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You are both right. The world capitulates more than it should. But the world is also moving away and building contingencies. The world needs leadership. And Ca

You are both right. The world capitulates more than it should. But the world is also moving away and building contingencies. The world needs leadership. And Canada is helping with that. I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating their economy. It takes longer but it is what will work. And even if their behaviour does not change, their power will fade with their economy.

bryanlarsen 1mo ago
But what tool do you use to shift trade away from the US to other countries? Tariffs are perhaps the most efficient mechanism.
- 8note 1mo ago
  regulatory alignment is an obvious one there's plenty of barriers without tariffs holding up trade between blocks and countries.
- chermi 1mo ago
  Create and serve better products more efficiently while the US insists preserving unproductive jobs and banning progress is more important than growth and affordability. Learn from what they did well and what they did poorly, copy the good parts.
swat535 1mo ago
As a Canadian, my hope is that we can build stronger relations with Europe. I don't think anyone can avoid China but I would rather minimize those ties. We can't afford to cut all ties with United States due to our geography and history, however it would be prudent for us to reduce our dependency. I don't think majority of Canadians wish to see the nation in such a vulnerable position again with regards to US. Banking on a single player in terms of security and trade has proven to be a risky endeavor. I have much love for the American people, but I support the actions of our government.
- senderista 1mo ago
  I am an American and I support the actions of your government as well. Capitulation never works against a bully--they will always come back for more.
  - georgemcbay 1mo ago
    Also American and I love to see other countries stand up to Trump and give us the collective middle finger in a meaningful way. Sorry we failed you all, world. I hope we are able to elect competent leaders in the future that can mend relationships to some degree, but you all can clearly never again allow us the same amount of global leverage that we had through most of the post-war period.
- YZF 1mo ago
  As a fellow Canadian. Our neighbor is the world's biggest economy. Despite their current "challenges" they are still very close to us in values and culture. Our paths are interlocked. We are not going to decouple from the USA and it's not in our interest to do so. When a Canadian new grad is faced with an option of going to work in SV or in China which do they prefer? Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? A society with no freedom of speech? Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? Where the government places citizens in concentration and re-education camps and runs them over with tanks? I mean to me the choice is clear. How many large American companies have offices in Canada? How many people and what slice of the economy does this support? Lots. So yes, the US has drifted and is drifting from the ideal. And maybe it was never the ideal. But it's much closer to us than China in every imaginable facet and will likely remain so for the next many decades. We need to filter the noise out, definitely stand firmly for what we believe in, but also compromise and look at the longer term.
  - hluska 1mo ago
    Between another statement you’ve made here (about how the Democratic Socialists of America want to abolish democracy) and this one, you don’t have much credibility. I am Canadian and would prefer we follow any path other than any you have espoused.
tensor 1mo ago
> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating their economy. It takes longer but it is what will work. And even if their behaviour does not change, their power will fade with their economy. I don't really agree. For one, they did help China, the US eventually caved because US businesses and consumers got really upset. The same can be true here. The admin doesn't care, but the business owners do. They're already being squeezed by tariffs on their parts, further damaging their exports will cause them to complain to the admin. That's something Trump has historically caved on to some extent. Also keep in mind that the way Canada will do tariffs is the way they should be used, not blanket but strategically to have as little impact on Canadians and as much impact on US businesses as possible.
wmoxam 1mo ago
> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. Reciprocal tariffs will be crafted to specifically to avoid damaging the Canadian economy. Input to Canadian manufacturing for example won't be touched, but other sectors where the product is more of a luxury or there's an easy replacement available will be targeted. Perhaps the digital services tax or similar will make a return.
neilpmas 1mo ago
It's just for a headline. There is a folder with what they will actually tariff hidden in their treasury somewhere. Expect it to smash red states and things they want to protect - Expect Harley Davidson to take a kicking again. They can't reveal the contents of the folder until they are willing to announce the tariffs - it doesn't work.
thfuran 1mo ago
>The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating their economy. Don’t tariffs on imports from US help speed that along?
bikezen 1mo ago
> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. Disagree, the timing is right before important upcoming midterms, and Canada can chose to target potential swing states with the direct results of what happens when you vote republican.
- spiderfarmer 1mo ago
  I’m convinced republicans don’t have the mental capacity to reason.
  - bikezen 1mo ago
    Dont entirely disagree, but in the special elections in the last month several districts that were trump ~20pts flipped, so there's a chance people did flip.
  - losteric 1mo ago
    Their primary information channels have been captured and corrupted. They are isolated and misled. This is the penultimate form of domestic fascist propaganda. Your reductive statement just fodders further divisiveness and apathy. We've dealt with propaganda and political change in the past. What worked has always been outreach and engagement, slow deprogramming, in person.
    - bikezen 1mo ago
      It was hard enough to deprogram people hooked into Fox news. Now try it with people who have an even worse form on their phones via twitter and/or facebook.
    - spiderfarmer 1mo ago
      I'm not from the US, but it seems to me the political divide and compromised information channels are just part of the problem. I would like to remind that you also have: - A corrupt, multi-tier judicial system - A staggering amount of money in politics - A woefully misguided superiority complex - Acceptance that the people have no power anymore - A complete lack of willpower to go out and protest - An underfunded and underperforming education system You guys need a guy like Zohran Mamdami as president.
bluegatty 1mo ago
Reciprocal tariffs are a negotiating move. They are not a rational equilibrium tactic. The op missed: "There are no deals" here, there are 'some adjustments on some things, partially implemented'.
muddi900 1mo ago
I think people disregard how economically massive the US is. China will have to grow it's overall GDP 3 times to get on the same level as US GDP per capita. US is the world's consumer. If you make something anywhere in the world, US is the "final boss". Because Americans consume so much. It is not just easy to just do reciprocal tariffs. America does not export all that much stuff. There is a nuclear option of taxing services, where the US does have a surplus. But that would plunge the global economy into further chaos. Such that the Iran war effects will look quaint. They can also do something wild like not honoring US IP protections, but that idea is way out there.

