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As a fellow Canadian. Our neighbor is the world's biggest economy. Despite their current "challenges" they are still very close to us in values and culture. Our

by YZF 2mo ago

As a fellow Canadian. Our neighbor is the world's biggest economy. Despite their current "challenges" they are still very close to us in values and culture. Our paths are interlocked. We are not going to decouple from the USA and it's not in our interest to do so. When a Canadian new grad is faced with an option of going to work in SV or in China which do they prefer? Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? A society with no freedom of speech? Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? Where the government places citizens in concentration and re-education camps and runs them over with tanks? I mean to me the choice is clear. How many large American companies have offices in Canada? How many people and what slice of the economy does this support? Lots. So yes, the US has drifted and is drifting from the ideal. And maybe it was never the ideal. But it's much closer to us than China in every imaginable facet and will likely remain so for the next many decades. We need to filter the noise out, definitely stand firmly for what we believe in, but also compromise and look at the longer term.

hluska 2mo ago
Between another statement you’ve made here (about how the Democratic Socialists of America want to abolish democracy) and this one, you don’t have much credibility. I am Canadian and would prefer we follow any path other than any you have espoused.
- YZF 2mo ago
  Sure. We're gonna agree to disagree. I guess we don't vote for the same party here. The facts are still the facts. People like you can fantasize that somehow going over the ocean to remote countries can offset going over a truck to the world's largest economy. Or ignore the ways that our economies are so tightly coupled. I just listened to Carney talk about this and at least he's more or less a responsible adult. He said we and the US share a lot of common thinking and values and he would like to work with the US. Where he draws the line is when the US tries to take away our ability to make independent decisions. And that's fair. But it doesn't sound like he's aligned with you and so I can only guess where your politics lie. EDIT: Let's see if I can restore my credibility: A record number of people immigrated from Canada in 2025: https://thehub.ca/2026/04/03/can-anyone-solve-canadas-brain-drain-problem/ https://thehub.ca/2026/04/03/can-anyone-solve-canadas-brain-... and the article claims their most frequent destination is the US. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-627-m/11-627-m2026013-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-627-m/11-627-m2026013... In 2020 by far the country with the most Canadian ex-pats was the USA. You can tell here that the immigration trends are still there: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2025007/article/00006-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2025007/artic... And while it seems there was a big drop in 2024 the numbers have come back up: https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-legal-immigration-still-works-the-proof-is-in-the-numbers https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-legal-immigration-... Re: the DSA I'm always fascinated by the amount of mind share US politics seem to own in certain part of the Canadian public. You want to decouple from them but you obsess about their politics. I just listen to what they say and I am interested because I don't want to decouple and I see how coupled we're going to stay.
  - brazukadev 2mo ago
    > People like you can fantasize that somehow going over the ocean to remote countries can offset going over a truck to the world's largest economy Is it still the largest economy? By many numbers, it is not. The United Kingdom used to be in a similar position and Ireland was like Canada. Nowadays, Ireland does not need to cave in to its neighbor's demands.
    - YZF 2mo ago
      It is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... EDIT: Ireland very cleverly reduced corporate income taxes to lure in many multinational corporations. Kudos to them. I doubt Canada can replicate it. We have resources and resources are hard to move around. I hope we can get our economy to produce more added value products but so far that hasn't worked out.
      - brazukadev 2mo ago
        > It is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... As I said, by many numbers, it is not (and you know it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
        YZF 2mo ago
        I did not know that. It's not a metric I follow. I think it's unfair of you to say "and you know it". It's a good data point and I'm going to not step in and debate it .. because you know it ;) just kidding. I'm spending too much time getting emotionally attached to these stupid online threads.
        brazukadev 2mo ago
        > I think it's unfair of you to say "and you know it" I apologize then, I thought that as we used the same source, you would have noticed the many references in the link you shared to the PPP ranking.
