10 ms·

Apple's App Tracking Transparency treated its own apps better than rivals

262 points by nyku 2mo ago

flipnotyk 2mo ago
Fork found in kitchen.
- jareklupinski 2mo ago
  spoon still missing
rad-b 2mo ago
I see the regulators only regulated that first-party and third-party apps be treated equally, and didn’t specify how. It’s a bummer (albeit an expected one) to see Apple reducing the burden for third-party publishers to collect personal data, rather than increasing the burden for themselves to collect it, thus overall raising the floor of user privacy. This is to say, when a regulator requests “everyone be treated equally to ensure competition” maybe they should also take into account how users are impacted and instead request something more nuanced like: if there are unequal standards, they must be equalized in a way that maximizes user benefit.
- Zagitta 2mo ago
  Regulations for user privacy shouldn't be conflated with regulations for market competition. I also delight in this highlighting Apple's hypocrisy
  - drakythe 2mo ago
    Apple's hypocrisy is a longstanding issue with regard to their apps vs 3rd party apps. As I recall when the Green Bubbles first happened in messages someone pointed out that Apples own design guidelines specified a minimum contrast in colors or they would reject apps, and the green bubbles with white text did not meet that threshold at the time, and it stayed that way for quite a while. And for all I know the light themed version of the app still does (I have mine on permanent dark theme). https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343 https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-acce...
  - greggman65 2mo ago
    In Japan (not sure in other countries), I went to the Apple Store. They said to complete the purchase, use the Apple Store app and scan this QR code on their device. I did and it immediately wanted me to share a ton of info with the main highlighed button "Share Now" and in small lettering below that "customize and share", where in you can see all the stuff they were going to take. Apple, That's Privacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9vJq4gQOw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9vJq4gQOw
- kmeisthax 2mo ago
  There's two problems here: 1. The competition law people are not the data protection people. From the perspective of competition law, they only care that the playing field is leveled, they don't care if you equalize down or up. 2. The EU has fumbled the ball on GDPR by not enforcing it on the tech giants that it was intended to regulate[0], to the point where a tech company enforcing the intent of the law and not the letter of the law feels like singling out competitors. [0] In particular, the Republic of Ireland is a rotten borough for Facebook, who has all their EU offices there.
iamcalledrob 2mo ago
A good step. Apple's own apps are still blessed with permissions that other apps have to ask for. This needs to be addressed too.
- giancarlostoro 2mo ago
  For me it depends on which app and which permissions, like "Photos" obviously needs to be able to see my photos... Camera needs my camera, but for location it should ask me before it turns it on. I don't even care if they make the dialogue look a little different since they're system apps you need to use the features of your phone, but the "extras" they support should default to "Ask First" in an ideal world that is.
  - bzzzt 2mo ago
    > like "Photos" obviously needs to be able to see my photos... Maybe you'd like to use a competitor to the Photos app and don't want to use the one Apple provides?
    - giancarlostoro 2mo ago
      That should be supported, but if its the only "Photo Gallery" app installed, I think its okay. Curious, do you use another one that's better? I have looked (though not very invested in looking) and didn't really see anything that caught my eye.
      - greggman65 2mo ago
        I can certainly imagine one that's better. One that catelogs all the images using better AI that apples and lets me do complex searches "Dog at beach", "Joey in red shirt with Jane"
        labcomputer 2mo ago
        FWIW, searching "dog at beach" in the photos app on my iPhone returns a set of photos of my dog at a sandy beach.
whatever1 2mo ago
Apple never hid the fact that their apps work better on their devices. They have access to APIs that third parties do not have. I don’t think it’s a bad thing necessarily.
- user43928 2mo ago
  I think it's bad. You want to handle device rotation smoothly in your in-app browser? Tough luck, WebKit's _beginAnimatedResizeWithUpdates is private, and only Apple gets to use it in Safari. Good luck with the animation and scroll position handling. You better hope WkWebView's default behavior works for you, because you don't get to customize it and fix edge cases or the tab previews, like Apple did for their browser.
- groundzeros2015 2mo ago
  Isn’t the EU regulation specifically about this?
- intrasight 2mo ago
  I do think it's a bad thing and I believe the EU regulators agree. There are whole classes of applications that are not possible unless low level device data is exposed via APIs. And since Apple doesn't provide the apps, the apps won't exist until Apple creates them.
  - whatever1 2mo ago
    Maybe some sort of 1 year lead time would be a reasonable trade off ? Like let Apple first do the move, flesh out the issues and overall viability and then require them to open the api ?
    - intrasight 2mo ago
      I don't understand "first do the move"
      - whatever1 2mo ago
fsflover 2mo ago
Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself (theregister.com) 161 points by Logans_Run on Feb 14, 2025 | 69 comments
wxw 2mo ago
> With its operating systems and its App Store, Apple controls a key infrastructure for the distribution of apps on its devices. In addition, Apple offers its own apps and advertising space. This dual role makes Apple subject to specific competition law requirements. > Under the commitments that have now been declared binding, Apple will align the consent prompts for its own offerings and for third-party apps much more closely.
phoghed 2mo ago
Imagining my grandpa calling me because his camera doesn't work because he denied the camera permission on his camera app. But then he can't because he denied all the permissions his phone app needs.
- lozenge 2mo ago
  This is about tracking not actual functionality .
  - phoghed 2mo ago
    Yeah I messed up, was supposed to reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49331222#49331921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49331222#49331921 > ... Apple's own apps are still blessed with permissions that other apps have to ask for. This needs to be addressed too.