bryanlarsen 1mo ago

But what tool do you use to shift trade away from the US to other countries? Tariffs are perhaps the most efficient mechanism.

8note 1mo ago
regulatory alignment is an obvious one there's plenty of barriers without tariffs holding up trade between blocks and countries.
chermi 1mo ago
Create and serve better products more efficiently while the US insists preserving unproductive jobs and banning progress is more important than growth and affordability. Learn from what they did well and what they did poorly, copy the good parts.

swat535 1mo ago

As a Canadian, my hope is that we can build stronger relations with Europe. I don't think anyone can avoid China but I would rather minimize those ties. We can't afford to cut all ties with United States due to our geography and history, however it would be prudent for us to reduce our dependency. I don't think majority of Canadians wish to see the nation in such a vulnerable position again with regards to US. Banking on a single player in terms of security and trade has proven to be a risky endeavor. I have much love for the American people, but I support the actions of our government.

senderista 1mo ago
I am an American and I support the actions of your government as well. Capitulation never works against a bully--they will always come back for more.
- georgemcbay 1mo ago
  Also American and I love to see other countries stand up to Trump and give us the collective middle finger in a meaningful way. Sorry we failed you all, world. I hope we are able to elect competent leaders in the future that can mend relationships to some degree, but you all can clearly never again allow us the same amount of global leverage that we had through most of the post-war period.
YZF 1mo ago
As a fellow Canadian. Our neighbor is the world's biggest economy. Despite their current "challenges" they are still very close to us in values and culture. Our paths are interlocked. We are not going to decouple from the USA and it's not in our interest to do so. When a Canadian new grad is faced with an option of going to work in SV or in China which do they prefer? Between Chinese values and American values which do we prefer? A society with no freedom of speech? Where people are arbitrarily jailed if they voice an opinion against the government? Where the government places citizens in concentration and re-education camps and runs them over with tanks? I mean to me the choice is clear. How many large American companies have offices in Canada? How many people and what slice of the economy does this support? Lots. So yes, the US has drifted and is drifting from the ideal. And maybe it was never the ideal. But it's much closer to us than China in every imaginable facet and will likely remain so for the next many decades. We need to filter the noise out, definitely stand firmly for what we believe in, but also compromise and look at the longer term.
- hluska 1mo ago
  Between another statement you’ve made here (about how the Democratic Socialists of America want to abolish democracy) and this one, you don’t have much credibility. I am Canadian and would prefer we follow any path other than any you have espoused.

