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> For all the hate I have for the COVID vaccine Can you clarify that? It saved 100K+ lives even by incredibly conservative estimates, and allowed life to retur

> For all the hate I have for the COVID vaccine Can you clarify that? It saved 100K+ lives even by incredibly conservative estimates, and allowed life to returned to normal at least a year earlier than otherwise.

declan_roberts 1mo ago
I can't speak for other people but I was upset to enter a medical era where bureaucrats were forcing medical decisions on me. I was forced to get it or lose my job despite 1) working remotely, 2) having already had Covid and 3) being healthy and not at risk of Covid death but being the largest risk for myocarditis.
- martythemaniak 1mo ago
  Is that when you entered that era? Or did you enter it when you were a newborn in the hospital, or a kid entering school?
- searine 1mo ago
  Because, it is always all about you...
  - DaSHacka 1mo ago
    Clearly his issue is not understanding its actually all about 'grandma'.
    - declan_roberts 1mo ago
      "Think about grandma" was the covid version of "somebody think of the children"
      - DaSHacka 1mo ago
        Truly, it's the same moralizing appeal-to-emotion but with a different target ("you care about grandma, right? you wouldn't want her to die, right?"). I've always felt it was strange that the argument was (and still is!) largely blindly supported on HN, like haven't we heard this one before?
    - searine 1mo ago
      It's about protecting each other, basic empathy. Doing the bare minimum to and taking miniscule risk to protect the lives of people around you. Sorry that's hard to understand.
      - DaSHacka 1mo ago
        It is 'hard to understand' if you get harmed in the process. Hence the jokes about 'doing it for grandma', or 'screwing yourself over with lifelong complications for someone who's already 80.'
        deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
  - declan_roberts 1mo ago
    That's the definition of a personal decision.
    - searine 1mo ago
      I might decide to shit on your front porch every morning. It is the definition of a personal decision.
- Arkhaine_kupo 1mo ago
  > I was upset to enter a medical era Did we enter a new era or where you not paying attention or affecting you before? Reminds me of the old adage of: Q: "Why is no one speaking about this?" R: "Is no one talking about this, or are you just 20 and its the first time you are hearing about it?"
- hdhdhsjsbdh 1mo ago
  Americans are so silly. Resentful of being told to do anything for their own good or the good of others because of “individual liberty”, yet so willing to lick the boot of the police state and corrupt crony capitalists. Good news for you is that Elon went in and set the bureaucrats straight, so enjoy your diarrhea and glass in your food.
- dosisking 1mo ago
  [flagged]
- BigTTYGothGF 1mo ago
  > I was upset to enter a medical era where bureaucrats were forcing medical decisions on me We've been in that era your whole life.
zulux 1mo ago
[flagged]
- martythemaniak 1mo ago
  You got RFK because half the population thought they were unique snowflakes who could not abide by the same simple rules as everyone else. The price he'll extract is significant impacts on health, wealth and well-being.
- cassidius 1mo ago
  Except that your children are still vectors for getting others sick. Vaccines are there not just for you but your community.
  - ifyoubuildit 1mo ago
    Vaccines that have a large impact on transmission and infection are there not just for you but for your community. The covid shots were good against hospitalization and death in older folks, but they were not great at preventing infection or transmission (despite what you may have gleaned from the speakers blaring ads in every public setting for all that time). You can fall back to the "flooding the hospitals" argument, that works a little better here.
    - estearum 1mo ago
      You're misinterpreting data here. You are conflating the fact that the clinical trials didn't measure infection/transmission (which is very hard to do in a clinical trial) with the distinct claim that they didn't reduce transmission in reality. The vaccines were extremely effective at reducing transmission during the first waves of COVID, where such an intervention was most valuable. And due to viral growth dynamics, even small reductions in transmission yield big net outcomes. 50% - 70% reduction in transmission: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597 Later waves made the vaccine much less effective at reducing transmission, but still highly effective at reducing hospital utilization which is (despite your snarky aside), extremely valuable. Fatality rates doubled when ERs hit full capacity.
dosisking 1mo ago
[flagged]
- SideburnsOfDoom 1mo ago
  Who is "they" ? And are they in the room with you now?

