6 ms·

Or possibly ever again. Eras like this one can be what kills an empire/great power. I think one of the greater risks to a power like the U.S. is getting old en

Or possibly ever again. Eras like this one can be what kills an empire/great power. I think one of the greater risks to a power like the U.S. is getting old enough where it's felt like things always were, and therefore always will be. When there is no-longer a grandparent at the dinner table who can even tell you when his grandparent at the dinner table spoke about the before times.

rubyfan 2mo ago
Right, the fact that the current administration had a 4 year hiatus only extended this period. Think about all the young people that grew up with this as normal.
- reactordev 2mo ago
  Reinforced by the Parnas', Lambert's, Kirk's and Loomer's on TikTok. Ready to vote in the next midterms. Thinking 9/11 was an inside job...
- flossly 2mo ago
  Sorry, as an outsider, I think it has been a clown show for much longer. The whole Hunter corruption scandal in Ukraine + the laptop made it quite clear to me back then. And I can go on.
  - blini-kot 2mo ago
    yep, they have a hard time grasping the fact that its been the same for the past 40-60 years the only exception now is not the corrupt administration, but the one being the most inept and blatant at being corrupt as opposed to its predecessors
    - salemh 2mo ago
      [dead]
    - flossly 2mo ago
      There's a Trump hate raging, but, as you also have seen: it's nothing new. Just the crazy partisanism that's going on in the states blinds people to the fact that they are not ruled by one part of the other, but that the parties are the smoke and mirrors of the non-democratic, unelected, unaccountable, unseen actual govt.
      - blini-kot 2mo ago
        exactly, yep
  - saulapremium 2mo ago
    The Hunter corruption scandal is to the current administration as a drop of water is to a swimming pool. But I have no doubt that you can go on.
  - no-name-here 2mo ago
    What do you believe happened re: Ukraine? What was the absolute worst thing from the laptop? Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden%E2%80%93Ukraine_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden%E2%80%93Ukraine_conspira... Hunter Biden laptop controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers... 2019 Trump–Ukraine scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_sca...
  - gopher_space 2mo ago
    Quite clear that people don't understand the basics of forensics. Watching people ruin their professional reputation over something they desperately want to believe in was quite the education.
- ben_w 2mo ago
  Grandparents telling about their grandparents is a very different timescale than two presidential terms with a gap of just one between them. The "what changed in the 1970s?" meme graphs are the kinds of timescale for forgetting what is and isn't "normal" for your grandparents, and the Great Depression for your grandparents' grandparents. Eternal growth? Nah. Even the worst of times will be shortly followed by a recovery, soon enough you survive on savings? Pft. The President surely wouldn't consider to order the removal of protesting veterans, with the Army Chief of Staff implementing this order with a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks, burning the belongings that the veterans had left behind after being cleared from where they had been protesting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Conscription? Concentration camps? These are also in the "grandparents' grandparents" timescale in the USA. Go back only a one more generation and you get lynching *postcards*.
- browningstreet 2mo ago
  I remember tales of how backwards and corrupt the Berlusconi government in Italy was. There was a sense that “over there” it was another world, a bad and sad and incorrigible one. Most Americans wouldn’t remember that, and yet we pulled, and continue to pull, an epic Hold My Beer in comparison. What would it take to get a Million Man March again? One that occupied the lawn?
mrits 2mo ago
[flagged]
- geoduck14 2mo ago
  Please elaborate?
  - alephnan 2mo ago
    People are still buying German cars and Hugo Boss clothing aren’t they?
    - ceejayoz 2mo ago
      Germany made it illegal to display Nazi symbols and espouse their beliefs. (And hung a few.) A bit of a lesson learned, in part, from not spanking the Confederacy's leadership enough.
  - datsci_est_2015 2mo ago
    I had to think carefully, but I think they’re implying that the worst thing the US has done is invent Twitter, and comparing it to the worst thing that Europe has done (implying that that’s the holocaust), and that Europeans specifically(?) are being hyperbolic about the state of the US given the contrast between the two?
jebarker 2mo ago
> Eras like this one can be what kills an empire/great power. Is there actually any good analogue for this era that caused a previous empire or great power to collapse?
- ceejayoz 2mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empi... > The Roman Empire lost the strengths that had allowed it to exercise effective control over its Western provinces; modern historians posit factors including the effectiveness and numbers of the army (check), the health and numbers of the Roman population (check), the strength of the economy (check), the competence of the emperors (check), the internal struggles for power (check), the religious changes of the period (check), and the efficiency of the civil administration (check). Increasing pressure from invading peoples outside Roman culture (check) also contributed greatly to the collapse. Climatic changes (check) and both endemic and epidemic diseases (check) drove many of these immediate factors.
  - A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
    You could look even earlier. There are a lot of similarities between Trump's style and Emperor Commodus's. And to paraphrase Cassius Dio, Commodus took an empire of gold and transformed it into one of iron and rust. Every time I hear people praise the stoic Emperor Marcus Aurelius I am reminded of the fact that he failed in his most important duty: To plan well for his succession.
  - leereeves 2mo ago
    The two worst Roman emperors ruled hundreds of years before the fall: Caligula from 37 to 41 CE, Nero from 54 to 68 CE. Not many people could name, or recognize the name of, any emperor from the last hundred years of the Western Roman Empire. So I don't think Rome is a good analogue for the suggestion that the Trump era is going to kill the USA.
    - ceejayoz 2mo ago
thm 2mo ago
Great podcast on this: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XqYCQT4PgD3axPy0w5Wcd https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XqYCQT4PgD3axPy0w5Wcd He calls this category certainty.

