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> (from their perspective) extremely wealthy blow-ins I’ve had some friends do the digital nomad lifestyle. One thing that stood out to me was how many of them

> (from their perspective) extremely wealthy blow-ins I’ve had some friends do the digital nomad lifestyle. One thing that stood out to me was how many of them were not really doing that well financially. The stereotype is someone with a $100K per year job living like a king in a place where the median wages are 1/10th of that Most of the people in their digital nomad groups were actually not full-time employed. They were trying to do contract work and then stretching out their earnings between jobs so they could travel. Living in these cheap locations was almost required to allow them to work the way they wanted. There were people who were lucky enough to have the six figure remote jobs at companies that were okay with them not being available during normal business hours. Those jobs were at high risk of getting cut at the next economic down cycle. It reminded me of how much the indie hacker scene all fantasizes about being like the levels.io guy making crazy money selling simple services to his giant follower list, but most of them can barely get a couple dozen sales for their SaaS if they’re lucky. Everyone thinks of levels.io, but few people think of the long tail of people making less than they’d get at any full time job.

throwaway13337 2mo ago
I was just the sort you’re talking about. I did contract work so I could stay traveling and lived on money I made in previous full time jobs. It was a very nice way to live compared to the 9 to 5 even though I made less money. Having enough money to live the way you want is all you need. Hostels are fun. But in the free time I had, I did end up making a SaaS that set me up very comfortably for the rest of my life. Cynicism will keep you in your 9 to 5.
- maest 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwaway13337 2mo ago
    I guess my implied advice is to live the way you want even if it means making less money than you could? Yeah. I’ll own that. Believe it or not, you're on a website where a lot of the readers build stuff. And quite a few find success.
    - KennyBlanken 2mo ago
      [flagged]
      - CalRobert 2mo ago
        It’s not a throwaway
    - brabel 2mo ago
      > And quite a few find success. I guess the question is what percentage do. And what percentage tries and go completely broke before going back to a 9 to 5 job.
      - ashirviskas 2mo ago
        I'm 30, I am trying to achieve what the other person described. I'm not there yet, but I feel like I might be in 8-36 months timeframe. Ask me then, you'll get at least one more data point that's not just survivorship bias.
        brabel 2mo ago
        At 30 you have nothing to lose or even if you do you have decades ahead to turn things around. Despite what I said I wish you and other young people luck, enjoy your life doing what you love before you get old and grumpy.
  - cultofmetatron 2mo ago
    > This must be a troll. Its funny cuz what he describes is basically my story as well. I lived to travel and took on substandard contracts to get by for awhile. eventually met my cofounders and now I'm living comfortably on a descent salary with a saas that I built. Hopefully I can keep this going indefinitly.
- KennyBlanken 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - seibelj 2mo ago
    [dead]
- lofties 2mo ago
  Can you link to the SaaS that set you up very comfortable for the rest of your life?
- a96 2mo ago
  Yes. Salary is compensation for sacrifice. Many (most, hopefully, but interestingly not all) would rather have less sacrifice than more compensation. Not spending your life doing what someone else wants leaves more life to do what you want with.
- a57721 2mo ago
  > Having enough money to live the way you want is all you need. Hostels are fun. Hostels are not fun, unless you are in your early 20s.
  - retired 2mo ago
    In my late 30s now, I don’t even do hotels with a shared toilet anymore. I need my own private room and my own private en-suite bathroom at minimum.
    - lotsofpulp 2mo ago
      My rule is maximum 2 people per first toilet, or else it isn’t a vacation.
  - coldtea 2mo ago
    Hostels are fun if you have that disposition. If you don't, even 5 star hotels can be miserable.
    - nephihaha 2mo ago
      Up to a point. Hostels are very irritating now in that there is always someone on their phone at all hours lighting up the entire room. Also some noise issues. I find quieter hostels much better. When I was over in Ireland, the ones in Belfast and Dublin were awful, and in county Galway. I found wonderful ones in Co. Donegal, Armagh and Limerick.
