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> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is prob

> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

karmakurtisaani 2mo ago
I feel like when young people think they want to do significant and meaningful things, they think about things that will make them famous in one way or another. Most of such things are neither significant nor meaningful.
- russelldjimmy 2mo ago
  This is very true :) I used to think this way, and then I realised that I actually want to be famous and respected. After some time, I realised that I just wanted the approval of people. And finally I realised all I wanted was to feel loved and cared for.
  - JKCalhoun 2mo ago
    Or perhaps you simply just wanted to finally love yourself.
    - russelldjimmy 1mo ago
      Indeed that seems like the next logical step
- khazhoux 2mo ago
  That's unnecessarily pessimistic. I think it's much more common for drive people to want to make a significant positive impact on the world, rather than becoming famous. Doesn't matter either way, though, once you realize you're just a blip like the other 8,000,000,000 people on this earth.
Gareth321 2mo ago
Agreed. I'm well travelled. Have had a very fun and satisfying dating life. A great career. Accomplished many life goals. Nothing comes close to fatherhood. Which frustrates me immensely, because I feel that society at large did everything it could to convince me that parenthood is terrible. Movies and TV shows portrayed only the bad. Teachers told me that becoming a parent was the worst thing in the whole world. A wide range of celebrities spend their days posting about how amazing it is to be without children. I accept that there are some parents out there who regret their decision, but research shows them to be a vanishingly small minority. The VAST majority of parents report greater meaning, more love, personal growth, enjoyment, fulfillment, etc. Something has become quite sick in modern society when we provide such an imbalanced and untrue message to young people.
- afc 2mo ago
  Interesting perspective. Your first paragraph also describes my experience, perfectly. However, even though I also think nothing comes even close to parenthood for me, my perspective is that society strongly encourages —I'd even say strongly pressures— people to have kids, to feel that if you don't, it's almost like something is wrong with you. Maybe we're just different generations? :-)
  - kakacik 2mo ago
    No modern western society does that, for quite some time. Maybe specific people around you behave so, but society as a whole? Nah
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - thenoblesunfish 2mo ago
    I think it's social pressure in some cultures, but even in those (sub)cultures which don't have the explicit pressure to have kids, people have a drive to procreate. I cannot tell you how many couples I know who decided they would not have kids, or would only have one, and at a certain point one partner (usually a woman in their late 30s or early 40s if I am being honest) decided this was the most important thing and no amount of money or career setbacks or relationship turmoil wouldn stand in the way.
alphabeta3r56 2mo ago
Why? Noy disputing you but I am childless yet primarily I cannot think why bringing up a kid would be significant or meaningful. Like once I have a kid, then that kid has to be the most significant part of my life. But before that, why?
- enjrolas 2mo ago
  As a parent, I get to give you The Most Infuriating Answer: once you have kids, you'll understand.
  - ignoramous 2mo ago
    Some do try: It's difficult to explain ... an intensely personal experience. Every child is different. Every parent is different. Every culture has their own way of doing things ... yet children are the one universally shared thing that binds our giant collective together ... When I am holding Henry and I tickle him, I can feel him laughing all the way to his toes. And I realize, my God, I had forgotten ... how unbelievably wonderful it is that any of us exist at all. Here I am with this tiny, warm body so close to me, breathing so fast he can barely catch up, sharing his newfound joy of simply being alive with me. The sublime joy of this moment, and all the other milestones – the first smile, the first laugh, the first 'dada' or 'mama' ... The highs are so incredibly high that you'll get vertigo and wonder if you can ever reach that feeling again. But you peak ever higher and higher, with dizzying regularity ... a constant rollercoaster of extreme highs and lows. On Parenthood, https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood / https://archive.vn/zxDzb https://archive.vn/zxDzb (Oct 2011).
  - kmarc 2mo ago
    Except... a million reasons where they will either not understand, or they should have not become a parent. The problem with the "The Most Infuriating Answer" is that it entirely neglects facts, and only those say it who do have a good experience with it. Happy for you, internet stranger. Just like I am happy for all of those around me: you all are the ones who do good parenting. In case you also want to become a better person in general, I recommend to stop being condescending, and not to say this ever again to anyone. You hurt more than you think you are wise.
pipes 2mo ago
Exactly how I feel too. They bring magic into my life that I didn't even know I was missing. I'll be sad when they grow up and leave.
coffeebeqn 2mo ago
Absolutely. What happened to the old “no one ever wishes they’d worked more on their deathbed”?
RunSet 2mo ago
> Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life. That might say more about what you haven't done than what you have. "First-time fathers show longitudinal gray matter cortical volume reductions: evidence from two international samples" https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/33/7/4156/6691667 https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/33/7/4156/6691667
