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The Gift
- leibniz 14y agoI would have loved to see this beautifully written, touching story without mentioning any form or idea of God.
- tptacek 14y agoThank you, you just won me $20.
- MattSayar 14y agoDoes HN's predictability ever perturb you?
- larrys 14y agoI won $50 for correctly predicting that Paul wouldn't change the picture that appears with the assault rifle.
- Scramblejams 14y agoThat one was like taking candy from a baby. I hope you at least offered them a time limit, so there was SOME element of sport to it. :-)
- venus 14y agoWho was stupid enough to take the opposite bet? Of course polluting an otherwise touching and thought-provoking essay with God Talk provokes moans from those of us, thankfully many, who have no wish to see it. It's as if someone took a few beautiful pictures of picturesque landscapes and then in the last few shots the bottom of the photo included their stinky foot and some empty cans of Bud Light. You could make $20 predicting the moans about that, too.
- charlieok 14y agoNot I. Paul Buchheit is sharing a deeply personal account of what is most important to him and why. If that includes some form or idea of God, why should he leave it out?
- paul 14y agoThen you don't understand. One needn't believe in anything metaphysical to appreciate the power of a concept.
- 3pt14159 14y agoMaybe he did understand, yet disagreed with your characterization of a large set of people's beliefs. Literally comparing what some view as the cornerstone of their religion with rape does not belong on this board. What does belong is the heart wrenching story of prioritization of life following the death of a family member, same with complications of a daughter. Many of us are planning on having children soon, so the perspective is very interesting.
- tptacek 14y agoAs a Catholic I also object to Paul's failure to venerate the Virgin Mary. You know what I think would make this posting better? If 'pg added a feature I just came up with to HN that allows us to collaboratively edit Paul Buchheit's stories as if they were Wikipedia articles or Stack Overflow answers. I bet, as a group, we'd sure do a great job of capturing what Paul thinks about what's important in life, and also we could better inform people about why they shouldn't use vi because modal editors are relics best left to the 1970s.
- paul 14y agoI care about the world that my daughter will grow up in, and I think it's important for people to understand that love isn't something that can ever be given or taken by force. It must be a gift.
- diego 14y agoYou phrased that in an ambiguous way. I believe you mean that the gift is being able to feel love, not the love itself. Loving someone may cause you to give "gifts" to that person, but the love itself is not a gift to them. You are the one enjoying that gift from life.
- corry 14y agoI disagree. If God was integral to his experience, why should he self-censor that? I'd much rather read a truthful account of his experiences than a white-washed one. Thanks for sharing, Paul.
- xxpor 14y agos/God/idea of goodness/g. Better? I believe Paul is really referring to an abstract concept here, not what most people think of as God.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoI've come to realize that some people are afraid of the concept of God. This fear manifests it in several ways. My mother-in-law is afraid of dying. But more than a healthy respect that one might expect with regards to ceasing to exist, so afraid that she cannot talk about it. She cannot utter its possibility, nor conceive thoughts which involve a state of the world in which she is no longer living. It really puts a crimp in estate planning as you might imagine. Here is a person who refuses to write a last will and testament. The will is only a useful document when you are dead, and to think about the things you put into a will you have to start with "ok so when I am dead ..." And for her, she will not think that thought. She cannot even think of being dead in the abstract her fear is that powerful. I've met people who respond that way thinking about God. Abstract or not, conversational or theological, just can't go there. My Dad is like that. Its because he has combined the notions of "God" (sort of the abstract concept that Paul talks about of forgiveness and love) with "Religion" which Paul talks about as using Fear and Greed to exhort behaviors. It is sad when being unable to think thoughts about a subject causes hurt to those you love. Their love prevents them from bringing it up, and the circle is complete.
- theorique 14y agoInteresting point. As a teen-aged atheist and Ayn Rand fan, I was so determinedly atheistic that I couldn't use the word "god" even in a metaphorical way. Perhaps I was afraid of the concept (or afraid of what devout believers would do to me). My literalism probably interfered with effective communication at times. Nowadays I aim to focus on the underlying intent, rather than the literal meaning. God is a fairly abstract, catch-all word that can mean a lot of different things to different people.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago"God is a fairly abstract, catch-all word that can mean a lot of different things to different people." Exactly right.