lawsthro0532 2mo ago
Europe is probably much closer in values. Beyond that societies can change quickly. Germany, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Peru, Chili, South Africa, every country in the USSR, and China too have changed values dramatically in short periods of time in the past 100 yrs. Also, China is not putting out videos that say they will dominate any country in the Americas. I'd urge us to take people seriously when they say what they value: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0
- YZF 2mo ago
  China could change but it is a totalitarian regime with no human rights and a terrible track record. I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't have a quantitative way of measuring this but I disagree Europe and Canada are closer in values. Canada has some "Europe" in it but a lot more "North America". If you put a random American and a random Canadian in one room they'll have a lot more common than a random Canadian and a random European. Random examples are suburbia and gun ownership. Many Canadians are dual-citizens. About a million US citizens live in Canada. Many Canadians work and travel to the US. Business, personal, family relationships etc. Similarly about a million Canadians live in the US. I've worked a lot with Europeans and Americans (I still do, I work for a large American company with offices in both). I've traveled to the US and to Europe. If you've done that a lot then you know the difference in feeling and culture.
  - deaux 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - earthdeity 2mo ago
      I think this is a fair take, but also the US does this because it can. I don't think other countries don't do imperialism because they are morally pure, but because to do so means getting into conflict with the US. The US just has the biggest stick and so can push around other nations with impunity. The US domestically has a commendable historic commitment to free expression and press freedom, which are good things that China does badly. Those things deserve to be commended even while we condemn imperialism. China has its own record of imperialism in Nepal and its ambitions to attack Taiwan. It just doesn't (currently) have the position to act with impunity the US has long enjoyed.
rchaud 2mo ago
> Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? I take it this ambitious Canadian grad hasn't had the temerity to protect his privacy before entering the land of the free[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49386895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49386895
- tass 2mo ago
  I hope after this case that it becomes common sense to not destroy evidence after it’s been asked for.
FpUser 2mo ago
>"Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer" You do not have to accept Chinese values to trade with them. And the US themselves does not give a flying fuck about values. They would prop any dictator if it helps to fill pockets. Stop this scaring game. >"but also compromise and look at the longer term" In the longer term we should learn to stand on our own and do not put ourselves in the position when the US would be able to strangle us economically.
- YZF 2mo ago
  Trading with them significantly is a statement on their values. People who choose trade with China over trade with the US are making statements about values. As much as we hear that China is somehow better than the US - it's very much not. Yes, the US has many faults and yes greedy capitalism and all of that. There is no possible future where our fate is not interlocked with the USA. The USA will always be able to "strangle us economically". Though why should they do that. Carney knows this very well which is why he's generally not burning any bridges. He's being assertive but knows we're going to need to work together - and he says as much. I mean just yesterday he was pressuring the provinces to get US booze back on our shelves, and they agreed. So we're gonna go through another back and forth here but eventually we'll get a new agreement. Maybe soon. 70% of our exports, or about $450 billion dollars go to the USA. $23B to China. This is structural, fundamental, been this way forever, will be this way forever. Half our imports are from the USA. I'm from BC and many business here would not exist without significant trade with the US. There is no replacement with China. China doesn't need or buy the things they make. BC's economy would look like Syria's if we were to decouple from the US. I'm all for some diversification. I'm also all for building more things in Canada and finding more markets. But this idea that we will decouple from the US is not grounded in any reality. Yes, we're upset. Yes they've made very problematic statements and are ruled by a child. This will pass and Canada and the US will still be here. Other than economically it's worth mentioning that if the Russians were for some reason interested in taking a bite off Canada the only thing standing between them and us is the USA. We can't even defend ourselves.
  - aianus 2mo ago