rubyfan 2mo ago

Right, the fact that the current administration had a 4 year hiatus only extended this period. Think about all the young people that grew up with this as normal.

reactordev 2mo ago
Reinforced by the Parnas', Lambert's, Kirk's and Loomer's on TikTok. Ready to vote in the next midterms. Thinking 9/11 was an inside job...
flossly 2mo ago
Sorry, as an outsider, I think it has been a clown show for much longer. The whole Hunter corruption scandal in Ukraine + the laptop made it quite clear to me back then. And I can go on.
- blini-kot 2mo ago
  yep, they have a hard time grasping the fact that its been the same for the past 40-60 years the only exception now is not the corrupt administration, but the one being the most inept and blatant at being corrupt as opposed to its predecessors
  - salemh 2mo ago
    [dead]
  - flossly 2mo ago
    There's a Trump hate raging, but, as you also have seen: it's nothing new. Just the crazy partisanism that's going on in the states blinds people to the fact that they are not ruled by one part of the other, but that the parties are the smoke and mirrors of the non-democratic, unelected, unaccountable, unseen actual govt.
    - blini-kot 2mo ago
      exactly, yep
- saulapremium 2mo ago
  The Hunter corruption scandal is to the current administration as a drop of water is to a swimming pool. But I have no doubt that you can go on.
- no-name-here 2mo ago
  What do you believe happened re: Ukraine? What was the absolute worst thing from the laptop? Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden%E2%80%93Ukraine_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden%E2%80%93Ukraine_conspira... Hunter Biden laptop controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers... 2019 Trump–Ukraine scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_sca...
- gopher_space 2mo ago
  Quite clear that people don't understand the basics of forensics. Watching people ruin their professional reputation over something they desperately want to believe in was quite the education.
ben_w 2mo ago
Grandparents telling about their grandparents is a very different timescale than two presidential terms with a gap of just one between them. The "what changed in the 1970s?" meme graphs are the kinds of timescale for forgetting what is and isn't "normal" for your grandparents, and the Great Depression for your grandparents' grandparents. Eternal growth? Nah. Even the worst of times will be shortly followed by a recovery, soon enough you survive on savings? Pft. The President surely wouldn't consider to order the removal of protesting veterans, with the Army Chief of Staff implementing this order with a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks, burning the belongings that the veterans had left behind after being cleared from where they had been protesting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Conscription? Concentration camps? These are also in the "grandparents' grandparents" timescale in the USA. Go back only a one more generation and you get lynching *postcards*.
browningstreet 2mo ago
I remember tales of how backwards and corrupt the Berlusconi government in Italy was. There was a sense that “over there” it was another world, a bad and sad and incorrigible one. Most Americans wouldn’t remember that, and yet we pulled, and continue to pull, an epic Hold My Beer in comparison. What would it take to get a Million Man March again? One that occupied the lawn?

mrits 2mo ago

[flagged]

geoduck14 2mo ago
Please elaborate?
- alephnan 2mo ago
  People are still buying German cars and Hugo Boss clothing aren’t they?
  - ceejayoz 2mo ago
    Germany made it illegal to display Nazi symbols and espouse their beliefs. (And hung a few.) A bit of a lesson learned, in part, from not spanking the Confederacy's leadership enough.
- datsci_est_2015 2mo ago
  I had to think carefully, but I think they’re implying that the worst thing the US has done is invent Twitter, and comparing it to the worst thing that Europe has done (implying that that’s the holocaust), and that Europeans specifically(?) are being hyperbolic about the state of the US given the contrast between the two?

jebarker 2mo ago

> Eras like this one can be what kills an empire/great power. Is there actually any good analogue for this era that caused a previous empire or great power to collapse?

ceejayoz 2mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empi... > The Roman Empire lost the strengths that had allowed it to exercise effective control over its Western provinces; modern historians posit factors including the effectiveness and numbers of the army (check), the health and numbers of the Roman population (check), the strength of the economy (check), the competence of the emperors (check), the internal struggles for power (check), the religious changes of the period (check), and the efficiency of the civil administration (check). Increasing pressure from invading peoples outside Roman culture (check) also contributed greatly to the collapse. Climatic changes (check) and both endemic and epidemic diseases (check) drove many of these immediate factors.
- A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
  You could look even earlier. There are a lot of similarities between Trump's style and Emperor Commodus's. And to paraphrase Cassius Dio, Commodus took an empire of gold and transformed it into one of iron and rust. Every time I hear people praise the stoic Emperor Marcus Aurelius I am reminded of the fact that he failed in his most important duty: To plan well for his succession.
- leereeves 2mo ago
  The two worst Roman emperors ruled hundreds of years before the fall: Caligula from 37 to 41 CE, Nero from 54 to 68 CE. Not many people could name, or recognize the name of, any emperor from the last hundred years of the Western Roman Empire. So I don't think Rome is a good analogue for the suggestion that the Trump era is going to kill the USA.
  - ceejayoz 2mo ago

thm 2mo ago

Great podcast on this: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XqYCQT4PgD3axPy0w5Wcd https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XqYCQT4PgD3axPy0w5Wcd He calls this category certainty.