- endlessvoid94 14y agoHe even told you he was going to be speaking abstractly, and you still had to go and say it.
- theorique 14y agoYou could replace it with "Universe" or "everything that exists" or "total consciousness" or "enlightened perception" or "stillness" or any number of words or phrases...
- Xcelerate 14y agoIf your post has a point other than to provoke people, I don't see what it is. You and I both know there are plenty of people on HN who both believe and don't believe in God, and you had to have known that a comment like this would cause contention and detract from the point of Paul's post.
- leibniz 14y agoI think the point of the essay is perfectly made without the final part about God. I found the perfect rhythm of the essay got broken at bit this point, and that's why I'd loved to see it without it.
- ianstallings 14y agoWell you have a keyboard and can post to the Internet right? I'll be awaiting your essay.
- leibniz 14y agoI think it is a great essay with a misleading end.
- npt4279 14y agoThank you for sharing this. Words really can't express how this article made me feel... but it's rare for something I've read on HN to cause me to take a step back and reflect on what's important in life.
- not_that_noob 14y agoWhat an amazingly insightful post. Thank you for sharing.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoI really love the honesty of this piece. I also feel that the message about being thankful and forgiving is very important. Life is too short to hold on to anger, and too wonderful to wait to embrace its gifts.
- Alex3917 14y agoOver the last couple years I've noticed a lot of successful businesses with unconditional love as the core value proposition. Nothing at anywhere near a global scale though. At the risk of coming across as being more cynical than usual, I think this is a space with a lot of opportunity.
- mahesh_rm 14y agoThis is the single more cynical entry I have ever read before. "There's an opportunity in unconditional love". It may sound like dividing by 0. May be it is not the case. Christian Church has definitely been riding the unconditional love opportunity for millenia. It is perhaps the time for Her to be disrupted. Google vs God, may be the title of an interesting movie.
- Alex3917 14y agoI was actually thinking more like burning man, but same idea. I didn't actually mean it in a cynical way though, nor do I think that it's inherently cynical in any way unless you think that it's not possible for capitalism to benefit society. If you watch the movie Better Living Through Circuitry, it gives a really good look at the psychology of the people who are heavily into rave culture, and there seems to be a strong need for more things that meet those sorts of psychological needs in society. Also, if you watch Neal Goldsmith's talk about the need for unconditional love for promoting proper psychospiritual development, I think there begins to emerge a clear blueprint for architecting more systems around this: http://vimeo.com/16260822 http://vimeo.com/16260822 What if someone made a social network that revolved around unconditional love, where social interactions were subtly designed in ways to promote community and psychospiritual development? I think something like that would have a real chance at blowing Facebook out of the water.
- mahesh_rm 14y agoI totally agree. Identity and Spirituality are two of the strongest - despite them being at the highest Maslowian order - needs of the human being, when interacting in highly adapted - always Maslowian meaning - societies. This [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uwr9JT-nk4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uwr9JT-nk4 ] is as enlightening as it is old. Despite Kinski being sometimes a jerk, he was a social genius in putting these themes forward to society.
- ececconi 14y ago"Death strips away everything that doesn't matter." Extremely powerful sentence.
- datums 14y agoThe birth of a child does something very similar, but in a joyful way. Wasted time (TV , useless relationships) becomes better moments. It's gradual unlike death were you can have a clean slate.
- ericfrenkiel 14y agoone of the most powerful essays I've ever read.
- thoughtcriminal 14y agoGod's love is eternal and it is perfect, but it's not unconditional. That's fair. That makes more sense than God loving an axe-wielding rapist as much as Mother Theresa.
- eps 14y agoI can't make any sense out of what you said.
- paul 14y agoAn axe-wielding rapist is mentally sick. I would still love my children, even if they had a horrible sickness. Love is not a reward.
- thoughtcriminal 14y agoAll evil can't be blamed on mental illness Paul, but that kind of evil is certainly unfathomable by us. Riveting article btw. Incredible what you have been through. I was happy to read your daughter is well!