    Leave for the US now if you can, while TN still exists. Canada at least used to be cleaner and safer and only slightly poorer than the US but since 2019 the divergence has been incredible and now I regret not leaving sooner. Anyone even slightly above average in intelligence or work ethic will do better in the US, don't let online leftist echo chambers convince you otherwise!
Danox 2mo ago
As a Canadian, what are you looking for? China is not interested in being your mommy or your daddy. They just want to make a business deal. The United States however, wants to be mommy and daddy in short tell you what to do when they think it’s appropriate and I’m saying this as an American, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand need to get out of that mentality in relationship to the United States. You don’t want the United States to be your mommy or your daddy do what is in your best interest moving forward, and I think the rest of the world is catching on do what is in your best interest oh and I don’t mean start or participate in a war. The clown in the White House time will pass however the damage has been done, and it will take decades to recover from it.
- remarkEon 2mo ago
  >China is not interested in being your mommy or your daddy. They just want to make a business deal. Hopelessly naive, and honestly if this is the mean opinion in Canada I have concerns about their continued membership in FVEY.
- avazhi 2mo ago
  Why don’t you ask the countries around the South China Sea how that’s going for them.
  - kakacik 2mo ago
    I dont see them bombed into oblivion, hundreds of thousands to millions civilians dead, infrastructure back to medieval times. If US would wage such 'wars' in past 60 years as China is doing now, world would be in massively better shape and tens of millions would be alive. This is how you expand your hegemony economically in 21st century. Man, I get the argument you are trying to make, but it simply doesnt work, not in 2026, not when we know how much evil shit US has done to many other countries and its people. There is no reason to ignore all those atrocities unless you want to cherrypick your facts and reach the desired conclusion.
    - avazhi 2mo ago
      I wasn’t addressing America at all, I was responding to a quote suggesting that china is some benign benevolent power. What’s the logical fallacy where you change the subject and point out how some other unrelated entity does the same thing? What about ism?
GamerUncle 2mo ago
"We need to filter the noise out, definitely stand firmly for what we believe in, but also compromise and look at the longer term." We have already compromised a lot, too much and we have decades if not centuries of destroying entire cities and economies to make the Americans happy. But we simply cannot stand for this anymore. Not when it is clear that American values, at least the values of the current republican elite, are the values of Epstein and degeneracy. We have given everything to Americans and they have been ungrateful to an insulting degree. No more we simply can't afford it. I don't like Carney that much but no choice was given. Furthermore well is quite obvious that while China is no paradise for free speech; things like flock cameras or the way the judenburgueoise will punish anyone who criticizes Epstein's beloved country, are blatant proof freedom of speech in America is not absolute.
deaux 2mo ago
> Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? To anyone in a third-party country, it's incredible that someone still says this without any doubts in their minds about a country whose regime leader is Jeffrey Epstein's best friend and a known PDF. He was voted in by public support. Which values is this compatible with? Does that mean China's "values" are better? No, but it means it's at the very least not clear cut at all, and you're still pretending that it is. I get that this is due to indoctrination from since you were young, but you're now an adult and need to come to terms with the idea that these things are now far from black and white. It's like a French person saying "the Germans are much closer to our values than the Russians" in 1933. I'm sure you would've said that. > When a Canadian new grad is faced with an option of going to work in SV or in China which do they prefer? One who wants to positively contribute to the future of humanity? Realistically, by far the biggest lever to do this is the transition to renewable energy, and by now effectively all of this is done in China. In SV a modern new grad's choices in 2026 are basically working at an AI lab or AI wrapper startup. That's 90% of current SV new grad positions.
- RunSet 2mo ago
  > Jeffrey Epstein's best friend and a known PDF. He was voted in by public support. He did not win the popular vote in 2016 and I doubt he won it in 2020. "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_ph...
  - bruce511 2mo ago
    I agree he did not win the popular vote in 2016 or 2020. (I'm not sure what reflection that is on "democracy" in 2016, but hey.) However he did win the popular vote in 2024. Meaning that people took a look at his first term, took a look at the Binden years, and thought to themselves "hey, I prefer the first guy". (Or perhaps althernativly, "no way I'm voting for a woman"), I guess this is democracy in action right? Optimizing for popularity over quality.
