3 ms·

When do we stop this instinctive response of "well you can still do it in an only slightly convoluted way" everytime a corporate does something bad. Windows ad

by devsda 25d ago

When do we stop this instinctive response of "well you can still do it in an only slightly convoluted way" everytime a corporate does something bad. Windows added ads - well you can disable them, if you don't like it. Chrome brought up mv3 - well you can still use mv2, it is only optional. Reddit locking subreddits behind login wall - well there's always old.reddit Android moving everything to playstore - there's always FDroid. How many of these are still true and for how long? If someone's country is a dictatorship, it doesn't help to tell them that there are 100 other democratic countries, just move. Not everyone can emigrate or want to emigrate for any number of reasons.

cnowacek 25d ago
While I agree with your point, conflating the effort to install apps outside of the Google Play Store with the effort to immigrate to a different country is wildly incomparable.
Forgeties79 25d ago
Actually old reddit doesn’t work that way anymore lol you must login or use crappy reddit, which is exactly to your point though! They will just keep making it harder and harder until you simply can’t, but by then so a few people will be “opting in/out” that they’ll argue nobody wants the ability to toggle that anyway.
- qbit42 25d ago
  I think the old reddit redirect extension gets around this somehow, that has worked for me lately (occasionally with some toggling of the extension). Although maybe it's best to just use less reddit tbh
  - Forgeties79 25d ago
    I resigned as a mod after the API shitshow and am so glad I did. It’s a terrible site. I wind up there every month or two from friends or looking something up, it’s hard to see how much of a cesspool it is when you’re so invested in it and up close.
  - maybewhenthesun 25d ago
    Not anymore :-( But it's a good thing, actually because: - when reddit is good it's way to addictive - reddit has become nearly as bad as most other social media sites So if they force me to use an account, I'll finally be able to kick the habit ;-)
    - megagpt3 25d ago
      Reddit has been akin to Facebook since around 2022.
      - maybewhenthesun 25d ago
        Make that 'since forever'. But there used to be a lot of insightful discussion inbetween the facebook-like parts. (Maybe it was the same on facebook, I wouldn't know because I never had a facebook account and you can't access the site without it.) But I deleted my account (or at least randomized my password) somewhere in 2016 or so, so apparently 10 years ago I decided I wanted out. But I'm still reading it at least as much as HN. So fingers crossed they screw up badly enough this time :-D
    - account42 24d ago
      There is a cookie that you can set to still get the old interface without login on www.reddit.com (but NOT on old.reddit.com) which some of the deshittify-redditi extensions have added. But I wouldn't expect that to stick around - it's just there for now to soften the outrage.
      - maybewhenthesun 18d ago
        sssst
  - KingMob 25d ago
    You don't always need an extension to use old.reddit.com, it's an actual setting if you're logged in. The real problem is that old.reddit.com and its ecosystem are all becoming worse and worse. Just off the top of my head, things like image galleries, message notifications, RemindMe bot, RES, /r/random, etc all have various problems and breakage.
- kelvinjps10 25d ago
  I use redlib https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib and librediret instead.
ApolloFortyNine 25d ago
Imo if you compare what Google does to the one other mobile OS manufacturer with any users, claiming Google should be fined is something like the cop pulling you over for going 8 over the speed limit while Apple is doing triple digits and just ran two people over. 'Why not both' is an argument, but clear as day what Apple does is worse. There's no alternative.
- dmos62 25d ago
  > 'Why not both' is an argument, but clear as day what Apple does is worse. There's no alternative. 'Just start somewhere, anywhere, please' is another argument.
  - izacus 25d ago
    So let's start with the worse one.
    - account42 24d ago
      No, that will only lead to bickering which one is worse and nothing getting done. Start with anyone. If you determine A is breaking the law then you go after A and fire anyone who pulls any "buuuut what about B" distractions.
- Xirdus 25d ago
  Your reasoning shows why it's so much harder to fix a duopoly than to fix a monopoly. If there was no Apple then Google would get its comeuppance. If there was no Google then Apple would get its comeuppance. But because we have both Google and Apple, we can't punish either. The mathematician in me wants to solve the problem of the duopoly by first reducing it to a monopoly, which we have known solutions for.
  - superxpro12 25d ago
    oligopolies are just as bad.
brainwad 25d ago
The "convoluted" way is/was the default in the absence of a monopolist app store. Before centralised app stores, users downloaded or bought boxed software ad-hoc and installed it on their computers from installation archives, just like you can install apps from APK files on Android. If you banned Google from preloading their app store, isn't that what we would revert to?
- 1718627440 25d ago
  On my Nokia (featurephone) you don't need to install apps, you just run them.
- devsda 25d ago
  The goal is not to prevent a Google monopoly. The goal is to have competition to prevent Google abusing its monopoly to lock down users. There is Samsung Galaxy store.There is Xiaomi store.There was Amazon app store which failed to gain traction as it was not pre-installed but had decent number of apps. This is even before we get to open stores like F-droid. Now their viability is a question in the long term, if Google has complete discretion over what is allowed.