declan_roberts 1mo ago

I can't speak for other people but I was upset to enter a medical era where bureaucrats were forcing medical decisions on me. I was forced to get it or lose my job despite 1) working remotely, 2) having already had Covid and 3) being healthy and not at risk of Covid death but being the largest risk for myocarditis.

martythemaniak 1mo ago
Is that when you entered that era? Or did you enter it when you were a newborn in the hospital, or a kid entering school?
searine 1mo ago
Because, it is always all about you...
- DaSHacka 1mo ago
  Clearly his issue is not understanding its actually all about 'grandma'.
  - declan_roberts 1mo ago
    "Think about grandma" was the covid version of "somebody think of the children"
    - DaSHacka 1mo ago
      Truly, it's the same moralizing appeal-to-emotion but with a different target ("you care about grandma, right? you wouldn't want her to die, right?"). I've always felt it was strange that the argument was (and still is!) largely blindly supported on HN, like haven't we heard this one before?
  - searine 1mo ago
    It's about protecting each other, basic empathy. Doing the bare minimum to and taking miniscule risk to protect the lives of people around you. Sorry that's hard to understand.
    - DaSHacka 1mo ago
      It is 'hard to understand' if you get harmed in the process. Hence the jokes about 'doing it for grandma', or 'screwing yourself over with lifelong complications for someone who's already 80.'
      - deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
- declan_roberts 1mo ago
  That's the definition of a personal decision.
  - searine 1mo ago
    I might decide to shit on your front porch every morning. It is the definition of a personal decision.
Arkhaine_kupo 1mo ago
> I was upset to enter a medical era Did we enter a new era or where you not paying attention or affecting you before? Reminds me of the old adage of: Q: "Why is no one speaking about this?" R: "Is no one talking about this, or are you just 20 and its the first time you are hearing about it?"
hdhdhsjsbdh 1mo ago
Americans are so silly. Resentful of being told to do anything for their own good or the good of others because of “individual liberty”, yet so willing to lick the boot of the police state and corrupt crony capitalists. Good news for you is that Elon went in and set the bureaucrats straight, so enjoy your diarrhea and glass in your food.
dosisking 1mo ago
[flagged]
BigTTYGothGF 1mo ago
> I was upset to enter a medical era where bureaucrats were forcing medical decisions on me We've been in that era your whole life.

zulux 1mo ago

[flagged]

martythemaniak 1mo ago
You got RFK because half the population thought they were unique snowflakes who could not abide by the same simple rules as everyone else. The price he'll extract is significant impacts on health, wealth and well-being.
cassidius 1mo ago
Except that your children are still vectors for getting others sick. Vaccines are there not just for you but your community.
- ifyoubuildit 1mo ago
  Vaccines that have a large impact on transmission and infection are there not just for you but for your community. The covid shots were good against hospitalization and death in older folks, but they were not great at preventing infection or transmission (despite what you may have gleaned from the speakers blaring ads in every public setting for all that time). You can fall back to the "flooding the hospitals" argument, that works a little better here.
  - estearum 1mo ago
    You're misinterpreting data here. You are conflating the fact that the clinical trials didn't measure infection/transmission (which is very hard to do in a clinical trial) with the distinct claim that they didn't reduce transmission in reality. The vaccines were extremely effective at reducing transmission during the first waves of COVID, where such an intervention was most valuable. And due to viral growth dynamics, even small reductions in transmission yield big net outcomes. 50% - 70% reduction in transmission: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597 Later waves made the vaccine much less effective at reducing transmission, but still highly effective at reducing hospital utilization which is (despite your snarky aside), extremely valuable. Fatality rates doubled when ERs hit full capacity.

dosisking 1mo ago

[flagged]

SideburnsOfDoom 1mo ago
Who is "they" ? And are they in the room with you now?