    - 2mo ago
throwthrowrow 2mo ago
[flagged]
- mapontosevenths 2mo ago
  Hundreds of students were murdered, and your primary concern is accurate reporting of the murder weapon? You aren't wrong... But it kind of buries the lede, doesn't it? Edit: You literally are wrong. A declassified cable between the UK and the Chinese ambassador puts the death toll near 10,000 and the "armored vehicles" were used for many of the murders. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/at-least-10-000-killed-in-1989-tiananmen-crackdown-british-cable/uicjlaqr1 https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/at-least-10-000-killed-i...
  - tw1984 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - mapontosevenths 2mo ago
      > The fact that you blindly trust such brutal regime tells a lot about your evil soul. shame on you! I mean, if it's about trust... your only source so far has been "some dude on the internet" and Wikipedia (which is also "some dude on the internet" unless you click through to the sources). If you just read the sources linked by the Wikipedia article that YOU posted you'll see that even though the estimates of the dead are ALL OVER the place they're pretty much universally very high, and it's almost universally agreed that at least some of them were due to students, military, and civilians being run over by armored vehicles. Whether those vehicles were literally tanks or other armored vehicles really isn't important. The important part is the brutal and painful death. Some examples even you might trust: The Chinese Red Cross reported 2,600 deaths the next day (they later retracted it - presumably under threat). Amnesty international says it was between "several hundred" and a thousand deaths. Student leaders at Peking university claimed it was between 2,000 and 3,000 before they were silenced. The Tiannaman mothers claim to know of 300 directly. The Swiss ambassador estimated 2,700 deaths after visiting the hospitals.
em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago
Hopefully the experience with tariffs and ICE will help North America realize how great free trade and movement is and form a North American free trade & movement zone.
pgug 2mo ago
When you say the US is close to Canada in values I get nervous, I want to travel to Canada some day. Are Canada also against lgbt people, abortion and other common human rights?
- heyjamesknight 2mo ago
  The US is objectively one of the most liberal states in the world in all three of those metrics, especially abortion. Who are you comparing us to?
  - pgug 2mo ago
    Denmark where I live.
    - TitaRusell 2mo ago
      The Danish had the balls to go to war with Germany. It was a total disaster ofcourse but it proved it's sovereignty on the battlefield.
    - heyjamesknight 2mo ago
      More than half of the US has more liberal abortion laws than Denmark (25 states and DC). 6 states with a combined population roughly 5-6X that of Denmark legalized gay marriage before your home country. You are misinformed.
  - BeetleB 2mo ago
    > Who are you comparing us to? I imagine Europe and Australia. "We're not as bad as <random Asian/African country>" is not something to boast about.
    - remarkEon 2mo ago
      Most countries in Europe have more restrictive abortion policies than a state chosen at random in the US. Your perception is unbelievably flawed. Almost this entire thread has a cartoon/marvel comic version of "US BAD, everyone else good" in their heads.
jml78 2mo ago
Are you paying attention to what ICE is doing in the US? Deporting US citizens, murdering US citizens, and moving towards white nationalism. Unless the US makes a huge correction in 2028, we are looking to be like the handmaids tale. And I would say China is a culture closer to Canada than that.
- nobodysreading 2mo ago
  Don't get me wrong -- the US record on human rights is capital-B Bad. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the Uyghurs (or Tibetians) being prosecuted in China are/were also citizens. China's human rights record is also capital-B Bad, and I hope Canada (and the EU) manage to significantly outperform both..
CursedSilicon 2mo ago
Y'know with the exception of being run over with tanks (yet) I wasn't sure which side you were describing. Freedom of speech only exists on paper. One side screeches about "cancel culture" but then hides behind it to mock school shootings, but god forbid you say mean things about dear leader on television! The current admin doesn't jail people for having wrong opinions. It just sends them to other countries to do the jailing. Or to Gitmo if they happened to be in the wrong part of the world at one point or another. Alligator Alcatraz and ICE camps sure as hell seem close enough to "re-education" camps to me
bigchorizo 2mo ago
> Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? A society with no freedom of speech? Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? Where the government places citizens in concentration and re-education camps and runs them over with tanks? I mean to me the choice is clear. If these are the values you are looking at then the difference is slimmer than you think. Until you said tanks I was fairly sure this will be a bait and switch.