  - megagpt3 25d ago
    Google doesn't have complete discretion. On Samsung phones, Samsung's discretion overrides Google's. On Xiaomi phones, Xiaomi's discretion overrides Google's.
    - schubidubiduba 24d ago
      Not really. Google sets strict boundaries for smartphone brands on what they can do software-wise. For instance, iirc, shipping the phone primarily with a non-Google alternative ROM means you won't get any play services on them, even if you want to have a secondary version with a standard Google ROM. Google has essentially full control. Because they own security updates. Because banking apps already now often do not work without Google services. Etc. Etc. It is a monopoly (regarding Android app developers), and is increasingly exploiting that to cash in.
2Gkashmiri 25d ago
https://srinagar.nic.in/notice/immediate-suspension-of-virtual-private-network-vpn-services-in-district-srinagar-imposition-of-restrictions-under-section-163-of-the-bharatiya-nagarik-suraksha-sanhitabnss/ https://srinagar.nic.in/notice/immediate-suspension-of-virtu... They banned "VPN" https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-vpn-ban-in-kashmir-jk-police-acts-against-over-100-vpn-users/articleshow/126311786.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-vpn-ban-in-k... Then came arrests. https://www.medianama.com/2026/01/223-jammu-kashmir-vpn-ban-search-phones/ https://www.medianama.com/2026/01/223-jammu-kashmir-vpn-ban-... Street level checks. Police literally stop you roadside and check your phone for VPN. This is happening in 2026. RIGHT NOW. I talked to some officials and "oh you know what happened in Delhi blasts? They were using signal. If we had only caught them before".
ImPostingOnHN 25d ago
sometimes people share a problem and want solutions or workarounds other times people share a problem and just want to feel validated ("yeah that sucks dude") it sounds like you wanted the 2nd but got the 1st
- devsda 25d ago
  There are solutions and then there are workarounds. what we see are workarounds, not solutions. Even in software, you can only patch so many workarounds without fixing the issue. Eventually fatigue sets in or we run out of workarounds and just publish the bug as "expected behavior" don't we? I don't want the workarounds to distract from the need for a proper fix.
neves 25d ago
The amount of time I've spend to turn off news and ads in Windows is absurd. Just to be turned on in a new update. And the menacing messages of installed something from F-Droid. My mother would never do it. Even my programmers colleagues usually don't do it.
- fc417fc802 25d ago
  I actually think the menacing messages are on point but should apply to play store apps as well. Most of the people I know are incredibly cavalier about running mystery software from unfamiliar developers on by far the most sensitive device that they own.
1718627440 25d ago
> Reddit locking subreddits behind login wall - well there's always old.reddit old.reddit is now locked behind login as well.
- JacobKfromIRC 25d ago
  When did this start? I didn't even realize at first because I use Redlib.
  - petu 25d ago
    few weeks ago
    - account42 24d ago
      It was a staged rollout so there was no one start date for everyone.
- xatax 25d ago
  There's a workaround if you want it enough. I noticed that reddit was setting a use_redesign (I might have the name slightly wrong) cookie when I explicitly visited the old.reddit domain, and this caused old reddit to persist. Since I do occasionally want to use the new site for image posts and the like, I set up a bookmarklet to set/unset that cookie on command. I've since found that setting this cookie bypasses the old.reddit login page, allowing me to view the old site while not logged in. No idea how long that will last though.
  - 1718627440 25d ago
    To what value do I need to set the cookie?
    - xatax 24d ago
      I just checked and the cookie is actually redesign_optout. The value doesn't seem to matter - I just checked with value xyz and it worked. Here's the bookmarklet I use: javascript:(function(){const old_or_new = prompt("[O]ld or [N]ew?", "New");if (old_or_new.charAt(0).toUpperCase() == 'N') {document.cookie = 'redesign_optout=; Path=/; Domain=.reddit.com; Expires=Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:01 GMT;';} else {document.cookie = 'redesign_optout=true; Path=/; Domain=.reddit.com';}window.location.reload()})();
dr_kiszonka 25d ago
old.reddit now requires a login :/
deaton 25d ago
old.reddit is also locked behind a login wall too, now!
zx8080 24d ago
The frog is boiling slowly. Google is breaking fdroid in less than a month left for sideloading: https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registrat...
- mastermage 24d ago
  Honestly still one of the main reasons why I am actualy considering switching to iPhone. Atleast with Apple I know what to expect. And as a bonus I get amazing vertical integration and probably the best aftermarket there is.
  - account42 24d ago
    That's like moving to a gulag to get away from Guantanamo.
    - applfanboysbgon 24d ago
      It's an upscale gulag, though! Very classy. Sleek white architecture, futuristic even.
    - deleted 24d ago
      [deleted]
JohnTHaller 24d ago
macOS slowly ramping up the friction to run unsigned/unapproved apps over the years

by devsda 25d ago

cnowacek 25d ago

While I agree with your point, conflating the effort to install apps outside of the Google Play Store with the effort to immigrate to a different country is wildly incomparable.