- jlgreco 14y agoCan you make the decision to be evil, or is evilness an inherent property of someone? If evil is a decision, how could you make the decision to be evil? Deciding to be evil would itself be an evil act. It is an infinite regress. If evil is built in, how could you possibly respect a god that punishes what it creates for being as it created it?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Crake 14y ago>An axe-wielding rapist is mentally sick. As is the god found in the bible, if you've ever read it start to finish instead of (like most people) cherrypicking choice quotes from what you heard the pastor tell you some sunday morning.
- 14y ago
- zgm 14y ago"Statistically, there does not appear to be much of a genetic component to pancreatic cancer, but still, I worried. How much longer do I have? Could there be a tumor growing inside of me at this very moment?" I lost my father to pancreatic cancer when I was only 18. Even though I'm only 20, this is something I constantly have in the back of my head. Although I don't live each day exactly like it's my last, I no longer stress out over small things and am a lot more questioning of the decisions I make. Death really does strip away everything doesn't matter.
- Ramario 14y agoThanks for sharing such a personal experience Paul. This article resonated with me deeply. I also wonder about God and try to make sense of my own existence. Great post!
- NanoWar 14y agoIt's a pity that there always has to happen something terrible for one to realise that life is a gift. Then suddenly critisism of Islam. It doesn't make sense. Oh well. Why must there always be a good and a bad god?
- michaelochurch 14y agoThe vast majority of Muslims do not believe in the 72 virgins, any more than Christians believe in harps and literal "pearly gates".
- jacquesm 14y agoRe. your 2nd. point: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609399 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609399
- jspthrowaway2 14y agoIt's a pity that you read it as criticism of Islam as a whole when it was, in fact, criticism of a god that promises 72 virgins. Though somewhat related, those are orthogonal concepts. Having grown up Mormon, I 100% agree with him and am capable of realizing the basis of fear inherent to the common gods. You, like many in this thread, are personalizing something that Paul didn't actually say because it's important to you and you're ready to defend it. Objectivity is not a strong point when it generally comes to the religious; I'm sorry to paint with so broad a brush, but that's on display here. The mere mention of a-god-like-concept has put a number of folks here into a tizzy, and it's sad.
- NanoWar 14y agoSo you thought the same thing :)
- jspthrowaway2 14y agoNo, I didn't.
- brunomiranda 14y agoCould note have said this better myself.
- callmeed 14y agoThis was a really good post, but I'm going to be totally honest: my eye kept being drawn to an avatar of you holding (what appears to be) an assault rifle and smiling. It seems strange considering the topic. Again, no offense is meant. Maybe its also due to recent events, but it seems odd.
- tptacek 14y agoYou're really good at these essays. If you haven't already listened to it, you might like "What Is The Light", from "The Soft Bulletin" by The Flaming Lips. It's a bit on-the-nose but is basically a poetic encapsulation of what you just wrote; Wayne Coyne wrote many of the songs on that album while metabolizing the death of his father, and pulls it off without ever becoming funereal or morose. I can't quite put my finger on why but have always felt that album --- basically one of the three best pop/rock albums of the last 20 years --- was uncannily resonant for (our yes yes lazily romanticized concept of) entrepreneurs.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- paul 14y agoThank you. I'll check it out.
- davidu 14y agoWorth adding, that "yoshimi battles the pink robots" is an amazing album by the same band about a woman's battle with cancer, and love, and loss. It was just turned into an amazing play (technically an opera (rock opera!) since it's just the album being acted out on stage with very few words added) that is being performed at the La Jolla Playhouse in San Diego (The home to Tommy, Rent*, Jersey Boys, and many other breakthrough plays). I saw the play, and it's really terrific, especially since almost everyone has a connection to cancer and loss. And the music is terrific.
- _feda_ 14y agoI think the song "Do you realize" by the same artist is even more apt. "do you realize / that everyone you know / someday / will die"
- jspthrowaway2 14y agoI'm going to avoid commenting on this essay beyond saying Paul, thank you very much for sharing it. I've been circling the drain for the last few weeks due to relentless problems in my personal life, and you've reminded me that there is something worth living for inside all of us. Your essay was precisely what I needed. Though I don't know you, this piece has changed my life in a way that you'll probably never know, and I owe you a lot. I'm sure it's the same for many others. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for ignoring the haters who are bringing noise to you on the discussion of God.