- well_ackshually 2mo ago
  Things that don't happen and that you make up for to win a hypothetical argument: this one.
  - phoghed 2mo ago
    What argument? Are you preemptively mad about something that's not happening? I just had a funny thought brother, I'd rather not be involved in your OS platform supremacy battle.
    - Danox 2mo ago
      He who creates the operating system creates the terms for that system I don’t expect to use an OpenAI program and then tell them what to do at every turn in comparison to Anthropic or any of the other AI model makers. (whoops I forgot the lawyers work for other business interests they don’t want to do anything about rent letting not really their solution always framed in a way where they claim to be looking out for the public interest). when in reality, they are just looking out for other business interest. In the case of operating systems, I simply select a different operating system, and the same principle applies to AI models. It is amusing that Microsoft and Linux are available to consumers, providing them with a choice. However, simply because the decisions made by one or the other are superior/better does not imply that everyone should be reduced to a similar low level. Apple is not even close to being the dominant operating system or hardware platform, globally, yet you still expect them to be mediocre, akin to most of their competition.
jshier 2mo ago
Title doesn't match the article, which is currently "Apple changes its rules for personalised advertising in apps". Apple gave itself better dialogs for the permission prompts, which they will now equalize (perhaps just in the EU?) with the prompts they use for their own apps. My understanding of ATTF is that first-party tracking needed no disclosure other than the information declared in the app's App Store privacy section about the information gathered. If you made a suite of 20 apps, you could track usage across all of them without issue, as long as you didn't also share that info with a third party.
- Despegar 2mo ago
  Apple didn't give itself better dialogs. It never did third-party tracking across across apps or websites so the ATT prompt would never apply to their apps. It also voluntarily showed a dialog explicitly asking you to opt into personalized advertising. Facebook doesn't show anything similar when you use Instagram or the Facebook app, because that would be undoubtedly bad for business. The German regulator settled because the facts are simply on Apple's side. Apple settled because at the end of the day it's no skin off their back if the EU now wants to weaken privacy protections to benefit ad-tech. EDIT: You can downvote me all you like, but it's right there on page 1 of the FAQ from the regulator. https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/PressReleases/Apple_ATTF_FAQ.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6 https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/Pr...
  - schubidubiduba 2mo ago
    Instagram does, in fact, have such a dialog in the EU. Because they are legally required to, like everybody else.
    - Despegar 2mo ago
      I don't live in the EU. My comment is based on what they do in the rest of the world.
      - 2mo ago
classified 2mo ago
I'm already curious what kind of malicious compliance Apple will invent this time. When it comes to that, their creativity knows no bounds.
sunaookami 2mo ago
Smells like another successful lobby attempt by VG Wort. Disgusting.
dpoloncsak 2mo ago
A monthly headline could honestly just read "Apple treated its own better than rivals" and it would always be relevant
bleakcrate 2mo ago
I used to work on an app with one of the largest repos of health data in the App Store. Their team specifically leaned on us to have more favorable text when the data sharing requests came through. Felt very inappropriate given we were often at Apple’s mercy. Seems like a consistent cultural issue.
jonplackett 2mo ago
They also do other things you aren’t allowed to do as a developer - eg. When they do a ‘free trial’ of Apple TV, if you cancel it cancels immediately. All proper subscriptions you retain the use of until the renewal date.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
newscracker 2mo ago
Meta would have a field day with this change, since it was the company that was most upset and angry when ATT was introduced. Considering that ATT was about sharing an identifier to “track across other companies' apps and websites” (text definition of the ATT setting), I don’t believe this ruling is a good move for anyone on informed consent or privacy. In the name of improving competition, sometimes regulators may end up making things worse for users.
- eddieroger 2mo ago
  Meta, the same company that used to play silent audio so it wouldn't be killed in the background? I'm not super worried about them being upset about privacy laws changing.
  - tentacleuno 2mo ago
    Could you provide a reference about them playing silent audio? I was curious and searched for it but wasn't able to find anything.
    - Cider9986 2mo ago
      This? https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-bug-that-caused-silent-audio-to-vampire-your-iphone-battery/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-b...
      - tentacleuno 1mo ago
        Thank you!
- alex1138 2mo ago
  There are arguments about how Apple has too much power and we need better app stores and anecdotes about I-built-an-app-it-was-a-nightmare ...but Meta is exactly the reason why IMO it's needed. Because of people like Zuckerberg who treat the internet and people's phones like his personal plaything. No granularity. Contacts uploaded whenever anyone does the slightest thing
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
pranav_tech26 2mo ago
[flagged]
imoverclocked 2mo ago
> In addition, app publishers and content providers, such as media publishers, will be given more scope to explain to users what significance personalised advertising has for their offering and their business model. Great, sounds like a new channel for marketing where I really just want to opt-out. Also, does this added scope include the mechanism to maliciously comply like so many websites do with cookies? (eg: You want our cookies? Here is a list of things you can de-select... with toggles that aren't clearly on or off)
raincole 2mo ago
Actual title: Apple changes its rules for personalised advertising in apps
mihelleevas8 2mo ago
Michelle Evans
bsmith736464 2mo ago
[flagged]

