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An investigation into the state of corvid–human relations
- lgas 2mo agoYes.
- SamuraiLion 2mo agoI mean; they cause no harm unless you are a farmer or something, do they?
- vjvjvjvjghv 2mo agoThey poop on people they don't like. I used to work at an office where you had to walk under some trees from the parking lot to the entrance. There was one guy that got pooped on at least once a week. Then he used an umbrella which they pooped on too. No idea what he had done to them but they clearly didn't like him :-) Another thing I saw at a park: The crows surrounded a swan. One would pick at the swan's butt. When the swan turned around, another would do it. It looked like they bullied the swan for entertainment.
- the_af 2mo ago> They poop on people they don't like That's not so bad! That alone makes them better than pigeons, which simply poop on everything (sidewalks, cars, people, other pigeons) regardless of any personal animosity or lack thereof.
- Terr_ 2mo ago> It looked like they bullied the swan for entertainment. On the subject of cruelty in animals: > '[...] humanity may come to terms with the dwarf, the troll and even the orc, terrifying though all these may have proved to be at times, and you know why this is, Drumknott?' > The secretary carefully folded the duster he had been using and looked at the ceiling. 'I would venture to suggest, my lord, that in their violence we recognize ourselves?' > 'Oh, well done, Drumknott, I shall make a cynic of you yet! Predators respect other predators, do they not? They may perhaps even respect the prey: the lion may lie down with the lamb, even if only the lion is likely to get up again, but the lion will not lie down with the rat. [...]' -- Snuff by Terry Pratchet
- soupspaces 2mo agoWas he consistent with his timing? Perhaps so were the birds with their necessities. Or his travel route intersected a convenient location for them. More birds, too, makes a collective vendetta unlikely. Birds tend to be indiscriminate when the world is their toilet.
- Avicebron 2mo agoThey are, until a murder takes up residency in a tree outside your apartment in Emeryvile. Then they are cool roommates you have to get away from else you lose your sanity.
- dylan604 2mo agoOr is it the roommate that always brings his friends over totally disregarding your personal space? Same result though
- forbiddenvoid 2mo agoThe park across from our apartment in Cupertino was the morning gathering point for every crow in the Bay Area. They showed up at about 3:30-4:00a every day. It was as loud and obnoxious as you might otherwise imagine. Now, in Seattle, we just have a nice family of three crows that hang out on our balcony on a daily basis. I much prefer this arrangement.
- e40 2mo agoIt may seem like every crow from the Bay is there, but that’s very unlikely. Their territory isn’t very large, typically a 100 acres. Gatherings are very noisy affairs, and that amplifies the numbers.
- brcmthrowaway 2mo agoIn Australia, they attack random people.
- kraken_cult 2mo agoThis is just crow slander, they're magpies. So corvids, but not crows. And the people are walking under their nests.
- patall 2mo agoAustralian magpies aren't corvids either
- kraken_cult 2mo agoI stand corrected, they are not corvids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_magpie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_magpie
- patall 2mo agoAustralian magpies are not really related to the crow familie (which includes magpie). And, from my experience, don't atteack random people but those that got to close to their nest. Whatever their definition of close is.
- strken 2mo agoI believe crows can be more aggressive than ravens, maybe because they hang out in bigger groups rather than pairs. I haven't heard about it being limited to Australia, though. We only have a couple of species of crow and if you're on the east coast then you're pretty much guaranteed to be seeing ravens. The crows are in the centre and the west coast, in the dry parts.
- petcat 2mo agoThe crows around my house are generally cool unless I do something they don't like and then they'll remember my face for all of eternity and mob me whenever I am outside.
- dylan604 2mo agoThere's a crow that sits on top of our fence and yells at my cat. The cat is of no threat to the crow. Not speaking crow, I'm not sure if the yelling is angry or just talking loudly. There's no flapping of wings or extending to look big. He just stands there a very obviously crowing at the cat. The cat in no way feels threatened and just lays there. Not sure if his inner monologue is "ugh, this guy" or not, but that's what it looks like.
- kylecazar 2mo agoThey can pass grudges against individuals down to their offspring. Could be looking at generational animosity if you really displease them.