- stevenj 14y ago>From my brother, I received a personal understanding of death, and a constant reminder to live my life as though it may end at any moment. I'm not sure how to really ask this, but what does it mean to live your life as though it may end at any moment? For example, does that literally mean to pursue today as if you could really be gone tomorrow? And if so, how? Does it mean that if you really want to go sky diving you should do it soon (i.e. now)? If you've been thinking about moving to another place for a while, but just keep putting it off for semi-trivial reasons, should you just go and see what happens? I've heard people say that they live each day as if it could be their last, but I'm not sure what that means, practically speaking. There have been several things that I wish I'd done, looking back, but I didn't mostly out of fear. The idea of living each day as if it could be your last has always intrigued me.
- kjackson2012 14y agoTo me, it doesn't mean go skydiving or spend all your money and go partying every day. It means stop living in fear, and stop distracting yourself with bullshit. Lots of people are afraid of the shame of failure, the shame of rejection, etc. If you really were going to die tomorrow, it would strip away all the fear that you have of living with this burden. I've been through some health scares and believe me, there is nothing more sobering than being in an MRI machine looking for a brain tumor. All the day-to-day bullshit that many people worry about, like "Why didn't I get that promotion" or "I really want that car" gets stripped away pretty quick, and the things that really matter surface immediately.
- 1123581321 14y agoI find it to be a balance. In the short-term, I want everything I do to make things better for others if I were to suddenly collapse. To use Paul's example, I want to do the dishes and not leave them for someone else. I also think it means pursuing big, important goals like fixing a broken neighborhood, writing a book, and so on. If I die in the middle of one of these projects, I probably leave small messes in neglected areas for someone to clean up, but it's worth the risk and why it's important to start as soon as possible and work quickly. Thankfully a lot of things don't require that trade; for example, being a good dad to my children means teaching them to take care of small things and is also part of a long-term goal. There are other things like this. I think there is certainly a place for hedonistic activities like travel and skydiving, but not destructive ones like criminal activity or breaking a relationship to pursue another one.
- zarg 14y agoWow - this was an incredible read. thank you!
- edw519 14y agoI've always found it interesting that we techies generally avoid reinventing the wheel in our work but feel compelled to reinvent it in matters of spiritually. We're not the first to experience these thoughts and feelings and certainly won't be the last. I suspect much of the reason is that the users manuals and wikis that resulted from thousands of years of human wonderings have been so misunderstood and misappropriated for other purposes. This post reminded me of the ancient Hebrew book of Koheleth, which was translated into the Greek Ecclesiastes. About a man who wondered about many of the same things Paul brought up. Like many of us, Koheleth tried all sort of strategies to find meaning and be happy: to be rich, to be learned, to have fun, etc. In the end, all he could surmise was that each day was a gift and to make the most of it. Pretty good lesson, I think. Thanks, Paul, for the reminder.
- saraid216 14y agoSpirituality is very often a personal expression, and as such deserves to be reinvented individually to the extent each individual wishes to. Even then, the vast majority of us call APIs and include libraries with varying levels of strictness and freely fork existing repositories. Is it really so different after all? // Submit pull request #5602 to apostlepaul/Christianity.
- Alex3917 14y ago"Spirituality is very often a personal expression, and as such deserves to be reinvented individually to the extent each individual wishes to." I've mentioned this before on HN, but I tend to take the view that spirituality isn't something vague or abstract, but rather it's something that's fairly concrete to the point of being almost measurable. My working definition is that spirituality is basically the sum total of all your relationships. That is, your relationship with yourself, with others, your work, the food you eat, your religious practices, etc. And I would define spiritual experiences as those that have implications relating to these relationships or otherwise prompt one to reevaluate them. That's fairly similar definition to the definition that Wikipedia gives, but I think mine is a little more actionable and also more understandable to those without any sort of academic training in religious studies.
- OmarIsmail 14y agoI think there's another misconception here, or rather an incorrect conflation of two things: Unconditional love and the concept of Hell. The two are not mutually exclusive. Even though you love your child unconditionally that doesn't mean you'll never punish them. Also the concept of God becomes substantially less abstract when you think of it (at least from the traditional monotheist perspective) as the "Creator" and the "Created".