Forgeties79 25d ago

Actually old reddit doesn’t work that way anymore lol you must login or use crappy reddit, which is exactly to your point though! They will just keep making it harder and harder until you simply can’t, but by then so a few people will be “opting in/out” that they’ll argue nobody wants the ability to toggle that anyway.

qbit42 25d ago
I think the old reddit redirect extension gets around this somehow, that has worked for me lately (occasionally with some toggling of the extension). Although maybe it's best to just use less reddit tbh
- Forgeties79 25d ago
  I resigned as a mod after the API shitshow and am so glad I did. It’s a terrible site. I wind up there every month or two from friends or looking something up, it’s hard to see how much of a cesspool it is when you’re so invested in it and up close.
- maybewhenthesun 25d ago
  Not anymore :-( But it's a good thing, actually because: - when reddit is good it's way to addictive - reddit has become nearly as bad as most other social media sites So if they force me to use an account, I'll finally be able to kick the habit ;-)
  - megagpt3 25d ago
    Reddit has been akin to Facebook since around 2022.
    - maybewhenthesun 25d ago
      Make that 'since forever'. But there used to be a lot of insightful discussion inbetween the facebook-like parts. (Maybe it was the same on facebook, I wouldn't know because I never had a facebook account and you can't access the site without it.) But I deleted my account (or at least randomized my password) somewhere in 2016 or so, so apparently 10 years ago I decided I wanted out. But I'm still reading it at least as much as HN. So fingers crossed they screw up badly enough this time :-D
  - account42 24d ago
    There is a cookie that you can set to still get the old interface without login on www.reddit.com (but NOT on old.reddit.com) which some of the deshittify-redditi extensions have added. But I wouldn't expect that to stick around - it's just there for now to soften the outrage.
    - maybewhenthesun 18d ago
      sssst
- KingMob 25d ago
  You don't always need an extension to use old.reddit.com, it's an actual setting if you're logged in. The real problem is that old.reddit.com and its ecosystem are all becoming worse and worse. Just off the top of my head, things like image galleries, message notifications, RemindMe bot, RES, /r/random, etc all have various problems and breakage.
kelvinjps10 25d ago
I use redlib https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib and librediret instead.

ApolloFortyNine 25d ago

Imo if you compare what Google does to the one other mobile OS manufacturer with any users, claiming Google should be fined is something like the cop pulling you over for going 8 over the speed limit while Apple is doing triple digits and just ran two people over. 'Why not both' is an argument, but clear as day what Apple does is worse. There's no alternative.

dmos62 25d ago
> 'Why not both' is an argument, but clear as day what Apple does is worse. There's no alternative. 'Just start somewhere, anywhere, please' is another argument.
- izacus 25d ago
  So let's start with the worse one.
  - account42 24d ago
    No, that will only lead to bickering which one is worse and nothing getting done. Start with anyone. If you determine A is breaking the law then you go after A and fire anyone who pulls any "buuuut what about B" distractions.
Xirdus 25d ago
Your reasoning shows why it's so much harder to fix a duopoly than to fix a monopoly. If there was no Apple then Google would get its comeuppance. If there was no Google then Apple would get its comeuppance. But because we have both Google and Apple, we can't punish either. The mathematician in me wants to solve the problem of the duopoly by first reducing it to a monopoly, which we have known solutions for.
- superxpro12 25d ago
  oligopolies are just as bad.

brainwad 25d ago

The "convoluted" way is/was the default in the absence of a monopolist app store. Before centralised app stores, users downloaded or bought boxed software ad-hoc and installed it on their computers from installation archives, just like you can install apps from APK files on Android. If you banned Google from preloading their app store, isn't that what we would revert to?

