3 ms·
'Ghost job' ads are getting so bad that lawmakers want to ban them
- tithos 1mo ago[dead]
- alex43578 1mo agoGreat idea, virtually impossible to enforce I’d imagine.
- kylehotchkiss 1mo agoI'm sure some ambulance chasing lawyer types will make quick work of the problem
- bell-cot 1mo agoPerhaps. But I suspect the world would be a far better place if ambulance chasing lawyers were actually so good at solving problems.
- trollbridge 1mo agoQuite easy to enforce with a private right of action.
- thayne 1mo agoHow would you acquire evidence that it is a ghost job, and they didn't just decide to hire someone else? How would you even know if there is a case worth pursuing?
- bluefirebrand 1mo agoEmployees who are fed up with their employers bullshit could whistleblow pretty safely
- alex43578 1mo agoCases of actual, clear-cut employment discrimination are expensive to litigate and tough to prove, even with written evidence. A company posting a job and then not filling it, or filling it under a different job title is going to be so murky.
- socalgal2 1mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Employment
- trollbridge 1mo agoFile a lawsuit and subpoena evidence from the employer. We already do this for discrimination lawsuits. It turns out that you can, indeed, just do things. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, and it can indeed be enforced against employers who do so to the point that employers are very, very careful now to make sure they don't do this.
- kylehotchkiss 1mo agoInstead of wanting to, why not just do it? This is a bipartisan win.
- DonsDiscountGas 1mo agoSeems like a difficult thing to enforce. Presumably not impossible to make some progress tho.
- xkqd 1mo agoJust speculating here but perhaps those ghost job listings are used to artificially boost the appearance of growth or even just things being business as usual. Might be useful to some folks.
- forinti 1mo agoThat would be securities fraud.
- xboxnolifes 1mo agoIsn't everything?
- xkqd 1mo agoDoesn’t necessarily have to be to mislead investors, could be to mislead applicants, competitors, whatever. I know if my business was shittin’ the bed I wouldn’t want to give any appearance of that. Better to just let everyone think it’s business as usual, no matter what.
- stackskipton 1mo agoI mean, all they have to say "We were hoping the RIGHT candidate applied that met all our criteria and they never did."
- Aurornis 1mo agoBecause the definition of a “ghost job” starts falling apart when you look closely at the numbers. A company that hires multiple people under a single generic listing like “Senior Software Engineer” would be classified as a ghost job, despite actually producing more hires than job listings. It would be annoying as hell if there was a law dictating that we had to post 50 separate job listings every time we wanted to hire 50 people and then carefully assign candidates to the right one so we didn’t accidentally trigger some ghost job law.
- zeckalpha 1mo agoYet, the government requires these, e.g. in the case of PERM applicants. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employer-recruitment-requirements-under-perm.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employer-recruitment...
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- rotringlvr 1mo ago[dead]
- trollbridge 1mo agoWell, the government actually requires a non-ghost job posting for PERM applicants. There may not be much enforcement of this, particularly employers going out of their way to try to get as few qualified applications as possible.
- hibikir 1mo agoBecause, given you aren't filing for PERM these days for someone that you have not already hired, someone off the street is going to be straight out worse than your current employee. PERM ade sense in a theoretical world without H1s or F1s, where you are filing PERM for someone off the street. But that almost never happens outside of cases where yes, you coud put the ad in the front page NYT and you'd still hire the candidate. And thus eitehr way you slice it, looking at the resumes of your ghost ad is a waste of time either way. And if one really wanted to go back to that kind of green card process, it has to be very fast anyway, instead of being as slow as it is. Otherwise it becomes useless regardless.
- trollbridge 1mo agoYet the law says they have to conduct a good-faith effort to find someone in America who already has authorisation to work (whether a citizen, green card, refugee, asylee, TPS, etc.) who is equally or more qualified. If it's a given that "nobody else will be more qualified", then they aren't making a good-faith effort, are they.
- johnaoss 1mo agoThey have been banning them! Ontario, Canada had legislation come into effect earlier this year that achieved the following (albeit for only for companies of 25 employees or more): - Required disclosure on the usage of AI in resume screening - Mandatory salary ranges that can only have a range of $50k (except over $200,000) - Required to state if the vacancy is real or 'planned for later' - Must respond to applicant within 45-days of the final interview updating them on the status of their application. Enforcement is also made slightly easier by requiring companies to retain copies of their job postings and any additional documents that are part of the application for 3 years.
- toomuchtodo 1mo agoThe state of NY is close to passing legislation as well. ‘Ghost jobs’ could soon be illegal in New York - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48558338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48558338 - June 2026 (139 comments) https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S8877 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S8877 https://www.hrdive.com/news/new-york-passed-bill-aimed-at-halting-ghost-jobs/822620/ https://www.hrdive.com/news/new-york-passed-bill-aimed-at-ha... Related: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12977 https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12977
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- IshKebab 1mo ago> Must respond This seems great, although I expect in practice we will see companies just set up automatic "sorry you haven't been successful" emails after 44 days. If you haven't heard in 45 days the answer is pretty obvious anyway. I've seen that from some big companies for applications that didn't even get an interview - months after I already got a job elsewhere I get a random email from Microsoft or whoever saying "sorry you weren't successful".
- aitchnyu 1mo agoThe Ontario law defines AI: > A machine-based system that, for explicit or implicit objectives, infers from the input it receives to generate outputs such as predictions, content, recommendations or decisions that can influence physical or virtual environments. The AI disclosure will be noise, not signal.