- Crake 14y agoWould you punish your unconditionally loved child by dropping them into a volcano for eating at red lobster? There's spankings, and then there's the whole mass murder/eternal damnation combo thing.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jacquesm 14y agoThat's one amazing girl you've got Paul, a bit late but congratulations! One of my sons was born premature and I remember the hospital visits and the incubator all too clearly.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- aswanson 14y agoThere was a time in my life where I distrusted anything that smacked of spirituality. Everything had to be logical. I realized later that I was performing a hysterectomy on my soul. Without confronting, examining and reflecting on these experiences, you may as well be an automata. Thanks, Paul.
- ElliotH 14y agoA lot of people are complaining about the 'God' concept introduced in the latter half of the post. I think a lot of this is that people are pattern-matching 'God' with the huge amount of baggage that the term has rightfully accumulated. I started reading the article in full (having read the criticism first), and soon realised that the god notion described doesn't really match anything in traditional religion, or anything that one would typically criticise. The god introduced doesn't seem to require anything tangible from the reader or anyone who believes in such a god. It requires no submission, suffering, organisation or decrees. It simply makes an offer. (and it very expressly makes that offer within a fable, not a description of reality) The end paragraph is pretty hard to deny. You just needs to be careful not to associate your cached thoughts with the word 'God'. Essentially what the story concludes with is: love is a good thing; we should share it; and we should offer it to ourselves too[1]. This kind of love is most noticeable by its absence I think. After a couple of hard years, I recently looked back on the things that had been troubling me, and noticed that throughout it I had been very hard on myself, and very hard on others. I think the god analogy as a source of love is one that is only useful to some people. I'm sure that making physical world predictions based on the existence of any higher power is sure to result in predictions that aren't useful. Regardless, the general point about love, suffering, loss, forgiveness and learning can be taken without changing personal beliefs, and without god. Equally, a very personal god who offers and requires only what Paul describes gives identical results. As such I argue that the god described has no need to be excluded from this essay, or Hacker News. I urge those criticising it to read it again with strict mental effort on avoiding the 'god = bad' association that one leaps to out of past experience. [1] (and it says this in an excellent way, and with more nuance than I describe, I know)
- VMG 14y ago> I think a lot of this is that people are pattern-matching 'God' with the huge amount of baggage that the term has rightfully accumulated. It's not "baggage" but "meaning". If you don't attribute intention, agency and potency to the "God" then you are just using words in a way they aren't intended to.
- erikpukinskis 14y ago
- VaedaStrike 14y agoCan unconditional love remove consequences? I think that is one of the potential problems in discerning between the "true God(s)" and the "false god(s)". Allow me to demonstrate what I mean. When you say "If a God threatens to send you to hell for loving the wrong person, it's a false God." it seems to imply a couple of things that must be accepted apriori to the statement- 1. That God stating what consequences will be for actions taken by us constitutes him ''threatening' rather than him explaining a cause and effect relationship. If I'm a genuine doctor and tell you that if you eat a certain piece of food that you will die or get sick I'm not threatening you. I'm simply pointing out the causality connected with an action to warn you. 2. That for any given person their loving of any other given person can/will never genuinely harm them. I don't know about you, but those conditions (which seem to be inherent to the view given here by Paul), are hard for me to accept just on mere assertion. I think that it is possible that two people loving each other, in certain contexts, can be detrimental to both of them. This whole 'love conquers all' thing depends very much on what you define 'love' to be. And, while I certainly can think of certain types of love that CAN AND SHOULD be universal, I can also think of types of love that can infringe on the previous types as well as carrying vast detrimental potential for all connected to them. Human connection, Human relations, intimacy, it all is very much a force of nature and, as such, has destructive potential. The next statement I fully agree with-- "If a God tells you to coerce people into worshiping him, it's a false God." but it also presents it's own complexity. As a father of 20 month old boy I run into situations all the time where there seems a thin line between guidance and coercion. In fact, throughout my life I've often found that many of the same principles that bind us in society, that make humanity work, are the very same ones that, without genuine love and genuine concern for the welfare of the person, are those which lead to things like Jonestown. Hence the shared root between "cult" and "culture." The very idea of turning earth (that is - to cultivate) implies applied