- legastenigga 2mo ago[dead]
- the_af 2mo agoOut of curiosity, what can you do to upset a crow so much? Shoo them? (Where I live there are no crows, please excuse my ignorance. Only common pigeons, as filthy as they are dumb, and they don't seem to hold a grudge, or think much of humans... or at all).
- assemblyman 2mo agoYou do you but I love both crows and pigeons. Pigeons are awesome once you get to know them and they don't spread disease which is a common misconception - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240620-why-do-people-persecute-city-pigeons https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240620-why-do-people-pe... From the article: "One study found that, between 1941 and 2004, there were just 207 reports of pathogens transmitted from pigeons to humans – anywhere in the world. In all, there were 13 recorded deaths. The true number may be higher, but it would have to be off by several orders of magnitude to compete with the scale of infections from other domesticated animals – particularly some of those with more favourable reputations."
- roughly 2mo agoA friend is someone you’ll spend time around given other options. If you’ve spent any time getting to know crows (or jays, or any other corvids), it’s quite obvious this is the case. I had a scrub jay who’d perch on my foot while I read in the morning. I considered him a friend, and by that standard, he me.
- lelandfe 2mo agoHow folksy. Give that jay a hat and we got a Disney movie cooking.
- roughly 2mo agoTbh the jay would be more likely to eat the hat than wear it. He also was extremely clear that the bounds of our friendship did not include me touching him at all, but he’d usually just peck my finger, not actually fly away.
- HappMacDonald 2mo agoI have been lead to believe that blue scrub jays have a lot of different vocalizations but the only sounds I've caught out of them over the past 15ish years of paying attention have been the raucous shouting shrieks they seem so fond of doing. I perceive this as their species equivalent of cursing xD
- smurda 2mo agoCrows can remember a dangerous person and tell their friends about it. From "Social learning spreads knowledge about dangerous humans among American crows" (https://faculty.washington.edu/wirsinga/Cornell2011.pdf https://faculty.washington.edu/wirsinga/Cornell2011.pdf) We exposed wild crows to a novel ‘dangerous face’ by wearing a unique mask as we trapped, banded and released 7 –15 birds at five study sites near Seattle, WA, USA. An immediate scolding response to the dangerous mask after trapping by previously captured crows demonstrates individual learning, while an immediate response by crows that were not captured probably represents conditioning to the trapping scene by the mob of birds that assembled during the capture. Later recognition of dangerous masks by lone crows that were never captured is consistent with horizontal social learning. Independent scolding by young crows, whose parents had conditioned them to scold the dangerous mask, demonstrates vertical social learning.
- tescreal 2mo agoWhat does scolding look like in crows? Sincere question.
- noelwelsh 2mo agoProbably sounds like more than looks like. If it's what my cat gets, it's crows posting up on trees and roofs and talking shit at you.
- tescreal 2mo agoUsually I find them demanding me give them food. Shame on me for forgetting snacks!
- oasisbob 2mo agoExtreme example, but it's harsh, noisy and they'll sometimes aggressively swoop down at you. https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg
- cineticdaffodil 2mo ago[dead]
- drop_star 2mo agoWe have problems here with crows destroying lawns to dig up grubs. A local sod farmer told me they shoot one and leave it dead in the field. All the other crows show up for a crow funeral and when they leave they dont come back. They remember the crow that died there and treat the area as dangerous.
- squidbeak 2mo agoHow dare their need to feed spoil a lawn's appearance...
- drop_star 2mo agoWell its a sod farmer so its his livelyhood. Im pretty sure if crows were eating your pay cheque or the food out your kids mouth youd shoot them too
- squidbeak 2mo agoAny excuse to kill something, eh? Tell me, in the free market where a competitor was eating into your paycheck, or threatening the fast food supply to your children, would you head over to their HQ packing heat?
- b112 2mo agoWhile there are times crows need to be dealt with (see the horrors of Chatham, Ont + crows), those grubs eat the roots of grasses. So you can let the crows have your grubs, or the grubs your grass.
- mikestew 2mo agoWe have problems here with crows destroying lawns to dig up grubs. If you're in the PNW, those invasive grubs were going to destroy your lawn anyway. More information: https://invasivespecies.wa.gov/priorityspecies/european-chafer/ https://invasivespecies.wa.gov/priorityspecies/european-chaf...