- Aurornis 1mo agoThat statistic that 1 in 5 job listings might be a “ghost job” comes from a company developing application tracking systems (Greenhouse) and as far as I can tell they included every listing on their website that wasn’t eventually marked as hired in their system. So a company that wanted to hire multiple people under the same application, choosing to leave it open, would be classified as a ghost job. Most tech companies I worked for would have had our common hiring listings like “Senior Software Engineer” flagged as ghost jobs under this system. I think they wanted to use this report to get their name out, and it’s working because journalists like the WSJ and even politicians are now parading their report around. The Greenhouse website looks like exactly the kind of ATS you don’t want. The top feature I see on their website is “Voice AI” which will perform an AI voice interview with the candidate for you. I don’t want anything to do with that company and I don’t trust their numbers either.
- milesvp 1mo agoGood to be skeptical. Remember, though, that there is zero cost to displaying ads. That means they get bundled at places like indeed. If you’re HR and have 3 openings, but have 4 ads you can run for less than the price of 3… Personally, I might run an ad for some kind of triple threat that has no chance of finding someone. Also, the cost of screening ad responses is near zero compared to 30 years ago. So we have economics that encourages ghost job listings. Personally I’d like to see big taxes on job postings scaling for company size, maybe duration too. Would solve this particular problem.
- darth_avocado 1mo agoThe opposite can also be true. Just because a position was marked as “hired” doesn’t mean anyone was actually hired.
- bostik 1mo agoRather sad to see them go down that path, because Greenhouse used to be a pretty good system. For an applicant it was reasonably low-friction[ß] and for the company doing the hiring it made their internal hiring process steps very smooth indeed. I have fond memories of being on the business end of Greenhouse when hiring and interviewing people. That they have stooped to dodgy marketing with bad and/or massaged statistics is telling. To think that a "Voice AI" interview would be anything other than demeaning is beyond tone deafness. ß: someone early on in the company's history must have realised that zero-friction application submissions were a terrible idea. You want candidates who at least had to go through one step on their own to submit their CV - otherwise you get flooded by LI/Indeed style spam typhoons and other eldritch horrors.
- bariswheel 1mo agoBuilding a talent pool by disingenuously leaving a position open to farm resumes and have a warm pipeline of candidates should be 'regulated' at the least. I'm trying to write politely today.
- ramijames 1mo agoI run a mid-sized job board (https://miserablyunemployed.com/ https://miserablyunemployed.com/) and I deal with a substantial amount of reports from users about jobs that aren't accurate or don't exist. They get taken down immediately. The worse offenders are the companies that are using fake jobs to drive traffic to their sites. There is a special place in hell for those people. I wish that legal systems were better equipped to deal with bad actors that obey the letter of the law, but skirt ethical and moral boundaries. I think a lot of the worst things in the world would get fixed if we had some better way of dealing with them.
- ButlerianJihad 1mo agoHow do you deal with false reports about bona fide jobs, but from malicious actors, such as competitors or trolls?
- ramijames 1mo agoI have a blacklist that filters them out at scrape-time.
- ButlerianJihad 1mo agoI am not sure that makes any sense in the context of what I asked, and it also seems to imply that your business is based on scraping others' sites, which is a bad look. Also you chose a horrendous name for it. Holy crap, I would never sign up to a site with that name, not to look for actual work! Much less a bottom-feeding scraper bot! Most job boards try to keep sort of an upbeat or optimistic mood, at least!
- ramijames 1mo agoYou're right, my answer wasn't clear. I'm saying that I've identified a few places that actively produce job listings with the sole intent of getting you to sign up for their service. It's a dark pattern and I've banned them for it. As for the name: It was an intentional brand choice. I'm not trying to build "most job boards" and I'm sick of toxic positivity. Don't like the name? Use Indeed or LinkedIn instead. It's your choice. Lastly, your characterization of the site as a "bottom-feeding scraper bot" says more about how you view technology than it does about the site. By that measure, Google is the same thing as it goes out on a schedule, scrapes site for content, creates an index, and serves that to users who query. It's a one-to-one mapping.
- yipinwong 1mo agoBeen years since "Ghost job" was to be regulated. Nothing's been done for years. This is yet another "they wanna ban" but won't do type of article. Sick of this.
- klardotsh 1mo agoWe already have a law description we could easily expand just a tiny smidge to explicitly include these in its scope, and the punishments would already be fitting: fraud.
- joeax 1mo agoInstead of banning ghost job ads, job board companies like Indeed should consider "authentic job" badges for ads and require proof a person was hired to the position. When you have real, authentic jobs people gravitate to your site. If you let junk job ads (ghost or otherwise) run amok on your site, everyone leaves. This is why you don't hear about monster.com anymore. You don't need another government ban. Let capitalism do its job.
- fn-mote 1mo agoAgain, you need to deal with people gaming the system - claiming they were hired in order to boost credibility ranking of the company (or site). When there’s a benefit to the site and the employer, that’s two potential sources of corruption.
- dredmorbius 1mo agoArchive / paywall: <https://archive.is/bfl83 https://archive.is/bfl83>
- SilentM68 1mo agoLawmakers should do more than ban them, they should require companies to notify the applicants of their final decision. I'm still waiting for dozens of companies to let me off the hook, one way or the other. That is the worse aspect of this practice in my view, that and the nasty practice Job posters have of listing the number of applicants, typically more than 100, next to the job Ads, knowing full well they'll never respond, because those jobs have been reposted, over and over.