262 points by nyku 2mo ago

flipnotyk 2mo ago

Fork found in kitchen.

jareklupinski 2mo ago
spoon still missing

rad-b 2mo ago

I see the regulators only regulated that first-party and third-party apps be treated equally, and didn’t specify how. It’s a bummer (albeit an expected one) to see Apple reducing the burden for third-party publishers to collect personal data, rather than increasing the burden for themselves to collect it, thus overall raising the floor of user privacy. This is to say, when a regulator requests “everyone be treated equally to ensure competition” maybe they should also take into account how users are impacted and instead request something more nuanced like: if there are unequal standards, they must be equalized in a way that maximizes user benefit.

Zagitta 2mo ago
Regulations for user privacy shouldn't be conflated with regulations for market competition. I also delight in this highlighting Apple's hypocrisy
- drakythe 2mo ago
  Apple's hypocrisy is a longstanding issue with regard to their apps vs 3rd party apps. As I recall when the Green Bubbles first happened in messages someone pointed out that Apples own design guidelines specified a minimum contrast in colors or they would reject apps, and the green bubbles with white text did not meet that threshold at the time, and it stayed that way for quite a while. And for all I know the light themed version of the app still does (I have mine on permanent dark theme). https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343 https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-acce...
- greggman65 2mo ago
  In Japan (not sure in other countries), I went to the Apple Store. They said to complete the purchase, use the Apple Store app and scan this QR code on their device. I did and it immediately wanted me to share a ton of info with the main highlighed button "Share Now" and in small lettering below that "customize and share", where in you can see all the stuff they were going to take. Apple, That's Privacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9vJq4gQOw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9vJq4gQOw
kmeisthax 2mo ago
There's two problems here: 1. The competition law people are not the data protection people. From the perspective of competition law, they only care that the playing field is leveled, they don't care if you equalize down or up. 2. The EU has fumbled the ball on GDPR by not enforcing it on the tech giants that it was intended to regulate[0], to the point where a tech company enforcing the intent of the law and not the letter of the law feels like singling out competitors. [0] In particular, the Republic of Ireland is a rotten borough for Facebook, who has all their EU offices there.