tensor 1mo ago

> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating their economy. It takes longer but it is what will work. And even if their behaviour does not change, their power will fade with their economy. I don't really agree. For one, they did help China, the US eventually caved because US businesses and consumers got really upset. The same can be true here. The admin doesn't care, but the business owners do. They're already being squeezed by tariffs on their parts, further damaging their exports will cause them to complain to the admin. That's something Trump has historically caved on to some extent. Also keep in mind that the way Canada will do tariffs is the way they should be used, not blanket but strategically to have as little impact on Canadians and as much impact on US businesses as possible.

wmoxam 1mo ago

> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. Reciprocal tariffs will be crafted to specifically to avoid damaging the Canadian economy. Input to Canadian manufacturing for example won't be touched, but other sectors where the product is more of a luxury or there's an easy replacement available will be targeted. Perhaps the digital services tax or similar will make a return.

neilpmas 1mo ago

It's just for a headline. There is a folder with what they will actually tariff hidden in their treasury somewhere. Expect it to smash red states and things they want to protect - Expect Harley Davidson to take a kicking again. They can't reveal the contents of the folder until they are willing to announce the tariffs - it doesn't work.

thfuran 1mo ago

>The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating their economy. Don’t tariffs on imports from US help speed that along?

bikezen 1mo ago

> I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. Disagree, the timing is right before important upcoming midterms, and Canada can chose to target potential swing states with the direct results of what happens when you vote republican.

spiderfarmer 1mo ago
I’m convinced republicans don’t have the mental capacity to reason.
- bikezen 1mo ago
  Dont entirely disagree, but in the special elections in the last month several districts that were trump ~20pts flipped, so there's a chance people did flip.
- losteric 1mo ago
  Their primary information channels have been captured and corrupted. They are isolated and misled. This is the penultimate form of domestic fascist propaganda. Your reductive statement just fodders further divisiveness and apathy. We've dealt with propaganda and political change in the past. What worked has always been outreach and engagement, slow deprogramming, in person.
  - bikezen 1mo ago
    It was hard enough to deprogram people hooked into Fox news. Now try it with people who have an even worse form on their phones via twitter and/or facebook.
  - spiderfarmer 1mo ago
    I'm not from the US, but it seems to me the political divide and compromised information channels are just part of the problem. I would like to remind that you also have: - A corrupt, multi-tier judicial system - A staggering amount of money in politics - A woefully misguided superiority complex - Acceptance that the people have no power anymore - A complete lack of willpower to go out and protest - An underfunded and underperforming education system You guys need a guy like Zohran Mamdami as president.

bluegatty 1mo ago

Reciprocal tariffs are a negotiating move. They are not a rational equilibrium tactic. The op missed: "There are no deals" here, there are 'some adjustments on some things, partially implemented'.

muddi900 1mo ago

I think people disregard how economically massive the US is. China will have to grow it's overall GDP 3 times to get on the same level as US GDP per capita. US is the world's consumer. If you make something anywhere in the world, US is the "final boss". Because Americans consume so much. It is not just easy to just do reciprocal tariffs. America does not export all that much stuff. There is a nuclear option of taxing services, where the US does have a surplus. But that would plunge the global economy into further chaos. Such that the Iran war effects will look quaint. They can also do something wild like not honoring US IP protections, but that idea is way out there.