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Mega-kudos to the author for chipping away at the wall around Apple’s garden. I have had a iPhone for 15 years, and I have only ever been able to back it up wi

Mega-kudos to the author for chipping away at the wall around Apple’s garden. I have had a iPhone for 15 years, and I have only ever been able to back it up with iTunes on windows (as I will never buy a Mac). Apple’s refusal to provide interoperability borders on criminal. I wish there was a better option.

abcd_f 1mo ago
Have a look at https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice and iOS backup projects that are based on it.
- voakbasda 1mo ago
  Over the years, I have tried to make that solution work, but it never ever went smoothly. Maybe it’s time to try it again, but it’s an arms race from what I remember. Apple just keeps changing things; if you’re on the latest iOS version, it was unlikely to work. Has that changed?
- dadoum 1mo ago
  Or idevice [0] (the one I prefer), or go-ios [1], or pymobiledevice3 [2] [0]: https://github.com/jkcoxson/idevice https://github.com/jkcoxson/idevice [1]: https://github.com/danielpaulus/go-ios https://github.com/danielpaulus/go-ios [2]: https://github.com/doronz88/pymobiledevice3 https://github.com/doronz88/pymobiledevice3
LinuxIsntVeryGo 1mo ago
[flagged]
- cassianoleal 1mo ago
  They don't have to add support. All they need is APIs and documentation.
  - LinuxIsntVeryGo 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - cassianoleal 1mo ago
      No it's not.
      - jonhohle 1mo ago
        Do you think it costs nothing to provide stable APIs and write documentation?
        cassianoleal 1mo ago
        No. Why would I think that?
- voakbasda 1mo ago
  Because they provide a platform. Platforms are not normal products. Once a product becomes a platform, the rules should change to force interoperability. This should be true no matter the product or technology.
- SadTrombone 1mo ago
  Nobody's asking Apple to provide anything. We just want them to stop sending cease and desists to developers who do provide said thing.
sneak 1mo ago
You could stop using iMessage and iCloud.
- Rohansi 1mo ago
  Green bubbles, WhatsApp, Signal, etc. are not an option for a lot of people. I don't get it either.
  - agoodusername63 1mo ago
    Because techies on average aren't socially popular enough to get anybody to make any effort to msg them on a better platform.
    - nvme0n1p1 1mo ago
      Speak for yourself
      - agoodusername63 1mo ago
        Ok! I don't use iMessage because people I want to talk to are happy to install a new app to do so. :)
    - jorvi 1mo ago
      … WhatsApp is the main messenger globally and it is the 'odd' people that use iMessage (and Signal, Telegram, etc.)
      - Rohansi 1mo ago
        Statistically, sure, but it's not evenly distributed across regions and cultures. People can find themselves in social circles where iMessage is the norm and be pressured into using it because others are unwilling to install a second messaging app.
        1mo ago
timcobb 1mo ago
Pixel is nice, in my opinion better than iOS, and more open for now
- KetoManx64 1mo ago
  Especially with GrapheneOS
Danox 1mo ago
Doesn’t interoperability work two(Windows)-three(Linux) ways?
rpdillon 1mo ago
I'm shouting into the wind here a fair amount, but I just discovered DeltaChat and ArcaneChat. ArcaneChat is available only on Android, but DeltaChat is available on iOS and uses chatmail relays. My family has found it to be super useful and effective. I don't think it's viable to convert everybody in my social circle, but I've been very happy with the apps and attachments, notifications, and general performance. https://chatmail.at/ https://chatmail.at/ I'm considering running my own chatmail relay, although I haven't tried that yet.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  DeltaChat was much more useful when it worked with any email server and didn't need its own special kind of server. We have plenty of messengers that use their own servers, like matrix, XMPP, and simplex.
  - SahAssar 1mo ago
    Didn't know they stopped working with regular email servers, that is a huge letdown. I'm guessing this was quite recent? That was their one big plus and while I avoided it because of PGP, this means that it really has no upside over XMPP for me.
  - rpdillon 1mo ago
    I appreciate the simplicity of hosting ChatMail versus a regular mail server. It's simpler, lighter weight, and better suited for the chat use case. It's basically the ideal messaging platform for my needs.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      It defeats the selling point of DeltaChat. You may as well use XMPP or Matrix.
      - rpdillon 1mo ago
        I've used both. Neither are as good. Your reply also completely ignores my point about the ease of hosting the infrastructure yourself. Prosody isn't too bad, but hosting Matrix is a nightmare -- as much as I admire what the Matrix crew is trying to do, the architecture is unwieldy and always has been.
slashdave 1mo ago
You mean the same Apple, who supports RCS, and historically supported open protocols? As to iMessage, think carefully about the architecture, and maybe you can imagine why it is Apple only.
- conception 1mo ago
  As a fanboy I can admit rcs came with them kicking and screaming against it.
  - stevehawk 1mo ago
    didn't it take legal threats from the EU to ultimately make it happen?
    - ihjbtvjkdidie 1mo ago
      Yeah, and I’ve yet to make any use of this feature. Nice to have, but let’s not pretend RCS is that big of a deal in any way.
- alt227 1mo ago
  You are obviously very new to the tech world if you dont recall the many years of customer lobbying, and Apple refusing outright for a long time until they were strongarmed into it by law. You cant then turn around and claim they are all sunshine and roses because they support open protocols when they were forced to begrudgingly.
  - slashdave 1mo ago
    Uh huh. And since you are so tech savey I am sure you understand the legitimate reasons? Because it seems you just want to complain about Apple.
ihjbtvjkdidie 1mo ago
[flagged]
inventor7777 1mo ago
Since you are dead-set against getting a Mac, why don't you move to Android? It seems like a better fit as Apple's whole thing is about continuity between their own devices, which obviously will not work for you.
- callc 1mo ago
  > their own devices Sure! Apple can do whatever they want with their devices. But when they sell them to people, it’s no longer theirs. People are (IMHO rightfully) not happy with a general computing device not being open. Societies are pushing back against this practice through legal means, which is good! The best part is if people want to stay inside whatever ecosystem, they can! It can be opt-in to enable developer mode to do what you can already do on any desktop PC. If you want to lock down gran and gramps iphone (or PC for that matter), you can! Make an admin account and have them use an account with less privileges. We can have the best of all worlds. An integrated ecosystem. Security. User computing rights.
  - alt227 1mo ago
    The best thing you can do is vote with your wallet, and buy a phone that is more open.
- voakbasda 1mo ago
  > why don't you move to Android? Because I trust Google even less than Apple (and a de-Googled phone would not be useful to me).
  - alt227 1mo ago
    You dont trust Google enough to use their devices, but you use Windows?
    - mysteria 1mo ago
      I'm not the OP but I pretty much run a Windows VM solely for iTunes backups and to run a few Windows-only apps. I don't trust Windows much and that VM is firewalled off from the rest of the network. I use Linux exclusively for my computers but for my phone I have no choice but to use either Apple or Android because of banking/government/etc. apps that don't work on custom roms. Yes there are workarounds but I've gotten app breakage or account suspensions for that. And yeah I trust Apple more than Google in terms of privacy so I end up choosing the lesser of two evils. Otherwise I self-host everything and stay off the cloud whenever possible.