iamcalledrob 2mo ago

A good step. Apple's own apps are still blessed with permissions that other apps have to ask for. This needs to be addressed too.

giancarlostoro 2mo ago
For me it depends on which app and which permissions, like "Photos" obviously needs to be able to see my photos... Camera needs my camera, but for location it should ask me before it turns it on. I don't even care if they make the dialogue look a little different since they're system apps you need to use the features of your phone, but the "extras" they support should default to "Ask First" in an ideal world that is.
- bzzzt 2mo ago
  > like "Photos" obviously needs to be able to see my photos... Maybe you'd like to use a competitor to the Photos app and don't want to use the one Apple provides?
  - giancarlostoro 2mo ago
    That should be supported, but if its the only "Photo Gallery" app installed, I think its okay. Curious, do you use another one that's better? I have looked (though not very invested in looking) and didn't really see anything that caught my eye.
    - greggman65 2mo ago
      I can certainly imagine one that's better. One that catelogs all the images using better AI that apples and lets me do complex searches "Dog at beach", "Joey in red shirt with Jane"
      - labcomputer 2mo ago
        FWIW, searching "dog at beach" in the photos app on my iPhone returns a set of photos of my dog at a sandy beach.

whatever1 2mo ago

Apple never hid the fact that their apps work better on their devices. They have access to APIs that third parties do not have. I don’t think it’s a bad thing necessarily.

user43928 2mo ago
I think it's bad. You want to handle device rotation smoothly in your in-app browser? Tough luck, WebKit's _beginAnimatedResizeWithUpdates is private, and only Apple gets to use it in Safari. Good luck with the animation and scroll position handling. You better hope WkWebView's default behavior works for you, because you don't get to customize it and fix edge cases or the tab previews, like Apple did for their browser.
groundzeros2015 2mo ago
Isn’t the EU regulation specifically about this?
intrasight 2mo ago
I do think it's a bad thing and I believe the EU regulators agree. There are whole classes of applications that are not possible unless low level device data is exposed via APIs. And since Apple doesn't provide the apps, the apps won't exist until Apple creates them.
- whatever1 2mo ago
  Maybe some sort of 1 year lead time would be a reasonable trade off ? Like let Apple first do the move, flesh out the issues and overall viability and then require them to open the api ?
  - intrasight 2mo ago
    I don't understand "first do the move"
    - whatever1 2mo ago

fsflover 2mo ago

Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself (theregister.com) 161 points by Logans_Run on Feb 14, 2025 | 69 comments

wxw 2mo ago

> With its operating systems and its App Store, Apple controls a key infrastructure for the distribution of apps on its devices. In addition, Apple offers its own apps and advertising space. This dual role makes Apple subject to specific competition law requirements. > Under the commitments that have now been declared binding, Apple will align the consent prompts for its own offerings and for third-party apps much more closely.

phoghed 2mo ago

Imagining my grandpa calling me because his camera doesn't work because he denied the camera permission on his camera app. But then he can't because he denied all the permissions his phone app needs.

lozenge 2mo ago
This is about tracking not actual functionality .
- phoghed 2mo ago
  Yeah I messed up, was supposed to reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49331222#49331921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49331222#49331921 > ... Apple's own apps are still blessed with permissions that other apps have to ask for. This needs to be addressed too.
well_ackshually 2mo ago
Things that don't happen and that you make up for to win a hypothetical argument: this one.
- phoghed 2mo ago
  What argument? Are you preemptively mad about something that's not happening? I just had a funny thought brother, I'd rather not be involved in your OS platform supremacy battle.
  - Danox 2mo ago
    He who creates the operating system creates the terms for that system I don’t expect to use an OpenAI program and then tell them what to do at every turn in comparison to Anthropic or any of the other AI model makers. (whoops I forgot the lawyers work for other business interests they don’t want to do anything about rent letting not really their solution always framed in a way where they claim to be looking out for the public interest). when in reality, they are just looking out for other business interest. In the case of operating systems, I simply select a different operating system, and the same principle applies to AI models. It is amusing that Microsoft and Linux are available to consumers, providing them with a choice. However, simply because the decisions made by one or the other are superior/better does not imply that everyone should be reduced to a similar low level. Apple is not even close to being the dominant operating system or hardware platform, globally, yet you still expect them to be mediocre, akin to most of their competition.

jshier 2mo ago

Title doesn't match the article, which is currently "Apple changes its rules for personalised advertising in apps". Apple gave itself better dialogs for the permission prompts, which they will now equalize (perhaps just in the EU?) with the prompts they use for their own apps. My understanding of ATTF is that first-party tracking needed no disclosure other than the information declared in the app's App Store privacy section about the information gathered. If you made a suite of 20 apps, you could track usage across all of them without issue, as long as you didn't also share that info with a third party.