      - hippietrail 2mo ago
        Depends on the hostel and the guests. It's a few months since I had a roommate on their phone at night. I've had noise issues in hotels and I've had quiet hostels. Totally orthogonal.
  - brailsafe 2mo ago
    Meh, although I'm conscious of the possibility I might be seen as a creepy old guy in his mid-thirties, I still find that hostels can be fun. I don't necessarily want to go out partying with 20 year olds, but an occasional few drinks with strangers and the ability to re-allocate funds to something more interesting than a hotel is very valuable. Travelling is already expensive as hell, I'm going to do it the way I want, and there's usually outgoing people within the same approx age range that want to do similarly. That said, much like hotels, some hostels do suck; bedbugs are not chill, location is important, cost is important, vibe is important. I found that hostels that were more suited to families trying to save money were the least appealing as someone with just a spouse and a type B personality. I hate paying for hotels so much that I visit my hometown less than I would otherwise if the city had a decent hostel.
- Aurornis 2mo ago
  > But in the free time I had, I did end up making a SaaS that set me up very comfortably for the rest of my life. There were examples like this of people in the groups hitting on something and making enough money to retire (if they managed their money right) It was the rare case. The end result for most of them was moving back home and taking a normal job when hopping between hostels and digital nomad group homes stopped being fun and none of their business ideas got traction.
alephnerd 2mo ago
> One thing that stood out to me was how many of them were not really doing that well financially. The stereotype is someone with a $100K per year job living like a king in a place where the median wages are 1/10th of that The thing is, having a Western passport and earning $10k-20k a year (untaxed) in countries where the median household incomes (ie. 2 working adults) are at best comparable to that is living like a king comparatively speaking. There's a reason western expats are looked down on derisively by locals across ASEAN and the only ASEAN state with a semi-functional democracy (Malaysia) is also one of the least budget tourist friendly - the middle class and above look at tay ba lo with disgust as losers, and the lower class only look up to them for the opportunity to get a more powerful visa. The high rate of "passport bros" also doesn't help. It's like that scene from Futurama when they all accidently age backwards: "Oh, so this is the famous Fry. What is he, like, the biggest loser on the surface, so he has to hang out in the sewer? Fry: They're on to me!" The reality is, most kinds of tourism only lead to the development of extractive economic institutions at the expense of human capital development and higher value economic sectors that would benefit from that. And in the case of this specific village and town in Andalusia, this will only exacerbate anti-tourism politics which has helped both Vox and Podemos because rural Andalusia is absolutely not equipped to support a sudden influx of transitory high income outsiders.
- someguydave 2mo ago
  Sounds like you have a low estimation of European people friend
- bluecalm 2mo ago
  >>The reality is, most kinds of tourism only lead to the development of extractive economic institutions at the expense of human capital development and higher value economic sectors that would benefit from that. Those are dying towns. Tourism/digital nomads are their lifeline. There is no "human capital development" to speak of. Young people there do everything they can do migrate to bigger cities. Have you ever been to the region? Many of those towns look like ghost towns. The main industry they have is greenhouse farming which actually drains the scarce resource the population need (water) while causing a lot of plastic pollution and mainly employing migrants paying them peanuts.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
999900000999 2mo ago
