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First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power in

by 0xy 3mo ago

First they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).

jordanb 3mo ago
I'm trying to build a torment nexus and these negative ninnies complained that it used up all the electricity, so I made a machine that turns breathable air into toxic smoke to power the nexus and they don't like that ether!
- 0xy 3mo ago
  US emissions are down dramatically per capita since 2000. From 2024 to 2026, green energy sources were 96.6% of new capacity coming online.
  - jordanb 3mo ago
    The data canters are using gas turbines and diesel generators.
  - tzs 3mo ago
    How is that relevant? (1) The data centers under discussion aren't using green energy sources. (2) The overall emission numbers aren't really relevant to the people who live near large emitters. It is the local numbers that affect their health.
triceratops 3mo ago
You're saying multiple wrong ways to do a thing is evidence that the thing is undesirable? Why don't you want an auto repair shop in the house next door, and why won't you let them pour old engine oil on your lawn? Are you anti-car-repair? All your "noise and pollution" complaints sound like psy ops to me, paid for by the Chinese EV industry. ^ that's what you sound like.
mixdup 3mo ago
The environmental impacts of how that power is generated is not a sudden or new concern, it was a concern even if the power was delivered via the grid or not and the fact that the power is generated on site or whatever does not alleviate that concern
m4ck_ 3mo ago
>The problem was never power or water Correct. The problem isn't just data centers or power or water, it's that left unchecked these greedy people will risk the power grid, drain rivers/reservoirs/aquifers, and destroy our natural environment (and cities) with pollution because it's more profitable than doing things the right way. I think more than anything we want responsible, friendly neighbors who are mindful of the impact they have in the areas where they operate. They're callous, reckless, have no concern for anything but their money. And "self-funded" isn't even true, the tax breaks and negative externalities of these data centers will be paid by the people (see: xAI and Memphis.) inb4 i'm a chinese operative because I mentioned water. Get bent, I think grass farmers in the desert should be forced to get real jobs instead of exporting our water to China/Saudi Arabia as cattle feed. And people who farm real crops should be forced to convert to less water-intensive methods or shut down.
- 0xy 3mo ago
  >And people who farm real crops should be forced to convert to less water-intensive methods or shut down. Taking this to its logical conclusion, you want to export the negative externalities of a theoretical water shortage to poor countries who will move to replace the food gap caused by farmers shutting down.
kasey_junk 3mo ago
Aluminum smelters have run their own power generation for ages and don’t get to skip epa regulations.
- 0xy 3mo ago
  Aluminium isn't the same level of national security importance as AI is.
  - kasey_junk 3mo ago
    That’s a take for sure…
  - tzs 3mo ago
    US national security does not need thousands of new AI data centers built in a short time frame.
tzs 3mo ago
It is not a new problem. Look at Musk's Tennessee data centers to see the problems with off-grid data centers that don't have good pollution controls. Second, in many places power is a problem with AI data centers that do want grid power. I don't think you realize just how many new AI data center projects there are and how much more power they use than a normal data center. Combined with the short timeline these projects want they need grid expansion far beyond what anyone had in their long term grid planning.
- tptacek 2mo ago
  The trouble I have with this argument is that you can look at almost anything Musk does and make an argument like this. He's discredited AI, data centers, cars, space exploration, biotechnology, you name it. Yes, Musk's data centers are apparently abominable. I'll show up to rally for a statute preventing Musk from building more data centers. But I don't think the evidence is good that most data centers are like this, and I do think that rapid grid expansion --- which is going to happen one way or the other, the only question is where --- is an opportunity blue-staters like us should be seizing to modernize the grid and impose some controls.
xboxnolifes 3mo ago
Can you explain to me how that means its a Chinese spy op?
tptacek 2mo ago
Andy Masley, who's more responsible than anyone else for debunking the idea that data centers abuse water resources, has been a broken record for the past month on Twitter saying that he doesn't buy into this "Chinese spy op" stuff at all. It doesn't even make sense as an operation. It's not like the data centers aren't going to get built; they'll just get built in different parts of the country. Why would China care?

by 0xy 3mo ago

jordanb 3mo ago

I'm trying to build a torment nexus and these negative ninnies complained that it used up all the electricity, so I made a machine that turns breathable air into toxic smoke to power the nexus and they don't like that ether!