by YZF 2mo ago

hluska 2mo ago

Between another statement you’ve made here (about how the Democratic Socialists of America want to abolish democracy) and this one, you don’t have much credibility. I am Canadian and would prefer we follow any path other than any you have espoused.

YZF 2mo ago
Sure. We're gonna agree to disagree. I guess we don't vote for the same party here. The facts are still the facts. People like you can fantasize that somehow going over the ocean to remote countries can offset going over a truck to the world's largest economy. Or ignore the ways that our economies are so tightly coupled. I just listened to Carney talk about this and at least he's more or less a responsible adult. He said we and the US share a lot of common thinking and values and he would like to work with the US. Where he draws the line is when the US tries to take away our ability to make independent decisions. And that's fair. But it doesn't sound like he's aligned with you and so I can only guess where your politics lie. EDIT: Let's see if I can restore my credibility: A record number of people immigrated from Canada in 2025: https://thehub.ca/2026/04/03/can-anyone-solve-canadas-brain-drain-problem/ https://thehub.ca/2026/04/03/can-anyone-solve-canadas-brain-... and the article claims their most frequent destination is the US. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-627-m/11-627-m2026013-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-627-m/11-627-m2026013... In 2020 by far the country with the most Canadian ex-pats was the USA. You can tell here that the immigration trends are still there: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2025007/article/00006-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2025007/artic... And while it seems there was a big drop in 2024 the numbers have come back up: https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-legal-immigration-still-works-the-proof-is-in-the-numbers https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-legal-immigration-... Re: the DSA I'm always fascinated by the amount of mind share US politics seem to own in certain part of the Canadian public. You want to decouple from them but you obsess about their politics. I just listen to what they say and I am interested because I don't want to decouple and I see how coupled we're going to stay.
- brazukadev 2mo ago
  > People like you can fantasize that somehow going over the ocean to remote countries can offset going over a truck to the world's largest economy Is it still the largest economy? By many numbers, it is not. The United Kingdom used to be in a similar position and Ireland was like Canada. Nowadays, Ireland does not need to cave in to its neighbor's demands.
  - YZF 2mo ago
    It is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... EDIT: Ireland very cleverly reduced corporate income taxes to lure in many multinational corporations. Kudos to them. I doubt Canada can replicate it. We have resources and resources are hard to move around. I hope we can get our economy to produce more added value products but so far that hasn't worked out.
    - brazukadev 2mo ago
      > It is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... As I said, by many numbers, it is not (and you know it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
      - YZF 2mo ago
        I did not know that. It's not a metric I follow. I think it's unfair of you to say "and you know it". It's a good data point and I'm going to not step in and debate it .. because you know it ;) just kidding. I'm spending too much time getting emotionally attached to these stupid online threads.
        brazukadev 2mo ago
        > I think it's unfair of you to say "and you know it" I apologize then, I thought that as we used the same source, you would have noticed the many references in the link you shared to the PPP ranking.

lawsthro0532 2mo ago

Europe is probably much closer in values. Beyond that societies can change quickly. Germany, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Peru, Chili, South Africa, every country in the USSR, and China too have changed values dramatically in short periods of time in the past 100 yrs. Also, China is not putting out videos that say they will dominate any country in the Americas. I'd urge us to take people seriously when they say what they value: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359k45CBY0