force to direct natural processes to beneficial means. Who is benefiting is very much linked to the aim and not as much to the methods. The means of trying to encourage people to commit to some actions so as to, in some way, improve the welfare of the aforementioned people can virtually always (in my experience) be seen in a coercive light by those wanting to see such coercion. Yet if there is some true benevolent force, and a person knows about it, then is it not reasonable/logical, to expect said person to somehow convey access to that benevolent force's to others? Whether that's knowledge or some other beneficial thing? Where then do you draw the line between those who are actively trying to convince others that they've found some true benevolent reality that can, and seeks, to help others? Certainly some things seem obvious. It can't be something that is telling untruths. But, and this should be obvious to virtually all parents out there I'd suppose, there are times when, for the welfare of a child, it seems wise to withhold at times information OR to even go along with implicit appearances. An example I can think of would be where some things a parent has done prior to becoming a parent, say something like teenage-to-young-adult-years stupid kind of things. One doesn't generally go blurting those things out to a four or five year old when they ask some related innocent question. "Genuine, unconditional love is a gift that must be freely given and freely accepted, with nothing expected in return. Love can not be delivered at gun point, or with the threat of eternal damnation. That's more like rape." I have to say that this paragraph puts me in a light that I believe is a bit unique due to a personal experience. I'm presently in Lima, Peru. Here I have to take all kind of precautions due to being a tall white guy with a gringo accent. Otherwise I stand a good chance of being mugged. I know this because of an attempted robbery I already lived through where I was physically assaulted. That being said I've never felt hate here for being who I am. And I can say the same for virtually every where else I've been throughout my life, regardless of where or what context--with the exception of one place -- Santa Cruz, CA If you want to feel hated, and I mean something on the verge of knowing some of the people hating you have lynch mob like ideas entering their mind, go walking down Pacific Ave in Downtown Santa Cruz as a "Mormon" (LDS) Missionary (I imagine it could be even worse now post Prop. 8). For a land filled with hippiesque love and peace centric bumper-stickers and an intellectual heal the world, free love vibe all over I have NEVER felt so much hate or had so many people heckle and curse (most under their breath as we passed by but quite a few yelling loudly) me just for me being who I was. They knew nothing about me other than the fact that I had a well worn white shirt, a tie, and some slacks and a black lapel pin. They didn't know the missionary that was walking beside me was an intellectual Boston, MA native who converted in his early twenties. They didn't REALLY know much at all about me--but I was, in there eyes, someone who fit the very labels that Paul here associates with one who follows a "false god" and uses like methods to "rapists." Their own certitude of the pretexts upon which they saw me seemed to render them incapable of unconditional love. Contrary to the way they might have seen it, I was not there to condemn them, nor to coerce them to anything, nor to tell them not love someone, nor to offer a mob-esque protection arrangement. But that's how they all saw it. And so using a metric very similar to what Paul puts forward for a discernment between the 'gods' I was deemed and infidel worthy of being looked down upon, or even just ignored, because I happened to believe something that superficially could be made to look intolerant and even hateful when it was actually quite the opposite.
- msg 14y agoResponding only to the theological coda, if you read this wiki page you will become enlightened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism This particular belief system of unconditional love vs condemning judgment and promised reward, in the context of Christianity, was completely anticipated two thousand years ago. And then criticized. Instead of reinventing the wheel in this way, you should consider following the grooves of people who have already carved the path. At least you will understand why they turned the way they did.
- moconnor 14y agoI don't think Paul was postulating the existence of multiple (competing?) gods; Marcionism isn't especially relevant to his discussion.
- msg 14y agoMarcion's program was to excise the judging Yahweh from what we now know as the New Testament, leaving only the loving, forgiving Jesus. It was born out of an apparent desire to edit the religion into something he found palatable. My larger point is that the religion of unconditional love has already been invented, as has Paul's detour. An appreciation for this history would save a student from a lot of intellectual blind alleys. And aptly, it is Marcion's failure to grapple with Christianity's continuity with Judaism, to appreciate the history and deal with its paradoxes, that led him into heresy. His heresy led him all the way to publishing a version of the Bible with the parts he didn't like cut out. Paul's post here felt very similar to me.
- austinlyons 14y agoPaul, thank you for taking the time to write this. I appreciate it.
