4 ms·

in japan the homeless people clean up after themselves and don’t destroy everything what’s the difference here?

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
justin66 1mo ago
My first thought is, I'm not certain their homeless are different in their behavior, but based on what little I know, I'm rather certain their non-homeless are. I'd expect disruption or damage to a public space of the kind that sparked this discussion to be dealt with swiftly as a high priority.
- TonyStr 1mo ago
  I don't know much about this, but when I visited Japan, I walked aimlessly in the outskirts of Tokyo (Sumida city) until I ended up in a homeless area. They had used old palettes and tarps to build square houses with functioning doors, and it was surprisingly clean. Their shoes were neatly lined up against the walls, they used trash bags and the ground was clean. It was quite a culture shock, because it was cleaner than non-homeless streets at home.
  - mrguyorama 1mo ago
    You can't build that kind of shanty town in the US because the cops will come and steal all your shit. Otherwise it's exactly what homeless people in the US want to be able to do. Often times, these "sweeps" just trash everything. Imagine if you were trying to put your life back together. You got an Obamaphone so you can call state assistance programs and email job prospects. You have some basic clothes, maybe some food, maybe some few possessions you have saved from your past life. Then the cops come and take all of it and throw it away. Gee, I wonder why it's so hard for people to escape homelessness in the US? Imagine trying to live any life in a world that rejected your right to property?
gfosco 1mo ago
They are Japanese.
annzabelle 1mo ago
Japan will lock people up for a long period of time if they show the sort of anti-social behavior that the most visible homeless people in North America are famous for.
- Brian_K_White 1mo ago
  The trains run on time sure enough.
- cortesoft 1mo ago
  The US “locks people up” at a much higher rate, and for longer, than Japan does. About 1% of the adult population is in jail in the United States, and it’s about 0.03% of the population in Japan. The US puts people in jail at 30x the rate Japan does. It is not because the US doesn’t lock people up enough.
  - annzabelle 1mo ago
    Japan has one of the highest numbers of psychiatric beds in the world. That's what I'm referring to. If you're experiencing psychosis in public in Japan, you will be removed from public spaces. This is not true in the US.
    - mikelitoris 1mo ago
      Thank “One flew over cuckoos nest” for that.
  - anon48293 1mo ago
    Yes it is. It’s because they let them out again.
    - cortesoft 1mo ago
      That is 1% of adults being CURRENTLY locked up, not people who have ever been locked up in their life. That means the stat already factors in how long they are in for.
ajmurmann 1mo ago
How many of their homeless are addicted to drugs or nectary ill? It seems in the US almost all visible homeless fall into at least one of those groups. Fentanyl and meth seems to be largely a North America issue. I previously was curious how other countries dealt with it. The only country I found that had previously had a meth issue was Estonia or Latvia (not sure anymore). It apparently was really bad for years. They fixed it by finding the single meth lab. Not a solution that's viable for us. No idea what Japan does with its homeless but my money is that it's something like forced admission which isn't gonna fly in the US.
- dspillett 1mo ago
  > Fentanyl and meth seems to be largely a North America issue. I previously was curious how other countries dealt with it. It isn't a particular drug: if it isn't Fentanyl or meth it will be something else, whatever is available. In the UK it is a mixed bag, but for many the problem substance is alcohol which isn't controllable the way other drugs are because of it being legal and so commonly used in a non (or at least less) problematic manner. The problem hits from two directions: many homeless people start the path to addiction by needing an escape and that escape method spirals and takes control, and a lot (not the majority by any means, but a sizable segment) end up destitute because of spiralling substance problems to start with. Of course many homeless do not have a substance problem, or at least not one that would be insurmountable on its own. Financial issues (that wouldn't go away if you strip the cost of the illicit substances out, accommodation is not cheap and suitable jobs are not readily available, etc) and mental illness (separating this from drug issues is complex: "self medication" is of course a major complicating matter) are probably far more common. > curious how other countries dealt with it Not well, for the most part. From an outsiders PoV (sat in my small but comfortable flat with the paid mortgage and no drug issues, though the mental health thing needs work) it doesn't seem to be a bad as it has been in the past (maybe in part due to efforts to make it less visible rather than fixing the issues?) but is growing again and I suspect will do so more rapidly if AI does what it promises to the job market.
  - ajmurmann 1mo ago
    I was under the impression that the more recent type of meth leads to symptoms indistinguishabl from schizophrenia that last many month of abstinence. Source: https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-the-least-of-us/ https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-t...
TurkishPoptart 1mo ago
[flagged]
- 48484848n 1mo ago
  [dead]
- tomhow 1mo ago
  We've banned this account. We've asked you multiple times to observe the guidelines, and a comment like this, shitposting or whatever else you're trying to do here, is obviously a step too far. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us (hn@ycombinator.com) to discuss ways of demonstrating your intention to participate earnestly in future.
  - willbebanned 1mo ago
    [dead]
singsingsing323 1mo ago
[dead]
talon8635 1mo ago
That’s my exact point. Our culture in the west breeds isolation and antisocial chaos in a not insignificant percent of the population. Part of it os undoubtedly the vast differences between Japanese and American culture

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

My first thought is, I'm not certain their homeless are different in their behavior, but based on what little I know, I'm rather certain their non-homeless are. I'd expect disruption or damage to a public space of the kind that sparked this discussion to be dealt with swiftly as a high priority.

