3 ms·

Encryption or not, if it's on somebody else's server, it isn't yours. I don't believe Google has my best interest.

by FloatArtifact 2mo ago

u1hcw9nx 2mo ago
With Fully Homomorphic Encryption it's nobody elses. The basic idea of of the project is to remove the need for trust.
- unsungNovelty 2mo ago
  It's google. They are good at engineering. Not at creating trust. After the bizillionth time they have broken trust, there is no need for benefit of the doubt.
  - tonyhart7 2mo ago
    so what's the option ??? Meta ?? xAi ?? or OpenAI ???
    - unsungNovelty 2mo ago
      Why should there by any reason to look at the above ones? We are talking about this B2C company which effects a lot of our lives. The discussion isn't about that or this. The discussion is about JUST this specific company.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - throwaway27448 2mo ago
    There's more to life than branding.
  - Plont 2mo ago
    Yeah. Google is an ad business. Their entire motive for getting invested in AI is ad revenue. We're supposed to believe they just... won't turn on the money fountain? After going into the red for their data center investments? Hell nah. I'd expect this to be something like the Google Ad ID: technically separated from what Google considers personal information, but trivially easy to tie back to an individual person and to other information about that person. They're continually breaking trust by illegally scraping up the internet to feed to their plagiarism machine, which they are now asking us to trust with more data. It's not a compelling arguement.
    - ameliaquining 2mo ago
      This blog post is about an open source project that you can look at for yourself and decide whether it's suitable for your use case.
      - unsungNovelty 2mo ago
        Sure. But it will be trickled down into project by google which will effect us all and we won't have a say.
- thih9 2mo ago
  To what end?
  - u1hcw9nx 2mo ago
    Biometric authentication, credential checking, blind auctions, threat matching (search zero-day signatures without revealing the vectors), private dna matching or running queries of medical symptoms and health records against databases. I think the most immediately useful is checking if a username/password hash appears in a leaked database without revealing which account or password hash is being checked.
    - thih9 2mo ago
      I do like that list and thank you for the explanation. I still worry about how an ad company is going to approach this. Each of these advancements could be used to put ads in more places.
- FloatArtifact 2mo ago
  It was not my intent to undercut cryptography as a field or in its use. Consider client side scanning for photos before they're encrypted and uploaded to the cloud. I see no difference AI's future. Content, maybe encrypted, but a form of client-side scanning, or the model itself, will report users.
krunck 2mo ago
It's FHE for "cryptographically-secure private AI inference" not for every other service where they snoop into your behavioral information.
kccqzy 2mo ago
This kind of attitude is really disrespectful of decades of progress in cryptography. Without even considering homomorphic encryption, classic encryption is specifically designed to make intermediate nodes such as ISP dumb pipes that do not know the contents of communication. The ISP can store your communications on their server however they want. If you don’t agree with this model, I’m afraid modern cryptography doesn’t have anything to offer.
- jewel 2mo ago
  Even if your files are properly encrypted, if you keep them on, say, Google Drive, then you might lose access to them if your account gets inadvertently blocked. I think GP is trying to say something along those lines. Not that encryption isn't trustworthy, but that even with homomorphic encryption you still give up autonomy.
  - kccqzy 2mo ago
    That’s not a problem solvable by cryptography. Your ISP can’t read your traffic, but can cut off your traffic. You can use end-to-end encryption to encrypt your files to upload to Google Drive, but Google can choose to delete your files.
yjftsjthsd-h 2mo ago
It can give you confidentiality without availability. Not sure about integrity? Anyways, still useful.
bitpush 2mo ago
Unless all of your money is under your mattress, you're already making such decisions with a far more valuable asset.
furkanturan 2mo ago
FHE is not always for using somebody else's server; but for sure you do not share keys with that somebody else. Besides, FHE is not always about using somebody else's server. At Belfort, in addition to FHE acceleration, we also explore such uses cases; https://belfortlabs.com/blog/encrypted-fraud-detection-with-swift https://belfortlabs.com/blog/encrypted-fraud-detection-with-... https://belfortlabs.com/blog/belfort-partners-with-lg-on-encrypted-advertising-recommendations https://belfortlabs.com/blog/belfort-partners-with-lg-on-enc...