I’m on an extended vacation right now. Realistically I’ll take 4 to 8 weeks off while looking for work back in the US. I had a revelation a few years back. Taking real vacations is absolutely necessary. If I can work 12 months at 70 to 80$ an hour I generally can afford 8 to 12 weeks off as long as I as I’m not in the US or Europe. When I think out of the box, I do imagine working on my own ideas during my travels. Met a brilliant 23 year old last year who speaks 3 languages, and programs in Python and Java I could probably hire him at 10$ an hour. Vs some 23 year old American who will demand 45$ an hour and tell me Python sucks. But then I wake up, back to looking for my next contract.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- fluoridation 2mo ago
  You could get more bang for your buck. I'm currently freelancing at ~$50/hr and for every sixtyish hours I can live for two months, so I could afford to work half the year at a leisurely pace and not work the rest of the year, or work one month full tilt and then take five months off. This is while living comfortably, not having to be frugal or anything.
- tuesdaynight 2mo ago
  He must be really poor or not well-versed in the IT market if you can pay him 10$/h
  - 999900000999 2mo ago
    Lower cost of living country, he has an IT job that pays half that. Honestly I’d rather train up a smart but humble rookie over someone who’s going to lecture me on how Rust is the best language over and over again.
    - lurk2 2mo ago
      There are Costa Ricans who barely speak English making those wages reading off scripts in a call center.
coldtea 2mo ago
>I’ve had some friends do the digital nomad lifestyle. One thing that stood out to me was how many of them were not really doing that well financially. The stereotype is someone with a $100K per year job living like a king in a place where the median wages are 1/10th of that It's about the travelling and lifestyle, not the earnings over some regular stationary job. But even $50K/year is still bad from the perspective the parent notes, if the locals making $10K or $30K/year have to compete for rent and services with those nomads in their own area.
- pwagland 2mo ago
  This is the bit that I don't get though, if it is all about the "travel and lifestyle", then why would I want to end up in a rural village in Spain. My travel is more limited, and I'm hardly following the "digital nomad lifestyle". Not saying it can't be fun, but you can live in a country town almost anywhere, if I just want a permanent base hours from any airport, and they all tend to be a lot cheaper than living in the "big smoke".
  - swiftcoder 2mo ago
    > Not saying it can't be fun, but you can live in a country town almost anywhere, if I just want a permanent base hours from any airport, and they all tend to be a lot cheaper than living in the "big smoke". I think folks from the US tend to underestimate the difference in proximity and services available in rural Spain vs rural US. I emigrated to a tiny rural village in a far-flung corner of Spain, and I have an excellent highway 10 minutes away, the airport is 45 minutes (basically the same amount of time it took me from downtown Seattle to the airport), a decent city is also 45 minutes away. There are less than 1,000 folks in the entire district, but we have gigabit fibre to every house, a healthcare centre covered by national healthcare, dental clinic, two supermarkets, 6 cafes...
  - coldtea 2mo ago
    >This is the bit that I don't get though, if it is all about the "travel and lifestyle", then why would I want to end up in a rural village in Spain. Because going abroad at a different place than your regular country, and staying at a place for months or even a year or so, is also travelling. Travelling as in "I'm abroad, experiencing a different place and culture", not as in "I actively move from country to country every second week". And a "rural village in Spain" is quite compelling, both as a work base and as a lifestyle to many. In which case, why would it matter if it's "hours from any airport" or not? Who said you'll be just using it as a jump base for airport travel? It can just be a place to work from and soak the local environment and surrounding areas. Not to mention in Spain you can't be a few hours from the nearest airport anywhere anyway. It's not some vast wasteland.
rjh29 2mo ago
> There were people who were lucky enough to have the six figure remote jobs at companies that were okay with them not being available during normal business hours. Those jobs were at high risk of getting cut at the next economic down cycle. When I did this, working outside of business hours was seen as an advantage in case we had issues overnight.
fearmerchant 2mo ago
Sounds like a version of OnlyFans for men.
- mock-possum 2mo ago
  Is OnlyFans for women? What?
  - fearmerchant 2mo ago
    Women are the ones making money on it. At least some are. Then there's a long tail that don't.