abcd_f 1mo ago

Have a look at https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice https://github.com/libimobiledevice/libimobiledevice and iOS backup projects that are based on it.

voakbasda 1mo ago
Over the years, I have tried to make that solution work, but it never ever went smoothly. Maybe it’s time to try it again, but it’s an arms race from what I remember. Apple just keeps changing things; if you’re on the latest iOS version, it was unlikely to work. Has that changed?
dadoum 1mo ago
Or idevice [0] (the one I prefer), or go-ios [1], or pymobiledevice3 [2] [0]: https://github.com/jkcoxson/idevice https://github.com/jkcoxson/idevice [1]: https://github.com/danielpaulus/go-ios https://github.com/danielpaulus/go-ios [2]: https://github.com/doronz88/pymobiledevice3 https://github.com/doronz88/pymobiledevice3

LinuxIsntVeryGo 1mo ago

[flagged]

cassianoleal 1mo ago
They don't have to add support. All they need is APIs and documentation.
- LinuxIsntVeryGo 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cassianoleal 1mo ago
    No it's not.
    - jonhohle 1mo ago
      Do you think it costs nothing to provide stable APIs and write documentation?
      - cassianoleal 1mo ago
        No. Why would I think that?
voakbasda 1mo ago
Because they provide a platform. Platforms are not normal products. Once a product becomes a platform, the rules should change to force interoperability. This should be true no matter the product or technology.
SadTrombone 1mo ago
Nobody's asking Apple to provide anything. We just want them to stop sending cease and desists to developers who do provide said thing.

sneak 1mo ago

You could stop using iMessage and iCloud.