sneak 2mo ago
Everybody says that because it makes them feel good. In reality, simply adding more children to the pool doesn’t accomplish anything real.
bluebarbet 2mo ago
It's said by lots of people every time this subject comes up, it's obviously true, but IMO it's also a little tautological. I read it as essentially: "I created a massive problem to solve, and here I am successfully solving it." Of course it's meaningful. Of course it's significant.
abc123abc123 2mo ago
Would that be true if your child turned out to be a new Hitler or a burden on society? Personally, I'm with the OP. Raising children, and to do a good job at it, is waaaay too much of a burden for me, and would seriously negatively affect most areas of my life. I find it much more meaningful to focus on creating jobs, companies, products and services people need, than to raise a child with unknown outcome. I see way too many parents who try and appear as if they are happy and say they don't regret the decision, but deep down it is clear they do. That is why, many of them, once the children are somewhat grown up, split up from their partner, and then try to re-live their lives and all that they missed.
fdgfikgfv 1mo ago
I love my kids and would do anything for them. But at the same time, I really don't feel it is a big deal. Humans and animals been having kids for millions of years. It is just basic animal instinct to procreate and raise your offspring. It is like basic human instinct is to consume and store calories. And there is nothing wrong with it. But to become athlete and win a gold medal, that requires going against these basic instincts. That means eating healthier and working out instead of preserving calories. Having kids is great but to achieve something great in life, does require going against your basic instincts and not procreate. Or if you do have kids, then not be a good parent. I had my startup dreams but after having kids, biology kicked in and startup dreams got deprioritized. But I made peace with it and I enjoy my quiet basic life with my kids. I just know I will not do anything significant and that is totally okay.
siren2026 1mo ago
When I hear people say this with all the morale high ground that comes with it I’m always wondering if it’s partially because of some hormonal changes. It has been proven recently that the human brain changes after having kids. I know you didn’t intend it that way but there are so many people that are extremely judgmental about having kids (or rather judging people that don’t have kids). I also understand that it’s such a hard task that there must be some level of self convincing needed to make it work. All that to say, i tend to dismiss those opinions.
- a_c 1mo ago
  I feel that physical change the moment I saw my son first time. Something snapped/connected in my brain. I will do anything for that little thing. The feeling is visceral. It is very hard not to preach your best experience to others
  - marssaxman 1mo ago
    That added some intensity behind my motivation to avoid parenthood: so many people describe having their brains hijacked in this way that I could not be sure I would be immune. Best steer far clear, I thought.
- ytoawwhra92 1mo ago
  I mean the obvious retort to this is that until you become a parent all of your behaviour is probably driven by some deep evolutionary desire to demonstrate your suitability as a mate. So we can dismiss opinions of non-parents as well.
  - siren2026 1mo ago
    Ideally we should discuss all those behaviour (becoming parents, becoming successful) logically without the hormones and feelings that makes you think they are the most important thing in the world. Essentially discussing facts versus emotions. Almost every parent in this discussion uses emotions to justify why they are doing the grandest accomplishment in the world by being a parent.
marssaxman 1mo ago
I am aware that this is true for many people, and I am glad it works for you. For me, it is a completely different category of experience.
siren2026 1mo ago
Is it really? How much of that is a "feeling" that evolution made you feel in order to protect your kid from issues? having kids is the baseline normal for millions of years. As much as you "feel" that this is the most important thing you ever did, it is worth taking a step back and think rationally about this. Is it really? What about it makes it SO important? Because we for sure are not going extinct at all. Having a lot of kids has always been the default. If you don't have kids the world will be absolutely fine, in fact nothing will change at all. So you should ask yourself. Why is it the most meaningful thing you ever did? Because it is YOUR DNA? Isn't that then a completely self-centered pursuit?
- mikemarsh 1mo ago
  Any kind of accomplishment outside of having kids could also be boiled down to an "evolutionary" drive for status, power, belonging, etc. Why is this nihilist lens applied selectively to one pursuit and not others?
  - siren2026 1mo ago
    They should absolutely all be discussed. I just don't see a lot of rationale that supports that having kids is the "biggest accomplishment of a lifetime" though. There is inherently nothing very special, unique or difficult about it. It has always been the normal things that happen to most humans and animals since the dawns of time. If you respond to this, please use rationale and not feelings to describe why having kids is the "biggest achievement from your lifetime".
    - ytoawwhra92 1mo ago
      There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to be among those who come after.
  - fdgfikgfv 1mo ago
    [dead]

karmakurtisaani 2mo ago

I feel like when young people think they want to do significant and meaningful things, they think about things that will make them famous in one way or another. Most of such things are neither significant nor meaningful.