1718627440 25d ago
On my Nokia (featurephone) you don't need to install apps, you just run them.
devsda 25d ago
The goal is not to prevent a Google monopoly. The goal is to have competition to prevent Google abusing its monopoly to lock down users. There is Samsung Galaxy store.There is Xiaomi store.There was Amazon app store which failed to gain traction as it was not pre-installed but had decent number of apps. This is even before we get to open stores like F-droid. Now their viability is a question in the long term, if Google has complete discretion over what is allowed.
- megagpt3 25d ago
  Google doesn't have complete discretion. On Samsung phones, Samsung's discretion overrides Google's. On Xiaomi phones, Xiaomi's discretion overrides Google's.
  - schubidubiduba 24d ago
    Not really. Google sets strict boundaries for smartphone brands on what they can do software-wise. For instance, iirc, shipping the phone primarily with a non-Google alternative ROM means you won't get any play services on them, even if you want to have a secondary version with a standard Google ROM. Google has essentially full control. Because they own security updates. Because banking apps already now often do not work without Google services. Etc. Etc. It is a monopoly (regarding Android app developers), and is increasingly exploiting that to cash in.

2Gkashmiri 25d ago

https://srinagar.nic.in/notice/immediate-suspension-of-virtual-private-network-vpn-services-in-district-srinagar-imposition-of-restrictions-under-section-163-of-the-bharatiya-nagarik-suraksha-sanhitabnss/ https://srinagar.nic.in/notice/immediate-suspension-of-virtu... They banned "VPN" https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-vpn-ban-in-kashmir-jk-police-acts-against-over-100-vpn-users/articleshow/126311786.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-vpn-ban-in-k... Then came arrests. https://www.medianama.com/2026/01/223-jammu-kashmir-vpn-ban-search-phones/ https://www.medianama.com/2026/01/223-jammu-kashmir-vpn-ban-... Street level checks. Police literally stop you roadside and check your phone for VPN. This is happening in 2026. RIGHT NOW. I talked to some officials and "oh you know what happened in Delhi blasts? They were using signal. If we had only caught them before".

ImPostingOnHN 25d ago

sometimes people share a problem and want solutions or workarounds other times people share a problem and just want to feel validated ("yeah that sucks dude") it sounds like you wanted the 2nd but got the 1st

devsda 25d ago
There are solutions and then there are workarounds. what we see are workarounds, not solutions. Even in software, you can only patch so many workarounds without fixing the issue. Eventually fatigue sets in or we run out of workarounds and just publish the bug as "expected behavior" don't we? I don't want the workarounds to distract from the need for a proper fix.

neves 25d ago

The amount of time I've spend to turn off news and ads in Windows is absurd. Just to be turned on in a new update. And the menacing messages of installed something from F-Droid. My mother would never do it. Even my programmers colleagues usually don't do it.

fc417fc802 25d ago
I actually think the menacing messages are on point but should apply to play store apps as well. Most of the people I know are incredibly cavalier about running mystery software from unfamiliar developers on by far the most sensitive device that they own.

1718627440 25d ago

> Reddit locking subreddits behind login wall - well there's always old.reddit old.reddit is now locked behind login as well.

JacobKfromIRC 25d ago
When did this start? I didn't even realize at first because I use Redlib.
- petu 25d ago
  few weeks ago
  - account42 24d ago
    It was a staged rollout so there was no one start date for everyone.
xatax 25d ago
There's a workaround if you want it enough. I noticed that reddit was setting a use_redesign (I might have the name slightly wrong) cookie when I explicitly visited the old.reddit domain, and this caused old reddit to persist. Since I do occasionally want to use the new site for image posts and the like, I set up a bookmarklet to set/unset that cookie on command. I've since found that setting this cookie bypasses the old.reddit login page, allowing me to view the old site while not logged in. No idea how long that will last though.
- 1718627440 25d ago
  To what value do I need to set the cookie?
  - xatax 24d ago
    I just checked and the cookie is actually redesign_optout. The value doesn't seem to matter - I just checked with value xyz and it worked. Here's the bookmarklet I use: javascript:(function(){const old_or_new = prompt("[O]ld or [N]ew?", "New");if (old_or_new.charAt(0).toUpperCase() == 'N') {document.cookie = 'redesign_optout=; Path=/; Domain=.reddit.com; Expires=Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:01 GMT;';} else {document.cookie = 'redesign_optout=true; Path=/; Domain=.reddit.com';}window.location.reload()})();

dr_kiszonka 25d ago

old.reddit now requires a login :/

deaton 25d ago

old.reddit is also locked behind a login wall too, now!

zx8080 24d ago

The frog is boiling slowly. Google is breaking fdroid in less than a month left for sideloading: https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registrat...

mastermage 24d ago
Honestly still one of the main reasons why I am actualy considering switching to iPhone. Atleast with Apple I know what to expect. And as a bonus I get amazing vertical integration and probably the best aftermarket there is.
- account42 24d ago
  That's like moving to a gulag to get away from Guantanamo.
  - applfanboysbgon 24d ago
    It's an upscale gulag, though! Very classy. Sleek white architecture, futuristic even.
  - deleted 24d ago
    [deleted]

JohnTHaller 24d ago

macOS slowly ramping up the friction to run unsigned/unapproved apps over the years