Encryption or not, if it's on somebody else's server, it isn't yours. I don't believe Google has my best interest.

u1hcw9nx 2mo ago

With Fully Homomorphic Encryption it's nobody elses. The basic idea of of the project is to remove the need for trust.

unsungNovelty 2mo ago
It's google. They are good at engineering. Not at creating trust. After the bizillionth time they have broken trust, there is no need for benefit of the doubt.
- tonyhart7 2mo ago
  so what's the option ??? Meta ?? xAi ?? or OpenAI ???
  - unsungNovelty 2mo ago
    Why should there by any reason to look at the above ones? We are talking about this B2C company which effects a lot of our lives. The discussion isn't about that or this. The discussion is about JUST this specific company.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway27448 2mo ago
  There's more to life than branding.
- Plont 2mo ago
  Yeah. Google is an ad business. Their entire motive for getting invested in AI is ad revenue. We're supposed to believe they just... won't turn on the money fountain? After going into the red for their data center investments? Hell nah. I'd expect this to be something like the Google Ad ID: technically separated from what Google considers personal information, but trivially easy to tie back to an individual person and to other information about that person. They're continually breaking trust by illegally scraping up the internet to feed to their plagiarism machine, which they are now asking us to trust with more data. It's not a compelling arguement.
  - ameliaquining 2mo ago
    This blog post is about an open source project that you can look at for yourself and decide whether it's suitable for your use case.
    - unsungNovelty 2mo ago
      Sure. But it will be trickled down into project by google which will effect us all and we won't have a say.
thih9 2mo ago
To what end?
- u1hcw9nx 2mo ago
  Biometric authentication, credential checking, blind auctions, threat matching (search zero-day signatures without revealing the vectors), private dna matching or running queries of medical symptoms and health records against databases. I think the most immediately useful is checking if a username/password hash appears in a leaked database without revealing which account or password hash is being checked.
  - thih9 2mo ago
    I do like that list and thank you for the explanation. I still worry about how an ad company is going to approach this. Each of these advancements could be used to put ads in more places.
FloatArtifact 2mo ago
It was not my intent to undercut cryptography as a field or in its use. Consider client side scanning for photos before they're encrypted and uploaded to the cloud. I see no difference AI's future. Content, maybe encrypted, but a form of client-side scanning, or the model itself, will report users.

krunck 2mo ago

It's FHE for "cryptographically-secure private AI inference" not for every other service where they snoop into your behavioral information.

kccqzy 2mo ago

This kind of attitude is really disrespectful of decades of progress in cryptography. Without even considering homomorphic encryption, classic encryption is specifically designed to make intermediate nodes such as ISP dumb pipes that do not know the contents of communication. The ISP can store your communications on their server however they want. If you don’t agree with this model, I’m afraid modern cryptography doesn’t have anything to offer.

jewel 2mo ago
Even if your files are properly encrypted, if you keep them on, say, Google Drive, then you might lose access to them if your account gets inadvertently blocked. I think GP is trying to say something along those lines. Not that encryption isn't trustworthy, but that even with homomorphic encryption you still give up autonomy.
- kccqzy 2mo ago
  That’s not a problem solvable by cryptography. Your ISP can’t read your traffic, but can cut off your traffic. You can use end-to-end encryption to encrypt your files to upload to Google Drive, but Google can choose to delete your files.

yjftsjthsd-h 2mo ago

It can give you confidentiality without availability. Not sure about integrity? Anyways, still useful.

bitpush 2mo ago

Unless all of your money is under your mattress, you're already making such decisions with a far more valuable asset.

furkanturan 2mo ago

FHE is not always for using somebody else's server; but for sure you do not share keys with that somebody else. Besides, FHE is not always about using somebody else's server. At Belfort, in addition to FHE acceleration, we also explore such uses cases; https://belfortlabs.com/blog/encrypted-fraud-detection-with-swift https://belfortlabs.com/blog/encrypted-fraud-detection-with-... https://belfortlabs.com/blog/belfort-partners-with-lg-on-encrypted-advertising-recommendations https://belfortlabs.com/blog/belfort-partners-with-lg-on-enc...