- 2mo ago
- tyjen 2mo agoA murder of crows lives about 200 m away and whenever a predatory bird enters their perimeter, they swarm it until vacates the area. Everything from osprey, hawks, vultures, and eagles, they leave Great Blue Herons alone though. I don't want to go out of my way to befriend them, because they may harass people who are not me on the property.
- Lerc 2mo agoWe have quite a few birds around our house and it has been quite gratifying to see how much they accept your presence after a while. While making coffee yesterday morning, there were three tauhau hopping around in the tree outside the window, less than a meter away, unconcerned. If I go outside they'll keep to about 2 meters. When I'm working in the garage, a piwakawaka often comes in to watch me. If I'm digging in the garden there are a few (I'm going to guess starlings) that watch me digging in the garden close enough I'm surprised they don't land on me. As soon as I stop digging, they're in the dirt rummaging for what I might have turned up. Collectively they have all decided that I'm not out to get them so just go about their business. Except for the piwakawaka, which does seem to go out of its way to just watch me make things. It possibly helps that I have a dog that will not tolerate a cat on the property and seems to believe that birds don't exist.
- card_zero 2mo agoFor anybody else also doing image searches for these birds, it's tauhou. Seemingly these colonized New Zealand in 1832.
- Lerc 2mo agoNoted. Also, they are so tiny. It's not until you see them making a sparrow look large that it really hits you.
- bee_rider 2mo agoFrom a bird’s point of view, large mammals must be interesting. You are just doing a little digging in the garden, but it’s an absolutely tremendous amount of earth you’ve moved compared to their ability to dig. I’m always curious about animals’ perception of us. I think they don’t really have the concepts of things like doors, lids, etc, as constructed devices that are made to be manipulated. I wonder if they think we’re very clever at getting into things. And does the dog worry every day that we won’t find food?
- xg15 2mo agoWhat I find interesting to think about is how much more routine viewing things from high above must be for birds than it is for us. Looking at a city on Google Maps with satellite mode on was already a revealing experience when it came out. Now imagine a live view of that with everything moving, as part of your regular environment. I wonder if smarter birds (such as corvids) might have developed some sort of understanding of the large-scale organization of our cities, or how road and railway networks function. Not because they somehow figured out human civilization but because they literally see those things right in front of them every day.
- mikestew 2mo agoI don't know the answer, generally speaking, but we've got a pair that pop onto the back fence every morning waiting for their peanuts. I think they're multigenerational, as I have reasons to suspect that the "original" Mr. Peanut has passed on. Anyway, the bold one will come sit with me in the front yard. When I walk the dog, they'll follow me for a bit, flying a few feet off the ground right in front of me, I assume to make their presence known and get a piece of dog biscuit (which I oblige). They have never gotten obnoxious about it by crowing at me, just silently hanging around: "if you could spare a bit of dog food, kind sir..." Friends? It's probably transactional from the crow's POV, but OTOH they hang out on the fence and just sit sometimes even if there are peanuts on the ground. I enjoy seeing them, though. I will say, though, that after many pounds of peanuts not a single one of the little bastards has ever brought me a present, as is advertised. :-)
- e40 2mo agoWe have crows we feed. They sometimes will come to the back door and caw really softly. Clearly it’s a “hey, I’m here, can I have sone peanuts?” It feels really nice when they do that.
- jzemeocala 2mo agoYou should have started by putting some money on the ground when they aren't there....and then when they come you pick up the money and leave the peanuts.....do this a few times on a daily schedule and then "miss" a day or two so they associate having money on the ground with getting peanuts....then the profit comes
- mlmonkey 2mo agoI like the fact that they are so ... observant. A specific crow (I recognize him due to the missing feathers around his collar) will spend a while sitting on a tree outside my window, observing me for no reason. I do feed them generally by leaving peanuts in a specific area in the backyard early in the morning, and I'm sure this one partakes in the feast; but I have never rewarded his presence in any form, and yet there he is, in the middle of the day, just hanging out on the branch of the leafless tree, just sitting there, observing me. If I turn around and make eye contact, he often flies away. But I can see him in the reflection on my ipad's screen, and if I don't turn around and make eye contact, he will stay there for a while. It is fun interacting with "smart" creatures who have their own personalities and active social lives.