0xy 3mo ago
US emissions are down dramatically per capita since 2000. From 2024 to 2026, green energy sources were 96.6% of new capacity coming online.
- jordanb 3mo ago
  The data canters are using gas turbines and diesel generators.
- tzs 3mo ago
  How is that relevant? (1) The data centers under discussion aren't using green energy sources. (2) The overall emission numbers aren't really relevant to the people who live near large emitters. It is the local numbers that affect their health.

triceratops 3mo ago

You're saying multiple wrong ways to do a thing is evidence that the thing is undesirable? Why don't you want an auto repair shop in the house next door, and why won't you let them pour old engine oil on your lawn? Are you anti-car-repair? All your "noise and pollution" complaints sound like psy ops to me, paid for by the Chinese EV industry. ^ that's what you sound like.

mixdup 3mo ago

The environmental impacts of how that power is generated is not a sudden or new concern, it was a concern even if the power was delivered via the grid or not and the fact that the power is generated on site or whatever does not alleviate that concern

m4ck_ 3mo ago

>The problem was never power or water Correct. The problem isn't just data centers or power or water, it's that left unchecked these greedy people will risk the power grid, drain rivers/reservoirs/aquifers, and destroy our natural environment (and cities) with pollution because it's more profitable than doing things the right way. I think more than anything we want responsible, friendly neighbors who are mindful of the impact they have in the areas where they operate. They're callous, reckless, have no concern for anything but their money. And "self-funded" isn't even true, the tax breaks and negative externalities of these data centers will be paid by the people (see: xAI and Memphis.) inb4 i'm a chinese operative because I mentioned water. Get bent, I think grass farmers in the desert should be forced to get real jobs instead of exporting our water to China/Saudi Arabia as cattle feed. And people who farm real crops should be forced to convert to less water-intensive methods or shut down.

0xy 3mo ago
>And people who farm real crops should be forced to convert to less water-intensive methods or shut down. Taking this to its logical conclusion, you want to export the negative externalities of a theoretical water shortage to poor countries who will move to replace the food gap caused by farmers shutting down.

kasey_junk 3mo ago

Aluminum smelters have run their own power generation for ages and don’t get to skip epa regulations.

0xy 3mo ago
Aluminium isn't the same level of national security importance as AI is.
- kasey_junk 3mo ago
  That’s a take for sure…
- tzs 3mo ago
  US national security does not need thousands of new AI data centers built in a short time frame.

tzs 3mo ago

It is not a new problem. Look at Musk's Tennessee data centers to see the problems with off-grid data centers that don't have good pollution controls. Second, in many places power is a problem with AI data centers that do want grid power. I don't think you realize just how many new AI data center projects there are and how much more power they use than a normal data center. Combined with the short timeline these projects want they need grid expansion far beyond what anyone had in their long term grid planning.

tptacek 2mo ago
The trouble I have with this argument is that you can look at almost anything Musk does and make an argument like this. He's discredited AI, data centers, cars, space exploration, biotechnology, you name it. Yes, Musk's data centers are apparently abominable. I'll show up to rally for a statute preventing Musk from building more data centers. But I don't think the evidence is good that most data centers are like this, and I do think that rapid grid expansion --- which is going to happen one way or the other, the only question is where --- is an opportunity blue-staters like us should be seizing to modernize the grid and impose some controls.

xboxnolifes 3mo ago

Can you explain to me how that means its a Chinese spy op?

tptacek 2mo ago

Andy Masley, who's more responsible than anyone else for debunking the idea that data centers abuse water resources, has been a broken record for the past month on Twitter saying that he doesn't buy into this "Chinese spy op" stuff at all. It doesn't even make sense as an operation. It's not like the data centers aren't going to get built; they'll just get built in different parts of the country. Why would China care?