throwaway13337 2mo ago

I was just the sort you’re talking about. I did contract work so I could stay traveling and lived on money I made in previous full time jobs. It was a very nice way to live compared to the 9 to 5 even though I made less money. Having enough money to live the way you want is all you need. Hostels are fun. But in the free time I had, I did end up making a SaaS that set me up very comfortably for the rest of my life. Cynicism will keep you in your 9 to 5.

maest 2mo ago
[flagged]
- throwaway13337 2mo ago
  I guess my implied advice is to live the way you want even if it means making less money than you could? Yeah. I’ll own that. Believe it or not, you're on a website where a lot of the readers build stuff. And quite a few find success.
  - KennyBlanken 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - CalRobert 2mo ago
      It’s not a throwaway
  - brabel 2mo ago
    > And quite a few find success. I guess the question is what percentage do. And what percentage tries and go completely broke before going back to a 9 to 5 job.
    - ashirviskas 2mo ago
      I'm 30, I am trying to achieve what the other person described. I'm not there yet, but I feel like I might be in 8-36 months timeframe. Ask me then, you'll get at least one more data point that's not just survivorship bias.
      - brabel 2mo ago
        At 30 you have nothing to lose or even if you do you have decades ahead to turn things around. Despite what I said I wish you and other young people luck, enjoy your life doing what you love before you get old and grumpy.
- cultofmetatron 2mo ago
  > This must be a troll. Its funny cuz what he describes is basically my story as well. I lived to travel and took on substandard contracts to get by for awhile. eventually met my cofounders and now I'm living comfortably on a descent salary with a saas that I built. Hopefully I can keep this going indefinitly.
KennyBlanken 2mo ago
[flagged]
- seibelj 2mo ago
  [dead]
lofties 2mo ago
Can you link to the SaaS that set you up very comfortable for the rest of your life?
a96 2mo ago
Yes. Salary is compensation for sacrifice. Many (most, hopefully, but interestingly not all) would rather have less sacrifice than more compensation. Not spending your life doing what someone else wants leaves more life to do what you want with.
a57721 2mo ago
> Having enough money to live the way you want is all you need. Hostels are fun. Hostels are not fun, unless you are in your early 20s.
- retired 2mo ago
  In my late 30s now, I don’t even do hotels with a shared toilet anymore. I need my own private room and my own private en-suite bathroom at minimum.
  - lotsofpulp 2mo ago
    My rule is maximum 2 people per first toilet, or else it isn’t a vacation.
- coldtea 2mo ago
  Hostels are fun if you have that disposition. If you don't, even 5 star hotels can be miserable.
  - nephihaha 2mo ago
    Up to a point. Hostels are very irritating now in that there is always someone on their phone at all hours lighting up the entire room. Also some noise issues. I find quieter hostels much better. When I was over in Ireland, the ones in Belfast and Dublin were awful, and in county Galway. I found wonderful ones in Co. Donegal, Armagh and Limerick.
    - hippietrail 2mo ago
      Depends on the hostel and the guests. It's a few months since I had a roommate on their phone at night. I've had noise issues in hotels and I've had quiet hostels. Totally orthogonal.
- brailsafe 2mo ago
  Meh, although I'm conscious of the possibility I might be seen as a creepy old guy in his mid-thirties, I still find that hostels can be fun. I don't necessarily want to go out partying with 20 year olds, but an occasional few drinks with strangers and the ability to re-allocate funds to something more interesting than a hotel is very valuable. Travelling is already expensive as hell, I'm going to do it the way I want, and there's usually outgoing people within the same approx age range that want to do similarly. That said, much like hotels, some hostels do suck; bedbugs are not chill, location is important, cost is important, vibe is important. I found that hostels that were more suited to families trying to save money were the least appealing as someone with just a spouse and a type B personality. I hate paying for hotels so much that I visit my hometown less than I would otherwise if the city had a decent hostel.
Aurornis 2mo ago
> But in the free time I had, I did end up making a SaaS that set me up very comfortably for the rest of my life. There were examples like this of people in the groups hitting on something and making enough money to retire (if they managed their money right) It was the rare case. The end result for most of them was moving back home and taking a normal job when hopping between hostels and digital nomad group homes stopped being fun and none of their business ideas got traction.

alephnerd 2mo ago

> One thing that stood out to me was how many of them were not really doing that well financially. The stereotype is someone with a $100K per year job living like a king in a place where the median wages are 1/10th of that The thing is, having a Western passport and earning $10k-20k a year (untaxed) in countries where the median household incomes (ie. 2 working adults) are at best comparable to that is living like a king comparatively speaking. There's a reason western expats are looked down on derisively by locals across ASEAN and the only ASEAN state with a semi-functional democracy (Malaysia) is also one of the least budget tourist friendly - the middle class and above look at tay ba lo with disgust as losers, and the lower class only look up to them for the opportunity to get a more powerful visa. The high rate of "passport bros" also doesn't help. It's like that scene from Futurama when they all accidently age backwards: "Oh, so this is the famous Fry. What is he, like, the biggest loser on the surface, so he has to hang out in the sewer? Fry: They're on to me!" The reality is, most kinds of tourism only lead to the development of extractive economic institutions at the expense of human capital development and higher value economic sectors that would benefit from that. And in the case of this specific village and town in Andalusia, this will only exacerbate anti-tourism politics which has helped both Vox and Podemos because rural Andalusia is absolutely not equipped to support a sudden influx of transitory high income outsiders.

someguydave 2mo ago
Sounds like you have a low estimation of European people friend
bluecalm 2mo ago
>>The reality is, most kinds of tourism only lead to the development of extractive economic institutions at the expense of human capital development and higher value economic sectors that would benefit from that. Those are dying towns. Tourism/digital nomads are their lifeline. There is no "human capital development" to speak of. Young people there do everything they can do migrate to bigger cities. Have you ever been to the region? Many of those towns look like ghost towns. The main industry they have is greenhouse farming which actually drains the scarce resource the population need (water) while causing a lot of plastic pollution and mainly employing migrants paying them peanuts.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

