Trump is? Incredible to me that you could think this is anywhere implied. Maybe you understand something better than I do, but I submit that it's brainrot to think my comment was somehow "Trump is not corrupt and/or Biden is equally corrupt". However, the question of whose corruption rises to the level where a person is morally suspect if they don't speak out, is one that certainly cuts conveniently, isn't it?
- nonethewiser 1mo ago
  Yes. Democrats at 57% 2 years ago is the abberation.
nonethewiser 1mo ago
>Their corruption is bad. (Ie. the other party) Republicans were at 88 and went to 83. Down a tiny bit but pretty flat overall. The Democrats went from 57->91.

xirdstl 1mo ago

Biden was in power for the survey in 2024.

paisawalla 1mo ago

Per the second chart: Since 2024, Democrats went from being the most trusting (57%) to the most skeptical (91%), bringing all groups to within 10 points of each other on the question. This is not a "both sides" situation: Republicans dropped from 87% to 83% after their guy was elected, whereas Democrats nearly 1.5x'd their number of skeptics. There is no universal implication here IMO, this is just Democrats joining the 80-percenters, i.e. everyone

vannevar 1mo ago
>...Republicans dropped from 87% to 83% after their guy was elected, whereas Democrats nearly 1.5x'd their number of skeptics. This is not surprising; a big reason that Republican voters were able to justify voting for Trump and open corruption was that they were bombarded with claims that there was a "Biden crime family" in office for four years. No real evidence of that was ever uncovered, but it didn't stop Fox News and every Republican leader from constantly referring to the accusations as if they were true. One the other hand, Trump is openly accepting huge payments from foreign governments, and never even bothered to separate himself from his companies. Republicans were at 87% due to general distrust of government and the rumor of phantom corruption, while Democrats (who tend to be more trusting of government) rose to the same level only on clear evidence of real corruption. The authors don't break it out by parties, but the overall level during Trump's first term is about the same as Biden's. Since the article notes that Republican skepticism is higher in general and more consistent, this implies that Democrats' perception of corruption is much higher in Trump's second term than his first. Which makes sense, the Republican leadership was much more responsible in applying guardrails in the first term than the second. Trump is getting away with a LOT more in his second term.
- paisawalla 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - datsci_est_2015 1mo ago
    What’s the implication here? Trump actually isn’t corrupt? Or Biden was actually secretly as corrupt as Trump is? Or more generally, the current state of affairs is somehow justifiable?
    - ozozozd 1mo ago
      As long as Biden <or insert new candidate> isn’t squeaky clean, no one on the other side can be blamed with any degree of corruption. In other words: “I don’t have to do the right thing until everyone else does the right thing.” do - it’s ok for me to be corrupt - because there is at least one person that’s also corrupt while(len(corrupt) != 0) In short, they are ok with corruption.
      - nonethewiser 1mo ago
        Yeah the retort ("Well Trump is more corrupt") shows it. Both things can be true.
    - paisawalla 1mo ago
      The implication is that even if I might agree with you, we ought not be subjecting each other to incoherent rants in lieu of substantive arguments. Just don't say anything, if the only thing you have to say is They Watch Fox News. Even if you're inclined to believe the conclusions, this should recognizably be a silly rant and I don't want to live in a world where we justify sloppy arguments if we agree with the conclusions. If it triggers your defenses to the point where you can't see that this is a poor rant, it could be instructive to copy/paste it into an LLM and ask for an analysis or some counterarguments. > Trump actually isn’t corrupt? Or Biden was actually secretly as corrupt as Trump is? Incredible to me that you could think this is anywhere implied. Maybe you understand something better than I do, but I submit that it's brainrot to think my comment was somehow "Trump is not corrupt and/or Biden is equally corrupt". However, the question of whose corruption rises to the level where a person is morally suspect if they don't speak out, is one that certainly cuts conveniently, isn't it?
nonethewiser 1mo ago
Yes. Democrats at 57% 2 years ago is the abberation.

nonethewiser 1mo ago

>Their corruption is bad. (Ie. the other party) Republicans were at 88 and went to 83. Down a tiny bit but pretty flat overall. The Democrats went from 57->91.