YZF 2mo ago
China could change but it is a totalitarian regime with no human rights and a terrible track record. I would be happy to see a change there towards freedom, democracy and human rights but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't have a quantitative way of measuring this but I disagree Europe and Canada are closer in values. Canada has some "Europe" in it but a lot more "North America". If you put a random American and a random Canadian in one room they'll have a lot more common than a random Canadian and a random European. Random examples are suburbia and gun ownership. Many Canadians are dual-citizens. About a million US citizens live in Canada. Many Canadians work and travel to the US. Business, personal, family relationships etc. Similarly about a million Canadians live in the US. I've worked a lot with Europeans and Americans (I still do, I work for a large American company with offices in both). I've traveled to the US and to Europe. If you've done that a lot then you know the difference in feeling and culture.
- deaux 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - earthdeity 2mo ago
    I think this is a fair take, but also the US does this because it can. I don't think other countries don't do imperialism because they are morally pure, but because to do so means getting into conflict with the US. The US just has the biggest stick and so can push around other nations with impunity. The US domestically has a commendable historic commitment to free expression and press freedom, which are good things that China does badly. Those things deserve to be commended even while we condemn imperialism. China has its own record of imperialism in Nepal and its ambitions to attack Taiwan. It just doesn't (currently) have the position to act with impunity the US has long enjoyed.

rchaud 2mo ago

> Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? I take it this ambitious Canadian grad hasn't had the temerity to protect his privacy before entering the land of the free[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49386895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49386895

tass 2mo ago
I hope after this case that it becomes common sense to not destroy evidence after it’s been asked for.

FpUser 2mo ago

>"Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer" You do not have to accept Chinese values to trade with them. And the US themselves does not give a flying fuck about values. They would prop any dictator if it helps to fill pockets. Stop this scaring game. >"but also compromise and look at the longer term" In the longer term we should learn to stand on our own and do not put ourselves in the position when the US would be able to strangle us economically.

YZF 2mo ago
Trading with them significantly is a statement on their values. People who choose trade with China over trade with the US are making statements about values. As much as we hear that China is somehow better than the US - it's very much not. Yes, the US has many faults and yes greedy capitalism and all of that. There is no possible future where our fate is not interlocked with the USA. The USA will always be able to "strangle us economically". Though why should they do that. Carney knows this very well which is why he's generally not burning any bridges. He's being assertive but knows we're going to need to work together - and he says as much. I mean just yesterday he was pressuring the provinces to get US booze back on our shelves, and they agreed. So we're gonna go through another back and forth here but eventually we'll get a new agreement. Maybe soon. 70% of our exports, or about $450 billion dollars go to the USA. $23B to China. This is structural, fundamental, been this way forever, will be this way forever. Half our imports are from the USA. I'm from BC and many business here would not exist without significant trade with the US. There is no replacement with China. China doesn't need or buy the things they make. BC's economy would look like Syria's if we were to decouple from the US. I'm all for some diversification. I'm also all for building more things in Canada and finding more markets. But this idea that we will decouple from the US is not grounded in any reality. Yes, we're upset. Yes they've made very problematic statements and are ruled by a child. This will pass and Canada and the US will still be here. Other than economically it's worth mentioning that if the Russians were for some reason interested in taking a bite off Canada the only thing standing between them and us is the USA. We can't even defend ourselves.
- aianus 2mo ago
  Leave for the US now if you can, while TN still exists. Canada at least used to be cleaner and safer and only slightly poorer than the US but since 2019 the divergence has been incredible and now I regret not leaving sooner. Anyone even slightly above average in intelligence or work ethic will do better in the US, don't let online leftist echo chambers convince you otherwise!