- no_more_death 14y agoThank you for a thoughtful and probing post. It is bold to write on a spiritual topic to this audience. I don't usually talk at length about spiritual matters, but everyone else here seems to be doing so and so I think it's appropriate. I would like to talk about one idea you brought up: the idea that the Christian Gospel involves some sort of coercion. In particular, the little story you told about God vs. the devil. This is what the gospel says. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16 We're sinking in quicksand. God reached out His hand to save us. But if we refuse, we will die. Does that make God a monster? Indeed, if you refuse God's love, the consequences are not good. If you refuse my offer of a kidney transplant to you, the consequences are not good. Does that mean I'm raping you by offering to save your life? Please do not blame God that there are people in hell. God doesn't use hell as an instrument of coercion. We sink into hell under the weight of our own evil. We put ourselves there. We wouldn't be happy in heaven, if we don't like God's rules here on earth. But God loved us even though we could not repay him in the least. He is rich in mercy. God gave the world an unspeakably wonderful gift that we can never, ever repay. Jesus Christ took my hell upon himself. He took all the punishment I deserved on Himself. How can I repay that? That's the essence of unconditional love. And He offers this gift to you. Christ is my brother, my friend. He died for me. He forgives my sins against Him and helps me every day with my pride and my bent toward sin. Do you realize this is not a game? He has seen what you wrote -- don't you think it hurts Him? I'm genuinely confused why you insert such strong language in a thoughtful post about loving life and valuing the right things. If you disagree with the Gospel, feel free to say so. But why do you want to vilify the God I love, call Him "the devil," call Him a rapist? He is grieved by these remarks. I am grieved as well. I will pray for you. You seem to be lashing out at God with the grief and difficulty you have experienced. That's an awful place to be in. I know from personal experience that my words are not able to help you, but God is able to help you. I hope that some day, you believe in Christ and come to understand that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can go to God the Father except through Him.
- melc 14y agoThank you Paul for sharing! no_more_death i share your beliefs and i think you answer to yourself. Christianity does not encourage coercion at all, after all as you mention only states the consequences of actions that people might take.
- bad_user 14y agoPaul, thanks for sharing. My son was also born prematurely. He's 2 and a half years old now and he's wonderful, but while reading your piece it gave me shivers down my spine, as I know exactly what you and your wife went through. Other people don't realize how awful this was. Personally I wanted to switch places with him, except there was nothing I could do except trusting the doctors and pray for miracles. My son was indeed a true gift and speaking of spirituallity and death, personally I feel like a part of my soul was transposed in him and the odd thing is that I fear death less since he was born.
- gordaco 14y agoIt's really heartwarming to read pieces like this in a place like HN. It remind us that, after all, we're people. We like techhnology, programming and, well, you know, the usual topics around here. But, in the end, like the article said, people matters. So much that everything else is noise. This is a lesson that that you probably won't learn on another person, but on yourself, because it's not tied to reason, but to a different, non-logic, part of the mind. That's why art and poetry repeat themselves over time. Everyone has his/her moments of grief: don't let they come when it's too late. React as soon as you can: there's people around you that may not be there tomorrow, so take your time to enjoy their company and tell them you do so.
- gprasanth 14y agohttp://sathyasaibaba.wordpress.com/category/unconditional-love/ http://sathyasaibaba.wordpress.com/category/unconditional-lo... I had to share that.
- ananthrk 14y agoWould we interpret death differently if it happened "naturally" (as in old age)? [NB: This is a genuine thought that came to me after I read this (poignant) essay and I hope I am not being insensitive]
- bambax 14y agoThis is a very nice and heartwarming piece -- especially the part where the OP can't board the helicopter and has to drive hundreds of miles alone, into the night, not knowing what might happen to his wife and their (yet unborn) daughter. Must have been a very long drive. Like many others however I was a little surprised, and, yes, disappointed with the "God" part at the end. Is this what it was all about? What does "God" has to do with any of this? Can't one love their children, their partners, their siblings, with all their hearts, and leave it at that...? What is "the personification of all that is Good"? What is Good? (Good for you may be bad for someone else; absolute good is hard; historically, Gods have not been known to be good: they were jealous, mean creatures). And even admitting there would be some "absolute good", why would it need to be "personified"? The finale reads a little like this: Gods other people believe in are "false Gods", and guess what? the God I believe in / custom built to my specs is the One True God. This, for me, I'm sorry to say, ruined a perfect moment.