russelldjimmy 2mo ago
This is very true :) I used to think this way, and then I realised that I actually want to be famous and respected. After some time, I realised that I just wanted the approval of people. And finally I realised all I wanted was to feel loved and cared for.
- JKCalhoun 2mo ago
  Or perhaps you simply just wanted to finally love yourself.
  - russelldjimmy 1mo ago
    Indeed that seems like the next logical step
khazhoux 2mo ago
That's unnecessarily pessimistic. I think it's much more common for drive people to want to make a significant positive impact on the world, rather than becoming famous. Doesn't matter either way, though, once you realize you're just a blip like the other 8,000,000,000 people on this earth.

Gareth321 2mo ago

Agreed. I'm well travelled. Have had a very fun and satisfying dating life. A great career. Accomplished many life goals. Nothing comes close to fatherhood. Which frustrates me immensely, because I feel that society at large did everything it could to convince me that parenthood is terrible. Movies and TV shows portrayed only the bad. Teachers told me that becoming a parent was the worst thing in the whole world. A wide range of celebrities spend their days posting about how amazing it is to be without children. I accept that there are some parents out there who regret their decision, but research shows them to be a vanishingly small minority. The VAST majority of parents report greater meaning, more love, personal growth, enjoyment, fulfillment, etc. Something has become quite sick in modern society when we provide such an imbalanced and untrue message to young people.

afc 2mo ago
Interesting perspective. Your first paragraph also describes my experience, perfectly. However, even though I also think nothing comes even close to parenthood for me, my perspective is that society strongly encourages —I'd even say strongly pressures— people to have kids, to feel that if you don't, it's almost like something is wrong with you. Maybe we're just different generations? :-)
- kakacik 2mo ago
  No modern western society does that, for quite some time. Maybe specific people around you behave so, but society as a whole? Nah
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- thenoblesunfish 2mo ago
  I think it's social pressure in some cultures, but even in those (sub)cultures which don't have the explicit pressure to have kids, people have a drive to procreate. I cannot tell you how many couples I know who decided they would not have kids, or would only have one, and at a certain point one partner (usually a woman in their late 30s or early 40s if I am being honest) decided this was the most important thing and no amount of money or career setbacks or relationship turmoil wouldn stand in the way.

alphabeta3r56 2mo ago

Why? Noy disputing you but I am childless yet primarily I cannot think why bringing up a kid would be significant or meaningful. Like once I have a kid, then that kid has to be the most significant part of my life. But before that, why?

enjrolas 2mo ago
As a parent, I get to give you The Most Infuriating Answer: once you have kids, you'll understand.
- ignoramous 2mo ago
  Some do try: It's difficult to explain ... an intensely personal experience. Every child is different. Every parent is different. Every culture has their own way of doing things ... yet children are the one universally shared thing that binds our giant collective together ... When I am holding Henry and I tickle him, I can feel him laughing all the way to his toes. And I realize, my God, I had forgotten ... how unbelievably wonderful it is that any of us exist at all. Here I am with this tiny, warm body so close to me, breathing so fast he can barely catch up, sharing his newfound joy of simply being alive with me. The sublime joy of this moment, and all the other milestones – the first smile, the first laugh, the first 'dada' or 'mama' ... The highs are so incredibly high that you'll get vertigo and wonder if you can ever reach that feeling again. But you peak ever higher and higher, with dizzying regularity ... a constant rollercoaster of extreme highs and lows. On Parenthood, https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood / https://archive.vn/zxDzb https://archive.vn/zxDzb (Oct 2011).
- kmarc 2mo ago
  Except... a million reasons where they will either not understand, or they should have not become a parent. The problem with the "The Most Infuriating Answer" is that it entirely neglects facts, and only those say it who do have a good experience with it. Happy for you, internet stranger. Just like I am happy for all of those around me: you all are the ones who do good parenting. In case you also want to become a better person in general, I recommend to stop being condescending, and not to say this ever again to anyone. You hurt more than you think you are wise.

pipes 2mo ago

Exactly how I feel too. They bring magic into my life that I didn't even know I was missing. I'll be sad when they grow up and leave.

coffeebeqn 2mo ago

Absolutely. What happened to the old “no one ever wishes they’d worked more on their deathbed”?