Danox 2mo ago

As a Canadian, what are you looking for? China is not interested in being your mommy or your daddy. They just want to make a business deal. The United States however, wants to be mommy and daddy in short tell you what to do when they think it’s appropriate and I’m saying this as an American, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand need to get out of that mentality in relationship to the United States. You don’t want the United States to be your mommy or your daddy do what is in your best interest moving forward, and I think the rest of the world is catching on do what is in your best interest oh and I don’t mean start or participate in a war. The clown in the White House time will pass however the damage has been done, and it will take decades to recover from it.

remarkEon 2mo ago
>China is not interested in being your mommy or your daddy. They just want to make a business deal. Hopelessly naive, and honestly if this is the mean opinion in Canada I have concerns about their continued membership in FVEY.
avazhi 2mo ago
Why don’t you ask the countries around the South China Sea how that’s going for them.
- kakacik 2mo ago
  I dont see them bombed into oblivion, hundreds of thousands to millions civilians dead, infrastructure back to medieval times. If US would wage such 'wars' in past 60 years as China is doing now, world would be in massively better shape and tens of millions would be alive. This is how you expand your hegemony economically in 21st century. Man, I get the argument you are trying to make, but it simply doesnt work, not in 2026, not when we know how much evil shit US has done to many other countries and its people. There is no reason to ignore all those atrocities unless you want to cherrypick your facts and reach the desired conclusion.
  - avazhi 2mo ago
    I wasn’t addressing America at all, I was responding to a quote suggesting that china is some benign benevolent power. What’s the logical fallacy where you change the subject and point out how some other unrelated entity does the same thing? What about ism?

GamerUncle 2mo ago

"We need to filter the noise out, definitely stand firmly for what we believe in, but also compromise and look at the longer term." We have already compromised a lot, too much and we have decades if not centuries of destroying entire cities and economies to make the Americans happy. But we simply cannot stand for this anymore. Not when it is clear that American values, at least the values of the current republican elite, are the values of Epstein and degeneracy. We have given everything to Americans and they have been ungrateful to an insulting degree. No more we simply can't afford it. I don't like Carney that much but no choice was given. Furthermore well is quite obvious that while China is no paradise for free speech; things like flock cameras or the way the judenburgueoise will punish anyone who criticizes Epstein's beloved country, are blatant proof freedom of speech in America is not absolute.

deaux 2mo ago

> Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? To anyone in a third-party country, it's incredible that someone still says this without any doubts in their minds about a country whose regime leader is Jeffrey Epstein's best friend and a known PDF. He was voted in by public support. Which values is this compatible with? Does that mean China's "values" are better? No, but it means it's at the very least not clear cut at all, and you're still pretending that it is. I get that this is due to indoctrination from since you were young, but you're now an adult and need to come to terms with the idea that these things are now far from black and white. It's like a French person saying "the Germans are much closer to our values than the Russians" in 1933. I'm sure you would've said that. > When a Canadian new grad is faced with an option of going to work in SV or in China which do they prefer? One who wants to positively contribute to the future of humanity? Realistically, by far the biggest lever to do this is the transition to renewable energy, and by now effectively all of this is done in China. In SV a modern new grad's choices in 2026 are basically working at an AI lab or AI wrapper startup. That's 90% of current SV new grad positions.

RunSet 2mo ago
> Jeffrey Epstein's best friend and a known PDF. He was voted in by public support. He did not win the popular vote in 2016 and I doubt he won it in 2020. "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_ph...
- bruce511 2mo ago
  I agree he did not win the popular vote in 2016 or 2020. (I'm not sure what reflection that is on "democracy" in 2016, but hey.) However he did win the popular vote in 2024. Meaning that people took a look at his first term, took a look at the Binden years, and thought to themselves "hey, I prefer the first guy". (Or perhaps althernativly, "no way I'm voting for a woman"), I guess this is democracy in action right? Optimizing for popularity over quality.
  - 2mo ago