999900000999 2mo ago

I’m on an extended vacation right now. Realistically I’ll take 4 to 8 weeks off while looking for work back in the US. I had a revelation a few years back. Taking real vacations is absolutely necessary. If I can work 12 months at 70 to 80$ an hour I generally can afford 8 to 12 weeks off as long as I as I’m not in the US or Europe. When I think out of the box, I do imagine working on my own ideas during my travels. Met a brilliant 23 year old last year who speaks 3 languages, and programs in Python and Java I could probably hire him at 10$ an hour. Vs some 23 year old American who will demand 45$ an hour and tell me Python sucks. But then I wake up, back to looking for my next contract.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
fluoridation 2mo ago
You could get more bang for your buck. I'm currently freelancing at ~$50/hr and for every sixtyish hours I can live for two months, so I could afford to work half the year at a leisurely pace and not work the rest of the year, or work one month full tilt and then take five months off. This is while living comfortably, not having to be frugal or anything.
tuesdaynight 2mo ago
He must be really poor or not well-versed in the IT market if you can pay him 10$/h
- 999900000999 2mo ago
  Lower cost of living country, he has an IT job that pays half that. Honestly I’d rather train up a smart but humble rookie over someone who’s going to lecture me on how Rust is the best language over and over again.
  - lurk2 2mo ago
    There are Costa Ricans who barely speak English making those wages reading off scripts in a call center.

coldtea 2mo ago

>I’ve had some friends do the digital nomad lifestyle. One thing that stood out to me was how many of them were not really doing that well financially. The stereotype is someone with a $100K per year job living like a king in a place where the median wages are 1/10th of that It's about the travelling and lifestyle, not the earnings over some regular stationary job. But even $50K/year is still bad from the perspective the parent notes, if the locals making $10K or $30K/year have to compete for rent and services with those nomads in their own area.

pwagland 2mo ago
This is the bit that I don't get though, if it is all about the "travel and lifestyle", then why would I want to end up in a rural village in Spain. My travel is more limited, and I'm hardly following the "digital nomad lifestyle". Not saying it can't be fun, but you can live in a country town almost anywhere, if I just want a permanent base hours from any airport, and they all tend to be a lot cheaper than living in the "big smoke".
- swiftcoder 2mo ago
  > Not saying it can't be fun, but you can live in a country town almost anywhere, if I just want a permanent base hours from any airport, and they all tend to be a lot cheaper than living in the "big smoke". I think folks from the US tend to underestimate the difference in proximity and services available in rural Spain vs rural US. I emigrated to a tiny rural village in a far-flung corner of Spain, and I have an excellent highway 10 minutes away, the airport is 45 minutes (basically the same amount of time it took me from downtown Seattle to the airport), a decent city is also 45 minutes away. There are less than 1,000 folks in the entire district, but we have gigabit fibre to every house, a healthcare centre covered by national healthcare, dental clinic, two supermarkets, 6 cafes...
- coldtea 2mo ago
  >This is the bit that I don't get though, if it is all about the "travel and lifestyle", then why would I want to end up in a rural village in Spain. Because going abroad at a different place than your regular country, and staying at a place for months or even a year or so, is also travelling. Travelling as in "I'm abroad, experiencing a different place and culture", not as in "I actively move from country to country every second week". And a "rural village in Spain" is quite compelling, both as a work base and as a lifestyle to many. In which case, why would it matter if it's "hours from any airport" or not? Who said you'll be just using it as a jump base for airport travel? It can just be a place to work from and soak the local environment and surrounding areas. Not to mention in Spain you can't be a few hours from the nearest airport anywhere anyway. It's not some vast wasteland.

rjh29 2mo ago

> There were people who were lucky enough to have the six figure remote jobs at companies that were okay with them not being available during normal business hours. Those jobs were at high risk of getting cut at the next economic down cycle. When I did this, working outside of business hours was seen as an advantage in case we had issues overnight.

fearmerchant 2mo ago

Sounds like a version of OnlyFans for men.

mock-possum 2mo ago
Is OnlyFans for women? What?
- fearmerchant 2mo ago
  Women are the ones making money on it. At least some are. Then there's a long tail that don't.