TonyStr 1mo ago
I don't know much about this, but when I visited Japan, I walked aimlessly in the outskirts of Tokyo (Sumida city) until I ended up in a homeless area. They had used old palettes and tarps to build square houses with functioning doors, and it was surprisingly clean. Their shoes were neatly lined up against the walls, they used trash bags and the ground was clean. It was quite a culture shock, because it was cleaner than non-homeless streets at home.
- mrguyorama 1mo ago
  You can't build that kind of shanty town in the US because the cops will come and steal all your shit. Otherwise it's exactly what homeless people in the US want to be able to do. Often times, these "sweeps" just trash everything. Imagine if you were trying to put your life back together. You got an Obamaphone so you can call state assistance programs and email job prospects. You have some basic clothes, maybe some food, maybe some few possessions you have saved from your past life. Then the cops come and take all of it and throw it away. Gee, I wonder why it's so hard for people to escape homelessness in the US? Imagine trying to live any life in a world that rejected your right to property?

gfosco 1mo ago

They are Japanese.

annzabelle 1mo ago

Japan will lock people up for a long period of time if they show the sort of anti-social behavior that the most visible homeless people in North America are famous for.

Brian_K_White 1mo ago
The trains run on time sure enough.
cortesoft 1mo ago
The US “locks people up” at a much higher rate, and for longer, than Japan does. About 1% of the adult population is in jail in the United States, and it’s about 0.03% of the population in Japan. The US puts people in jail at 30x the rate Japan does. It is not because the US doesn’t lock people up enough.
- annzabelle 1mo ago
  Japan has one of the highest numbers of psychiatric beds in the world. That's what I'm referring to. If you're experiencing psychosis in public in Japan, you will be removed from public spaces. This is not true in the US.
  - mikelitoris 1mo ago
    Thank “One flew over cuckoos nest” for that.
- anon48293 1mo ago
  Yes it is. It’s because they let them out again.
  - cortesoft 1mo ago
    That is 1% of adults being CURRENTLY locked up, not people who have ever been locked up in their life. That means the stat already factors in how long they are in for.

ajmurmann 1mo ago

How many of their homeless are addicted to drugs or nectary ill? It seems in the US almost all visible homeless fall into at least one of those groups. Fentanyl and meth seems to be largely a North America issue. I previously was curious how other countries dealt with it. The only country I found that had previously had a meth issue was Estonia or Latvia (not sure anymore). It apparently was really bad for years. They fixed it by finding the single meth lab. Not a solution that's viable for us. No idea what Japan does with its homeless but my money is that it's something like forced admission which isn't gonna fly in the US.

dspillett 1mo ago
> Fentanyl and meth seems to be largely a North America issue. I previously was curious how other countries dealt with it. It isn't a particular drug: if it isn't Fentanyl or meth it will be something else, whatever is available. In the UK it is a mixed bag, but for many the problem substance is alcohol which isn't controllable the way other drugs are because of it being legal and so commonly used in a non (or at least less) problematic manner. The problem hits from two directions: many homeless people start the path to addiction by needing an escape and that escape method spirals and takes control, and a lot (not the majority by any means, but a sizable segment) end up destitute because of spiralling substance problems to start with. Of course many homeless do not have a substance problem, or at least not one that would be insurmountable on its own. Financial issues (that wouldn't go away if you strip the cost of the illicit substances out, accommodation is not cheap and suitable jobs are not readily available, etc) and mental illness (separating this from drug issues is complex: "self medication" is of course a major complicating matter) are probably far more common. > curious how other countries dealt with it Not well, for the most part. From an outsiders PoV (sat in my small but comfortable flat with the paid mortgage and no drug issues, though the mental health thing needs work) it doesn't seem to be a bad as it has been in the past (maybe in part due to efforts to make it less visible rather than fixing the issues?) but is growing again and I suspect will do so more rapidly if AI does what it promises to the job market.
- ajmurmann 1mo ago
  I was under the impression that the more recent type of meth leads to symptoms indistinguishabl from schizophrenia that last many month of abstinence. Source: https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-the-least-of-us/ https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-t...

TurkishPoptart 1mo ago

[flagged]

48484848n 1mo ago
[dead]
tomhow 1mo ago
We've banned this account. We've asked you multiple times to observe the guidelines, and a comment like this, shitposting or whatever else you're trying to do here, is obviously a step too far. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us (hn@ycombinator.com) to discuss ways of demonstrating your intention to participate earnestly in future.
- willbebanned 1mo ago
  [dead]

singsingsing323 1mo ago

[dead]

talon8635 1mo ago

That’s my exact point. Our culture in the west breeds isolation and antisocial chaos in a not insignificant percent of the population. Part of it os undoubtedly the vast differences between Japanese and American culture