- stephengillie 14y agoI also felt this was a great story ruined at the end. The author is talking about the terrorific (terror-filled) ride of his daughter's birth and young life, then flops over to a children's tale about one all-powerful being wanting more followers than a different all-powerful being. What do these all-powerful beings have to do with his daughter and her struggle to live? What does it have to do with all of the doctors and nurses who cared for his daughter? Why thank this all-powerful being who did nothing for your child, but take for granted all of the people who worked to help her?
- discreteevent 14y agoAll I can say is that if you have a sick child who is suffering and in danger it is quite different to any kind of trouble you have experienced before. It is very hard to take this on your own shoulders. It helps a lot to have a feeling that there is something bigger out there. You don't have to call it God. But logic etc is of no help in this kind of situation as it is by definition out of your control. This is where all your established positions mean nothing. So whether it is true or not that there is something else I imagine that the feeling that there is is what helps many people keep it together when they would crumble if they felt there were only people and logic in the universe, there's nothing out there, we live, we die, we are just machines that are programmed to reproduce etc. Keeping it together at a time like this can be very important so you take whatever help you can get. And if you feel you got it then it would be untrue to yourself not to be grateful later.
- username3 14y agoC.S. Lewis wrote about unconditional love in The Four Loves. “God, who needs nothing, loves into existence wholly superfluous creatures in order that He may love and perfect them. He creates the universe, already foreseeing - or should we say "seeing"? there are no tenses in God - the buzzing cloud of flies about the cross, the flayed back pressed against the uneven stake, the nails driven through the mesial nerves, the repeated incipient suffocation as the body droops, the repeated torture of back and arms as it is time after time, for breath's sake, hitched up. If I may dare the biological image, God is a "host" who deliberately creates His own parasites; causes us to be that we may exploit and "take advantage of" Him. Herein is love. This is the diagram of Love Himself, the inventor of all loves.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/14816053-the-four-loves http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/14816053-the-four-loves
- a5seo 14y ago"...born 100 days early." It's interesting, according to Roe vs. Wade, a fetus is not supposed to be viable anytime before 91 days prior to the due date (3rd trimester). As a programmer, nothing drives me more crazy than an arbitrarily chosen (and in this case, clearly incorrect) number, as a basis for critical decisions.
- dhbradshaw 14y agoI loved this post for its simplicity and practicality and also for its willingness to provoke thought. It led me to begin thinking about a simple question: can one have unconditional love and still believe that an act is wrong or that the beloved can or should improve? Since the concept of unconditional love is difficult (and important) to define, I will try to use the term as it was used in Paul's essay. In this essay, Paul first learned about unconditional love when contemplating his small, helpless child. She was doing nothing to earn love, but he loved her. Now things are getting more difficult. What aspect of his daughter did he love? Certainly it wasn't her afflictions. That is, he never would have even considered that because he loved her in her helpless state she should be kept in that helpless state. Because he loved her, he wanted to do everything that he could to help her heal, grow, and thrive. Paul's unconditional love was for a being that could grow and change and overcome sickness. And because he loved that being he wanted to help her grow and change and live. Paul had a model of what was good (health) and he wanted with all his heart to see his daughter move toward what was good. That is what love is. We can be sick mentally or spiritually. We can also grow mentally and spiritually. When someone has unconditional love for us they will want to see us heal and grow and thrive not only physically but also spiritually and mentally. That's what love is. If that's what love is, then if remove from the lover any sense of what is sick or healthy, good or bad, then you cripple the lover and make them incapable of seeking the interests of the beloved. You cripple their ability to love. So the answer to my question seems to be that not only is it possible to have unconditional love and still have a moral map that distinguishes between spiritual health and sickness, but that having such a map is the only way to love effectively.
- b1daly 14y agoWhen I was younger I did not have the experience of being offended by things said by others (much). Reading the essay brought up some emotions in me that I now identify as being "offended." The story mixes some poignant sharing of difficult life experience with what to me sounds like gibberish. Somehow the shape of the rhetoric is closed off. The jump from the personal/subjective experience to asserted universal truths feels manipulative manipulative to me. Blech