Rohansi 1mo ago
Green bubbles, WhatsApp, Signal, etc. are not an option for a lot of people. I don't get it either.
- agoodusername63 1mo ago
  Because techies on average aren't socially popular enough to get anybody to make any effort to msg them on a better platform.
  - nvme0n1p1 1mo ago
    Speak for yourself
    - agoodusername63 1mo ago
      Ok! I don't use iMessage because people I want to talk to are happy to install a new app to do so. :)
  - jorvi 1mo ago
    … WhatsApp is the main messenger globally and it is the 'odd' people that use iMessage (and Signal, Telegram, etc.)
    - Rohansi 1mo ago
      Statistically, sure, but it's not evenly distributed across regions and cultures. People can find themselves in social circles where iMessage is the norm and be pressured into using it because others are unwilling to install a second messaging app.
      - 1mo ago

timcobb 1mo ago

Pixel is nice, in my opinion better than iOS, and more open for now

KetoManx64 1mo ago
Especially with GrapheneOS

Danox 1mo ago

Doesn’t interoperability work two(Windows)-three(Linux) ways?

rpdillon 1mo ago

I'm shouting into the wind here a fair amount, but I just discovered DeltaChat and ArcaneChat. ArcaneChat is available only on Android, but DeltaChat is available on iOS and uses chatmail relays. My family has found it to be super useful and effective. I don't think it's viable to convert everybody in my social circle, but I've been very happy with the apps and attachments, notifications, and general performance. https://chatmail.at/ https://chatmail.at/ I'm considering running my own chatmail relay, although I haven't tried that yet.

inigyou 1mo ago
DeltaChat was much more useful when it worked with any email server and didn't need its own special kind of server. We have plenty of messengers that use their own servers, like matrix, XMPP, and simplex.
- SahAssar 1mo ago
  Didn't know they stopped working with regular email servers, that is a huge letdown. I'm guessing this was quite recent? That was their one big plus and while I avoided it because of PGP, this means that it really has no upside over XMPP for me.
- rpdillon 1mo ago
  I appreciate the simplicity of hosting ChatMail versus a regular mail server. It's simpler, lighter weight, and better suited for the chat use case. It's basically the ideal messaging platform for my needs.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    It defeats the selling point of DeltaChat. You may as well use XMPP or Matrix.
    - rpdillon 1mo ago
      I've used both. Neither are as good. Your reply also completely ignores my point about the ease of hosting the infrastructure yourself. Prosody isn't too bad, but hosting Matrix is a nightmare -- as much as I admire what the Matrix crew is trying to do, the architecture is unwieldy and always has been.

slashdave 1mo ago

You mean the same Apple, who supports RCS, and historically supported open protocols? As to iMessage, think carefully about the architecture, and maybe you can imagine why it is Apple only.

conception 1mo ago
As a fanboy I can admit rcs came with them kicking and screaming against it.
- stevehawk 1mo ago
  didn't it take legal threats from the EU to ultimately make it happen?
  - ihjbtvjkdidie 1mo ago
    Yeah, and I’ve yet to make any use of this feature. Nice to have, but let’s not pretend RCS is that big of a deal in any way.
alt227 1mo ago
You are obviously very new to the tech world if you dont recall the many years of customer lobbying, and Apple refusing outright for a long time until they were strongarmed into it by law. You cant then turn around and claim they are all sunshine and roses because they support open protocols when they were forced to begrudgingly.
- slashdave 1mo ago
  Uh huh. And since you are so tech savey I am sure you understand the legitimate reasons? Because it seems you just want to complain about Apple.

ihjbtvjkdidie 1mo ago

[flagged]

inventor7777 1mo ago

Since you are dead-set against getting a Mac, why don't you move to Android? It seems like a better fit as Apple's whole thing is about continuity between their own devices, which obviously will not work for you.

callc 1mo ago
> their own devices Sure! Apple can do whatever they want with their devices. But when they sell them to people, it’s no longer theirs. People are (IMHO rightfully) not happy with a general computing device not being open. Societies are pushing back against this practice through legal means, which is good! The best part is if people want to stay inside whatever ecosystem, they can! It can be opt-in to enable developer mode to do what you can already do on any desktop PC. If you want to lock down gran and gramps iphone (or PC for that matter), you can! Make an admin account and have them use an account with less privileges. We can have the best of all worlds. An integrated ecosystem. Security. User computing rights.
- alt227 1mo ago
  The best thing you can do is vote with your wallet, and buy a phone that is more open.
voakbasda 1mo ago
> why don't you move to Android? Because I trust Google even less than Apple (and a de-Googled phone would not be useful to me).
- alt227 1mo ago
  You dont trust Google enough to use their devices, but you use Windows?
  - mysteria 1mo ago
    I'm not the OP but I pretty much run a Windows VM solely for iTunes backups and to run a few Windows-only apps. I don't trust Windows much and that VM is firewalled off from the rest of the network. I use Linux exclusively for my computers but for my phone I have no choice but to use either Apple or Android because of banking/government/etc. apps that don't work on custom roms. Yes there are workarounds but I've gotten app breakage or account suspensions for that. And yeah I trust Apple more than Google in terms of privacy so I end up choosing the lesser of two evils. Otherwise I self-host everything and stay off the cloud whenever possible.