- dinfinity 2mo agoIsn't he just checking/waiting for the food to come out? If he's the first to it, he gets the best haul.
- mlmonkey 2mo agoThe food comes out early in the morning (8AM). This guy I often find watching me around noon. So the food has long been consumed and forgotten.
- devilbunny 2mo agoAs a natural night owl who works at a job that starts at 6:30, I wish I could still całl 8 “early”.
- spike021 2mo agosounds like my dog. he knows when to sit and stare at me to wait for his usual food routine and, occasionally, treats. once he realizes that no it isn't time for either, he goes away.
- 9dev 2mo agoMine will just sit somewhere else where he thinks I surely must see him now, and lick his lips when I look at him just to make a point. Sometimes I wonder if he’s considering hitting me with his bowl because I’m obviously too stupid to understand his super obvious question
- sethev 2mo agoCrows are fascinating creatures. My wife read that they will chase hawks and eagles away, so she started putting food out for the crows near the tree where they gather (we have chickens and ducks that we don't want the hawks near). Now they bring trinkets as gifts and leave them near the tree. We also had a crow in the past that would make barking noises when it saw our dogs and freak them out. I'm convinced it was messing with them.
- e40 2mo agoI have seen many times a group of crows harassing a hawk. They are unrelenting. OTOH, I have seen a hawk eating a crow. It’s a delicate balance of power.
- Aboutplants 2mo agoWe started feeding a small group of crows that hung out in our neighborhood but after a while decided to back off to only occasionally because their constant presence kept other types of birds away from our backyard. They are very talkative and I often banter back and forth with them saying hello when they occasionally visit now and have taken to showing up when I take walks to squawk at me and i assume to say hello. Very fascinating creatures I also tell my young daughter to always be nice to them, because they will pass information not only among themselves but also down generations.
- fmajid 2mo agoThey forgot to mention the most famous corvids in mythology, Odin’s familiars Huginn and Muninn
- Frieren 2mo ago> Even when humans have a friendship—or something that feels like it—with a crow, the relationship happens on the wild animal’s terms. They visit when they want to, and they may disappear from our life suddenly. It goes also the other way around. I do not leave a note to my neighborhood crows when I move town. I think that it has nothing to do in which terms it happens but the communication barrier. It is very possible that the crows signal that they are leaving for good but we are just missing the message. And my reason to not leave them a note is because they cant read, if they could I would.
- annoyingnoob 2mo agoThere has been a flock of crows in my parents neighborhood for decades. They command a large area and push out many other birds, especially birds of prey. They are noisy and annoying. When I visit mom with my dog, they swoop at my dog. Honestly feeling like the neighborhood would be better without them.
- ggm 2mo agothe article gets my up vote for at least admitting some bird scientists think a lot of this may be projection (one I am also fond of making) and that crows are a lot less into us than we might think.
- littlekey 2mo agoThis is cool. Makes me wonder what could be done to foster the friendship aside from food. Are there any sorts of games/activities one would could play with a corvid solely for mutual entertainment? And would the bird think of it in those terms?
- jibal 2mo ago"seems" does a lot of work here. But rational analysis tells us that, whatever the relationship is, it's not friendship.
- moron4hire 2mo agoPerhaps new levels of transcendant coexistence could be achieved through the use of bird qualudes.
- NoItsDanger 2mo agoI feed them all the time and they recognize me. They love chicken strips which feels wrong. But they like what they like. They may become the primary intelligent species of the planet some day - since the evil LLM will never be able to predict their communications and will not be able to wipe them out
- tug2024 2mo ago[dead]
- veunes 2mo ago[flagged]
- Terretta 2mo agoThis author has their own AM radio Americana narrative style with peculiar flourishes repeated throughout, but it's so refreshing compared to LLMs it's worth slowing down and noticing how they play with the language as the crow does a shiny wire, resulting in far higher perplexity at each bend in phrase than the machines seem capable of no matter the prompt.