Despegar 2mo ago
Apple didn't give itself better dialogs. It never did third-party tracking across across apps or websites so the ATT prompt would never apply to their apps. It also voluntarily showed a dialog explicitly asking you to opt into personalized advertising. Facebook doesn't show anything similar when you use Instagram or the Facebook app, because that would be undoubtedly bad for business. The German regulator settled because the facts are simply on Apple's side. Apple settled because at the end of the day it's no skin off their back if the EU now wants to weaken privacy protections to benefit ad-tech. EDIT: You can downvote me all you like, but it's right there on page 1 of the FAQ from the regulator. https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/PressReleases/Apple_ATTF_FAQ.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6 https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/Pr...
- schubidubiduba 2mo ago
  Instagram does, in fact, have such a dialog in the EU. Because they are legally required to, like everybody else.
  - Despegar 2mo ago
    I don't live in the EU. My comment is based on what they do in the rest of the world.
    - 2mo ago

classified 2mo ago

I'm already curious what kind of malicious compliance Apple will invent this time. When it comes to that, their creativity knows no bounds.

sunaookami 2mo ago

Smells like another successful lobby attempt by VG Wort. Disgusting.

dpoloncsak 2mo ago

A monthly headline could honestly just read "Apple treated its own better than rivals" and it would always be relevant

bleakcrate 2mo ago

I used to work on an app with one of the largest repos of health data in the App Store. Their team specifically leaned on us to have more favorable text when the data sharing requests came through. Felt very inappropriate given we were often at Apple’s mercy. Seems like a consistent cultural issue.

jonplackett 2mo ago

They also do other things you aren’t allowed to do as a developer - eg. When they do a ‘free trial’ of Apple TV, if you cancel it cancels immediately. All proper subscriptions you retain the use of until the renewal date.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

newscracker 2mo ago

Meta would have a field day with this change, since it was the company that was most upset and angry when ATT was introduced. Considering that ATT was about sharing an identifier to “track across other companies' apps and websites” (text definition of the ATT setting), I don’t believe this ruling is a good move for anyone on informed consent or privacy. In the name of improving competition, sometimes regulators may end up making things worse for users.

eddieroger 2mo ago
Meta, the same company that used to play silent audio so it wouldn't be killed in the background? I'm not super worried about them being upset about privacy laws changing.
- tentacleuno 2mo ago
  Could you provide a reference about them playing silent audio? I was curious and searched for it but wasn't able to find anything.
  - Cider9986 2mo ago
    This? https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-bug-that-caused-silent-audio-to-vampire-your-iphone-battery/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-b...
    - tentacleuno 1mo ago
      Thank you!
alex1138 2mo ago
There are arguments about how Apple has too much power and we need better app stores and anecdotes about I-built-an-app-it-was-a-nightmare ...but Meta is exactly the reason why IMO it's needed. Because of people like Zuckerberg who treat the internet and people's phones like his personal plaything. No granularity. Contacts uploaded whenever anyone does the slightest thing

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

pranav_tech26 2mo ago

[flagged]

imoverclocked 2mo ago

> In addition, app publishers and content providers, such as media publishers, will be given more scope to explain to users what significance personalised advertising has for their offering and their business model. Great, sounds like a new channel for marketing where I really just want to opt-out. Also, does this added scope include the mechanism to maliciously comply like so many websites do with cookies? (eg: You want our cookies? Here is a list of things you can de-select... with toggles that aren't clearly on or off)

raincole 2mo ago

Actual title: Apple changes its rules for personalised advertising in apps

mihelleevas8 2mo ago

Michelle Evans

bsmith736464 2mo ago

[flagged]