RunSet 2mo ago

> Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life. That might say more about what you haven't done than what you have. "First-time fathers show longitudinal gray matter cortical volume reductions: evidence from two international samples" https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/33/7/4156/6691667 https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/33/7/4156/6691667

sneak 2mo ago

Everybody says that because it makes them feel good. In reality, simply adding more children to the pool doesn’t accomplish anything real.

bluebarbet 2mo ago

It's said by lots of people every time this subject comes up, it's obviously true, but IMO it's also a little tautological. I read it as essentially: "I created a massive problem to solve, and here I am successfully solving it." Of course it's meaningful. Of course it's significant.

abc123abc123 2mo ago

Would that be true if your child turned out to be a new Hitler or a burden on society? Personally, I'm with the OP. Raising children, and to do a good job at it, is waaaay too much of a burden for me, and would seriously negatively affect most areas of my life. I find it much more meaningful to focus on creating jobs, companies, products and services people need, than to raise a child with unknown outcome. I see way too many parents who try and appear as if they are happy and say they don't regret the decision, but deep down it is clear they do. That is why, many of them, once the children are somewhat grown up, split up from their partner, and then try to re-live their lives and all that they missed.

fdgfikgfv 1mo ago

I love my kids and would do anything for them. But at the same time, I really don't feel it is a big deal. Humans and animals been having kids for millions of years. It is just basic animal instinct to procreate and raise your offspring. It is like basic human instinct is to consume and store calories. And there is nothing wrong with it. But to become athlete and win a gold medal, that requires going against these basic instincts. That means eating healthier and working out instead of preserving calories. Having kids is great but to achieve something great in life, does require going against your basic instincts and not procreate. Or if you do have kids, then not be a good parent. I had my startup dreams but after having kids, biology kicked in and startup dreams got deprioritized. But I made peace with it and I enjoy my quiet basic life with my kids. I just know I will not do anything significant and that is totally okay.

siren2026 1mo ago

When I hear people say this with all the morale high ground that comes with it I’m always wondering if it’s partially because of some hormonal changes. It has been proven recently that the human brain changes after having kids. I know you didn’t intend it that way but there are so many people that are extremely judgmental about having kids (or rather judging people that don’t have kids). I also understand that it’s such a hard task that there must be some level of self convincing needed to make it work. All that to say, i tend to dismiss those opinions.

a_c 1mo ago
I feel that physical change the moment I saw my son first time. Something snapped/connected in my brain. I will do anything for that little thing. The feeling is visceral. It is very hard not to preach your best experience to others
- marssaxman 1mo ago
  That added some intensity behind my motivation to avoid parenthood: so many people describe having their brains hijacked in this way that I could not be sure I would be immune. Best steer far clear, I thought.
ytoawwhra92 1mo ago
I mean the obvious retort to this is that until you become a parent all of your behaviour is probably driven by some deep evolutionary desire to demonstrate your suitability as a mate. So we can dismiss opinions of non-parents as well.
- siren2026 1mo ago
  Ideally we should discuss all those behaviour (becoming parents, becoming successful) logically without the hormones and feelings that makes you think they are the most important thing in the world. Essentially discussing facts versus emotions. Almost every parent in this discussion uses emotions to justify why they are doing the grandest accomplishment in the world by being a parent.

marssaxman 1mo ago

I am aware that this is true for many people, and I am glad it works for you. For me, it is a completely different category of experience.

siren2026 1mo ago

Is it really? How much of that is a "feeling" that evolution made you feel in order to protect your kid from issues? having kids is the baseline normal for millions of years. As much as you "feel" that this is the most important thing you ever did, it is worth taking a step back and think rationally about this. Is it really? What about it makes it SO important? Because we for sure are not going extinct at all. Having a lot of kids has always been the default. If you don't have kids the world will be absolutely fine, in fact nothing will change at all. So you should ask yourself. Why is it the most meaningful thing you ever did? Because it is YOUR DNA? Isn't that then a completely self-centered pursuit?

mikemarsh 1mo ago
Any kind of accomplishment outside of having kids could also be boiled down to an "evolutionary" drive for status, power, belonging, etc. Why is this nihilist lens applied selectively to one pursuit and not others?
- siren2026 1mo ago
  They should absolutely all be discussed. I just don't see a lot of rationale that supports that having kids is the "biggest accomplishment of a lifetime" though. There is inherently nothing very special, unique or difficult about it. It has always been the normal things that happen to most humans and animals since the dawns of time. If you respond to this, please use rationale and not feelings to describe why having kids is the "biggest achievement from your lifetime".
  - ytoawwhra92 1mo ago
    There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to be among those who come after.
- fdgfikgfv 1mo ago
  [dead]