throwthrowrow 2mo ago

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mapontosevenths 2mo ago
Hundreds of students were murdered, and your primary concern is accurate reporting of the murder weapon? You aren't wrong... But it kind of buries the lede, doesn't it? Edit: You literally are wrong. A declassified cable between the UK and the Chinese ambassador puts the death toll near 10,000 and the "armored vehicles" were used for many of the murders. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/at-least-10-000-killed-in-1989-tiananmen-crackdown-british-cable/uicjlaqr1 https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/at-least-10-000-killed-i...
- tw1984 2mo ago
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  - mapontosevenths 2mo ago
    > The fact that you blindly trust such brutal regime tells a lot about your evil soul. shame on you! I mean, if it's about trust... your only source so far has been "some dude on the internet" and Wikipedia (which is also "some dude on the internet" unless you click through to the sources). If you just read the sources linked by the Wikipedia article that YOU posted you'll see that even though the estimates of the dead are ALL OVER the place they're pretty much universally very high, and it's almost universally agreed that at least some of them were due to students, military, and civilians being run over by armored vehicles. Whether those vehicles were literally tanks or other armored vehicles really isn't important. The important part is the brutal and painful death. Some examples even you might trust: The Chinese Red Cross reported 2,600 deaths the next day (they later retracted it - presumably under threat). Amnesty international says it was between "several hundred" and a thousand deaths. Student leaders at Peking university claimed it was between 2,000 and 3,000 before they were silenced. The Tiannaman mothers claim to know of 300 directly. The Swiss ambassador estimated 2,700 deaths after visiting the hospitals.

em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago

Hopefully the experience with tariffs and ICE will help North America realize how great free trade and movement is and form a North American free trade & movement zone.

pgug 2mo ago

When you say the US is close to Canada in values I get nervous, I want to travel to Canada some day. Are Canada also against lgbt people, abortion and other common human rights?

heyjamesknight 2mo ago
The US is objectively one of the most liberal states in the world in all three of those metrics, especially abortion. Who are you comparing us to?
- pgug 2mo ago
  Denmark where I live.
  - TitaRusell 2mo ago
    The Danish had the balls to go to war with Germany. It was a total disaster ofcourse but it proved it's sovereignty on the battlefield.
  - heyjamesknight 2mo ago
    More than half of the US has more liberal abortion laws than Denmark (25 states and DC). 6 states with a combined population roughly 5-6X that of Denmark legalized gay marriage before your home country. You are misinformed.
- BeetleB 2mo ago
  > Who are you comparing us to? I imagine Europe and Australia. "We're not as bad as <random Asian/African country>" is not something to boast about.
  - remarkEon 2mo ago
    Most countries in Europe have more restrictive abortion policies than a state chosen at random in the US. Your perception is unbelievably flawed. Almost this entire thread has a cartoon/marvel comic version of "US BAD, everyone else good" in their heads.

jml78 2mo ago

Are you paying attention to what ICE is doing in the US? Deporting US citizens, murdering US citizens, and moving towards white nationalism. Unless the US makes a huge correction in 2028, we are looking to be like the handmaids tale. And I would say China is a culture closer to Canada than that.

nobodysreading 2mo ago
Don't get me wrong -- the US record on human rights is capital-B Bad. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the Uyghurs (or Tibetians) being prosecuted in China are/were also citizens. China's human rights record is also capital-B Bad, and I hope Canada (and the EU) manage to significantly outperform both..

CursedSilicon 2mo ago

Y'know with the exception of being run over with tanks (yet) I wasn't sure which side you were describing. Freedom of speech only exists on paper. One side screeches about "cancel culture" but then hides behind it to mock school shootings, but god forbid you say mean things about dear leader on television! The current admin doesn't jail people for having wrong opinions. It just sends them to other countries to do the jailing. Or to Gitmo if they happened to be in the wrong part of the world at one point or another. Alligator Alcatraz and ICE camps sure as hell seem close enough to "re-education" camps to me

bigchorizo 2mo ago

> Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? A society with no freedom of speech? Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? Where the government places citizens in concentration and re-education camps and runs them over with tanks? I mean to me the choice is clear. If these are the values you are looking at then the difference is slimmer than you think. Until you said tanks I was fairly sure this will be a bait and switch.